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I've heard some huge numbers thrown about over time, as would befit a Galactic fleet. But Han's line in ANH when considering the idea that the Empire destroyed the planet makes the fleet out to be much smaller. What do you think?

The Imperial Sourcebook does not give the exact number of Imperial Warships. However it does state that at the time of the Battle of Endor, the Empire has at least four Super - Class Star Destroyers and over 25,000 Imperial Class Star Destroyers.

4? I knew about the Executor, and suspected that maybe another couple existed - what were the other three called, anyone?

The Terror (which gets destroyed in Rebel Assault 2), the Lusyanka (which is in Crimson Empire), and the Guardian (which is in Wanted By Craken).

Those are EU, so, sorry, no good.

Known ship names are: Executor, Avenger, and Devastator.

No other name has official status.

Han's line in ANH makes it clear that the Imperial Fleet numbers less than a thousand ships.

You asked a question and you got an answer. That should be good enough for you. One other thing, EU IS revelant. I am sick of fans saying EU doesn't count. It DOES count. Check out the post I started (under a different name) "EU IS relevant" on the old board.

Yes, but you are utterly wrong. I'm sorry, but that is simply a fact. No EU source has any canonical status in Star Wars. This is not a matter of opinion. It doesn't matter how sick you are, you are plain wrong.

I don't mind answers based on EU, but they are no more correct than any opinion that you and I may come up with independantly. And they are certainly overridden by Han's line in the film.

Han doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. He's just a space pirate, not someone who would know more about the Imperial Fleet stats like Ars Dangor, Sate Pestage, or Grand Admiral Thrawn.

DArth Ninja, I take it you were Darth Heinous?

The point about Han is possibly true, though in the EU isn't it generally accepted that Han is ex-military? Certainly he sounds like someone who knows his tuff.

However, the idea that Han is in error is possible.

I always understood that Han's backstory was that he was a pilot in the Correlian military and dropped out. That was why he had the piped pants, they were military issue.

I know, this is all EU...

To be honest, most discussions on the Fleet Size will be EU, because it is not really discussed in the films. My main point is that Han's line in ANH may oput the mockers on some of the previously accepted figures.

In the the first novel Star Wars: From The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker, Han comments "The Empire couldn't destroy Alderaan. It would take more than a thousand ships with more firepower than has ever been invented." My guess is that Han was just trying to get the point across that to blow up a planet would require ALOT of power.

One other thing, I recovered from an illness that was supposed to be terminal. So now that I'm back, you can look forward to more cool EU related posts, especially on The Force, Jedi, Sith, Qui-Gon Jinn and the Mandalorian Warriors (most notably Boba Fett).

Well, some of those will certainly be problem areas...

But using 'a thousand ships' as an exaggeration is rather telling, isn'***?

One thing that puzzles me is when the beardy-Melin like guy (don't know his name, head hung in disgrace) gives the mission briefing in episode 4, he says that the Death Star posesses a firepower greater than half the starfleet. Does that mean the superlaser, or the surface turbolasers?

Good point. Difficult to be sure, really. Probably the best interpretation is that the DS is, overall, more dangerous than half the starfleet.

General Jan Dodonna was comparing the secondary weapons of the Death Star to the Alliance fleet, not the Imperial fleet.

In terms of the size of the fleet given that they are always producing new weapons and ships doesn't this infer that there can never be a set number in the fleet in the period of the films given there will always be more. For instance the Executor didn't turn up for 5 years. It was only after the ROJ that it is possible to have a semi set number and this will be presumeably depleating...

Actually, there's no accurate info on when the Executor turned up... it's all a bit misty right now...

If in EU territory then it was built at the beginning of Awareness of the Black Sun that led to Shadow of the Empire era which means about a year before ESB, As I think in the Encyclopedia it suggests they aided funding for it...

Fair enough, I suppose.

Previous things I heard about it being Vader's personal ship and being one of a kind are messed up by ROTJ, though.

I believe the Executor is Vaders personal ship and is unique in terms of having the equipment that gives him the home away from home, however much like the Enterprise in Star Trek, it may be the Fleets big Flag ship with extra bits and special crew but it is still a class of ship that can be rebuilt...

If it was Vader's ship he would have arrived on it at the start of ROTJ. It it was one of a kind, Han's line about ther being lots of command ships makes no sense either.

Darth Ninja/Merc you can gripe about it all you want, but EU is not relevant at all and it never will. You have the real SW saga, the movies, and then there is EU, fake SW.
Its like the painting of Mona Lisa if I continued and painted a beard on her. Will it still be as much worth or would I have destroyd it`s value.

