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DarthBorgie
Jedi Padawan
posts: 113
(3/30/01 1:02:35 am)
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In regards to Phantom Menace, what could have been added to make this an all around better film? I know some things that could be deleted to make it a better film? Either one, your choice. Discuss amongst yourselves.

The Phantom Menecepecial Edition
This Time, No JAR JAR!
(we decided to just straight out put a mickey mouse with a bad accent)


finti
Jedi Master
posts: 1033
(3/30/01 7:48:56 am)
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Be a boring topic if we only discussed amongst ourselves
finti
is unavoidable, he is your destiny


mechmoggy
Jedi Padawan
posts: 28
(3/30/01 2:48:39 pm)
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I'd say replace the whole Naboo cartoon battle and have the trade federation army do a little musical number. I'm thinking with all those robots connected to the same brain then they could get some real good choreography going on - every step in unison and all that, eh? I think I may be onto something here....where did I put GL's number...
" I'll be careful"

"You'll be dead!"


Arvel Crynyd
Jedi Padawan
posts: 2
(4/10/01 9:44:35 pm)
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Try letting Plo Koon have more of a role- he is my hero.

I would say give the JC a bigger role altogether. Thats one of my main complaints about EP 1, the Council doesn't really do anything. You'd think that a suspected Sith would draw them out.

Exactly. I got the visual dictionary a couple of weeks before the film came out, and I thought " Great! I can't wait to see this lot in action! " Yet the opportunity was passed up. One word from Oppo Rancisis would have outclassed the Caribbean comedy creature's entire performance.

For Episode 1 it would have benefitted from if it had kept what had been taken out like the underwater battle the fact C3 PO was originally going to stay with Anakin and if MAUL had leapt up onto the ship as he was meant to. Beyond that it would be nicer with again inferrence to back history so new viewers could get into it and ripping out the dialogue and updating it all... Beyond that it was a great film

i think it would be cool if TPM ended at the funeral scene. having the celebration right after the funeral seems weird, it's all sad and then all of a sudden its all happy, quit messing with my mind lucas! my head will explode by the changes of mood! BANG!!

ok im finished

but seriously, it would change the mood of the ending of the movie, i would much rather have it end like that than how it did

ok, now i am really finished, thank you x()

Yeah, I do think it'd need another scene to build up to the end music, but it needn't have been so happy. I'm convinced Boss Nass is made of plastacine when he jumps down from the Faamba.
It was less of a Jedi council, more of a Jedi trio.

it would have been good if ki-adi mundi got his head chopped off by palpetine and then he used it as a giant ice cream cone

PM was such a mess, it still would suck unless you reworked it from the plot down, but:
As much Maul as there was Vader in Star Wars. Cut the pod racing to a bare minimum.
Have James Earl Jones dub over Anikin's lines.
Fix the lip-sync for the Neimoidians, that was just lazy.
Don't interupt the end fight scene with the Queen running about, I could'nt give a damn abot her.
Jar Jar is now a guy in a suit or a puppet, the cgi wasn't impressive, even for a second.
Cut that thing off the back of Ewan McGregor's head.

I hate this kind of crap, yes I did say crap. You describe a different film entirely.

Let's make one thing clear, Star Wars is about one thing, George's vision.If you don't like it then fine, don't watch it, but don't start off this rubbish again.

There are a lot of so-called fans who believe they could have done a better job. How many movies have they made? How many screenplays have they written?

Don't bemoan others work, Lucas owes you nothing what so ever, you don't like the film then don't buy the video or the DVD.

Throw out you Star Wars figues that you pretend are just for investment purposes. Put all those NJO books in the trash. Stop playing Dark Forces and X-Wing...

Bottom line is that Star Wars is a 6 part story and TPM had to set up not only for 2 & 3, but also for 4-6. That's hard. Prequels are always harder cos you have to get to a predefined conclusion almost.

Was the film made purely for you? No! Are you even in the target audience, probably not. Just cos we all grew up over the lasy 20 years doesn't mean Star Wars had too. It's still aimed at a predominatly young market, I suggest you acceot that or move on because Episodes 2 & 3 will prbably contain a lot more of the stuff you hate.

