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I was watching the trailers on my fotr dvd, and in trailer teaser 2, saw a picture of sauron, but it definetly wasn't from the first one, there was blue sky in back, has anyone else seen that and do they think that it is him? does anyone have proof that he's going to be in rotk?

why would he be in the ROTK?
he doesn't even have a form.

It might have been the Witch King actually.

Though I remember reading that PJ was going to try and give Sauron more `presence` of some sort in ROTK.

It IS the Witch King.

if it was sauron, it cud b from some scenes they didnt include in the prologue, and the blue sky cud actually b a blue screen for cgi.

i read somewhere that sauron will be in ROTK and come after aragorn or somethin... don't know if it's true though... hope not

sauron doesn't take physical form yet so it shouldn't be him

there was a huge discussion ab this at rottentomatoes.com and theonering.net and the conclusion i heard was sauron aint gona appear physically, cept fer the giant eye, in rotk.

There's this commandor, called the "Mouth of Sauron" in the books. Could it have been him you saw? I haven't seen the trailer yet.

i have heard an interview where pj said that you couldnt film star wars and never see darth vader which kind of makes you think. also i have heard that sauron will be at the blackgate and he is going to be bearing down on aragorn as the ring is destroyed. who knows, i hope to see him though.

The only thing is his form would have changed from FotR. I tihnk someone in either of the first 2 films said that to completely regain his strength he needs but the one ring. But that also makes you wonder, if Aragorn has The Sword that was Broken, which destroyed his body before, would make mincemeat out of his weakened form. Though PJ may have worked something with his assistants on it.

I've never heard of this.....I think they r only going to show the eye.....isn't there a way they could show the eye bearing down on Aragorn??

i suppose they could have the eye staring him down and maybe do something to him like it does to frodo everytime he sees the eye. What i was talking about though was somewhere i heard that he is actually in the battle throwing people around then he turns to aragorn and legolas yells out to aragorn. wish it was a source i could remember or trust. it is all just speculation....

Hmmm...I don't know if I'd like that!!!!!

I've watched it like over and over, and it definetly IS sauron because right before the clip, gandalf says.'it was forged by the dark lord sauron, in the fires of mount doom' it may be other clips from the prolouge that didn't make it all together, i still think that it is from the third, i mean the elfs at helms deep weren't supposed to be there, sauron isn't supposed to be in rotk, but he could for movies sake!

IT IS NOT SAURON!

Jackson said quite a few months back that they are re-shooting some of the Witch Kings scenes because his armour looked too similar to Sauron's. This clip was from before the re-shoots had taken place.

Is he surrounded by Eight Nazgul? Hrmm well I wonder where the 9th is - its HIM in the clip

what clip are you talking about? if it is the battle at the black gate then there would only be 8 wraiths so sauron could be surounded by the eight remaining. that was just me playing devils advocate because i havent seen the clip you are talking about. Sifer, i do remeber a report saying that exact thing about the witch kings armour looking too much like saurons. do have some photos of it you can post?

Well if u want to see what he looks like then here it is:

http://www.popcornlive.co.uk/products/04241.jpg

I am sorry it is only small, but its the only one I can find.

cool thanks man! ya he does look very sauronish. i dont know if i really like the way he looks in that. some of the armour doesnt look to good.

if it's NOT sauron, then why would they put a picture of the witch king after gandalf says 'it was forged by the dark lord sauron' and it isn't blue screen, well i don't think it is because it seems to light to be blue screen and there are red standards around. if anyone has the non extended fotr dvd( which i'm sure alot of you do!!), go to your extras dvd, look at teaser trailer 2

i'll check it out tonight! thanks.

where did you get that great faramir pic?

the clip u are talking about does actually appear in the prologue. it is when sauron appears at the last alliance and beats hell outa the army. the reason the sky is blue is because PJ has obviously coulou treated the image to give it a darker sinister appearence. END OF!

Actually...isn't that Boromir?? I've seen these pics really well, and I believe it's when he adresses Osgiliath soldiers...

well the clip we are talking about is in the FOTR. as enya freak says it is there it just is in the preview the blue sky hadnt been removed yet. the picture i got on my posts is of boromir retaking osgiliath. it is going to appear on the ext. version of the two towers. i guess faramir is going to have a flash back of boromir before he left for the council of elrond. i found it on theonering.net a great site, check it out.

