Living Force/Unifying Force... hmm...

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Ushgarak
Ok, I have often heard people speculating about there being two sides to the Force, or at least two philosophies about it, split into those who believe in the Living Force, like Qui-Gon, and the Unifying Force, presumably being what Obi-Wan talks about in ANH, and also Yoda later on.

Indeed, Aussie sabre guy speculated that which sort you believed in set your sabre colour Iand with red being the evil colour that would measn there are only three)

I thought it was all pure speculation, until I noticed these very terms being used in Obi-Wan's bio on the Official Website, which suddenly makes the whole idea far more interesting. It says that, when referring to Obi-Wan's Master:

"Jinn, a proponent of the living Force over the more serene unifying Force, had long been a maverick in the eyes of the Jedi Council."

Anyone got any thoughts/info on this? Does it fit in with the Ghost Trick/Disappearing Trick/Midi-Chlorians? Or is it totally irrelevant?

phinney6
If u believe in the unifying force wut do u believe in??

Ushgarak
Well- and I am leapinmg into the realm of speculation here- if the Living Force is all about MCs and so on, then the Unifying Force will be all about what Ben says in ANH about it flowing through us and binding ther Universe together.

Jameous Woodshire
I doubt that saber color has anything to do with what force you believe in.

Luke had a green saber because GL thought it looked better agenst the desert background in Tunisa. He was going to have a blue one but it didnt look right. That small decision would throw Lukes belief from that of Yoda and Obi to the style tought by Qui Gon whom Luke never even heard of. Qui Gon got a Green sabre for the same reason as Luke did. Remember its based on GL and how it looks on film, not to any deep religious notion that he hasnt even thought of.

I also believe there will be more colors of sabres to come. If its to be believed that several dozen Jedi will fight in the arena how plain would it look to see 50 green and 50 blue sabres all on screen at once?

Ushgarak
Yeah, I know all about the reaons why Luke's sabre was green (it was the SKY that was the problem, not the desert; blue sabre looked rubbish against sky), but then Vader as Luke's father was a change between ANH and ESB, and they are explaining that now! It is entirely plausible that GL will introduce plot reasons to expalin things done out of necessity 20 years ago and foir reasons of varierty (with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan) today; it happens all the time, you have to do something for necessity but then explain it with plot so it seems right.

It is equally plausible that he won't explain it at all, of course, and that he doesn't care.

RM has said that there are only three sabre colours. Not everyone believes him, though. In fact, the whole area is utterly open to debate at this point.

Jameous Woodshire
Yep, untill it comes from GL's mouth or it's onscreen then I'll believe.

Although I do have to wonder why Sandsweet aproved multiple colors for the Jedi Council toys. Purple, yellow, etc. Steve has GL's ear and one would think GL would nix anything that wasnt in the plans.

And unless we see someone make a saber, I dont think the colors will be explained.

One things for sure, we will all know in 2005 wink

Ushgarak
Ah, well, GL's loose vetting of EU material has been a sore point before...

Meanwhile, does anyone have any comments on these potential differing Force philosophies?

Jameous Woodshire
Yep, I know all about the EU problems.

As for the diferent styles, I figured one has to do with the now, and one with the past and future influancing the present.

If you stay in the now, you can pick up things such as evil intent or lightsaber skils etc.

With the other you can see how events travel through time and space to see how things will differ.

Qui Gons vision had Ani bringing balance, but he wasnt rooted enought in the now to see how that would happen. Yoda was in the now abit more than the other so he couldnt see what was to happen on Bespin. Yoda and Obi coulnt see that Luke was going to survive and thus save Ani and bring him back.


Not saying you can't do one without the other, it's just harder to do.

Thats just off the top of my head, but it may be the answer.

The dissappering trick will be explained, but I think its something special that Yoda is working on and Obi finds out from him later. If you notiice Vaders reaction it's like he's never seen it before, and with all the Jedi he's to kill you'd think he's have run across it if it was related to the powers they already know.

Ushgarak
Oh, that is pretty much my view about the trick as well, though it doesn't explain how Anakin did it... I still wonder if there is a link with the MCs. Could Force Philosophies have anything to do with this? Can't help wandering if I am making a mountain out of a molehill here, but I am still intrigued.

phinney6
This is kinda off topic but a lot of people were wondering so, Obi-wan will be using a BLUE lighsaber in ep. II, Some people have been arguing over it, so As I bought my new star wars insider magazin, I saw ob1 on the cover sporting a new BLUE lighsaber. smile


I personally dont believe it has anything to do with the color of someones' saber.