Ignoring all the crazy/unrelated stuff you just said. I am willing to forgive a film a whole hell of a lot before I start to dislike it, any way you look at it TPM had serious problems. So don't start this 'so called fans' unquestioning loyalty thing. And so what if a film is aimed at a young audience? That shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality. All avalible information would suggest that episode 2 will be darker that the first one. Also Star wars is a nine part story.

Edited to remove personal insults

crusin for a brusin..

9 part story?? where u hear that monkey crap from? yes i did say monkey crap.

I also agree with RC if TPM was any different it would screw up the rest of the prequels GL got it just right.

Yeah, it's six parts. You may say many things, Mr. Critic (It Stinks!), but I would be wary of doubting the Star Wars knowledge of these people!

Look, TPM was not perfect by any means, but I think that as a true prequel it worked very well. It's purporse in introducing us to the charatcers and setting up the story will be better appreciated once the story is finished.

Perhaps, Mr. Sherman, before you get up on that teetering high horse of yours you would like to check your facts.

6 Parts, as confirmed by George Lucas over 4 years ago.

And, incidently, all information points to a Romance and love story with Action. Episode-III will be the really dark one. Trust me, I've been following this thing for over 2 years now.

There is no "Unquestioning Loyalty" Episode-I had some flaws, but some on the stuff you asked for just goes forward to make bigger problems.

Having a nine year old speak with the voice of a 68 year old man, yeah that would have worked.

As to your interpretation of the final scenes of TPM. So, it was all about Maul Vs Jinn/Wan was it? No it wasn't, it was about the reclaiming of Naboo, Yes the Jedi/Sith battle was impressive, but in fact it made no real difference to the outcome.

The whole point of those scenes was for the Queen to reclaim her rightful place on the throne and to take back the planet for her people. Mauls presence was an inconvience but, with the Starfighters already launched, he was never in a position to really affect that battle, or the Gungan/Droid Army conflict. True, he may have gotten to Anakin and that may have turned the way things happened, but once QG & OB engaged him he was really out of the picture as they just kept him busy.

NEXT!

Actually, on that point RC...

In the original drasft Maul was guarding the switch that would have de-activated the orbital shield that was preventing the Gungan army being bombarded out of existence, which gave more credence to Maul as a threat than just the vague idea that he would have nabbed the Queen if the Jedi had been there.

I think it would have been nice if Maul had been made to appear more as a direct threat that HAD to be dealt with rather than just a hard nut on the bad guys side.

That would have made his reason for being their more credible.

As I said, it's not like TPM is without its flaws but the "I could have made it better" brigade really get me goat.

Star Wars consists of three trilogys, Lucas can no longer make episodes 7-9 because he saw no way of getting arround Harrison Ford's refusal to take part so he's making 1-3 instead.

Also, I never claimed that I could have made episode one better than lucas, that was a creation of RC.

ALSO, the James Earl Jones thing was a joke, you maniac. Episode 2 will be DARKER than the first one. More attention should have been paid to the jedi/sith battle because the Queen was never characterised to the point that I cared about what she was doing, it would only have taken a few lines.

Hmmm, let's take these one at a time.

First post: The three trilogies go back to 1978ish. However, as Lucas has publically stated that there will now only be two trilogies, you calling me a moron was unwarranted and your 3 trilogy claim incorrect. As the Star Wars saga is about the life of Anakin Skywalker who dies in ROTJ there is now 7-9.

Second post: And I never clained you did. I did say that I hate the "I could have made it better" brigade, however I did not say that you were a part of that brigade.

Third post: Because YOU did not care about the queen? That Jedi/Sith battle was irrelevant as portrayed on the screen. It was more of a showcase than an integral part of the plot. The Plot was to return Naboo to the people of Naboo. As a whole piece, the 4 battles worked together. Their sinergy was what made the plan work.

How you can say the character of the queen was not developed confuses me, she had a lions share of the screen time in TPM, during which many aspects of her character were showcased. Frin the hot-headed young woman who disagrees with the actions of a Jedi Master but can not do anything to control them, to the wise beyond her years queen who knows and understands her duty to her people to the general of troops planning a daring operation to retrieve her throne.

**Mods Note: Please can you also keep the personally directed insults to yourself. You are fee to comment on the opinions of anyone, but specific name calling IS against the AUP of this board.