EU IS NOT FAKE! GL approves of it. He just simply doesn't include it in the movies. In fact GL like the idea of Tom Veitch reviving Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine in Dark Empire 1, 2 and 3. Just because EU has NO effect on the movies (with the exception of the double-bladed lightsaber), DOES NOT MEAN IT'S FAKE!

EU is fake SW. GL is SW no other can even come close to his work. GL also aprove of the toys thet are made, do they count though. Think not. And by the way Dark Empire suck big time, what a load of crap and rubbish.

I truly appologise but then where then inherently lies the point in asking such questions without expecting non-authoratative but examined points of view that carry some perspective and have some potential validity in how they are done...

Huh? The point, as I say, is to debate the subject, but it's important to remember that the EU is no more inherently right than any independent opinion.

It's true, I'm afraid. That's how it works. It is official policy.

The EU are just stories BASED upon the Star Wars storyline, no more.

Though as I have said before, this point is mainly irrelevant. The only thing to remember is that EU sources are no good when trying to decipher Styar Wars facts.

As the films aren't much good for deciphering the size of the fleet either, please use as many EU sources here as you like, but they still only count as opinions.

IS DN really Merc? Wow. Hi there.

Thought not, actually, because Merc was surprised to see Queeq on NJO... UBH is unwell... Raz says he may be back in the future, depending onm how things go...

Darth Ninja is NOT Merc. He is Darth Heinous. What happened to Unknown Bounty Hunter.

I'm starting to think that maybe we're letting George off to easy with the "EU isn't canon" arguement. It doesn't seem right to me that he can totally ignore it but still make a load of money off it's sales. I think George as a social responsiblity to take it into account.

Absoluelt NOT, Dim. This isn't just GLs idea, you know, there are a whole host of corporate and conventional reasons why you NEVER let out your intellectual copyright when liscensing your product. It would be disatrious if you did... in any case, GL made it VERY CLEAR from the start that the books were official but not canon; in ay case, being canon would not change their status.

Star Wars IS GL's thing and no-one elses. That is the only way to preserve its integrity. Unless he writes the books, they cannot be considered part of the continuity.

And I say fair play to him. I know full well his feeling, and I also know how virtually impossible it would have been for him to not licence out his product.

People should appreciate the EU for what it is, and KNOW exactly what it is. Meanwhile, leave the actual story where it is.

I think that anything that the movies don't address is fair game for the EU. Pelleon clearly states in the 1st of the two Thrawn books that the Imperial fleet had dwindled to 200 Star Destroyers from a height of 25,000.

Sadly, though, it is NOT fair game, and that is policy. So any clear EU reference is not proof.

Anyway, I don't think Han's comment was proof of the 1,000 number. I think hge ment that it would be unheard of for 1,000 Star Destroyers to gather around one planet for an assault. Remember, in ROTJ there were between 20-30 Star Destroyers at Endor and it scared the heck out of the Rebels.

Now this is the sort of thing I wanted to SEE in this debate- interesting film points...

Yes indeed, and in the Radio Plays that was called a Sector fleet. Interesting...

Here is a quick number question:

How many posts till I can be a Jedi Knight? 250 again? I hope not... I already had around 150.

Um... check one of my posts in suggestions for the new numbers... ask Raz nicely there and he will see what he can do.

alrighty

Was the entire rebel fleet at the battle of Endor? It would make sense that they would divert all efforts towards that campaign, but there was a very small number of capital ships. I know the X-Wing Alliance game suggests that the entire fleet was there, but you can't trust games.

No you can't

There seem to be more ships than appeared earlier as the MF flees the DSII, but it still didn't look quite right, did it?

How the Imperial FLeet didn't smash them is beyond me, and SHOULD have been explained, rather than leaving everyone to come up with inadequate theories...

Not enough people care about space battles for GL to spend all his time on them. Besides, it was what was going on INSIDE the DSII that was more important.

I think that X-Wing Alliance did a fine job anyway.

AND, you can see in ROTJ that mnay of the Star Destroyers were way back behind the Executor. This was to prevent any ships from escaping.

And don't try to use the Interdictor excuse. They are purely EU material, no place for them here!!

Oh, yeah, because I was really about to use an EU point for my argument...

Yes, obvious what is inside the DSII was more important. Nonetheless, he brought that battle into the film, and it would have been nice to see it carried throuigh. Especially as what was going on inside the DSII could be made to seem entriely pointless, because even if Luke had failed the lot of them would have been blown up anyway. And there is NO convincing reason for the Imperials to not loose if the Emperor was present. The DSII was already doomed by the time he died.

So, is there any canonical way to define a sector? Not that I know of. But I would reckon that the Imperials would have made an enormous effort at Endor. 30 out of 25,000 seems really pathetic. One up for the smaller number, I think...

