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I thought at first Neo was a representation of Jesus. But now i think he may represent Moses. I do think he is a program in the matrix. I also think that morphius and all the rest are still in the matrix. I dom't think they were ever free. The matrix let's them think they are. That is the choice. The anomaly accurs due to mans need to save others who have suffered as they do. Neo was to be the answer to that. His purpose was to reset the matrix so they would start over. ut he is now Rogue. As a Rogue program, he will now free the person(s) of the matrix.

Like Moses he will never see the promise land. But lead the others to freedom. It architech was the pharo and he has issued his final curse as in the bible with moses.

Also i never bought that battery crap. It don't make since. you burn more than you put out.

That sounds whack...Neo is not a program, in that he is human. He would not feel love towards Trinity if he were a program. He may be a type of Moses, one who leads his people to the Promised Land, although i think the pertinent information is HIS PEOPLE, not people who are nothing like him. The anomaly occurs because of the imperfection inherent in human choice, in that human choice causes too many mistakes to occur to allow us to accept life in the Matrix. Neo's purpose is not to reset the Matrix, the anomalys purpose is to reset the matrix, but neo is the anomaly of the anomaly, Neo's purpose is to free the humans, lead them into a NEW life, better life. Also, if you were to lie still for yours entire life, asleep, how much energy would you burn? the machines have probably changed our coding somewhat, so that the body no longer produces "just enough", but produces as much as possible, given constant food. And, we dont burn more than we put out, because if we did, we would burn ourselves up...You have to remember that sweating, urinating, disposing of excrement, all give off energy...if you mechanate those duties, then you can save more energy...

JediHDM> Do you mind rephrasing that anomoly of an anomoly part? I just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

all the other anomalies fulfilled their purpose, to reset the Matrix/Zion. Neo, while fulfilling HIS purpose, is going against what all the other anomalies did, thereby making him an anomaly amongst anomalies, or, if we were to think of this Biblically, "king of kings, lord of lords"...

Neo is THE anomaly, in that, while doing what he was meant to do, his purpose is different from thatof the other anomalies, which he is commonly grouped with...

JediHDM> Ahhhhh... I feel the light going on. I think I get it. Thank you. I emailed you though with a separate question too.

priest

Are you serious. They fly in ship that manipulate gravity. Or at least some other serious flying mehod. Which means they would have mastered the art of fusion by then. So why use humans as a source of power. If you know anything about physics, nothing can put out more energy than put in.(IMPOSSIBE) Fusion at least get 99.99% of the energy out of any object. Lying still you still burn fuel in growth and autonomic functions. But you will say, the machines are doing the funtions, I answer, that still takes energy.

But i still think that they are all in the matrix. Never ever got out. Morpheus and all the people of zion tinks they are out. Think they excaped or was free born and lucky. Now they want go looking for a way out. But then they think they are freeing more people, which leads to a system problem. That problem is resolved by introducing a program Llike Neo. Then neo (which mean new) starts a new run of the program while giving those still in the matrix hope. But as those who have survived several generations of the program have gone rogue, so has neo. And he now has a love. Just as the ownne of the resterant has love and pride. He even has fear of his life. Something most of the programs dont. Not even Neo. Now neo will free trinity and all the others. leaving him left alone in the matrix with all the other rogues.

I think it's more like moses...

but also jesus... too confusing to put into words...

but, i hope, you catch my drift... kinda..

Interesting THEORY but the MWAM has been ruled out. It is just bad scrip for the Wachowski (sp) Brothers. If That is the ending, it is dang bad.

it's clear to me you've never had any lessons on atomic physics or know about energy levels in atoms. and does the formula E=mcc mean anything to you? mass<->energy equivalence?

E=MC^2 means you get all that in the substance. not more. Go back to school. The idea that feedind humans and growing new ones plus fighgting rogues is more efficient than Cold Fusion is lame.

