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Niobe: ”Then Neo is still alive?”
Oracle: ”Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.”

What exactly does the Oracle mean by this? Between?
Does this have anything to do with the Mobile Ave subway station?
The Oracle doesn’t say Neo is trapped IN the Matrix. It could, of course mean, that Neos mind is in the Matrix, and his body is in the real world (my assumption this far), but could there be another explanation?

Maybe he is in another level of the Matrix?
Maybe there is a level of the Matrix where the Matrix is designed, built and then posted? Like your desktop at home. If you make a program, you build it on your desktop then load it up to the net. The net could be the Matrix.

??maybe??

What do you think?

Maybe it is like the levels of afterlife, in mythology. So far, we have only seen two levels, but there might be a level between the two, that we have yet to see, which may be where the programs go whili reload.

Sorry to bother you guys with this, BUT, how can I post an image with my name like you guys do?

I love it. It gives you an identity.

click your name, then go to profile, and you can change your status, pic, location, etc...

go in profile > upload custom sig image

dam! ive been beaten AGAIn!

you posted RIGHT after me...
Im sorry, if it helps...

yeh it was my bad http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/whip.gif

and if you didnt know already- if you want an avatar (a pic on the side)
go in profile > edit options > change avatar
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/doctor.gif

Thanks for your help guys. I hope it all works.

Do you think Omega will kill for talking about this in her post?

no, omega will understand...
Now, back to the topic.

Maybe it is like the levels of afterlife, in mythology. So far, we have only seen two levels, but there might be a level between the two, that we have yet to see, which may be where the programs go while reload.

Have you ever read "The Inferno". I have not, but maybe there is some answers there. I think it's about the different levels of hell.

I may look this up.

you mean inferno/hell by dante?

That's the one.

Have you read it? If we can find out how many levels of hell there are, then maybe we can figure out if there are other levels to the matrix. As we have referred to the matrix as Hell in the past, maybe we can do it again?

you mean club hel (sp?) is like another level of hell within the hell that is the matrix?

there are 9 levels of hell in inferno by the way.

Found this:

The Structure of Dante's Inferno

The sinners in the nine circles of hell are guilty of one of three types of sin:

Incontinence: Evil action arises from losing control of natural appetites and desires
Brutishness: Evil action arises from attraction to things which repulse the healthy soul
Malice / Vice: Evil action arises from abuse of reason, a human's most god-like quality

Nine Circles — A possible nine levels of the Matrix

I may be straying of course. Input please.

Possibly another level within a level. So can there be a level of the Matrix outside of the Matrix? A place where programs get "Reloaded" or even "Rewritten".

hmmmm.....

These new trailers that have been revealed are very VERY interesting. There’s the spot where Smith seems to fade into view from a kind of coded golden “noise”, the picture of Neo being attacked by a similarly golden sentinel looking-machine. AND the image of what looks like Neo standing in front of a massive blueish machine that rises.

The one of Smith SEEMS to be Neo looking at Bane in the “real” world and realising/seeing that it is Smith. The Sentinel one doesn’t seem to be neither in the Matrix NOR in the real world. Someone suggested a kind of “desk-top” or design-place. Is that THE SOURCE? And why is the light golden just like we see Seraph when Neo meets him in Reloaded?

But from these trailers Neo doesn’t seem to get blind until later on in the movie?!?!
The confusion is not complete

and theres this

its either the stuff or i think i see a collar (smith)

The look of Seraph/coded(Reloaded) compared to Smith/Bane coded(revolutions)..look different..go watch Seraph..Hes glowing with a nice bright light whereas Smith is more like hes on fire,is fire, or whatever...

it reminds me of the scattered code in neos trinity dream

seraph

had to bust out the dvd again for that..i mean..never mind

bjn74> but if that pic of Bane/smith is from the REAL world, then yes, they are gonna look different, because (assuming the REAL world is just another program) Neo cant tell Zion is program until he stops the sentinel, meaning the coding is different than Matrix coding. So, yes, they are gonna, by necessity, look different, although why they both glow is the real question...

maybe because their from the original version of the matrix..or maybe the more powerful programs glow,,while regular programs(smith and his 2 agent buddies in the hall shooting at neo at the end of matrix 1
dont..who knows..and they probably wont even directly answer that question when it comes out

theres not many questions they directly answer, most are "weve given you the clues, now figure it out", thats probably what they'll do, but with more information this time...

i thought there were 7? ahh nevermind, i think i'm confusing this with hinduism

I would have to agree.

