Just fun with numbers...
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This is kind of weird, but...
If you take 6 (which is the number of Neo, he is anomaly 6), and you make that the base (as in base 2, base 6, base 10), and you convert 303 in Base 6 into base 10, it is 111, which is a "Trinity of Ones".
Also, 303 in base 4 is 051, which is first half of 051103, the date Revolutions comes out, but that is coincidence, right...? I can't figure out the 103 part, though i'm working on it...
You will find 3 is one of the most prominent numbers in both the first and second movie. Even in the Animatrix
Lets take the scene where Morpheus is describing what they plan to do to get Neo to the Source in the Lafayette Room (at least that is what room it looks like).
"When I see 3 objectives, 3 captains, 3 ships, I do not see coincidence...."
When it comes to the part where Morpheus ... errr Smith .... says Purpose at the end of that sentence, it shows the old Zion and 3 Sentinals.
3+3+3 = 9
3x3x3 = 27
2+7 = 9 or 7-2 = 5 5x27=135 so 1+3+5 = 9
27 - 9 = 18
1+8 = 9
Well I guess you get the picture - It goes on forever...
and who said maths is pointless
... not me! http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/whistling.gif
I hope you all saw the relevance of the number 27.
"We will need to take out the power to a whole city block to cut the power on a building like that"
"Not 1, 27"
That above tiny amount of math I just did is just for that scene. So errm, I really wouldn't like to do all 3 movies (3 again) - mainly because it would take too bloody long...LOL
HUH? Are you sure it's old Zion, where exactly on the screen is it? You have said this many of times and I haven't been able to find it on my BL version of Reloaded. Please tell Sifer.
Also, let's not forget there are always "3" Agents
Well it looks near identical to the top down shot of Zion near the beginning other than the fact that it's more broken down. It is at the part in Morpheus' speech where he says:
"I see providence, I see..." Smith's voice: "Purpose"
At that moment it shows 3 Sentinals and the old Zion behind them. I think you will agree if you see it
Damn, you are right!!!! Thanks mate
I'm not sure if i agree with you, and i'm not trying to be difficult. During this scene, there are, interspersed with the setup of the room with the Keymaker, clips that show the crews doing their jobs, but after the meeting is over. When i see the "Old Zion", as you put it, i'm not sure if it is meant to be an older version of Zion, or if it is a clip of the Sentinels, from the future, that foreshadows what is to come. Also, i don't think it is Smith that says Purpose, it sure sounds like Morpheus to me. It is possible that the pic is of a former Zion, but how do you explain how 24 humans are able to rebuild all that every 100 years? What happens to the Zion Mainframe? My only problem with that is the fact that they intersperse future events with the present events, so i don't think it is a clip from the present, but from the future.
I think it is this Zion, perhaps right before or sometime after the slaughter of the Zionites. It looks the same as when Morpheus says "goodnight, Zion".
If you watch carefull, I think you will agree that it is not the old Zion when the machines attack. Right before (or after, i cant remember) Neo acts as if he sees something, much like when the Agents arrive at the beginning of the movie. Thats why it's like his dream, he forshadows it, as Jedi put it
Errm that would not make the slightest bit of sense because those 3 Sentinals you see are the ones that destroy the Vigilant with Soren etc.
"They once used to be cities and old service tunnels"
Hrmm old cities eh? Sounds like it is more possible that it is an old Zion.
Also, as I said it cant be the Zion we know in the 2nd movie because there are pipes built over the sides to cover any entrances and things look more damaged, rustic etc. But the bridges remain intact.
you have no idea that those are the same three sentinels that destroy the Vigilant, and even if they are, that still doesn't mean that Zion is an old one. Besides, if the other "versions" of Zion are still there, don't you think SOMEBODY would have found at least one of them? And did you listen when i said there is a possiblity that it is foreshadowing of what is to come, by showing what is to come, albeit in a very short clip that most people don't pay attention to, unless they watch the movie a million times and stop every sec to look at the view. And just because It is said that the tunnels under the crust are remnants of old cities in no way means that those old cities are Zions, because i think the rebels are smart enough to realize if there is a city that look EXACTLY like Zion out in the world. No, it is not another Zion.