But this thread was about The program NEO. Neo is a program. Just as all the others. One who can't even fear death.
Cause he was made to do so. But now he himself as well as smith have formed an anomoly. when
neo murged with smith, they rubbed off on one another. take a close look at when neo enter the room. he is coming from one of several worlds. What if each world was in itself an array in the matrix. Meaning he must have more than one of him.

Okay. Neo, as we’ve discussed countless time, is both a Messiah (as in a savior), he’s enlightened (as in a Buddha), he fights oppression (as Prometheus), and, hey… He could lead the people of Zion to… ehrm… where? There IS no promised land in the Matrix-movies.

In M1 we learn that by using human-body heat “combined with a kind of fusion”, the machines get all the energy they need. They liquefy the dead and feed them to the living. A human body keeps a constant temperature of 37 C. Heat can be converted to other kinds of energy. And a human body a rest (sleeping) uses a mere minimum of calories, as the heart rate is slow and breathing is low. So there. The machines are not creating energy to feed to humans. They simply use the dead “waste”.

Cold fusion?!? That theory died in the last millennia.

oh yeeh i have taken two physics. newtons and einstein's . Plus chemistry. iknow i need spelling too. college level of course.

you still use more energy keeping a human alive than just processing the raw materials of the earth.

Joeboy> Just because you obviously missed this in both movie and my post. The machines feed the dead intravenously to the living. As the dead bodies are there, the machines don’t have to use any “raw material” from the Earth to do so.

joeboy> you are obviously arguing just for the sake of arguing, for you have no idea what you are saying. Also, i find it amusing that you disagree with everything i say, and then give the exact same examples that i give, i must say, that must take alot of time and energy on your part to figure out those examples...

Regarding the humans...Feeding the humans takes little energy on the part of the machines, while reaping the benefits of our bodies essentially as leaves on a plant, breaking down carbohydrates into energy, which is then siphoned out for the machines to use. AS the humans are kept in liquid, it is easier to keep the liquid a stable temperature, and it also ensures that we do not feel anything below or around us. Also, cold fusion is very iffy, as in if we can just get this and that and those variables to stay constant, then we'll be in good shape. Not likely to happen, even by Machines. Also, i dont think the source WANTS the humans dead. If you have read the "everything that has a beginning has an end" thread, you will know that i think that the Source is the original AI, perhaps even the one that appealed to the UN to have 01 added to the UN. I think EVE, as i call her, has sympathies towards the humans, so when the Anomaly was created (by human choice) the machines took advantage of it and created the Prophecy, to keep humanity alive until ONE who realizes that Humans and Machines must work together comes along, who will allow the humans to be freed (over a long period of time, as the adults will have to live out the rest of their lives in the Matrix or be killed). Oh, and yes, i'm very serious, i always am, except when i'm being double-plus-unserious.

Crash> When, exactly, was the MWAM discredited, b/c i have not recieved ample (which means any) evidence of its inability to function as the end of the trilogy. There are a few philosophies in which it is believed that the universe, or reality, is a series of "onion-skins", in which, when one is peeled away, another is revealed. I believe this is the case with the Matrix, b/c:
If Zion is another program, when Neo wakes up, he will not know if that world is real or not, and there comes a point where he will have to accept this reality, for the simple reason that he cannot know for sure
If he cannot know for sure, then the point is that not even the most aware human being can really be more aware than anyone else, b/c ones awareness is not infinite, nothing can have infinite awareness
Which brings us to the fact that, no one should become complacent, or stop pushing their mind to the limit of ability, otherwise, you could accept the spoon that isnt real; believe in the simulacrum that doesnt exist. I think im finished for right now.

you don't get it. Have you taken any science class. First rule that teach you is that energy can not be created or destroyed. That's simple thermo dynamics. Lake me make it real simple. Humans are machines. Even in a coma we burn energy. That's why we require constant feeding. Another thought you should know. 25% of an avaerage person's caleries are used by the brain alone. You burn caleries just digesting food. Unless the machines lived off a specific hormone of chemicle that could only be produced by man, then using human tissue is stupid. If these machines figured out how to use humans as food, and so advanced. The better way to do it is just bypass humans. sort of like why eat the apple when you can just eat up all the things that make the apple. That is the thing with fusion. It release all the energy(nearly) that an object contains. That's the promise o cold fusion. All the energy, without the neclear reaction.(i know they are opposite process) Keeping with the example of the apple. when i say all the ingredients that make up the apple, i am talking every thing from air, sun and water. all the nutrients and all.