From the" enemy" tv spot we see Neo and Trinity about to take off to go to 01(Or where ever they are going). At this point Neo can still see. Looking at the trailer it seems that bane was hiding on the ship and, was found my Neo (Or made himself know to Neo). They have a brief conversation. It is at this point that Neo finds out that Bane is really Smith made flesh. Bane and Neo fight, and Neo is blined by bane. Shortly after Neo wins the fight and goes back to sit with Trinity in the cock-pit. I don't know where Neo gets the red blindfold, but he has it on at this point.

Now If you look at the "control" tv spot you will see Neo standing before a huge blue machine (The one that tell Neo to speak). It looks like after the ship crashed (if it crashed) Neo made his way to the machine on his own. I think this trailer contradicts some of the spoilers out there stating that Neo was badly hurt from the crash and was captured by the machines.

If you Notice Neo is standing there in front of the "speak" machine with his red blindfold on. This tells me that he is not jacked into the matrix, like the spoiler would suggest . As I stated before it shows Neo standing, so the spoiler were wrong about Neo getting hurt. For if he was really hurt from the "crash" would he be standing having a conversation with the "speak" machine in the real world? I think not. Plus If he was captured by the machines, wouldn't there be sentinel guards there beside Neo (or somewhere around)? If you look at the "power" tv spot it looks like Neo made it to the "Speak" machine on his own. It shows Neo walking alone towards to Yellow light.

Even thought Neo is blind that does not mean he is helpless. If you look at the "future" tv spot you will see Neo on the ship taking out the sentinels like he did at the end of Reloaded.

IMO I dont think the ship crashed at all. If you look at thet "power" tv spot you will see Trinity closing the hatch of her ship while a sentinel is about to land on her. I think she was hiding from them while Neo was going to the "Speak" machine.

Looking at it from a chronological point of view. Neo and trinity are sitting in the cock-pit having a converstation (when he could see), where Trinity says "it you tell me we have to make it, them well make it".
It seems that they were taking their good ole time in taking off. In other words they were not in a rush. This has to be the begining, because Neo could see.

We all know Neo gets blined by Bane yada yada yada, thats the second part.

They have another conversation while on the way to "where ever they are going". Neo again is talking to Trinity stating that they have to make it there. Imo I think Neo may have stated to her to hide while he goes to 01. He could have stopped the sentinels from attacking the ship, which gave trinity time to land and hide the ship.

After Neo was gone I think she may have left the ship (for what ever reason) and was spotted by the sentinels. Having been seen she had to make a mad dash back to her ship (thats where we see her closing the hatch in the "power" tv spot. If the ship had an EMP, she may have used it, who knows.

*** This whole post in nothing more that simple speculation. ***

I'm really glad these new trailers have come to light, because it puts to rest some of these spoilers out there. Plus it also opens up the ablilty to have a broader conversation about the Matrix, and to see how deep the rabbit hole really goes.

I think i know why smith and seraph glow gold. Or a idea. perhaps what happened to neo and trapped his mind in the matrix happened to seraph, yet he wasn't freed. Maybe he's the 5th One. And since he was flesh first, then changed his code went gold. And thats why smiths is gold, now he has changed and is flesh now. Iunno. I need to expand it, but you get what i mean

Whoa there partner. What if theres a different reason he's wearing his blindfold. Think about it. Why would he cover his eyes when they take off... think hard people

Why don't you just tell me?

As for covering his eyes, if you reread my last post. It would seem that Neo was fine before they took off to go to 01 (Or where ever they were going). We are lead to believe that Neo was injured by Bane after their encounter on the ship. If you have information that says other wise, plz share it with the group.

Also the "yada yada yada" was the 2nd part of a short chronological look at what could have happened before, during, and after their trip to 01.

As I said before it is all speculation. None of this is etched in stone.

Are you maybe saying: Because agents can see what we see. They can see through anything still hooked to the matrix. Therefore, Neo still being strongly connected to the Matrix, could get them in trouble because they'd see what he's up to! Hence, Blindfold.

Morpheus: That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see? Business people, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy.

and...

Morpheus: Sentient programs. They can move in and out of any software still hard-wired to their system. That means that anyone we haven't unplugged is potentially an agent.

Now I do not say this to suggest that an agent may enter into Neo's body. Heck no. But we all know they can see through the eyes of everyone connected with the system.

Dude I have no idea if that's what you're driving at but I must admit, now that I've said it, it sounds kinda cool! And if you thought of this, then Good thinking! Way to figure something out of nothing.

Wow, I really got on a roll and ran away with that one. I think I'ma take a nap now.

Please let us know what You really thought.

SimplePriest are you taking to me or addressing Icon?

