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A friend of mine said that our body is only controlled by our nerve system ( electric impulses ) you know what I mean.
So in a few years time we can plug a machine into our nerve system and play computergames by movement you know by projecting it on screen.

cool huh

xxx Clavis

What you on about m8, a British Scientist (If I remember correctly) is already the first official Android. He has devised a way to connect a computer to his nervous system (on his arm). From that the computer recieves ANY electrical impulses made and records them. They are using the data for creation of replacement arms, legs, etc

So it's already begun

Oh my god!!! we're goin down baby

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/154545.stm
http://www.kevinwarwick.org/

I don't know if it means "mankind" is going anywhere but forward. We alreday use glasses, contact lenses, hearing aid, artifical limbs. If merging with machines make us better, why worry?

ehm why not worry like duh....
Haven't you seen the second renaissance

YEAH SCOTLAND RULES

It's ( of course ) a scotsman that enters the first part of the revolution.

I would consider a borg-merged society an evolutionary plus, not some dystopian hell to fear, because, thankfully, movies like the matrix, and dystopian novels/movies in hgeneral warn us of our power...

Then again, when you think about it, who's going to get the upgrades? The rich, or the poor?

Tjis could get dirty, because 'good' and 'bad' are very relative and subjective terms. relative to our species, merging with machines would be creating(in a sense) genetic diversity, which is a good(again, relatively) thing.

Although it's never fun to discuss the class angle of genetic and mechanical improvements to humans, it is numero uno in importance, so, we ask oursaelves, do we want a world where class becomes species?

Yes it might be an animated short movie but it really does sum up the arrogance of the human race quite nicely.

The human race is no arrogant, it is an animal, which, like all others, procreates, and preserves itself, evolving and adapting collectively to new conditions of production and material well-being. Thus class and the state.

I've never taken to the whole "lets hate humanity for advancing" schpiel - it's simply not logical...

I know but every animation and illusion in your life has a meaning I believe... It is only appropriate that you take it as a real thing in your mind so you dont get down at the end of it al....
( a quote from a latin prof ) and you know I'm only a Lo-tech gurl in a High-tech world

I have that problem too, as you could probably guess.(Being called god hater and evil commie, for starters )

I completely understand your reasoning here

From dictionary.com:

1) Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

2) Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak.

Human Race = above.

That's natural selection, friend. We rose to the top of the chain, and made sure we stayed there. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

There is!!! God designed the world (according to the bible) for every creature to live in peace with the other
By killing them you interpreted it very different....

HEY SIFER FOR YOUR INFORMATION I AM FEMALE SO NOT A M8!!!

It isn't about the Bible.

But the fact we can't even stop killing ourselves. It isn't about us feeling superior to animals, but feeling superior against each other. Why is it so hard for someone to admit that we know jack shit, and as humans, flawed? Because we're arrogant.

Errrm, I'm from the UK m8. Over here mate is often used to refer to someone as a friend, not a mate in the literal sense. So, don't be offended.

ow sorry sife ( can I call you sife ) I'm from Scotland and there it is almost only used for men you see have a banana============>

HA! As long as the Religious Right Winged Conservatives have any say, we will never have genetic changes or enhancements added to the human form.

Due to them being so afraid of the "Mark Of The Beast" witten in the Bible.

Now if God really created the world so everyone could live in peace, tell me why he/she shows favoritism towards Israel?

What makes them so much better than everyone else on the planet?

Oh I forgot they (The Jews) wrote the bible so I guess that makes their statement true.


We are all of one blood. We are all Human. We should all be treated as equals in God's sight.

Now I can see why we dont really talk about politics or religion in here.

*** Urot Walks away shaking his head. ***

Oy Vey, I hate discussing the bible, but to hit on some of those things:

(1)Mark of the beast: The number 666 translated from revbalation's original language(as you know, the letters are numbers, and vise versa), ACTUALLY means "Nero Caesar," the persecutor of christians. It was a common superstition at the time that Nero would rise agains to once again bring opression to christianity...

