Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Its bad res ........ but he really isnt that bad. I cant wait!!

http://www.code-matrix.net/revo2.wmv

where did they...?

Yeah right Zion is real

Indeed it is

In case none of you have noticed, there is a small shot where the Logos goes above the clouds and back down into them. You see the blue sky and clouds the black below

Wonder if THAT is how Neo gets blinded, probably not.

http://home.comcast.net/~neo_zen/2823_theend_m.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~neo_zen/2823_help_m.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~neo_zen/2823_power_m.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~neo_zen/2823_future_m.mpg
http://home.comcast.net/~neo_zen/2823_control_m.mpg

There ya go guys. Some of the Visual FX shots aren't obviously finished but I will say 2 things:

Smith can fly
Big ****in machine thing!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG

Watch and be blown away.

links dont work

I was joking there is a shot in it where a sintenel turns that light color and goes right in him..Zion is fake and now its falling apart hahaha

I think hes blindfolded to

<<blown away.damn!

yes im soo relieved now
AMAZING!
where were these actualy shown

HooT, just because something like that happens you think Zion isn't real? That's lame!

http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14813

go there, its a guy talking about the new trailer...

Hoot> Your link just tosses me onto some front-page. Where on said page should I click for enlightenment?

Everything else in the trailers STILL seem to show A real world and A Matrix. There just seems to be a third place. If we could only explain how Neo stopped the Sentinels at the end of Reloaded (without resorting to more matrices)…

it should open a download window, (are you sure you typed it in right?).

Also, maybe there are "levels" of real and Matrix, not necessarily all program, but enmeshing of the two.that would allow program-like reactions in a very near real world. Like the levels of Hades in greek mythology, there are also levels of "Hell".

I am so happy with these new trailer, I don't know what to do with myself.

Urot> DO like everyone else. Discuss and revise theories and ideas!

JediHDM> Yes! Some kind of INTERFACE. Someone else suggested a simulation, or a design-platform. If we’re hundreds of years into the future, who knows what the machines have been able to invent? If the sky seems blue on some shots maybe the sky isn’t even scorched so badly anymore, either, btw. (Although: Some of the shots in the new trailers are clearly not done yet, you see sentinel rough-animations etc., so… Ah, well. I have to log off for tonight. Everyone: THINK! )

perhaps (assuming Zion=program) the sky is clearing up because it is no longer necessary for the sky to be scorched, ie the programming was meant only to las until the One reaches Source and Zion=dead.

Perhaps they've flown above the scorching.

My question would be if the skies are nice and bright above the scorching, why didn't the machines just send up satelites to beam energy back to the planet? I wonder was this what the Architech ment when he said "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" in his conversation with Neo?

Also if they had the humans beaten why didn't the machines just find a way to unscorch the skies?? They had the whole human history in their database. Why didn't they just access the files dealing with Operation Dark Storm?

Sifer, Omega, and JediHDM.

Did you guys receive info about the possible ending of Revolution from Standstil? If you did Hit me up in private mail. Cuz I don't want to spoil it for anyone if it turns out to be real.

Oh and don't forget to anwser my question about "Operation Dark Storm" in this thread.

Everyone> No, we did not recieve info about the ending. I can say this with assertiveness, b/c i have been talking to standstill and, i am just going to tell it. AlteredFate is her friend, and told her that he had seen the Matrix 3. She, by some way or another, happened up here, and said, mistakenly, that she had seen M3, rather than "knows of" M3. Thus, it was her fault, for poor choice of words, but she was also misinformed, and AlteredFate has already apologized in this forum for his actions. Everyone, just forget about standstill, b/c she will no longer be returning to this forum, partly b/c of the "attention" that was recieved by certain individuals (whom i will not name at this time). And, i do not want to hear ANYTHING about her being a coward, or a lier. ANYTHING.

Urot> Now, about Operation DARK STORM. I dont think they have "all" of human history in thier databanks, i think they have the history that was given to them, ie history books, writings, etc. They would not know how Operation DARK STORM happened, if the documents were classified, and then destroyed when the machines started attacking.

If you ascribe to the MWTM theory, then, the sky scorching is just another program, another form of control, control of Humans, so that they do not just build Zion anywhere, on ground, rather than in predetermined underground Zion place.

The Wachowskis would NOT have gone through all the trouble to give us all the history to the Matrix and how it was built etc and then shove that all on its head so it is meaningless. Zion is Zion, which is real. No other multiple levels etc, just the Real World.

Ok...

this just gets more anmd more exciting!!

JediHDM> Thanks for the info about Standstil, cuz I was wondering how authentic her version of M3 was. It was just to freaky to be the truth.