No, I DON'T know whether it is the exact same three Sentinals but considering VERY shortly after it showing the 3, it shows another 3 destroying the Vigilant.
I also don't think they would have found one (an older Zion) due to the fact that they are always hiding and running from the Sentinals so their access to certain parts are gonna be restricted. Even if they did find it, would they click on to the fact that its an old Zion? I highly doubt it. Their beliefs are that they are the first to be freed from the Matrix.
But you say at the end "No, it is not another Zion"
Well thats just kind of hypocritical to what you put at the beginning of your sentence accusing me of not knowing if it is or isn't. From the evidence and from the superior quality of the version I have, it looks almost identical to the main shaft in Zion, ESPECIALLY the formation of the walkways/bridges.
As you say though, it IS foreshadowing what is to come, because we also, at that point did NOT know that there were 5 Zion's before the one we know now. Not too long after it is shown, it introduces the Architect who then gives us the information relevant to what was shown, what has been done and what is possibly going to happen.
Also, back to numbers, go take a read of the Plotinus thread and read the link. The first few paragraphs explain some of the meaning of some of the numbers used in the Matrix and Matrix:Reloaded.
I think that if they see a city that looks exactly like Zion, they're gonna know it is Zion, or at the least, they will alert the council, and the other ships, so it could be investigated. Also, what are the chances that 24 different people are gonna build Zion in EXACTLY the same way? We have 6 BILLION people on earth, and no two people create anything in exactly the same way. and i was not being hypocritical, because i didn't say, excuse me, ACCUSE you of not knowing if it is Zion or isnt. I didn't say anything like that.
Also, isn't this contradictory to what you are saying:
"From the evidence and from the superior quality of the version I have, it looks almost identical to the main shaft in Zion, ESPECIALLY the formation of the walkways/bridges."
It seems to me that if it matches EXACTLY, but is built by different people who don't know of each other, and aren't using the same blueprints, then it is the SAME THING.
And i have read the Plotinus thread, considering i am the one who brought it back, and it says nothing at all that could be used to substantiate your claim, unless you are using it solely to refer to for the numbers, which i do not doubt you, and i understand that the numbers are important, otherwise i wouldn't have started this thread.
Nah, the reference to plotinus was not to back up my case. It was just to get back on topic. But the Zion thing - I don't actually think that the humans build Zion. Remember from The Animatrix how fast the Machines can build cities or buildings?
But "the purpose of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. then you will selct from the Matrix 23 individuals, 26 females, 7 males to REBUILD zion."
I know the machines can build cities amazingly fast, but i think the humans would realize something was up if they were watching a city be built by machines that they know nothing about, then watching those machines leave and learning that the machines want to kill them. Just makes sense to me...
Yes but could he be referring to rebuilding in the sense of 'population'? 16 female and 7 male isn't alot of people to build something the size of Zion.
Well I can't sleep so I decided to check the board. When Morpheus says providence, he then says:
"I see..." it switches to a view of 3 Sentinals over what appears to be an old Zion and the Sentinal sound kicks in just before "Purpose" is said. It does this on purpose (LOL :P) to hide who is really saying the word. It is Smith. I have listened to it countless times over and I can assure you it is Smith. (A good sound system helps
IF Possible, I will get an audio rip of it. I already have an mp3 of it but in low quality. I will try and rip it from the 5.1 soundtrack which is on the Retail DVD Rip I have. I will have to no doubt download some sort of open source ripping program - will update tomorrow when I get back from work.
(Jumps up and down in aggrevation)
But what scene is BEFORE that and which one is after? I keep switching over the scene where Neo asks Trinity to stay behind, The Keymaker telling them it's his purpose to "know", Neo rescuing Morph and the Keymaker from the roof of the truck and Niobe doing nifty kung-fu in the power-plant. It's around there somewhere, isn't it?
Yes, it is AFTER Neo has asked Trinity to stay out of the Matrix if I remember rightly:
"We did not come here by chance"
Is one of the first lines leading up to it.
Omega> It is when Morpheus is talking to Niobe and the other captain, right before the three ships go do their attack plan, to allow Neo into the source. it is about halfway through the third part, i don't know time. I think that right before it is the highway scene, but im not sure.
