Morpheus & The Kid

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Sifer
I am literally paused on a spot in the movie where The Kid gives Neo the spoon at the minute I type this. The reason I have paused it is because OMG, you should see the look that Morpheus is giving the Kid. When Neo is walking towards the Elevator with the spoon, if you focus on Morpheus, he is giving him the meanest look I have seen him give anyone.

Interesting smile

rysdigital
indeed, seems he's uberpissed because the kid'ss delaying them from contacting the oracle. "We don't have time". but it's weird indeed, i think you're hinting at morpheus knowing about bane? since those couple of seconds don't warrant that bad ass look stick out tongue

Sifer
I don't particularly think it's that he knows about Bane because he is looking directly at The Kid. I don't particularly think Morpheus trusts him - for certain reasons smile

Also, just watched the part where Neo opens the door to the Keymaker and where Morpheus, Trinity and Persephone are waiting there is something very amazing (it if isn't coincidence - which it doesn't seem). Morpheus is stood in front of a light. This light is white and has metal bars going horizontal across it. In the shot (for which he steps into that specific position seemingly) it shows this light next to Morpheus's head, specifically, near the ear and down to his collar on his coat.

Can you guess what it makes him look like? smile

GABRIEL05
I can't. Do tell

SpikeSpiegel
an agent?

Sifer
Bingo.

SpikeSpiegel
what a guess

rysdigital
morpheus no longer 'unplugged, a new man, so to speak' big grin

SpikeSpiegel
ummm...i may be a little slow on getting what you're hinting at here but, what r u hinting at?

-=Urot=-
My mouth would hit the floor if morpheus turned out to be an agent after his meeting with smith in M1.

OMG I dont want to hear anymore!!http://members.aol.com/apevine/emotes/lalala.gif

Another_Smithy
Sifer can you possibly get a picture of that thing with the light and Morpheus?

JediHDM
i don't think Morpheus is an agent, b/c Smith didn't have the power at that moment to clone himself, and Morpheus was already unplugged, plus he acts like a man, not one of the stiif agents. But i can't see that part, because my version is weird and show different angles than other versions...i dont know why.

VenomVA
Morph and agent?

"It can't be"

Sifer
I am only saying what he looked like. It's not what I am hinting at him to be. Read through my Morpheus thread to see if you can gather any clues at what I am hinting at.

It may or may not be true, I do not know and will not know until 5th November (maybe not even then), but the subtle clues made me AND my friends come to the same conclusion. It fits, lets put it that way.

Sifer
Something to bake your noodles on:

"Why isn't the syrum working?"

Ginerninja
I dont think he is an agent. If he was, why would Smith and the other agents when they capture him in M1 just pretend to be torturing him, he looks genuinely pissed when they give him that syrum.

-=Urot=-
Well don't forget Smith tried to take over Morpheus in the hallway leading to the Architech. It was almost done b4 Neo stopped Smith.

I wonder could Smith have some type of control over Morpheus form that brief exchange of code?

I guess we will find out on nov 5th.

burlyman
if you cant beat us
join us

-=Urot=-
:: I remove my last statement ::

Smith's encounter with Morpheus was after the dirty look towards the kid.

JediHDM
If i hadn't seen Morpheus unplugged so many times, even at all, i might be inclined to agree, and maybe, yes, it was meant for Morpheus to resemble an agent. However, Morpheus is not an agent, although it is possible that the "agent-similarity" is foreshadowing of what may become of Morpheus in the new movie...I dunno. I don't think he is an agent, though. I think that the look Morpheus gives is because he knows how Michael looks up to Neo, and he doesn't want Michael to waste their time. Nothing more, nothing less. Still not sure about the light thing, could you post a pic, cause i can't see it?

The Omega

JediHDM
yeah, i agree, about it not being a definitive expression of anything, but i also think that nothing is by coincidence, if that makes sense...

audioheem
well im not sure about the whole morpheus being an agent, i think thats a bit extreme. there would be no purpose for it. if he were an agent, what would his purpose be? to defer neo from the course of the one? i dont think so, he would much rather have left him inside the matrix and never allow him to be unplugged. unless you're saying he became an agent after freeing neo? but again.. when and where exactly? the point is that morpheus believes so crazyily in the prophecy, that his sense is blinded by it. also, in m2, he displays very raw human emotion with niobe and jason. explain?