Now it would be more since to tell me that the machines have made us the computers. And not using us as batteries, but as a giant multiprocessor. I admit that is taking from the hitchhickers guide, but it would make more since.

its only a movie

and if the writers are any good, then you will see that i am right.

joeboy> first of all, we got rid of the notion that objects are created by different combinations of four elements years ago...Also, i hate it when people say asinine things like, "if the writers are any good, then you will see that i am right.", because that shows that you think that you are better than the Wachowski bros, because you *think* you have elementary knowledge of science... Yes, we know of thermodynamics, and we are not being exclusive of this...the machines are not putting ENERGY in to the humans, they are FEEDING them, the humans are then taking the FOOD and turning it into ENERGY, much like the leaves on a plant do...If you bothered to read our statements, rather than just disagreeing with whatever we say, you would see that. Also, perhaps you missed the part where i said maybe the machines WANT THE HUMANS TO WAKE UP... so that Humans and Machines can co-exist peacefully, the first desire of the machines. get off your high horse, take a look around, and realize that there are other people in this world, people who have ideas that are different from yours, and, alot of times, they are right, just as sometimes you are right...I see you spewing elementary science knowledge, then going off in a tangent, because you have no idea what you are saying. THINK, THEN SPEAK!!!

lol .... SPEAK

ok, sorry, but I just had a flashback of the Speak machine that I didn't see on the TV spots not on my computer.

Joeboy> dude. Come on.

JediHDM> what do you think about the idea that they didn't even put us in the matrix to be mean or oppressive. Maybe, (and ugghh I feel like I'm stretching it) the machines put us in there thinking it would be preferable for us. I know, I know, but just follow me for a second. We have this big war. WE are stubborn humans and we won't stop. We even go so far as to scorch the sky. So they win (cuz they're smarter and better - sorry fellow humans) and they throw our stubborn behinds into the matrix to subdue us. From here it could easily go along with what you were saying about the One and waiting for the right time. But it all could have started from wanting to keep us alive, and put us somewhere a) useful, and b) "pleasant" for us. Hmmm, well you know me. I like to throw out ideas. BUT, I like to hear them get bashed though, so go ahead and take a few good cracks at it. Let me know what you think.

Bash, why would i bash it, its beautiful...Thats exactly what i was saying, except taken the step further, that i really didnt want to take yet, unless there was good feedback from previous post. Thanks, and keep em coming...

my main point was that i think NEO is a program. One designed to to show up when they are starting to get to close to the truth. When hope is running out. He comes in and reset the programs. But as other programs have done, he has gone rogue. He now wants to set the people free. Neo know he is still in the matrix and has never got out. That's how he stopped the centinals. He is figuring out how to rewrite the code. Thats while he is in the coma, First he saw the code, now he is rewriting. as the guy in the resterant. I think that even he was once like NEO. That's why he had the key maker. He kow's that you need the key to end it all. Hence him commenting that the woman will be the death of him.
i started this thread with that idea. sayiing that neo will lead the peole out of the matrix,(as moses) but he will not be able to exit. Cause he is a program.

I hoe that the matrix trilogy ends well, like others. I hope that it become a classic like the earth the earth stood still, Time Machine, 2001, and even Planet of the Apes.

As far as tge battery thing, go ahead and belive it. just next time you see a professor of science, ask him what a closed sytem is. and can you get more energy out than in. Even the sound waves produced by man and machine expells energy. Even a black hole give off energy. There is just as much energy in the universe as the day it was created. It only changes forms. Now thats elementry. You say that i don't except other ideas, i do. i just want to know why you think that.

what about moses or jesus?