Yep!! That's what I thought....that's the pic I was talking about.

I think sauron is in rotk physical form, they have sala baker casted for him in the cast of Rotk

maybe for flashbacks, or as the voice?

Wasn't Sala Baker also an Uruk-Hai? It wouldn't surprise me if he was.

I hope it's just for flashbks then.....wouldn't really like it if they gave him some form other than the eye in ROTK....http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/kwasny.gif

well its has to b form so its ither flash bak or not cause they would have put voice next his name like gollum

They don't ever put Sauron on screen. Except the prologue (which Sauron was awful)

Caline: Why was the Prologue Sauron awful?

ja. me love sauronman in prologue. hes all like "im so big! raaarr! boom!" and then theres lil peeples flying hahaha

Sauron is the BOMB! I loved him in the Prologue. He looked just like the Morgoth fighting Fingolfin on the cover of The Lays of Beleriand (if any of you have that). Anyway, you have to admit... It'd be pretty cool if they did have Sauron in physical form. And besides, wasn't he in physical form when he was the Necromancer in Dol Guldur? Doesn't that mean he could have a form other than the Eye that he could take (should he want to do something other than watching)? Because it makes sense to me that even if Sauron had a Physical form before going back to Mordor that he would take the form of the Eye so that he could see things better. And if that were so, wouldn't it make sense that he could go back to his other form? Wouldn't it make sense that, with help from his servants, he could even make a new body for himself (even though it be less powerful than of old)? Theoretically speaking, Sauron could even possess someone else's body (such as of a willing servant) and go off to battle as such? Just because they didn't happen in the books doesn't mean they couldn't happen. In fact, he just might have possessed someone's body (after improving it with his powers) and gone off to battle as such, even in the books, should he have wanted to. The all mighty Sauron can do many things he puts his mind to, especialy when not hindered by others. There is nothing to disproove that Sauron could take a corporeal form. For I say again, just because he didn't in the books doesn't mean he couldn't.

Even though it may be possible for him to do, PJ better not, and will not do it. He will be murdered by fans - and he knows it

People have always said I'm good at arguing both sides of any argument, and that's all I'm doing. I agree that it won't happen and that he'd be murdered by fans, but it still would be really cool.

I would love to see sauron in ROTK. it is definetely against the book, but it is a variation that i wouldnt mind.

I've seen pictures of the guy who's gonna play sauron's mouth...*shudder* Creepy.

Mithrael, do you have any pics of the guy? I dunno, it probably is from fotr, but only 90 days till we can all find out.... AAAHHHH!!!

I had written an elaborate post to point out that in the books he DOES have a physical form and included a link, but that was cought by the newbie filter. So in brief...

In the books:
1. He WAS the Necromancer (with a body) at Dol Guldur
2. Saruman never said anything about him not being able to take physical form. (In fact he was quite an able shapeshifter in his younger days)
3. Gollum himself says "He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough" in The Two Towers
4. Why would he need a ring, if he had no finger to wear it on?

Also check www(.)glyphweb(.)com/arda/movie.html
scroll down to major changes from the book to the films

Yes he was. Even Tolkiens own letters confirms Sauron having a body. (And still the Necromancer at Dol Guldur). Sauron just being an eyeball is the choiche of Peter Jackson, not Tolkien.

... which letter? *searching*


I always thought the Necromancer didnt have a real body so nobody knew who he was and called him "Necromancer"; So Gandalf went to Dol Guldur to find out more.
imho it was just "nameless fear"

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (Houghton Mifflin, 1981; reprinted in softcover, 2000)

" from 1937 onwards, there is an unbroken series of letters to the end of his life, giving, often in great detail, an account of the writing of The Lord of the Rings, and of later work on The Silmarillion, and often including lengthy discussions of the meaning of his writing "

www(.)amazon(.)com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618056998/102-6294898-4828146?v=glance

Yeah I know I have got the letters, but in which one(s) does he state that?