Sifer> After seeing the new trailers I don't think that there is a MWTM.
If you read my other post about Neo making it to the "Speak" machine on his own. He had on the red blindfold, and as I stated before that let me know that the "real world" is the "Real World". Not another level of the Matrix.

Two things about the new trailers:
1) First is that Neo realizes that Human and Machine must work together to have a future,
2) Anyone notice that Neo and Smith are so powerful that when they hit each other, it sends shockwaves out, powerful enough to push the rain BACK in a huge wave?

OMG!!!!!!!!! These are GREAT! I watched "The End" like 40 times....it's sad

it wouldn't download for me, it was just a big black picture with two moving black squares for two seconds then it finished, ne1 got ne pics?

you can right click and click "save to..." and download it, instead of opening it.

meh. i want 2 c some pics 1st

JediHDM> Hehehe... I noticed too. All I can say is, "Well, there you have it."

Urot> Why are you sure there is no MWTM now? Not to say I have a different opinion, but I was just wondering why you have yours. Couldn't Neo still be in another matrix, even though he seems injured? I don't know why I'm asking. I guess I'm just curious because people ask me to defend my arguement all the time. I was wondering what you guys have as evidence. Maybe I can present it to these folks.

JediHDM (again) > Where do you stand (I gather you believe in MWTM) and do these new trailers change that?

SimplePriest> No, these trailers enhance, IMO, my idea/theory; MWTM. When i see Bane turn into Smith right before Neo, i see proof. When i see Neo stopping entire swarms of squidy bombs with his mind, i see proof. When i see a squisy flying through/into Neo, i see proof. Quite simply, i believe that the Zion world, henceforth ZION, is a programmed reality, given to those who do not accept the Matrix programming. "What is ? Control. is a computer generated Dream-world, built to keep us under control"

I don't think Bane turns into Smith persay. what he says to Neo is "Look past the Flesh to see your Enemy" And what I got from that was that Neo saw his code. Not Bane turning/changing/morphing into Smith.

JediHDM> hmmm. Would you feel duped if it turned out to be another explanation > he is connected with the matrix even if he's not in it. He has really become The One, and can change things as he sees fit (blow squiddy bombs up, stop squiddies in their tracks).

Basically, does your idea make so much sense to you that no other ideas would make sense, OR it would seem like a cheap cop out. (I'm only asking because for a long while I felt that way about the MWAM theory). BTW I asked you specifically because you seem to explain your arguments well, and you seem like you have given them a lot of thought.

SimplePriest> The point of the ONE was that he could change the PROGRAMMING of the Matrix, no just use telepathy. If the Wachowski brothers do not go the way i see it, but they do it better than i have thought the MWAM theory out, then i will think, man these guys are geniuses. However, if it is poorly thoughtout, (which seems to be the general explanation of the reverse), then yes, i will be disappointed. However, i do not think the Wachowskis able to think simply, so i believe i will be amazed either way. Also, thank you, i try my best to explain myself in such a way as to "convert the masses".

VenomVA> We have seen two clips, one is where Bane says "Look past the flesh to see your enemy"and turns into the fiery,glowing Smith , and the other is the Fiery, glowing-code Smith turning into SMITH persona. My mind sees these two clips and thinks, well, the first looks like it is the first part of the second, and i put them together. Therefore, i think Neo looks at BAne, sees the code of Smith, which then in turn Materializes into Smith.

JediHDM> "Seems like every time we meet I've got nothing but . I'm sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me."

SimplePriest> "Thank you"

(Every time i think of this, it changes the way i think, so i may change my mind, but i thought of this, so i am posting) When Neo and Trin are flying (supposedly towards 01), Neo puts the blindfold on, but it appears that he can see Trin, meaning he has not been blinded by Bane (as of yet) But when Neo talks to the "SPEAK"-machine, he looks like his face has been scarred/bruised (his face around the eyes, it is red). This means either it is not Bane who causes him to go blind(if he does indeed go blind) or that Neo goes blind on the way to 01, after beating the squidy bombs. This new information changes my format of thought, but the thought is still there, until new info. discredits it.

can someone give me a direct link to the BRAND NEW TRAILOR that everyone is talking about. a direct link meaning a link right to the download of the trailor. that would be great if someone could do that. thanks.

JediHDM> Well, if standstill never saw the M3, and said that she did, that IS lying. Not to be a pain or anything, but it is. But let’s just leave that behind us for now, and yet another weekly “I know it all”. You guys and gals out here DO know we’ll get even more now, when there’s only 50 days left, right?
Be vigilant!