(2)Israel/Jews/Blah: The "old testament" is nothing more than a collection of parables, and tribal law, no one, not even the Jews, take it literally(even if some of the more extremem christians say they do). The New Testament is a collection of parables and stories supposedly said by Jesus, and the "rumor effect" of Jesus's holiness...

and, Omega,

It seems we do agree alot

Urot> Hey, whats wrong with Religious Right-wing Conservatives, Really? Im just joking, i know people think of us as Religious freaks. um, about the "mark of the Beast"...I cant speak for everyone, but im pretty sure that the Mark of the Beast wont have any relevance while im alive, so im not too worried about that...Also, Omega, The human race is collectively "arrogant", in that we are mostly zenophobic and are contestive to the point of absurdity...but really, can we stop this thread, or move it, cause i know there are people who are gonna get upset if we continue this discussion...and now is time for the Banana King...

It never will, save to excite a few Pat Robertbots into kill mode




Again, xenophobia isn't some natural trait in the human genome, so that argument is poop

I love that banana smilie!

alright, ill give you that, i concede...Banana King...

Well I dunno, I have enough of a problem with breast implants. If a young lady whipped out some metal boobies in my face, man I'd freak! It's just not natural in my opinion. Only under certain circumstances should people be allowed to merge machine with flesh. If this is the wave of the future people need to have sense enough to use this technology with some propriety. Of course they won't and next thing you know, we'll have armies of 8 ft tall super androids with 20 mm gatling cannons for arms walking around claiming dominion over all life on the planet. Or worse, we might have another Michael Jackson on our hands

i agree with sifer

omega> i concede, i concede...

How does God show favoritism towards Israel?
By killing 6 million jews in WWII? By having them persecuted for 100s of years? By giving them a homeland where suicide bombers kill people almost every week?

If there is a god, he isn't favoring any religon or nationality. History has show mass killings or persecution for all. Millions of Russians killed in their civil wars. The Japenese had two atomic bombs dropped on them. Idi Amin killed 100 of thousands if not millions of his own country men. Africa as a whole had to deal with the whole slave thing. This list could go on forever.



Every religon believes their version of the bible (or equivalent writings) is the true writing. Is the Lutheran version any more or less true, because Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the Wittenberg Castle Church's door? What about Joseph Smith's vision that created Mormons?
No, wait, is the true writings those from Scientology? After all a failing science fiction writer wrote them.


If you get anything from these movies, shouldn't it be that you need to open up your eyes and take a good unbiased view, instead of just believing two bit theory that gets thrown in front of you?

How does God show favoritism towards Israel?
By killing 6 million jews in WWII? By having them persecuted for 100s of years? By giving them a homeland where suicide bombers kill people almost every week?

If there is a god, he isn't favoring any religon or nationality. History has show mass killings or persecution for all. Millions of Russians killed in their civil wars. The Japenese had two atomic bombs dropped on them. Idi Amin killed 100 of thousands if not millions of his own country men. Africa as a whole had to deal with the whole slave thing. Iran and Iraq dealt with "ethnic cleansing" on numerous occasions - that's nice talk for slaughtering the men, women and children who happen to not be the same religon of ruling party. This list could go on forever.



Every religon believes their version of the bible (or equivalent writings) is the true writing. Is the Lutheran version any more or less true, because Martin Luther posted 95 Theses on the Wittenberg Castle Church's door? What about Joseph Smith's vision that created Mormons?
No, wait, is the true writings those from Scientology? After all a failing science fiction writer wrote them.


If you get anything from these movies, shouldn't it be that you need to open up your eyes and take a good unbiased view, instead of just believing every two bit theory that gets thrown in front of you?

Start using your brain instead of being a brainwashed lemming.