246 I believe.

I agree with you on him being vanquished in the fall of Numenor, but we obviously have differing opinions on his powers and the indications in the book.

Also when Pippin has his encounter in "The Palantir" he says something like "Then he came and he didn't speak, he just looked and I understood"

I might be wrong, but wasn't the fall of Numenor in the second age?

Neither am I. As he can change shapes (at least he had the ability some time ago) we can imagine almost anything. That's the beauty of it. The closest I'll go is saying that he's a large humanoid in his natural form.

The only thing he cant do is looking beautiful and friendly to Men.

lol I just found this on the net...
http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/sauron.gif

About the eye... some see it as being Saurons form, other see it as a represenation of his (whattayoucallit) omni-ability to see stuff concerning the ring when it's worn. I'm with the latter.

Luv the picture... Sauron be like "give me my ring" and Frodo be like "check out the schaaary eyeball of darkness"... Well it's funny in my head.

"The only thing he cant do is looking beautiful and friendly to Men"
Figures... him being real evil and all. And hot... Elendil was killed by the heat from Sauron's body. I'll wonder how that'll be portrayed.

Me too - And I think it's a very interesting description.

But sometimes it seems (especially in the last chapters - fx Mount Doom) that it's more than that.

This drawin of Morgoth, comes pretty close to what I imagine he would look like:

http: //img-fan(.)theonering(.)net/rolozo/images/howe/challenge.jpg

Oh one of my fav pictures
The one on the cover of the Lay Of Beleriand, right?

Yeah thats what I think he used to look like but I dont think he looked like this in the first centuries after the Last Alliance - at WR-time, perhaps.

Interesting, although some "Tolkien Pureists" will no doubt ***** and screama storm. **** 'em.

Been a while since I've been to KMC, and the same old thread...

Indeed yes, JS9. However, that does not mean that I wouldn't LOVE to see Sauron fighting Aragorn. I mean, come on! It would be AWESOME!! Imagine the coolness (or hotness because of Sauron's body) of such an Epic battle as that!

Okay, to clear up some discrepencies here...

Sauron had a body (obviously) when he went to Numenor, but he lost it when Eru blew it all to heck. So even though he escaped, his body didn't, and i quote: "After the ruin of his body in the destruction of Numenor, Sauron had the form of a man; his skin was black and burning hot." He then went on to fight in the battle of the Last Alliance, during which he and Gil-galad wrestled, and Gil-galad died from the heat. The Ring contained much of Sauron's power so that he would have that much power over the other Rings, so when the Ring was cut from his hand, the loss of power was so great that Sauron's body was destroyed in the fury. Weakened and without a body, Sauron retreated to the South-East, where he had total dominion over the inhabitants. For the next 1000 years he built up his strength, until he finally had the power to create a body for himself. However, this body was weak and had little physical strength, but rather served Sauron merely as a shell within which he could collect his old strength, and also upon which he could wear the Ring when found. His body was probably so weak that, were it pierced by a weapon, would be destroyed. However, over time, he increased in strength even more and began to grow stronger in body and power. By the time of the War of the Ring, his power and strength of body was so great that it nearly rivalled himself of old. He was, however, still very weak of spirit without the Ring, though its mere existence empowered him.When he was driven from Dol Guldur, Sauron's physical presence was great, and more than enough to carry him in secret to Mordor. Throughout the LotR, he was reffered to constantly as the 'lidless eye'. This is not without reason, mind you. His body as weak as it was, Sauron could more than easily abandon it, allowing his spirit to be unhindered by the corporeal form, and allowing his spirit to see farther deeper than it otherwise could. The most efficient form in doing this was to become a great and lidless eye. However, a great misconception is that he was a huge eye wreathed in flame sitting on the top of Barad-dur. That was not so. He was located in a high room within the pinnacle of the Barad-dur, a room with one window, which looked out directly upon Orodruin. Within the room was his body which he had long labored to build, the Palantir with which he communicated to his servants, And of course, the nine Rings of the Nazgul. With these Rings he increased yet more in power, and it is likely that he wore one upon each of his nine fingers. For his body was not just a random body being made from scratch. No, because he did not have the power to do that. Rather he was rebuilding his body as it was when he lost the Ring. Therefore he had only nine fingers upon his hand, and conveniently he also had the nine Rings o his servants. It is also known that he had at least a few of the Rings of the Dwarves, and he more than likely drew the power that he had placed into them back out, and used them to increse his strength even more. He did not draw the power from the nine Rings of Men because he would then destroy his precious Nazgul, and besides, he only needed to wear the Rings to have there power.