*** I'm guessing Icon. Right? ***

I believe, and im not sure if im the minority, that Bane tries to stab Neo again, and succeeds, which allows the virus in Banes body to travel into Neo. Neo kills the virus, but it blinds him. As for an Agent seeing through Neo's eyes, or anyone elses that is free, that is impossible. Notice they said "hardwired". This is only the people that do not know the truth, and are therefore ignorant in thier little "wombs".

Is it not possible that the Orange glow see overlaying Bane is in fact what Neo sees in the Real World? He goes above the clouds, its too intense, his eyes bleed

Probably a load of rubbish but who cares.

Evolution!

So who in here actually thinks there is a crash and Trinity Dies?

Sorry -=Urot=-, I was addressing Icon.

JediHDM> Yeah, I understand what you mean on the hardwire part. What I was implying (and I was Really grasping at straws here) is how Neo is connected with the matrix (regarding the sentinel frying thing in M2). Maybe that connection was two way, and he wasn't hardwired, but remote wired. Wow, this sounds worse and worse the more I explain it. Anyways, that's what I Was saying. I thought that might be what Icon was getting at. :-p

Oh, maybe thats why i didnt get what you were saying, because i believe the MWAM theory, and not that Neo uses his Mind in the Matrix to stop the Sentinels...

Np. Just don't let it happen again.

Urot> No, there probably IS no crash. The crash-thing that kills Trinity is in one of the gigazillion spoiler-theories. She will, most likely, survive (Look at the end of “The Matrix”. It was made to stand on it’s own, before anyone thought of making sequels. The main-chars do not die, hence I don’t think they will in Revolutions either).

SimplePriest> i think we’re following the same line of reasoning. In another thread I just posted what I think happened to Neo. He down-loaded a copy of (part of) the Source. The sentinels quite obviously move follow orders by remote control, so…

How about this............... Remember Neo failing his first jump and getting a bloody mouth Morpheus says 'the mind makes it real' as Neo is the one, maybe his mind in the real world is making his abilities within the matrix real........if u know what i mean?

RenegadePunk> That requires that the real world be a program, a "dream-world".

Going back to Smith/Seraph being golden:

Maybe it's because they are both rogue programs. Maybe ALL rouge programs are coded in gold rather than green.

hmmmmmm?????

maaaaaaaaaybe because Neo is somewhat in both worlds. And if he blindfolds himself in the real world, it allows his "digital self" to be free inside the matrix. Like how the oracle said he touched the source. We see Neo destroy a field of sent. bombs with his hand, much like how he stops bullets. Perhaps he's stopping them from inside the matrix, and he cannot see with his eyes or he will not fully believe.

Teunis Not all rouge programs glow. The twins and the Mero didn't. Nor did the oracle. Or maybe... Maybe they do! Come to think of it, it never shows a rouge program other than Seraph... odd?

what about the blood stain that's near his eyes?

From evidence thus far he is blinded by possibly 3 things:

Lighting Gun which Bane fires at him causing an explosion next to Neo who is crouching on the floor.

Going above the clouds, looking directly into the Sun, eyes bleed cause he has never seen anything that bright before.

The weird orange glow overlay which is over Smith/Bane is actually how Neo see's within the Real World (Evolution) and thus needs to be covered.

But something has definately cause blood to spill from his eyes

yes we've only actually seen the programing for:
Agents - Green
Neo - Green
Trinity - Green
Seraph - Orange
Now I was thinking based on the new trailers, we see Bane, and an orange Smith which allows Neo to see Bane = Smith, Now what if the orange glow is that of an exiled program. We see a 'light' sentinal (that's what i'm cslling it) Now in the matrix Neo sees the programing of the Matrix, what if when we see the sentinal glowing orange, we are seeing the program, like Neo saw the programing for Bane-Smith

But wouldn't Trinity be blinded too?

i think that it is because of his fight with Bane...thats what causes his face around his eyes to be red...

----Program colors----
Other than Seraph, we have not seen the code color of any rogue programs. However, remember Neo reacted to Seraph’s color as being something new when he first met him. This would lead me to believe that at least in Reloaded Smith was still green (like Trinity, and everyone else). Cannot say the same for the Mergovian, Architect, etc. My guess is the color has more to do with what kind of program (whether rogue or not and how powerful they have become). Thus, as Smith grows in power, his color changes and becomes brighter and brighter?

