Baudrillard

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JediHDM
Correct me if i'm wrong (and you understand), but doesn't this, when taken with the Matrix, seem to point to a MWAM?

"If once we were able to view the Borges fable in which the cartographers of the Empire draw up a map so detailed that it ends up covering the territory exactly (the decline of the Empire witnesses the fraying of this map, little by little, and its fall into ruins, though some shreds are still discernible in the deserts-the metaphysical beauty of this ruined abstraction testifying to a pride equal to the Empire and rotting like a carcass, returning to the substance of the soil, a bit as the double ends by being confused with the real through aging)-as the most beautiful allegory of simulation, this fable has now come full circle for us, and possesses nothing but the discrete charm of second-order simulacra.
Today abstraction is no longer that of the map, the double, the mirror , or the concept. Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being, or a substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality; a hyperreal. The territory no longer precedes the map, nor does it survive it. It is nevertheless the map that precedes the territory-precession of simulacra-that engenders the territory, and if one must return to the fable, today it is the territory whose shreds slowly rot across the extent of the map. It is the real, and not the map, whose vestiges persist here and there in the deserts that are no longer those of he Empire, but ours. The desert of the real itself."

I'm not sure, cause i've read it many times already, and each time it seems to change meanings again, but, right now, it seems to point to MWAM...

SimplePriest
Where is this from? confused
I'm gonna have to read this one with a dictionary in front of me I think. But I can say this already: I believe MWAM is viable, and the arguments against it so far, are not persuasive. Nothing really concrete or discrediting to MWAM has been brought up that I think there isn't a reasonable rebuttal for. Ugghh, too many big words. Sounds like I'm trying to sound smart. I think MWAM stands. I think somebody is going to have to bring something else to the table to topple it.

Which, for those of you not attuned to my subtleness, means please try to topple it. I'd like to hear peoples ideas. smile

Exa
I think that's from the introduction of "Simulacra and Simulation" by Baudrillard;
Unless he uses the same words in an other book smile

burlyman
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you, a world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries, a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

JediHDM
Yeah, its the beginning of "Simulacra and Simulation", one of the required readings for Keanu Reeves before he read the Matrix script. Also the book that Neo keeps his virtual drugs in, in his room...

...And i added the emphasis, just so you know...

Exa
ot
I wanted to buy the book, but I couldn't find it; how much does it cost?
/ot

Sifer
Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0472065211/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-1007348-0526825

Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0472065211/qid=1064170895/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-4220238-9604662?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Exa
Thx
in austria its very difficult to find books like that sad

Red Texas
They allude many times(in the game) to Bowie, so it's no coincidence, if that's what you're saying...

PS: forgive me for my disrespect of Baudrillard, but I tend to forget strange spellings, and assign them cartoon-like names.

Like : Nietzsche, I would call Nichie smile

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