I’ve watched the new trailers backwards and forwards, and from side to side (well, ok, not the latter). I already said we should take them with a grain of salt. Some of the scenes are clearly NOT done yet, but are raw animation sketches.
So the blue sky behind the Logos: Well, let’s just wait and see. However, it may be, that after hundreds of years, the scorching went away? Or did that in SOME places? It doesn’t look as if the Logos is above some blackened level of the atmosphere, but we shouldn’t discount that idea altogether.

The biggest “noodle-baker” is the image where Neo seems to “SEE” that Smith is hiding in Bane through that golden light, and the scene where golden-looking tentacles lash out at a blindfolded Neo.
Something struck me, that we haven’t discussed before. It could be a solution. I adhere to Zion being real, so Neo stopping the sentinels has been the biggest mystery for me since May. With the new trailers we see, really see, Neo stopping more sentinels while he’s blindfolded. And he’s obviously able to SEE machine-code in the real world. HOW is that possible? And WHY is he blindfolded when confronting the SPEAK-machine?
We’ve eliminated countless options, so in Sherlock Holmes style, what is left, however improbable, must be the truth. Neo somehow downloaded a copy of the Source. Or parts of it.

Before you discount it, consider this: Smith downloaded a copy of himself into Bane. Bane was NOT the One. Now imagine what you could download into the MIND of the One. Essentially a part of the Matrix has been IN Neo since M1, namely the anomaly code. It doesn’t go away just because he disconnects from the Matrix, because WHERE would it go. Look at what exactly Neo DID when he flew from the building leading to the Architect to catch Trinity, and what he was able to do.

Neo now has double-vision, hence the blindfold. And that is why he can see the machine code in Bane.

Omega> i agree that if we discount all other possibilities, then the last one must be true, but all other possibilities have NOT been discounted, and we dont know if the one that is left is the only one that is left. I still have not recieved valid proof for why the MWAM theory is invalid.

Omega I love you.

You basicly summed up what I was going to say to SimplePriest as to why I changed my mind about the MWIAM Theory.

What comes to my mind is what The Arc said at the begining of there conversation.

How does that have anything to do with the MWAM theory? just because Neo's attained a conciousness higher than that of his friends, means there is no MWAM? WHAT?! I wish people would explain their reasoning, because i STILL have yet to hear justifiable evidence as to why the MWAM theory is wrong, or your theory is more "correct" than mine...

Urot>

JediHDM> I can’t prove that the MWTM theory is wrong altogether. But I can argue for the real world being real in the following way:

1) What originally made half the Reloaded watchers go “Goodness, there has to be another Matrix!”? (I know I did.) Neo stopped the Sentinels like they were bullets. They simply short-circuited and crashed. The Source-download, this altered conscience, can explain that.
2) Smith downloaded into Bane. Our brains work through bio-chemical electricity. People have been know to have drastically altered their psyche after a strong electrical shock. So Smith infected Banes digital self, and when this digital self was down-loaded BACK into Bane, the electrical signals were controlled by Bane.
3) Neo stops even more sentinels in the new trailer. Same as 1.

After countless discussion one argument changed my mind. A matrix within the matrix would be TOO easy an explanation. The Wachoski-brothers have, up until now, adhered to classic storytelling, a hero, a quest, a heroine, a fate-teller, helpers, an enemy, obstacles etc. etc etc. All they’ve done is to twist the environment. Finally: The real world being virtual is too big of a concept to introduce in a conclusion. Conclusions tie up loose ends, make the big sweep to answer all questions, and END the story. If the MWtM is true, Revolutions will have to be four hours long.
First Morpheus and Trinity have to find the Logos. The Hammer will probably do that, and Trinity/Morph goes to the Oracle, who sends Seraph with them to club Hel to free Neo. The Observer/Spectator makes an appearance (although I still haven’t figured out his role in all of this). Neos digital self is transferred back to his body, and the machines and Bane attack.
Trin/Neo fly to (presumably) 01 to try and make peace with the machines (“If you say everything will be okay I’ll trust you.” “I can’t help but feel that you’re not coming back.” “I’m scared”.) Neo enters 01 in the real world and is attacked by the machines, but reaches the big SPEAK-machine. War breaks out, and Neo fights Smith.
And THEN, to top that off, we need to sort the Matrix within the Matrix out.

neo sees the oracle too

Omega> Ok, im sorry, its not that im trying to be difficult, but, could you please explain how Neo downloading the Source/part of the Source, would affect him being able to stop Sentinels in the real world? we don't even know if the Source has any control over Machines in the real world; for all we know, they are on thier own.
2) Im not sure what you're saying, or how this pertains. Bane is no more; he is all Smith now. This is evident from the spots. Therefore, if Bane is no more, Bane is really Smith, so Smith controls the electical-signals, not non-existant Bane.
3) i have posted this in another thread, but i cant remember which one, so i will reiterate. What if, the point the Wachowskis are trying to make, is that we can never really know if we are free or not. What if, their point is that, the most "aware" person, is still a slave, still a lemming, following orders, unaware of the truth. It would not necessarily take any more time, as it could end up with Neo waking up from Zion, and going insane/dying/whatever, because his mind cannot grasp the fact that, he still, may not be free.