I am afraid you have been mis-informed about the Trilogies, Jay. GL was always going to make 1-3 before 7-9, and he dumped 7-9 a long time ago because he wasdn't convinced of ther relevance to the story. Mind you, he still has the vague ideas in his head about them

GL's origional vision of star wars was a trilogy of trilogys, impossible now, for more reasons than not due to Harrison Ford's refusal to take part. Granted you never said that so in that many words, it was clearly insinuated. Say what you want, the queen was never efficiently/properly characterised in the ways you claim despide a great deal of screen time, largely due to the incompatibility of NP's dodgy, inexpressive accent and the typical SW script and the story being further confused by the secret amidala/padme same person thing.

Well Jay Sherman have you ever heard the royals talk. They have no dialect, no tone kind of real dull way of talking, dozy talk. I think NP did a good job of portraying a royal when she was Queen Amidala, as Padme she talked diffrently.

Well, originally there were going to be 3 trilogys. One of the fall of the Republic, one of the fall of the Empire and one if the rise of the New Republic. GL thought years later that there was nothing to say about the rise because he said in the movie that there were no Jedi left, so he thought there wasn't much action going on.

My main worry now is that Natalie Portman's heart isn't in it, which sounds a bit cruel but I can't help thinking that she regretted signing such a long-term deal.

Howeveer, you are right, and I think everyone has a lot more room to manoeuvre, as it were, in Ep. II

Well, she has said that she doesn't see herself remaining in the acting profession.

Given the oppertunity, Lucas would make nine movies. Episode one was a huge disappointment, I'd have to care an awful lot about SW in the first place to be so disenchanted. The comic book characterisations were/are short but brutally efficient, you understood the characters the second you herd them talk or in some cases saw them, for a number of reasons, NP's character never came across as intended and you did not become emotionally attached to her. Also you assume to much.

From my experiences of people who have seen the movie Amidala does not seem to have got across to them in the way I think she should, that's all I can really say.

@A dull Princess Leia' os what most of them say. Not really what was intended, I am sure. No talk of her inner conflict, need to protect her people or young child being thrust into galactic politics.

From 1977 untill recently, Lucas had directed a single substandard film, based on that, any changes he made to the star wars story during that time, are suspect. QA came across with little/none of the charm that we associate with star wars characters, clearly this was not Lucas's intention. 'Did not become emotionally attached' is based on public opinion, one of the main complaints about Episode one was the lack of loveable characters. The target audience for the first film (and it's sequels) were children AND sci-fi fans, the original films were of such high quality that they had universal appeal, THM falls short of this, I would expect GL of all people to be able to make more than just a kids movie.

I don't think that there was an inner conflict, from the novel, with isn't strict canon I know, but the best source in this instance, it said that she had been trained from a very young age to forefil the role of queen. Makes it sound like she was almost pre-ordained for the role.

Personally I liked the queen, guessing here that others didn't For me the most annoying charactera were Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn.

It is interesting to note that the whole Qui-Gonn the maverick is being pushed heavily by official sources now, more so than when TPM was released.

The point STILL remains that Lucas dumped the idea of 3 trilogies a long time ago. To infer reasons that were never stated is rather silly. WHATEVER the reason was, Lucas made his decision and therefore any reference to a three trilogy series is null and void.

You can't argue with the facts.

As far as Natalie Portmans performance goes, she was pretty much universally complimented on her performance.

On the whole, I can't understand why you would even be bothered about the next movie if you hated TPM so much. You don't sound like you enjoyed at all with all the poor acting, shoddy effects, terrible scripts, superflous scenes & characters and minimal character development.

As I said before, it may not be perfect but it is still true to the Star Wars of the 70's and 80's.

What it seems to me, and this is purely my opinion, based on what I have read so far, is that you enjoyed the original trilogy so much, but being much older now you found TPM to be somewhat immature for your tastes.

Personally, I enjoyed TPM, but for quite different reasons to the OT. My enjoyment came from being able to share with my son something that had been a big part of my youth. Seeing the awe and wonder in his eyes that I first experienced in 1977.