Sifer
I haven't said Morpheus is a bloody Agent. I said the light next to his head made him look like one. Read the bloody post people.

JediHDM
I'm sorry man, didn't mean to make you upset... confused

Korri
hmmm intersting smile

icansee
Morpheus is the liberator, period!

VenomVA
indeed!

Sifer
Of course he is, but the question is why smile

-=Urot=-
Would Morpheus's character be loosely based on John the baptist from the bible?

His job is to usher in the chosen one to the world.

burlyman
urot > kick ass sig!

(im not religious so i dont know if this is same john)

as i said in thread 'Morpheus':

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (morpheus?) who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

JediHDM
That is for a different John, John the revelator. He was a disciple of Jesus. The john we speak of was John the Baptist, who came before Jesus, baptised him in the river, (which is the first mention of the Holy Trinity), and is killed. The passage you quote looks to be from "Revelations", although i would have to check to make sure. Perhaps, Morpheus will be sacrificed, just as John was.

The Omega
Sifer> Okay. YOU need to take your blood-pressure medication. Please remember that this is ONLY a debate forum. Don't fly off the handle if some people misinterpret or misread your post, okay?

There's a very cool picture of Neo at the Meri's castle, where he stands in front of a wall, so it seems light streams from his head. That is not a coincidence, of course it isn't.
Religious zealots are, quite simply put, dangerous. They believe so strongly in something, that they're willing so sacrifice anything for their belief. Morpheys belief got an entire crew killed, and Trinity, and the Keymaker.
If the shadowy hints mean anything, I'd say it's that Morpheus "fanaticism" could become dangerous.

JediHDM
Remember when Morpheus attacked Smith, to save Neo? fanaticism

...Sort of off topic, but, has anyone figured out what the painting in the Mero.'s castle is, it looks like the war between Heaven and Earth, but i can't find it on the web.

The Omega
JediHDM> You can take a look at in ETM when you get to the castle. I can't remember if there was anything special (I was too busy looking for the phone-number that's supposed to be hidden in the hall smile)

JediHDM
Omega> Thanks.

-=Urot=-
I think that is the main reason why Neo didn't tell Morpheus the prophecy was false. Neo knew if Morpheus found out that bit of info, it would destory his world, and send him over the deep end.

The prophecy is the only thing Morpheus has left. Without it he's lost!

Having said that. Imo Morpheus would become the most dangerous of them all. He would no longer be bound by a type of law/code. He would lose the will to fight. Then anger would set it. And final after anger has had its way with him, insanity would surely follow.

Morpheus would lashout at everyone around him. To make a long story short, he would become another Cypher.

Neo knew that, so that's why he didn't tell the truth.

jiggaman8604
Could someone post this pic up?
big grin Happy Dance

icon
Now correct me if I'm wrong, Neo did tell Morpheus. "The prophecy said that the One would Reach The Source and the war would be over..."

Neo: "No morpheus. It was a lie. The prophecy, the oracle. All of it was a lie"

Something along the lines of that, right?

-=Urot=-
I might be incorect. Oh well I'll check and see if i'm wrong tomorrow.

-=Urot=-
Thx Burlyman. smile

Icon> I just checked. Neo did tell Morpheus about the prophecy not being real. Morpheus didn't believe Neo.

I guess Morpheus is just blind to that fact that it is a lie. Imo it still doesn't change what i've said. Once that fact sinks into his mind. I think Morpheus will flip out and become like Cypher.

I think Neo has to make the prophecy come true inorder to make the war end. In essence, making a lie into the truth.

Icon thank you for correcting me. wink

icansee
Morpheus, has accepted the truth from Neo in reloaded.

-=Urot=-
Kes did he really? You just can't walk up to a zelot and tell him his whole world was a lie. He may acknowledge it then, but did he really except it?