So picture him thus: His body rebuilt as it was in the Last Alliance, save missing one finger. He had similar armour to what he was wearing before, and, in fact, probably the same helmet. Upon each of his remaining fingers he wore one of the nine rings of men, and in his hands he held his great mace. Through his armour a great stench arose, do to is burning flesh, and his armour was noticeably redder in color than it should be, as a result of the heat. In the sockets of his eyes flared two great eyes, each wreathed in fire, and with such a piercing glance that one mere look could almost drive a mortal man insane. Indeed, the stare contained such heat and power that one under such a glance would feel as if he were on fire. Each step he took was an earthquake, each breath he took was a whirlwind, and each word he spoke was as a bolt of lightning. From within his mouth and nostrals eminates a pale glow, as if each were about to explode in a torrent of fire and death. The aura of his presence was of standing amid a graveyard whose inhabitants rise from their graves and attack you, full of fear and malice of unknown years, of power so immeasurable that one is overwhelmed with a need to smite himself just to end the pain. His every thought seemed to take being, his every whim a command to his servants. To deny would be to endure an eternity of pain and suffering, yet to follow would be the same. Such power of will he had that when his will is bent upon something, that thing crumbled into dust and burst into flame. A blow from his mace meant a surge of suffering and agony greater than any could imagine, a mix of fire and ice and thunder and death unlike any that has ever been known before. To match his will was not possible, rather to try would be certain destruction. None could survive his onslaught, none could withstand his strength and seming omnipotence. When his mace would make contact with a weapon of another, that wheapon would shatter and its wielder be broken. Only a God would have the strength to oppose him, only a God would have the strength to match him. A Hero, perhaps; but only for a short time. To win was not an option. Merely to live was the goal of all who come face to face with his likeness.

Okay, so maybe I got a little carried away with the picture, but you get the point.

Cool thank you for the text.

I also heard about that Sauron-Aragorn-thing, but they changed that and said it would be the Mouth of Sauron. No idea if that's true.

yeah, pretty much... i'm afraid

And yet even a purist should be able to appreciate the good old epic battle...

i love the idea and truthfully would not be apposed to seeing sauron in return of the king. i was wondering where you got all that info mormegil. i just noticed a couple things that were a little off like the part about him and gilgalad wrestling (elendil did also) but i havent read any of that and was always under the impression sauron was formless up to his destruction.

Evidence includes:
"He has only four on the Black Hand, but it is enough." - Gollum
"Then he came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood." - Pippin
"Some her will remember that many years ago I myself dared to pass the doors of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, and secretly explored his ways, and found that our fears were true: he was none other than Sauron, our Enemy of old, at length taking shape and power again. - Gandalf

More such quotes may be found, but I have not the time for it at the moment.

cool thanks man. now that you metioned those quotes i remember reading an essay on the subject. nice job.....

Is there anywhere a better description of Gil-galads fight against Sauron than Isildurs "The Ring misseth, maybe, the heat of Sauron's hand, which was black, and yet burned
like fire, and so Gil-galad was destroyed"?

i really got into it with Ush on this subject and all that i found, there wasnt much more on it. i tried finding the thread where we talked about it but when there is 19 pages to look through i gave up, sorry.

Seeing Sauron fighting in ROTK would be cool to watch indeed. But not to accurate.

Well maybe PJ will just show Sauron in his armour, just like in FOTR, but just a bit transparent to show he doesn't have a true physical form yet. We still get to see him, but nothing that would mess up what's written in the books.

the mouth of sauron is like the gatekeeper for the black gates.....its in the book...(this is the response for an earlier post)

i think it'll be freakin awesome if they have sauron in there just for that point... epic battle

oki need to know what happend to this scene...??? will it be in EE? i have mixed feelings for it....but i kinda would like to see it...

no. wont see sauron in his army. this rumour came out in connection to the pc game I think (witchy DOES look like sauron there). maybe it's also supposed to be the Mouth of Sauron (who looks great), but no scene like that on the Ee.