THAT is how I know that TPM was spot on, because that target audience loved the film, watched it again and again on video and even went back and watch the OT. Star Wars is basically a family film and has to appeal to the family market, always has and always will. That was Georges vision, and in that I don't think he has changed. Look back at the influences for Star Wars. Saturday morning Flash Gordon at the Nickelodian. Kids films, that's really all there is to it.

Sorry if all this "crazy stuff" doesn't rest well on you BTW.

They digitally lowered NP's voice in ome scenes to make her sound more 'regal', I understand... I am not sure if that was quite such a good move; impersonating one of the Royal Family is more than just low-toned expressionless speech, thought that is in the right general area.

It must be said, though, that looks aside, Amidala did not connect with much of the TPM audience in the way that she should have done to make the dramatic link. I don't think its because of her performance; I think the story structure was as such that she never really came across quite the way she should have done.

And it's a shame, because her character development over the course of the film was very much in keeping with traditional Star Wars, but in the end it did not work out as well as it should have done. Maybe the direction is to blame.

But you could never blame that on Portmans ability as an actor.

Think back to Luke, how much development did he really get in ANH? If you take it as a single entity then you may see a fairly cmparable development.

Remember, as Lucas said, we have only seen Act one of a a three act piece.

Well, that's all down to aaste, I guess. because I think QGJ is the best charatcer they have introduced since A New Hope; I thought he was bloody marvellous.

But these differences are all part of the fun of being a fan...

Curious, that there are no JarJar fans here?

NOt a fan as such, but I didn't hate him. I thought he was fun.

Yes, Ush, I agree, but then people come along and quote "public feeling" or "public opinion".

Problem is that I as much public feeling" or "public opinion" can be produced for both arguements.

Anyhow, bottom line is that it's a matter of taste as you say and I liked the majority of what I saw, though I was disappointed with the Jedi.

However, my final opinion will be posted in 2005 when all 6 films are out there. Only then can we really give a fair comment on the achievements of George Walton Lucas Jr.

Not going to bother mentioning the dreadful dialogue of JJ and Anakin. Instead would have liked to see TPM focus on Obi Wan/Anakin. I felt that Lucas only put Qui Gon in Ep I to "spread the blame" for Ani's fall. That way it doesn't look like it's all Obi-Wan's fault that he fails at his training. Scrap QG, focus on Obi/Ani, and a HINT of who the Sith really are and their past with the Jedi and the movie would've worked much better. Less silly CGI characters and more human relations and emotion...'Nuff said!

O think Lucas wanted to portray Ob1_Wan as having taken on Anakin when he didn't really want to. I know that the Anakin/OB1 relationshgip is to be explored in Episode-II, according to the report on the OWS yesterday.

Back to the whole JJ/Anakin Dialogue thing though, I still think that Anakin was supposed to be played as a naive child with big dreams, whilst he knew how to look after himself, he was naive of the real world, only knowing Tatooine. That is how he came across to me, and that seemed right under the circumstance.

Also, I know that young children related well to Anakin. Whilst a lot of adults questions didn't "get" Anakin, children did, and they also loved Jar Jar too. Once again it is clear that the target audience "got" it whilst the adult audience found it irritating.

I fundamentally disagree on scrapping QGJ making it sem more Obi-Wan's fault. I am pretty sure that QG would have amade a good job of traching Anakin. Obi-Wan's first mistake- the source of it all- was his promise to his dying Master to train Ankin, a task he was not adequate for.

Good stuff, I thought.

I agree, whilst I found the two Jedi to be an irritation, I can't see a justification for taking them out completely.

Man that Jay_Sherman character was very annoying.

uh huh, and didn't answer my final points either.

And I never got a chance to tell him what I thought of him.


Can I just say that it really annoys me when people state that "the fans didn't like this" or "the adults don't like this part". Please stop gerenralising. I'm an adult who thought Jar Jar was a great SW character and Anakin was exactly how he should have been.

I didn't like Padme as much as I did the Queen but that wasn't down to Lucas or Natalie Portman. It was because there was nobody for Padme to play off.
In the OT, Leia had both Luke and Han to talk to but Padme only had Anakin and I felt there should have been a bit more dialogue between those two.

Is Jay gone for good?

Who knows, who cares. I have no feelings on the subject,

Would you still say that if he came back?