Yeah i think its the emp gun fight too

Sifer stated > But something has definately cause blood to spill from his eyes

Where do you see that? I didn’t get to download the trailers/commercials (if you want to send them to tshirt76@hotmail.com I’d love to watch them). Having Neo go blind could happen, but it could be that the source or speaking machine or Smith can see through his eyes just as Neo can control the Sentinals and do other things (basically it is becoming a two way connection) Thus, the blindfold would benefit him. Alternatively, if he can see in both worlds, this might be confusing and then he needs the blindfold.

But remember he saw Seraph before he saw Smith

but if you are talking to something in the real world (aka SPEAK machine) and you are seeing an empty street in Matrix, then your brain will get confused, so i dont think that is the explanation. Perhaps Neo puts on the blindfold as a symbolic gesture, that he cannot see whom he is speaking to, and therefore will have no pre-concieved ideas/biases to view the world. I think, that by thi point in time, Neo has already reunited his mind and body in ZIon with his Mind in Matrix.

Diverging...What if, NEO sacrifices himself to the SOURCE, in order to give it the power to stop SMITH, but, by doing this, he is reinserted into the matrix as a sort of program, and this is why Trinis so surprised/awed to see him? What if, Neo is still in the coma, Trin talks to Oracle, goes to Mero, and sees Neo, his mind, knowing that he is not jacked in...? there are many possibilities to this, we know too little at this point...

This would not surprise me. As would Trinty and others dying. (Sorry Omega). The Wacho bros. have repeatedly been quoted as saying the first movie is about birth, the second movie is about life and the third movie is about death.

So, expect death in the last movie. Death to Neo. Death to the Matrix. Death to Trinity. Death to Morpheus. Death to many others.

but by death it does not necessarily mean death, as in you are dead, you cannot come back. We constantly see death in the matrix, which is really the birth (or rebirth, whichever way you think of it) of the person, to a higher level, ascendancy. just because the w-ski bros say revolutions is about death, doesn't mean everyone dies. perhaps it refers to the death of the system, the death of zenophobia (for lack of a better word), the death of closed-mindedness, for only those who are willing, and break out of the box, are able to transcend. It is like Jesus, you must die of the flesh, to live of the spirit...

Transformeeeeeeers, ROBOTS IN DISGUISE

Speak machine = Unicron (Quite an uncanny resemblence in both appearance and voice)

"I will become One with The Matrix" - Famous words of Optimus Prime at his deathbed.

Don't forget - Transformers was probably the most influential anime series in the 80s. Keep those noddles bakin' till they're just right

what are you saying? that the SPEAK machine is not a part of the matrix, or that neo must become one with the source to beat Smith?

Tshirt> Yes, but death does not necessarily mean, that it is physical dying. If M1 was about birth, why does Neo die? What was, really, “born” in M1. The One way. Death is a symbolic figure of transformation, of change – of revolution. The One may very well die in Revolutions. Neo doesn’t have to do that.

As for the blindfold.
From the trailers it seems (a cautious seem, we don’t know the chronology of things yet), that Neo, when he wakes up, does so without the blindfold. So after Trinity and co rescues him from the evil clutches of the Merovingian he can see.
I think that the anomaly code which Neo carries (“… the process has altered your conscience…” –The Architect) has evolved. There was no stopping sentinels in the real world, until AFTER Neo has touched the Source (or his mind, as the Oracle says). The anomaly doesn’t go away, just because Neo isn’t hooked up to the Matrix. Just like Smith has infected the bioelectrical signals of Banes brain, the anomaly is present in Neo all the time.
We know, from the Architect, that the anomaly can cause fluctuations in all programs in the Matrix. Sure, there’s some hardware keeping the Matrix program running, but when Neo visited the Architect, he came in contact with the Matrix representation of the machine main-frame. The Source. He’s caused fluctuations in that, too, now. And just as the operators on the hovercrafts are in contact with our heroes through wireless, that’s the (pardon the pun) source of Neo’s sudden abilities in the real world. He can stop machines, through the fluctuation he’s caused in the software of the Source, and see that the bioelectrical signals of Bane is that of Smith. Unfortunately he can’t switch this ability off.
He constantly sees THROUGH the Matrix, inside the Matrix. Hence the blindfold.
He’s injured when he talks to the SPEAK-machine, but it would look as if something attacks him. Maybe Smith infected a sentinel – that wouldn’t be impossible, hence the golden/fiery light we see.
And hence the reason why The One must die. Otherwise Neo will be condemned to a life wearing a blindfold. Neo can still survive, but he must sacrifice the anomaly, his digital self.

Neo is most likely trapped somewhere in Club Hell. The Oracle tells Niobe in ETM that Neo is trapped between this world and yours, and only Trinity can save him, but she'll have to fight through HELL to do it.