Omega pleeeeeezzzzzz you can call god the architect aswell you know what I mean!!! A banana will cheer you up =====>

machines may in fact be the next step in evolution... and i do think we are arrogant in one respect... we seem to think we are the pinnacle of evolution.
as far as incorparating machines with flesh, i'd like to know where i sign up... maybe i can get a machine waste disposal unit rather then this crappy flesy broken down digestive system that doesn't like the abuse i like to put it through. if i could put a computer chip in my head to make me smarter, faster and\or stronger i pry would.

tsk tsk tsk. See what I'm talking about. Whether your kidding or not, there are people out there who would abuse the power to no extent. And that is scary to me. There should be some measure of control. Of course I'm probably being paranoid, after all, people said the telephone would cause people to have no human contact.

I don't know. It doesn't seem to me that as a whole the human race is arrogant with respect to evolution, the fusion of man and machine or the other medical breakthroughs. Look at the (generally) the world's reaction to cloning as being morally wrong. The fact that very few people want to cyrogenically freeze their bodies so they can be brought back to life in the future, and so forth. Sure, there are some people for which these are things they would like to do/try, but I don't think it is anything but a small minority.

Most of the medical improvements and devices seem to be more about correcting an accident or disease than turning man into machine. (Pacemakers, artificial hips, methods to help the blind see, the mute talk, etc. ) Sure, you can argue that cosmetic surgery doesn't do this, but the flip is that this treatment will help correct a mental feeling of inadequacy.

I haven't seen anything where people are having limbs removed to put on a stronger arm or anything like that.

And I do not think we are at the pinnacle of evolution.

because they can't as of yet.



it is only the beginning. if someone is willing to have surgery for vanity then they will most certainly have surgery to be more machine if it gives them an advantage of some kind.

Humans are controlled by the nervous system and also endocrine system. So in real life the machines cannot completely take control of us.

You think it is only men who caused the Isrealites to have a state AGAIN? I am sorry, but i am one of the "extremists" you would say. I will not explain my views, because they will inflame EVERYONE, or most everyone, and i dont want to do that. However, i will say that, the person i get my info from also knew about the fact that Sept. 11 was supposed to have ten flights, not too long after the attack happened (which, by the way, has just been released by AP), so, as i believed him then, i believe him know...

JediHDM On sept the 11th as it was happening they stated that there were more planes involved. So I believe you.

Now as far as you being an "extremists". Everyone has their views.

Imo it's ok the have the belief that they are backed by GOD. The problem comes in when people force that belief on others. You can look at it in two ways (more if you want to be technical).

1. Israel was established by GOD (The spiritual side).

2. Britain and the U.N. established Israel (The physical side).

Now I'm not trying to tell you that your belief system is wrong.

What I am saying is we all should be treated as equals in God's sight.

Mankind will always be at war over religion/doctrine. True Spirituality is the way to go.

And yes there is a differance between the two.

i understand exactly what you're saying, and it wasn't pointed at you anymore than the others. I just hate being called an extremist (even if you didn't say that) And i have problems when ppl push thier beliefs on other, also. Which is partly why i try to act as moderator, when i can...

Urot> Yeah, i have to agree, what exactly DO you believe?

Omega> Thank you, my momma done brought me up right nice...JJ, but yes, everyone should be able to talk civily, esp about religion, because if we can't, this world is screwed (and by that i mean even more than it is right now).

Omega> (There are too many to list) I'll keep it simple: I don't agree with the way they treat the palestinians.

JediHDM> I would consider myself an Agnostic.

I was raised as a christian baptist. It took me many years to figure out that there was something wrong with religion. I had alot of questions that could not be given a proper answer. So I did some research on my own. Then I started to see the ugly truth about religion, and I didn't like what I saw. I didn't feel comfortable sitting in church anymore. In fact is sickened me. So I left. Over the years (since I left) I visted different christian churches, and it was pretty much the same no matter where I went.