Ushgarak
Yah, well, like I say, the link between philosophy and colour was made by Aussie sabre guy, and is pure speculation.

Darth Pants
Maybe it has more to do with destiny than belief. Qui Gon's belief in the living Force may have been due to the fact that he would be utterly, truly dead when he died. Obi Wan's insight into the future could have been because he was (unwittingly, until the end) a greater part of the Force itself.
As for sabre colours, I think they're only there to look pretty. I hope the Jedi don't have too much of a mixture, though. Angrier, fiery colours like red, orange and yellow should be reserved for Sith, with white, blue, green, purple, turqoise, etc being used by Jedi.

Sparky12
ok, i'm color blind, so you gouys will have to cross-reference for me here. in ROJ, yoda speaks of the force that "binds us". so are yoda and obi-wan's sabres the same color? but i also would like to look into the living force references later this week. also, i don't think met. count will have much to do with disappearing as in PM, obi-wan refers to anakins' count as being even higher than master yoda's. so unless there is a cut-off point, met. count shouldn't have too much of an involvement. especially since vader doesn't disappear in ROJ (i mean not undisputably, of course)

Ushgarak
Met count? MC count you mean.

No, I was not drawing a direct link between number of MCs and the disappearing trick. I just meant the MCs had something to do with it. They ARE sentient, after all, and can communicate the will of the Force. As they created Anakin, they could be the ones who pulled him into the Force when he died.

Jameous Woodshire
I'm still of the mind that the MCs 'created' Ani, from "A certian point of view".

That may or may not be the full story there. We will know much more about him next year.

queeq
I did NOT see Anakin disappear.....

As for the Unifying and Living Force, I was once in an elaborate and insightful debate on TF.N about that a year ago. There was something to it, but I can't really remember what the points of view were. It was quite interesting. And perhaps it all comes down to a balance between the Living and Unifying Force, perhaps that is the balance that needs to be restored. Hence, Anakin brings balance by saving Luke: the only one who ever owned both colour light sabres. laughing out loud laughing out loud

Sparky12
hey ushgarak, that's an intresting point about the MC's puling anakin, or whom ever, back into the force and thereby disappearing. but i remember yoda and/or qui-gon saying that the mc's are in all living things. so unless some mc's and their hosts just "pass on", there would defiitely be a connection between either the frequency or magnitude of mc's and their symbiotes. i'm definitely going to have to look into this.

Ushgarak
Thanks, Jeffrey, thought it IS just a mad idea of mine.

I'm sure no-one wants to bring up the whole Anakin disappearing debate again, though we still have more things that say he did than didn't...

queeq
Don't tempt me, Ush. laughing out loud

Dim
Well, it's the truth. laughing out loud If you can assume that he had dinner because he died than you can assume that his body dissappeared because he showed up with Yoda and Ben..Isn't that enough for you?..Mr. Beardi Sir?

Ushgarak
Damn right! And RM says so, and the website says so...

phinney6
yeah DAMN RIGHT!!!

Dim
laughing out loud And there you have it..

queeq
I'm still not convinced. If QGJ appears as ghost in Ep2 that theory is out of the window.

*waiting for Ep2*

DJ Velocity
If you think about it. Lightsabres colours could have something to do with what element of the force you believe.

Luke never made a blue sabre, he was given it whilst he was learning. It wasn't until he understood the force that he returned with the green sabre.

Look at how much Qui and ROTJ Luke are alike, aggressive and cock sure of themselves. This is not a trait displayed by Ben young or old!!!

Then again, who knows?

DJ Velocity
On the action figures, Mace has a blue sabre, Ki Adi Mundi has a purple and Adi Gallia has a sort of pink/purple colour. This could just be improvisation for the figures.

darth fester
yeah thats right ki-adi has got a purple one

Ushgarak
Yeah, but that's based entirely on EU material so we can ignore it.

darth fester
i may be wrong but on my phantom menace insiders cd it tells you the colour of the jedis light saber and im pretty sure one of them has a purple lightsaber i think it may be mace windu

ill check tonight and let u guys know tomorrow

Dim
Well, based on current SW product information a purple saber isn't unlikely.

queeq
Still EU.

DJ Velocity
I watched Phantom last night and noticed something else. Qui Gon and Obi have a minor disagreement about where Kenobi's mind should be. It seems Qui Gon and Yoda have different beliefs about this topic.

darth fester
well acording to my episode 1 insiders guide there is a purple lightsaber and a crimson one also


do you think the colour has any thing to do with rank
a padawan blue and a master green

maybe

Ushgarak
That would only work if

a. You assume that Obi-Wan never became a Master, which is why he is using blue in ANH and

b. Luke built his second sabre out of Quo-Gopn's old one, which is why it is green.