I hope we can see the Mouth of Sauron, I saw the art pictures done for the Mouth of Sauron, they're AWESOME!

share them with us kit

I only saw few of the mouth itself, but the drawings of his horse (and weaponry design) are GREAT... love them

you have them?

ONly in a book

aww to bad!

yeah i saw the artwork too,,,its realy good...there is also a smalll pic of sauron's head with his helmet off

ohh, he is going to be in it, there are several pictures in the different books out there, he is going to be played by bruce spence, who was the train man in matrix revolutions and did the voice of one of the sharks in finding nemo

yes, I was also surprised that the pic of the mouth of Sauron looked very similar to one called "Sauron"

I wonder if the mouth of sauron could actually be the body which sauron
took as the necromancer? He had to take somebody elses body to start
with.

I was also wondering if anybody knew if the scene in which the witch
king confronts gandalf will be in rotk
I read that he quote"bested him in single combat by breaking his staff

i hope everything they cut out wll be in it

Take somebody else's body? sounds like Voldemort... I think he was rather just unable to take a shape.



Yea, it will be on the EE; one scene of it was already in the trailer and the scene is afair in the PC game as well; it was also confirmed by PJ I think.

I think this is the most likely scenario, I read on the official site before ROTK came out that an actor had been cast to play the mouth of sauron, therefore he was supposed to be in it but his scene was cut. Im looking forward to seeing this on the extended dvd.

its there

remember- the posters- gandalf and pippin confront the witchking, wiki breaks gandalfs staff in combat and is about to destroy him- until the horns of rohan blow, and he moves off- thats where he is flying from when he takes down theoden.

Btw- thanks for creating me

lol, didn't Aule create you? according to someone on another thread

no iluvatar created me. and aule just...trained me

even if aule did create me, it would be feanor that gave me free will, like with the dwarves.

lol the sig ^^....wheres my one

@sauron....*mumbles*....boo to you

I played the EA ROTK video game for X-BOX,which is supposedly based
on the movie. In the game Aragorn"deals out royal justice to the mouth
of sauron after the mouth shows them the mithril coat and other things
which convinces them for the moment that all hope is lost. Of course this does differ slightly from the book, but I think it would be a cool twist!

By the way. Does anyone have any know where I could get some stuff
on the mysterious blue wizards?

P.S..Illuvatar craeted all!!! It's all in the simil.

Alatar and Pallando were the blue wizards who travelled and and were never heard from again. There's nothing about them

I have seen some pictures of a cut scene from the TT of a vision that
Frodo has of what may happen of he keeps the ring for himself,he looks
alot like Gollum. I wonder where you could find these cut scenes that
weren't even in the EE. I have also seen pictures of the Witch King and
his second in comand in thier true withered human form such as the one
in the weapon's and warfare book under Nazgul. I have no idea where
these pictures came from

"There was Eru, the one, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made
first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, who were the offspring of his thought, and
they were with him before aught else was made"

BTW; Your welcome!

The pix of the Witchking were already published together with FoTR;
They were used for the Twilight-Scenes when Frodo is in the "Wraith"_Void when he's wearing the Ring.

More infos about Alatar and Pallando is in the Unfinished Tales



btw, if you have something new to say after you already submitted your post, please use the "edit"-button to edit it instead of double- or in this case triple-posting.
Helps to keep the forum surveyable.

I sort of like this Illuvatar

Discos - except its spelt "silmi" for short, not "simi"

This is my first time using one of these forums, so I'm still trying to get
used to it.

There are some other pictures though"of the Nazgul"in their true form.
these pictures really aren't even a twilight form, but more like a black&
white studio shot. But if you get a chance to see them, they are really
cool. Iluvatar: all knowing, but not all spelling!

Iluvatar did not create the dwarves

just gave them free will.

oh great
lidless eye isnt me

i cant be sauron
i cant be my real life name
i cant be lord
i cant be the lidless eye


cry