Now can I prove that there is a GOD? No. I also can't disprove him/her either. So I live my life as an Agnostic. If God does exist He/she should love us for who and what we are. There should not be any type of conditions attached to that love. That is why I try to treat everyone with respect and love.

In any case this site sums up how I feel. It's called "Why I'm Agnostic" B. Steven Matthies.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/matthies.shtml

And

http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/ (Excerpts From Losing Faith In Faith: From Preacher To Atheist by Dan Barker.

Both are pretty good reads.

1. We know alot. Calling the human race on not knoing everything there is to know doesn't amount to arrogance on our part, sorry.

2. "killing ourselves"? Ever thought that maybe war serves a purpose, be it in the interests of one class, or another?

UROT,

I used to be an agnostic, but then I realized(for myself) that "I don't know" is neither a position, nor an answer

I'm an athesit, if the les intuitive folks in here haven't picked that up yet

Urot> i dont want to get into politics here, but what have the Israelies done that has not been warranted by the Palestinians actions? If the Israelies dont fight back, they will be obliterated from all sides...

What "sides" are you talking about?

Do you mean in the cities of Palestine, where Israeli troops occupy, and terrorize, or maybe Palestinian roads, where the Israelis erect huge blockades to control traffic, or maybe you mean the palestinian economy Israel destroyed, or could you mean the great Berlin wall Israel constructed INSIDE palestinian territories, or MAYBE you mean the occupying civilians that trample over palestinian territories to create "settlements"?

What do you mean?

Israel is "fighting back" it's own fault, the evil IT created.

ISRAEL destroyed the only credible secular authority in Palestine, and then they complain when Hamas and other religious fundamentalists take over. They wonder why their cities are under threat of attack, when Palestine is CONSTANTLY under attack by their tanks, and their guns. The Israelis fear a bomber, the Palestinians fear bombs. Who has the moral high ground here?

They roll over houses, kill children, and steal land, what do they expect?

Red Texas said it for me.

EDIT:

The israelis are always painted as the victims, when in most cases that is far from the truth.

um, well, when the secular authority has some control over causing the suicide bombers, then taking him out of office will do SOME good. Also, i'm not talking about just from the Palestinian, i talking the Jordanians, the Syrians, the (former) Iraqis, the Iranians...And considering the land was taken FROM the Israelis, they have the right ot it...And Israel is fighting against the "evil" that has attacked the Jews for thousands of years, in different forms...Any children that are killed are not purposely attacked by the Israelis, as opposed to the Suicide bombers that target school buses and schools full of children, and the innocent men and women, that have nothing to do with the war...When Israel strikes they usually attack strategic places, leaders, warriors, not innocent civilians...AND, which network are YOU watching, that portrays the Israelis as the INNOCENT ones, because i have ALWAYS seen the media portray the Palestinians as the victims...

Lets handle this bit by bit shall we:




1. There is no proof or logical reason arafat(he's a wimp in my mind, mind you) or anyone in the PA would've ordered any attacks.

2. The PA couldn't handle the logistics of an organized system of terrorism. The fact is, the only organized part of this operation is how the materialis are getting in, which can probably be attributed to Hamas connections.

3. Were American revolutionaries justified in killing(murdering in a cruel way, in fact) tax collectors?



This seems to be a recurring(sp?) problem in the right, they seem to connect fringe religious groups supplying materials with the state. If that logic ACTUALLY were used, then those christian crazies that blow up abortion centers and federal buildings are actually US government agents. see the flaw in that? officers




Again, more faulty logic. You're very willing to use the "they were there first, and driven off of it unfairly, so deserve to get it back" schpiel in the case of Israel, but I'm sure you, nor any other proponent of the Israeli terrorist state would be willing to give up your house, town, and cities here in the USA to chief runningfoot and squanto, since, like you sai, "they were here first"





So, since they've been wronged in the past, they get a blank check to do the same to others?

ever heard of "two wrongs don't equal a right"



That's funny since:

1. The Israeli secret service KNEW there were children in the places they sent their missiles.

and

2. Those children, old women, and young men Israel kills had nothing to do with the actions of the bombers, yet they're branded terrorists...

odd.