*** I need to watch Reloaded again. ***

Korri
thats not Kes laughing out loud

SpikeSpiegel
laughing out loud

Korri
same avatar though i can see y it would be confusing

-=Urot=-
laughing out loud I never looked at the name.

sorry about that. whistle

Korri
Llaughing out loudL i would have made the same mistake too

-=Urot=-
big grin

icansee
Sorry , that was the best avatar I could find at the time. In regards to M the pill giver. He accepted what neo told him in regards to the comment. "A man with a dream now the dream has gone from me" or something like that.

Also remember, the war was not over once Neo met the father of the Matrix. M the pill giver was told that the war will end once Neo walks through the white door....

So in my view the pill giver has accepted the truth.

JediHDM
"I have dreamed a dream, but now that dream has gone from me"

The most emotional sentence in any of the Matrix movies...

Korri
its so sad

icansee
JediHDM
Thanks, I knew I did not completely get it right.

JediHDM
No prob. cool

-=Urot=-
Yeah I was wrong. You can beat me with a stick.

*** I just might enjoy that! ***

laughing out loud

JediHDM
NO, we don't beat people cause they're wrong...
We beat people because they choose to live in Ignorance, and are unaccepting of the truth. You are neither.

Also, i think Morpheus might have lashed out, but now, since he see's that his world is turned upside down, the Neb is gone, i think he will accept it and move on, get back with Niobe, although anyone might die, everything is up for grabs...

icansee
lol lol lol

-=Urot=-
I was kidding about the beating JediHDM. wink

SpikeSpiegel
You were?
*hides baseball bat*

-=Urot=-
Llaughing out loudL

JediHDM
...oh, ok then...
Well, i guess the weekly beating is off guys, do not, i repeat, DO NOT meet at my place, by order of -=Urot=-. And put those brass knuckles away...

-=Urot=-
eek! My god!

*** Runs away in horror! ***

JediHDM
HAHAHA shifty angel

VenomVA
laughing out loud

SiriusBlackRIP
Can we get back to the topic pls people. I'm with you on this one Sifer, why is Morpheus the guy who free's people? Because he is a necessity to the Matrix. He is the person whose sole purpose is to find the one and get him to the source.

hodgie723
Sure. If you want to think of it that way.

JediHDM
Morpheus isn't the ONLY guy who frees people, but he is the one who frees NEO. Besides, if we go to mythology, Morpheus was the god who gave men dreams, visions. Morpheus was destined to free Neo, because he was the one who could help Neo to believe he was the One. And his sole purpose is not to get the One and bring him to SOURCE; just because we only know about the Oracle telling him he would find the One, doesn't mean that is the only thing she told him, and that doesn't mean that he doesn't have purpose after fulfilling this purpose.

icansee
M the pill giver say's
"I was told that I will find the one"

The Omega

icansee
All you need to do is watch reloaded, M has given into Neo comments on the prophesy.

icansee
AS we all know the war was not over as M predicted, after Neo went through the white door.

JediHDM
um, Morpheus believed this because he was told to believe this, he was told it would happen in a certain way. Morpheus didn't predict this. And i think Oracle has defected because "there's one thing i'm interested in, neo, the future. And believe me, i know, the only way to get there is together."

hodgie723
Jedhi is right. and Omega has gotten some good points but just think about this for a second.. If Morpheus sacrificed his life for Neo in the first one and then Neo AND Trinity went into save him isn't that kinda foreshadowing that if Neo does in fact get into trouble in Revolutions like Morpheus did in M1, that Trinity and Morpheus will go and save Neo?
Just a theory.

burlyman
isnt that what there doing in hel?

The Omega

JediHDM
Omega> Very good point. Very plausible, you have very good insights.

Ginerninja
Hmm, Yes....He and Sifer do come up with very believable, insightful, intelligent guesses....Or are they just guesses.......WACHOWSKI BROTHERS big grin

burlyman
Omega is not a guy! laughing out loud

The Omega
(New Forumites):"I just thought you were a guy."
(The Omega) "Most guys do."
big grin

There is just one more thing we should figure out (or me at least). Why did the Architects room/Skyscraper blow up?