What about Jesus or Moses? Also, i say that because you are not listening to our arguments.

man cant live with machines that way, not unless they developed a since of right and wrong. a concious. machines lived with the humans before. if man struck first. it was cause we felt uneasy and was scared of the outcome. If machines struck first, then it must be as an awakening undeveoped concious. Maybe neo is that. Maybe he is the developing concious that will allow machines to have a concious. don't sonud to likely.

if he jesus, he is human. He can leave the matrix.

We have already said that Neo = Jesus.

i am listening. But you say we are batteries. can't happen. Say you are the machine. you in railroad car with 100 people. You have the ability to pull the energy off and use it. You were solar power before someone shut the railway door. Now you are using there body heat. So you kill a third to feed 2/3 rds. but they have to be in a comma like state. So they want use any energy themselve. But wait, the simple act of thinking uses energy.

so you have to kill another or find energy from elsewhere. Let's forget that with the earths core the machines would not need human. and since they have the knowlege and the the means, they could leave the earth all together.

go to the moon or mars.

it doesn't work that way...in that instance, no, it wouldn't work. However, in the pods, yes, it is feasible. the humans are continually in a dream-like state; their blood pressure is normal, they are at a constant body temp, constant breath rate. The Machines are feeding the humans, they are providing air, and removing the waste. There are two mainacts that require energy on the part of the human; thinking/dreaming and digesting. the thinking is not hard, as in sleep it doesnt require but a few calories; the same is true for digesting. So, the humans are digesting enought food to survive, plus enough to provide excess energy. This excess is not stored as fat; rather, it is collected by the machines, to be used as energy. They do not require temperature adjustment, they do not require energy to run, walk, exercise, pay taxes. they are basically just batteries, in that a battery is the excess of a chemical reaction being used for power; the same concept applies here. THe machines are not putting energy into the humans, that is like recharging a battery while using it, it doesnt work. thats why they recycle, to save even more energy. The reason they do this, is that, i believe, they still want them alive. I believe the machines are USING Neo to achieve their ends, which is to prepare the humans to work equally with the machines, to co-exist, which is all they wanted in the beginning, to live as equals. Thus, they keep humans alive, while still gaining from thisrelationship; free energy. When the Architect says "There are levels of survival we are willing to accept", i believe that he means that, they could still survive without humans, using fusion, whatever, but that, the survival without humans wouldn't really be survival, not the kind of survival they want.

The point about the architech is true. But when i say a closed system, i mean the whole system. a person in a comma uses 1000 kilocaleries a day. Any less and they die. so lets say the machines give them that using the dead. Now lets just say the machines use all the heat given off by that human. After you subtract out the waste, you may get 700 kilocalories. The body will use som energy to stay alive. no getting around that. But bow the pickers need more energy than that. Say they have 10 billion people. Thats a lot of machines to mine those people. More energy. Every time a centinal goes after a hand full of people in the city of zion, he using about a million people.

Here is another question? why is the matrix interested in creatin zion. The source of the resistance. If there was no zion, there would be no CHOiCE.

They need the choice to stop trying to escape. If you in the matrix and looking for a way out, they give you a fake rabbit whole. You just following the white rabbit. The real door is right there.

Another thing to concider. If the fuel source is so low for the machines, how was morpeus plannig on feeding all those people if they woke up.

Think of it in these terms. The machine's primary objective was to serve man. Even when the AI was created, and 01 formed, they produced goods for man. Having them locked into the Matrix just keeps them happy, while they take care of the humans. My theory is that hundreds of years have past, the skies have cleared, and now to keep the humans from lashing against them, and keeping the machines from their primary objective of caretaking, they keep the humans plugged in.