That's what bugs me about the battle of Endor. With Yavin, the Imps got cocky, and they didn't count on the extraordinary skill of Luke. With Endor, the Emperor himself was present, and from a space battling/ground battling point of view, none of the Rebels shone. Han, Lando and Wedge were good, but the Emperor's planning should have accounted for their likes. As for the rebels surviving so long against the imperial fleet for so long, I think the Emperor wanted to sadistically destroy all of the capital ships with the superlaser. Hence, the fleet didn't engage the rebels, they only took out the fighters ship to ship.

And we have to assume that the fleet just headed off afterwards, rather than crushing the Rebels as it could have done. These things really should be explained.

The Emperor's plan was pretty bad. It's a shame, really.

Just for the record, I am writing an actual Star Wars novel, taking place during the Vong Invasion, and just to clarify on your topic here...

By accessing Lucasfilm databanks I have discovered thus,

The SSDs were,

Executor (destroyed at endor)

Lusankya (destroyed at Thyferra/bacta war)

Iron Fist (destroyed over dathomir)

Intimidator/Pride of Yevitha (status unknown after return to imperial hands after black fleet crisis)

Terror (destroyed during the conflict with Grand Admiral Zarrin)

Guardian (status unknown)

Night Hammer (destroyed over yavin 4 w/Admiral Daala onboard)

and I think thats it.... did i miss any???? Please tell me if I did; it is important to my research.
Thanks,
Draxnair

oh, btw, the SSD Executor was completed at the Fondor yards a few months before the infamous battle of Yavin.

-drax-

i was under the impression the NJO was done with and all efforts would focus on the clone wars for a while...

no prob, never hurt to 're-open some old wounds', eh? If it was a problem my appolgies. just trying to clarify...

this is EU stuff so you all might as well stop it before it is permanently closed

well, fint, if you want a canon answer: big

Okay I'm going to delve deep into the first page, so I dunno if these were already answered.

Ushgarak, yes, the Lusankya was an EU SSD, but it was also a real SSD. It's sister ship WAS the Executor. It was simply named after it's class. There were well over 25,000 ISD's, 15,000 VSD, and around 5000 Interdictors, if I remember correctly. There were only 2 Eclipse-Class SSD, 4 Sovereign..2 Death Stars, and uncountable starfighters.

*checks forum again*
woops there gotwa, this is the movie-section of star wars, not the eu

OH MAN I THOUGHT THIS WAS XMEN

*gasps in horror*
wow! you are waaaaaaaay off than

I was kidding..

I was too of course

I think you're lying. =o

Good Lord, this was from a while ago...

Lol.

As I remember, I opened this because there was little being talked about at the time...

WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!START A TOPIC AND FINISH IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD

Isn't this board about the OT? What the hell does EU have to do with OT? EU is not even Lucas's idea of Star Wars. Why not Talk About Elliot and Reeses Pieces since ET was in Episode 1 and had his own movie too. Does that make it relevant? I don't think so. Why don't all you EU fans start your own board and leave the crap there where it belongs. This should be about REAL Star Wars info related to the movies.

actually, there is already a forum here for EU, and you can easily go into this matter without bringing EU
so, no need to scare people away here, though I do like your attitude about the EU

Who the hell do you think you are? The true star wars fan, priest of the Lucas religion? You could be less agressive. The thread is called "how big is the imperial fleet?" and since in the OT no-one says how big it is, we can only rely on EU to answer and discuss. This question is not a speculation of what be said in canon stuff because it will not be said and has not been said in the movies. EU is the only official star wars source that says how big the imperial fleet is, so we have to use it. Or otherwise their is no point in this thread and it should be closed or moved to the EU section.

actually we cant rely on Eu about anything in here, we dont know how big the imperial fleet is end of discussion.

I thought that in EU, the imperial fleet was not big at all, because I thought that it was completely destroyed in EU.

Correct me if i am wrong

it has to be huge to maintain power by force without a senate! at least 100 trillion trillion stormtroopers (GALAXY, remember?). not to mention millions of star destroyers and trillions of fighters etc. this is the #1 argument for cloned stormtroopers, unless palpatine's imperial motto is "humans! F**k like bunnies!!!"

i doubt that it could be that many in a single galaxy (100000000000000000000000000)

i doubt it could be less to maintain order on so many planets and stations and ships and cosmic routes

There are 25 000 star destroyers arcording to EU.
A few billion stormtroopers and I cant remember the rest.

yeah, that sounds like a more believable number

but i dpnt think it would be anywhere near 100000000000000000000000000

EU doesnt count here