JediHDM
Did the Archietects room blow up, or was it that the bomb exploded, because Neo was not supposed to be there, seeing as how the door had closed. neo would have had to have flown a really far way, to get to the door, seeing as how the door disappears into a field of stars when Neo appears in the Archie room. Also, think about the time that the door is open. 314 secs. it is a cycle, in the truest sense of the word. pi is approxiamately 3.14, and pi is used to find circumference of circle, the time it takes a circle (cycle) to be complete. Neo broke the cycle, when he chose the left door. I think the Skyscraper blows up because, the choice can only be made once, you cannot go back once you make the choice, or rather, once you understand the choice.

The Omega

JediHDM
yes Exactly!!! Also, speaking of backdoors, i realized that the hallway to the Oracle, it almost looks like the backdoors, except more, real-looking. It is more human, whereas the backdoors are more machine. A failsafe is quite possible. And, yes, Archie thought through everything but human love, and this is why Neo will succeed. "He loves her too damn much".

Diverging... You know, i cannot open the door to my dormroom, without thinking of the part when Neo slides the key in the lock, and you see the pins slip right into place...I almost expect my door to glow... cool

hodgie723
why does the buliding blow up you ask? if you watch reloaded again, thje ketmaker tells them that every floor is riged with explosives.. and if someone tampers with them then they will explode.

burlyman
is it me or is that building triangular? wink

The Omega

burlyman
if i were you id hope we dont meet again
we wont

JediHDM
Maybe, and this is a big if, the matrix were designed so that, if the anomaly choose the door into the Matrix, it would destroy the architect, destroy the building, destroy the source(?). This would mean that Archie knew he would die if Neo went through that door, and he allowed it to happen...WHY?

icansee
So you have some skill.

Sifer
The source cannot have been destroyed as the machines would likely cease to function. Not to mention: Where would Zion gets its power? Hrmmmmm smile

"When I think about all those people plugged into the matrix and ?look here? I cannot help but think, that we, in a way are plugged into them."

Interesting smile

JediHDM
also, the actual mainframe likely resides in Zion, somewhere, but it has a "digital self" that can probably be destroyed without any harm to the actual source itself. Where does Zion get its power now? They make it, so the Source has nothing to do with that.

Sifer
Do they make it? Where does it say that?

Also

"From Red Core to Black Sky..."

JediHDM
they do not say it right out, rather, when Neo is talking to Homann, homann says"although, we'd have to consider what would happen to our lights..." which makes me think they create their own electricity.

Also, are you sure Morpheus says from red core?, maybe he is talking of the CORE of the Earth, seeing as how Tank said in M1 "...near the earths core, where it's still warm..." If morpheus is talikng red core to black sky, then he is meaning tremble the entire earth, so all machines know that they are unafraid.

Sifer
Indeed - but remember, the majority of things with the Wachowski's have multiple meaning smile

Also, when Hamann is saying about the lights etc. that is what would happen if you turned them off. Each of the machines have different purposes such as the one that recycles their water. But where do these machines get their machines from. I thought Hamann answered this with this line:

"When I think about all those people plugged into the matrix and ?look here? I cannot help but think, that we, in a way are plugged into them."

It would make sense. The machines lose their power, the humans lose theirs smile

JediHDM
Yeah, but they are two seperate systems. There is no direct feed that runs from Zion to Machine Mainframe, cause if they did, what would keep them from amassing their own army to destroy the mainframe? That would kill all the machines, and although it would probably kill all the humans in the matrix, i think it would be a samll price to pay, don't you?

Sifer
How do we know there is no direct feed?

If Zion recieves its power from The Matrix as well as the Machines, then if it is destroyed, both species die.

I'm sure you have noticed the 3 power lines in the trailer. Well take a look in Zion smile

JediHDM
Yeah, i saw the power lines, but i didnt think anything of it, cause of "The Millers Tale".