Again, im not trying to be difficult, im just trying to understand your POV, but i need more information, cause mine is still looking REALLY good. oh, one more thing, MWAM need not be the easy way out, there are probably much easier ways, that we have not even considered.

and I SEE typical (misleading) trailer editing.

the smith on fire thing is from another scene (the firy smith's lips don't move for one, and it's used in another context in one of the other trailers), it's been edited in just for the trailer, as happens always.

Omega> yeah. I think you hit all the anti-MWAM points. They certainly are the ones that I would have brought up. But somehow... I don't know why, I'm entertaining the idea of a MWAM. I'm just keeping my mind open.

Urot> ? I don't understand where you were going with that quote. Could you explain it a little more.

JediHDM> at least Urot explains things a little better. I guess now one just has to accept or reject "good story telling" as a valid factor in their decision. However... Ahhh, this is the big point... What Each Person thinks is good story telling tends to be an Opinion. So Urot may think that it would "hurt" the story to have a MWAM (and I've told you that I lean towards that idea sometimes). But you do not see it that way. Hmmm. I find that interesting.

All> In other words, some of these other facts have been things we could point to in movie clips, parts of the script, interviews, comics, etc. But now we are bringing up something that is not a tangible fact. It's not something that can be grasped and has a right or wrong. We're bringing up story telling, and what is good or bad. Obviously, this will vary from person to person. Who is right? OR how bout this, Who is more objective in deciding how the movie will go IF story telling is their determining factor? Hmm. I just think that it's interesting and I JUST thought of all this now.

My mind remains open. What are your thoughts?

um, whats the point of adding content to be shown on tv, if they KNOW its not gonna be in the movie. They wouldn't even do that...

who are you talking to?

JediHDM> I know you’re not trying to be difficult. If we all agreed here on everything what would we do? Count the seconds down?

The Source is THE Machine Mainframe. It’s not just another system of control. It is THE system of control. In the Matrix Neo uploads himself and through the anomaly is able to alter the programming of the virtual world. We know from ETM that Neos “mind touched the source”, and that is where I believe he, through the anomaly code, was able to copy the programming of the Source (the anomaly has altered his conscience, as the Architect says).
Now all Neo has to do is access the Mainframe mentally, to, say, stop sentinels. But the realisation overwhelmed him, he can SEE the entire Matrix now, from beginning to end, EVEN when he’s not uploaded.
Ehrmm… about Smith/Bane. I MEANT controlled by SMITH, not Bane. Sorry about that.

The philosophical point you make in 3) is exactly what the brothers elaborate on in Reloaded. While the two worlds remain the distinctly different, nothing is the same when Reloaded is over. The prophecy is a lie, Zion (while being real) is another system of control, Neo is not unique, he’s the sixth One, and was never meant to end anything. Everything we was brought to believe in M1 is no longer true or real.
If the Wachoski-brothers turn around, and say “The real world is virtual”, they’re “just” remaking M1. But without the surprise. In M1 strange thing are going on, real-time writing on screens, a cool cyber-heroine doing the impossible, the strange, elusive Morpheus, and Neos constant feeling of “there is something wrong.” When we’re presented with the truth, the Matrix, everything makes sense, and the journey begins.
IF the W-brothers wanted the real world to be virtual, and wait with revealing that until the conclusion, they’ve made a grave error. We have not met a SINGLE individual from the REAL real world. There is no reason to make me WISH the real world is wrong or virtual. That should’ve been done in M2, for it to make any sense.

SimplePriest> I’m not ruling out a MWtM. I’m merely noting that this far, the W-brothers have stuck to classical storytelling, so classical it’s almost like the rewritten tale of Prometheus. I’m not talking about a good or bad story, I’ve merely seen a “classic” story, like in fairy tales and/or old myths and legends.

Rysdigital> THAT is of course also possible. That the scenes we’ve seen in the trailers are edited together to make the confusion complete. Maybe that golden fire shot of Smith happens somewhere else. But where??