However, as we have already pointed out, any info on sabre colours beyond the three we know is ALL EU. There has been no official comment on that at all. The Insider's Guide is based on EU info (still a great product, though)

Jameous Woodshire
Believe that the toys have basis in fact. It will be so. Mark my words and this post.

Of course I cant post proof, but SLJ wants a purple lightsaber (like Dims?) and I bet he will get one.

But that will make the lightsaber in my sig incorrect but who cares. I really want to see more colors myself.

Ushgarak
Somewhere along the line SOMEONE at Lucasfilm is wrong. The producer says there are only three, the toys say there are more... like I say, it's still an open debate but I would be very hesitant to call it either way.

queeq
We'll find out next year then. So far I doubt GL would put in more than three colours.

Here's why: RGB. Three basic colours that make up any colour you want, as on the tv screen. Red Green Blue.

Darth Pants
Apparently, Sam Jackson said in an interview that he'd told GL he would like a violet blade, GL thought about it and implied it would go against the scheme.



I doubt GL will go against the RGB scheme, even at the will of The Man. Guess the flamesaber seems less likely too...

queeq
Yes, well, only one way to find out...

Ushgarak
Queeq's right, it's Red Green Blue. Let';s not be confusing pigment and light beam primary colours here.

DJ Velocity
Your three primary colours are Red, Blue and YELLOW not Green.

Bragg2012
wont it look a bit silly tho when we see this swamp of jedi's fighting in ep2 and all their sabers are green and blue?

Jameous Woodshire
In video terms he was correct. It is Red, Green, and Blue.

In art its Red, Blue, and Yellow.

In SW it will be all colors of the rainbow.

big grin

Darth Pants
Well, I think seeing hundreds of blue and green sabres blending together like a moving sea would look darned cool. Still hope there are a couple of exceptions though.

queeq
But it won't happen.

DARTHWALKER77
i never saw ani dissappear either. and the saber that was givin to luke was said to be ani's before he was vadar. it was blue right, just like obi-wans when he was training with qui-jon and qui's was green like lukes when he was a jedi. i cant remember the color of obi-wans when he fought vadar but maybe it has something to do with learning the force and knowing the force.

Ushgarak
To be honest, a logical interpretation is almost impossible. The only possible division (aside from a slightly muffed master/apprentice thing) are these two different Force philosophies (three if you count Dark Side).

Jameous Woodshire
Also remember that we (or some of us) had to wait 6 years just to see another color than blue and red.

I still think we will se other colore, it would be strange not to see several colors.

BTW Obi's saber was blue in ANH. That blows the blue= padawan Green = Jedi Master theory.

Luke only got a green saber because it didnt look right in the desert scenes.

Ushgarak
As I think I mentioned above, that scans if Obi-Wan never became a Master (possible- the Order mmight have been wiped out first, he nwould have been a very young Master) and if Luke built his sabre out of Qui-Gon's (regardless of the practical reason), but that is why I say it is slightly muffed.

Jameous Woodshire
If Luke became a master on his own. I would think that Obi would have also.

Maybe he just liked his saber so much that he never changed. But I still think the colors dont have anything to do with rank or belief in the force.

And I'd think its highly unlikely that Luke borrowed some of Qui Gons saber. Making a saber is a very personal thing for the Jedi to do (another reason for mutiple colors) and he would have to have done it from scratch in order to become a Jedi himself.

DARTHWALKER77
maybe we are going way to deep with this, maybe your right with the building of a light saber being such a personal thing and its just the preferance of the jedi what color they want the saber to be. and rc, this site is in my favorites but i still dont have freaking scrolls! what to do? mad

ratcat
WHat URL do you have in your address bar.

Is it;
http://www.killermovies.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi

??

DARTHWALKER77
thanx rc, that did it. YOU ARE A JEDI!!! big grin

Jameous Woodshire
What SLJ wants, he shall have. He's a bad...
Shut your mouth!

I know this isnt on screen yet, but here is one step closer.

http://www.starwars.com/community/news/2001/07/img/insider55_bg.jpg

queeq
Purple? Hmmmmm, very very interesting. But I do like it.

Jameous Woodshire
Ok, I changed my sig to reflect Mace's new color.

This is Mace's saber, I scanned it for my sig, now I've changed just the color.

rolling on floor laughing

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