The Omega

JediHDM
what is 01? what did i miss? Also, i dont think there is a programmers backdoor that can reach the Source, otherwise, Neo wouldn't need to go to Architect. However, Neo may have to create a backdoor, in order to truly win over the machines.

burlyman
u realise this was the other way round rite


in ffoto thaddeus says "whats four kilometres straight down"
where does that make zion

01 is the machines city (in saudi arabia) see second renaissance

The Omega

Teunis
Lots going on here. I will try to catch up starting with:

The building blowing up.
There is a a small alloted amount of time where Neo can enter the first door and then enter the second door, from which he enters a third door, which is where Archie is. During the said amount of time the building will not blow up. After that time is up, you're on your own. When Neo exits the door, that alloted amount of time is long gone. Hence BOOM. So, the fianl words exchanged between Archie and Neo can be taking in many ways. Archie knows he will die if Neo goes through the door that leads to Trin. OR, Archie believes that Neo will not make it back to Trin to save her and Zion and everybody "plugged" into the Matrix will die becaus eof the "choice" that Neo said. YES, I said "Choice".

Is Zion not connected to a very large "generator"?
We have seen the water filtration pumps and such. these can be used as a source of power also, much like Niagara Falls powers much of Niagara Falls the city and many cities and town in that area of the U.S. So, Zion could NOT have a direct feed from the Matrix for a source of power and could servive on it's own if the matrix is destroyed.

Just to throw a bolt into a pile of nuts.
Tank says "Near the earths core, where it's still warm". In "The Last Flight Of The Osiris" (I can;t remember who) a crew member says "What's 4 kilometers down". Another crew member "Zion". 4 km is about 2 miles. that's not very close to the core, you think?????

The Omega

hodgie723
Didn't Tank say.. "Near" the earth's core. Where it's still warm.": Juest wondering, why isn't that plausable?

rysdigital
do we know for sure the osiris is above the original surface when that is said? maybe the sentinels and digging machines are deep inside the original earth's crust already (earth may have changed a lot during those long years of repression, remember: Morpheus said the year was closer to 2199, but he didn't know about the 5 other One's, which - combined with 'i remember that for 100 years we've fought these machines' - leads us to believe the year is around at least 2700)

bigempty
My guess is Smith detonated the bombs. He seems to be only one that wants Neo dead. Cypher did in M1, but he paid the price for that. Now Smith in next wink

JediHDM
um, Cypher didn't want Neo dead, he just wanted to be reinserted into the Matrix, and he had to give up Morpheus to do that...In order to make sure his plan worked, he had to kill everyone else on board the Neb. And, i dont think Smith had anything to do with the bomb, i dont think Smith even knew he was in the Matrix. That bomb has two possibilities, either it was set off by Neo reentering the matrix, or it was set off by Neo to try and Kill the Architect. Just about everyother idea i've heard has been an offshoot of one of these two ideas, in different formats.

Sifer
The Omega: That just backs up my theory on the people of Zion recieving their power from the Matrix smile

JediHDM
Sifer> That doesn't mean they dont make their own power, though, it just means they probably dont use geothermal power.

Sifer
What other power do they use then? I don't see any billowing smoke or any flowing water or any wind for that matter or even any Radiation signs anywhere indicating they use a Nuclear power source.

JediHDM
they can use fusion, its possible, i mean if the Machines DID build Zion(which im not saying they did) then they would make it use cold fusion, wouldn't they? I mean, dont you think the humans would figure it our if they were being fed energy, after 100 years? they have to free some engineer, or electrician, or someone who would know that the power isn't just coming from nowhere...Besides, how would you see billowing smoke when the SKY IS SCORCHED? no, im not saying they use coal, wind, water, etc. Im just saying that it is implausible for the Zionites to just have electricity coming from 01, or wherever the hell its coming from, without wondering, at least once, Gee, how are we alive, breathing, seeing; where does our electricity come from?

burlyman
in ffoto:
jue: ive never seen the surface
thad: its nothing now but 1 big graveyard

jer
Hey I'm a newb but i just had a theory.

Talking about 4 km down not being close enough, is it possible that during the war the bombs could've destroyed a lot of the earth and made giant craters, or just obliterated most of the crust. If so it might only be 4 km down to be close to the earths core.

Also when the oracle says something about only caring about the future and believe me the only way we're going to get there is together. Couldn't she have meant that the only way to have a future would be for machines and man to come to a truce on head towards the future "together"?

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