Omega> But thats the point, only the One has the power to realize the Zion is not real, but all the others have chosen the Source. If Neo is the first, the ONE, he will be the "man born inside , who had the ability to change whatever he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was he who freed the first of us." Did everything in Matrix make sense, before Reloaded was released, or did it fit all snugly into place? There were questions posed by the first one, problems, that weren't answered until M2. Reloaded, and Revolutions, are two parts of the same movie, so, just as the the answers are not all explained until the end of the movie/trilogy, so all the questions will not fit snugly into place until Reloaded. Thus, when i see questions that seem, to me, to point to MWAM, then i jump on it, because it is the both the most feasible and outlandish possibility i can see. It is not necessarily correct, but it is what i believe. sorry, i just realized im writing alot, but im not finished yet. take a breather, cool down, and...ok, Just because, thus far, the Wachowski Bros. have stuck to a "Classical" story, doesn't mean that they will not throw us a loop by jumping off the old plot and using a completely new design recipe. Also, i dont see why those spots are not too be taken literaly, as they are not even supposed to be SEEN yet... Why would they try to confuse a public that WONT see it, unless it is illegally shown?

I NEED THE LINK TO THE TRAILER! NONE OF THEM SEEN TO BE WORKING! IS WB SHUTTING THEM DOWN! I MUST SEE! PLEASE POST A LINK!

yes thank you nick. now i feel like i am not the only one that hasn't gotten to see this trailor. please post a link!

ok, let me say this ONE MORE TIME... WB HAS SHUT DOWN THE LINKS TO THE TRAILERS, PROBABLY BY THREAT OF LEGAL ACTION. THEREFORE, I COULD TELL YOU WHERE THE TRAILERS WERE, BUT THEY ARE NOT THERE ANY MORE...understand?

jedi, i wasnt implying that they put in shots that arent in the movie, i was saying that trailers are always misleading, because most of the time several scenes are mixed, so the viewers are lead to think wrong things (i.e. that neo sees bane change into smith in the real world )

Ok, thanks a lot to ALL of you who mailed me with… you know what… I’m actually a little touched by the amount of mails. Domo Arigato!

JediHDM> I think we both agree on the fact, that NEO, by not choosing the Source, not only showed a rebellious nature, but now also, for the first time in hundreds of years realised something more. What the more is, is where we diverge.
Sure, WHY Neo was able to do the things he did, wasn’t explained in the Matrix. Neither how this entire uploading of a human mind was brought about. As I wrote above, I’m not discounting the MWTM theory, to me it just contradicts the flavour of the story. I’ve written a few times, that Neo bears resemblance to not only a Christian Messiah or the Greek Prometheus, but also a Buddhist Enlightened One – a boddishatva. Someone whose perception transcends the illusion of life. But it is ONLY the one illusion. And the quest doesn’t stop there. Neo chose to become The One, in “The Matrix.” Reloaded and Revolutions deals with the consequences of that choice. NOT, as I see it, another complete transcendence.
Realising that the world Neo knew wasn’t real, was transcendence. But was the prophecy really a lie? Are there more veils to be lifted? No. Why? Because the answer still lies within the context of the prophecy – the prophecy of the One. The man who has the means to end the war. Not, though, by following the prophecy literally. But by believing in the possibility of ending the war.

Guys, the link doesn't work, i mean it does, but it is like the page is not there anymore, but jumps to the main page of something else. Can some 1 PM me the RIGHT link? Or even better, POST IT HERE?

Crash> As JediHDM said up there (points). The trailer spots have been removed from everywhere anyone found them because Warner ordered it.

Just a thought......Don't know if it's been mentioned before though..

We know that the path of the one is to end the war with the machines. We've all been led to believe that to end the war, Neo needs to destroy the machines.

In the Second Renaisaince, the story tells how man could not get along with the machines, and inevitabley started a war (Sorry, a machine killed two humans and was not given a fair trial).

Now, maybe Neo goes to "01" to call a truce to a war that started centuries ago.... By destroying the program SMITH, as an insurance to the humans devotion to get it to work.... Thus ending the war as the Oracle prophesised.

Might be a bit too happy for an ending, but you never know.

MagicRat

Magicrat> It's okay We're already discussing that option in another thread. But which one...
Have a look around.

Has anyone read Baudrillard's "Simulacra and simulation"? it is very enlightening, is shows a lot of similarities to Matrix, esp since the W-ski bros chose it. If you havent read it, i migh be enticed to post parts of it, for it is very helpful, to me at least, to understand how the W-ski bros. might go for MWAM. At least, it worked for me...