Sifer> It is possible that Archie was referring to rebuilding the population, but Archie is very VERY meticulous in his speech. so i think he would have used another word were he speaking of procreating, like recreate or propagate. Also, were he talking of procreating, dont you think 2 females for 7 males is really conservative? Theoretically, one guy and 23 females would be enough to "rebuild" Zion, and he would have plenty of time to himself, if he needed it. Besides, wouldn't it be more economical for machines if they were just to reuse the previous Zion, or tear it down so the new Zion could be rebuilt from the old parts? If the machines are the builders of Zion, then the pieces should last for far longer than one hundred years. Besides, if he is trying to cut down on the amount of people who do not accept the Matrix, then sending only 24 would make them unable to spend much time, if any at all, in the Matrix, disrupting the progress of the Machines. It would take, maybe 30 years, conservatively, to procreate and free enough people to finish Zion, and the "children of Zion" would be more populous than the people that were freed. So, i dont think they are talking about procreating, solely. Yes, there will be children born, probably alot, but there would be no aim for the men if procreation was their only goal. the Machines would want to put the rebels out of business for a long time; they know they will be back, but if they can hold them off for as long as possible, then they would be able to spend their time much more efficiently, the machines, i mean.
Argh! My DivX player is giving mne grief, I'll end up with a Smith hairdo soon!
JediHDM> Oh, I know the general location of the scene in question. But my player gets over-buffered when I keep moving back and forth over the movie (along with me getting stuck just to see THAT scene again
I just want to heard if Smith is really saying "Purpose."
I say he isn't but Sifer is stuck on the fact that he is. But he has 5.1 and i've just got computer speakers, so maybe he is right, about that...
I have played it over and over VERY VERY loud and I can say without any doubt, it is Smith. Even my friends didn't think it was his voice at first until I turned the volume up and took away the picture (visuals also help in the deception
Okay, I CAN plug my comp into my Hi-Fi system, and a little later I'll try to play that part of Reloaded again, to find the scene in question.
For now it's back to work (Peers over shoulder).
i don't understand why at that particular moment they would change morpheus's voice to smith's, to just say purpose, because he said it earlier... it must have been an editing mistake, it doesn't make any sense to the story.
Why doesn't it make any sense. There isn't a chance it is an editing error. Not something that big. At the time it does it, it shows 3 Sentinels.
Now what is a Sentinels purpose? Search & Destroy.
What is Smith's purpose? Search & Destroy
There is more to it though
also when morph/smith says purpose, its not old zion or this zion with the squiddys in. its the sewers and those are pipe things not bridges (you can see them in etm) check out the patches of natural light streaming in
must be the squiddys finding the vigilante
ETM has different videos than Reloaded.
no when your in the logos you see a load of those pipes in the sewers
Um, those aren't pipes... and that is not natural light, those are the "night lights" set up by ZIon so people can see at night...Hose aren't sewers, even i will agree with Sifer hat it is Zion, just which Zion is what we argue about...
(couldnt get a very good etm screenshot to back me up)
i'm looking, and i'm seeing the top pic(Zion) and the bottom pic(sentinels)looks the SAME... What does that prove?
it doesnt look the same at all
It does to me. Even on the original Zion picture (top) has the pipes going down the wall the same. Look at the bottom of the top picture to know what I mean
The walls on the shot from the game are made from rock.
the bridges in zion are all parallel across the diameter but in the sewer its just a mismatch of cylindrical pipe things
also note that its between shots of the vigilante and 3 squiddys bombing it, among others, remember all the other shots are about the mission
yeh its not the same bit of the sewer in the game and its 'unchartered'
i was showing you the pipes
they must be big squiddys to fit across the radius of zion central (not perspective)
Well, even if it isn't Zion (and i'm not agreeing to that) then it still isn't just Pipes and Sewers, the walls are not rock, they are manufactured. Perhaps it is 01?! Perhaps it is just part of the machines design?
'they used to be cities that spanned hundreds of miles. now these sewers are all thats left of them'
im really sorry about all these posts!!
this is zion under attack:
but the inside of sewers do not look mechanical, they are smooth, relatively. the inside of (whatever) looks like it has pipes and wires, etc. along it
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