Ah yes, the wonders of smart bombs. But I'm sure you agree, the Palestian near-peasants have neither the money for smart bombs, or the backing from the US to use them.



Here we go. Another lib'rel media rant

I agree with Red Texas 100%.



JediHDM how would you feel if I came and took over your house right now? Also I had the Police with me stating that I could do whatever I wanted to you and your family and that the house you live in has been mine all along. You would not like that would you?

Even if you tried to fight aginst me, the police that were backing me would give me better weapons and equipment. You would not win the fight. Not to mention I have God on my side. So If you challenge me your challenging GOD.

Now since I have the police and God on my side, I also start to get the people in your neighborhood to side with me. Now you would be hated in your community because you are considered a trouble maker.

Now having done all of that, I still have the right to treat you and your family as third class citizens.

Would that be fair in your eyes?

I think not.


After all that crap you would be willing to do anything to kill me, even if it ment you taking your own life to do it.

Now lets break this down.

1. You and your family would be the palestinians.

2. I would be Israel.

3. The Police would be The U.S. and Britain (and others).

4. The people in your neighborhood would be the world comunity or it could be the chistian community.

5. Your house would be the land in the middle east.

6. And God would be the creator of the universe.

The whole situation over there is really messed up.

-------------------------

JediHDM checkout these two sites when you get a chance.

http://www.allianceforlifelonglearn...estine2K2.shtml

http://www.palestinehistory.com/palst.htm#01

JediHDM> It seems like the my first line didn't work.

Try this one:

http://www.allianceforlifelonglearning.org/er/lg/IsraelPalestine2K2.shtml


Red Texas> I don't think anyone in america would give their land or homes back to the Native Amreicans. This land (Not all But a good percentage) was theirs but it was stolen right from under them. By all rights it should be given back, since they were here first.

Right?

We both know that will never happen.

Most people don't think about these things. All they know is what they are told.

* JediHDM I hope you understand that I'm not attaking you. *

Urot> I know...And i wouldn't have a problem with returning the land, except that, the American Indians are already compensated far beyond just land lost.

Since what i think about Israel, and what you think about Israel are obviously not going to change, can we just return to the matrix, forget about this?

HAHAHA, you're kidding, no? How can you say a little plot of land, some affirmative action programs, and a broken down casino is compensation for 9 MILLION SQUARE KILOMETERS!? That's a joke!

So, relative to land size, the Jews should've been given a cracker and a door knob for their land lost.

Who's the hypocrite here?

they say civilation started in the fertile cresent (cresent of fire is what it should be called) they have been fighting over there for a long long time and will continue till either god is dead or the human race is gone.
as far as the american indian... their land was usurped like so many all over the world through out history. that is over and they got screwed... like most of new world. it happens.

They're never gonna stop fighting cause they're both as blood thirsty as each other. Simple!

happy kine>

EXXXACTLY. Zionist claims that
they were there first" doesn't hold water, for that simple reason.


Sifer>

The fighting will stop when Israel is driven out of Palestine's land...

No one ever said revolution were clean, non-violent affairs

um, do you have any idea what kind of "Compensation" American Indians recieve? It goes far beyond a few casinos...And the fighting won't stop, until the Jews are destroyed, plain and simple...

This is the net, I am all for debate. But to debate religion is not a smart ifdea. Especialy via the web. Unless you grow up in that persons shoes, your since of prospective would be off. In war, there is no right on wrong. Just war. No matter who you kill or not kill. That is up to those that fight. But to fight when we suppose to enjoy the movie. No.
Time and Place.
This is not it.
Now if you want to compare the matrix against whats going on. You can. That would make Neo a pal and the machine isreal.

Well, since Jesus=Neo, the Israel thing DOES have merit...

And Jedi, please do tell of the overwhelming compenation given to the indians...