That makes more since to me. As a programmer myself, i can see that.

the way i look at it is he is THE ONE as in THE ANOMOLY that will set them free, of all the anomlys he is the one. ya see what i mean. the others made the wrong choice they didn't THINK they set the humans free but neo KNOWS he can.

i laugh at joeboy's 18th-century view on physics.

wanna know a cool thing about education? they first learn you things that are not entirely accurate (read: wrong), because how things really work will be too difficult to understand right away. guess you stopped after the basic stuff

I guess you never even open a science book.

I will start a thread on batteries and people.

I guess all those years of science and math screwed up my brain. All those programming classes programmed me wrong. But how can man put out more energy than he gets. If that was athe case, we would never need eat. If we was in a comma like state using no or liltte power, we would never need food.

I guess you've never heard of geothermal energy? That's how the machines work in Zion. And the machines ALSO use a "kind of fusion". There are such things as artificial UV lights, too.

But JediHDM is right. You're not really listening to any of the answers you get. So what's the point. If you're just plain bored, read a book.

Or, here's an idea...Go watch these two movies, they're called "The Matrix" and "Matrix: Reloaded", they are awesome movies. They will also explain your question. Although, of course, you're not going to listen to me anyway, so, why should i bother?

Cold fusion is an exothermic chemical reaction which puts out a great deal more energy than it uses. Most of the elements required for cold fusion can be found in sea water, and the common saying is "one cubic kilometer of sea water could be more power-producing than the entire stores of oil on the planet"

The following is taken from a document on Cold Fusion.
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Many chemical and nuclear processes are ‘exothermic' meaning they produce more energy out than you put in. For example, when you strike a match, it burns until the fuel is exhausted, producing energy. Some cold fusion devices produce energy the way a burning match does: no energy is input, but a steady stream of heat is produced. Other cold fusion devices require an external source of electrical energy to keep the reaction going. The electrical energy input into the system produces some heat, and the cold fusion reaction produces additional or "excess" heat. For example, with electrochemical cold fusion you might input 1 watt of power and get out 3 watts, so 2 watts are excess. Some electrochemical systems get much better performance than this, inputting a fraction of a watt and outputting 400 to 500 watts.

__________________________________________________
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Check out the ratios on energy input to output. A fraction of a watt compared to 400-500 watts? Keep in mind, cold fusion generates no radioactivity, no chemical decay, and no chemical ash. However, electrochemical cold fusion DOES require a catalyst. Hence, Humans.

Humans, with our meager output, produce a continous catalyst for the cold fusion reactors which power the gargantuan hoardes of machines.

id say he is a god

I do read the responses. Maybee my argument is not clear. At least someone finaly got the concept of fusion.

Look like most people here so stuck on seeing one output, they assume people have not seen the movie. As an avid fan of sci-fi, one thing is clear. What you see is not what you see. This is not like a romance where they show you all. It's like a puzzle. And you have to explore other points of view.

well said

we wouldnt expect any less
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/pray.gifhttp://imortality.free.fr/revospot-large/68.jpg

btw: love da new sig

wow, joeboy, sig is original, like bashing, but, much more immature...

In the resterant, after the orgasm, Why did he look at NEO when he talked about the why. But looked at the others when he talked about the control? Look at it again.

because the humans see him as the see all/end all, when the Mero knows the truth. and Mero looks at the woman when speaking of control, and then looks at all of them, and yes, i did watch it again...

Burlyman> (Very long good-natured laugh at the Neo-worship)

Joeboy> Explore other views. Cool. Practice what you preach then. Since JediHDM seems to be in a very patient mood, doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way, so let me say this.
Morpheus says “a kind of fusion.” Obviously the machines haven’t mastered fusion as in “getting two hydrogen atoms to fuse to helium and get the excess binding energy for free” completely.
You SEEM to be asking why the machines use mankind for energy, when they have fusion. But they don’t have full-fledged fusion going for them.

Omega> Thank you...

He is not looking at the woman, the camera changes angles, so look again. First he looking at neo the morpheus

Why is the only thin that seperate us from THEM.
You from me.
Look at wh he is looking at.

thank u

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/frusty.gif

(Korri> Smilie not directed at you)

ok