Could we "compensate" the jews for Israel, instead of giving it "back" to them?

STOP IT. can't we all just get along

We CAN just all get along, but i can't stand it when ppl say that the palestinians are right, or its all Israels fault...

tshirt> Thank you, for you seem to have explained it better than i thought i did.

If we are going to continue this conversation, this thread should be renamed and moved to the Off Topic Forum (leaving the posts in place).

This is a Matrix Forum and it should stay that way.

Now as far as our ideas not changing, I think we do agree on this.

Under God every man, women, and child should be treated with respect.

As I said before, we are all of one blood. We need to focus on what we all have in common, not the things that separate us.



I think we all need to walk through the door.

machines are taking over! and hal is their leader.

http://cinetext.philo.at/magazine/images/hal.png
HAL: I honestly think you ought to calm down; take a stress pill and think things over.

its HAL! with the ominous stare

Yeah! Hal was the best!

ok, lets end this on the note of HAL...

I HOPE YOU'RE KIDDING. I don't consider a war, and "voluntary" racist occupation "peaceful"

You've been read too many Israeli history books. The fact is, those people were DRIVEN from their land.

Think of it this way, bro. Picture this: You're black in the 60's, now, officially, you can VOLUNTARILY leave AN alabama white neighborhood, yes, but you and I knowq, there's not much choice in that...



I'm going to pretend you just didn't rationalize the berlin wall, in Israel, or germany...



You're correct, because in the eyes of that land's rightful people, ISRAEL DOESN'T have a right to exist. The invaders must be pushed back, not handed your capital. War requires war-like attitudes, not hollow peace.



Here you're assuming the UN is/was a fair, balanced non-imperialist organization.

A leap of faith, to say the least.



This wasn't a skirmish, this was an INVASION.



Yes, Israel was attacked, because Israel had no right to exist. They had no right to invade that land, and the Arabs had every right to crush and destroy the Zionist menace.



All you're proving to me is that religion is stupid. I happen to agree.

If you're going the road of the common rightist fool, and connect that quote with the defenders of Palestine's revolution, let me tell you I'm not a typical liberal. I won't roll over for that argument, I won't back away.

Fallacies don't work for me, brother.



Yes.



The war continues, the revolution lives on.



There can be no peace, all "peace treaties" made between Israel and Palestine are but pieces of paper signed by a puppet and a master.

There can be no peace in Palestine, just as there could have been no peace when the Germans were outside Moscow in ww2.

There will be only one winner, here.



Again, no big deal, one of the arab countries dropped the fight. Italy in ww1 comes to mind. There are essentially 3 sides in this war:

1. US/Israel
2. Palestine revolutionists
3. Arabs.

The revolution/war will continue as long as one of those two last ones exists, I promise you.



Under whose control are those areas now? I rest my case.

Where is the PA now? beneath the rubble created by Israeli bombs.






OK, I'm getting tired of this history lesson...



Damn those Palestinians for not having US supplied smart bombs!!! Damn them!

Your logic seems to imply that, to make this right, the US should give billions to Palestine TOO... not a bad idea.



If a clan of Natives were tro come to my neighborhood, and claim my house as historically theres, throw me out, shoot my brother, kill my cat, and then send me to the crackhouse down the street "voluntarily," then block me from getting to my mom's crackhouse across the way using roadblocks, you'd bet I'd be pissed, pissed enough to do some damage to chief runningfoot for stealin' my stuff.



I was waiting for the apologism, I found it...



"giving" back land. Again, back to MY example, the crackhouse ain't gonna cut it. I want MY house back!



You've yet to show that.

I am against the war in the Middle East (that includes W's Crusade), I for one believe in one thing, that there is no religion and no belief only illusions to shiled people from reality, if people woke up people would be at peace and we would'nt have racial or religion discrimination, and our civilization can move on. That is my view anyway.

True world peace is something I would love to see in my lifetime.