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Thats what the mero says. He says that, then says "Then you can have your 'savior'" or something along that line. Who/what is the eyes of the oracle. I'm thinking it's Seraph, or something of the sort.

Hmm maybe Seraph.. or maybe it's literal and he wants her eyes! Mwahahahahahahaha :-|

my bro just had a good thought - bring me the eyes of the oracle -> who have we seen blind(fold)ed in the trailer (i.e. without (working) eyes)? neo! the oracle may have injected her 'eye' code into neo with the cookie/candy.

but <ero has Neo, and besides, the cookie was WAY before he had visions, and the candy was WAY after...

we don't know how long he had been having visions. trinity says 'still can't sleep?' near the beginning of reloaded. you're thinking the dream at the start of reloaded is neo's first, and you're probably wrong about that. and mero might not know what the oracle did, so he keeps neo prisoner in exchange for the eyes, not knowing he already has them.

but still, Neo didn't have visions until after M1, and Neo met the Oracle A LONG time before he became the one, months before...

no he didn't. what Matrix did you watch? right after he visited her, there was the deja vu ambush, after which they immediately rescued morpheus, after which they immediately ended up at the subway station, after which neo battled smith, after which he immediately ran off to the exit in the hotel, after which he became the one.

where is your LONG time? months before ? no offense.

never heard of the strategy to hide things you don't want found in the least probable place?



this makes no sense. care to eleborate on how this explains what jedi said ("Neo met the Oracle A LONG time before he became the one, months before".

Rys> Sorry. I misread JediHDM's sentence as being "Neo meet the Oracle a long time after he became the one, months after."
No, it doesn't make any sense

oki, thought i was going mad :P

im sorry, you were right, rys...i dont know what i was thinking right there, i think i was thinking that it was months between Neo waking up and becoming the one...i dont know, that was a misstep on my part...I apologize.

no prob dude my memory gets blurry all the time too

why do you all think my idea sucks? it aint that impossible

its possible, but there is no evidence that supports it, esp in that the Oracle doesn't act like she gave it to him; she acts like its natural that the ONE see the visions...

neo cant have the eyes, he is held captive in limbo.

how is the first part of your sentence a conclusion of the second?

If neo is the savior, then if they got the eyes from neo, they would already have the savior. So someone else must have the eyes.

Like saying, bring me a happy meal and i weill get you some food.

If you have the meal, you have the food. If neo has the eyes and you go get neo, you have neo.

But the thing IS.....

who even EATS a happy meal?

Back on topic, I still think that it is either Seraph, or even stronger beleif, That Mero Wants her dead and wants her eyes.





maybe because the recepy for the cookie is permently engraved in her retina.





who knows?







p.s. yes, i still am not off the cookie experience.

It is not Seraph. Seraph is with Trinity, Morpheus, etc. when the go into Club Hell. You can see him in the commercial (Help?) and the trailer. Look at the overhead shot where the gun is reaching the top of it's arc. (He is just to the left of the gun kicking someone.) If M. wanted him, he would have just tried to take him there (or demanded him).

As for Neo having/not having the Oracle's eyes, it is quite possible. The Oracle has the vision. She sees M. coming after her for this enhancement. She knows if he gets it, he will have even more power and be unstoppable. So, she gives it to Neo. To hide it. To safe guard it. To give the one person who can possibly defeat M., Smith, Archie, etc. more power and a better chance. Like any program, it might take time to activate. M. wouldn't know if she gave it away. And since it seems to be her biggest asset, wouldn't think that she would give it away.

interesting, sounds good to me

exactly what i meant. mero isnt all knowing. even though mero has neo captive, he doesnt necessarily know neo has the eyes of the oracle now.

Ok guys, there are alot of 'metaphores' in this movie for other things....think.....keymaker using literal keys to unlock different things(acctually computer programs), the 'back doors' being litterally back doors and other things along those lines....maybe this means that the oracles 'eyes' are not in a sense a sign of her death, but, they are the program that lets her see into the 'future'

Yeah... I certainly don't think that Mero wants the actual eyeballs of the oracle. That'd be gross now that I think about it.... Yes I imagine it's something like what you're saying -- the part of her that can see into the future. I agree with Tshirt too. Right on. At least that's what I got out of it....

i dunno, Mero seems like the kind of guy thats ruthless and coniving, just such a guy who would want a person offed, and using his enemy to do it...anyway, i think that he wants her coding, what makes her tick, so he can have the power that she has...

and then smithy beats him to the punch

Hmmm... yeah he sure does.

i just thought of something last night, when i was looking at mythology and the like...Teriesias, the blind prophet, wasn't always a prophet. His eyes were taken from him by the gods i think, but he was given the "sight" by a god because he felt sorry, or something like that...Perhaps, by Mero saying that he wants the Oracles eyes, he means he wants o take from the Oracle that which inhibits her sight, so that she can see everything, the BIGGER picture, and she can see beyond all the decisions...Beyond the end...

But that would be... nice Which I must admit, seems out of character for Mero....

What do you think...

Mero did not say anything about the eyes of the Oracle. I know a french accent when I hear one, it was dubbed. someone else said it.

If Neo has a piece of smith in him I think he would be able to feel sentinel movement. If you remember back to Matrix 1 after the helicopter scene, the agents say that the sentinels are in place and to order the strike. I think that agents have a direct feed with the sentinels, and, if they do, I imagine Neo would have it now too.

hmmm... Now that I think about it, that seems to make sense. And if he could be linked up to them then couldn't he give them the good ol' self destruct command? Well, maybe not a self destruct... but certainly with a link, and him being the One I could see how he could do some damage to them/stop them. Just a thought...

I can live with that theory.

simple> that may be a bit too complicated to explain to the simpletons in rev

(not saying your wrong)

LOL ... too funny...

Well, it seemed pretty simple to me.

icansee> You're back on earth...welcome back!!

Omega> I dont think the Architect actually controls any aspect of the matrix, because he was watching Neo all his life, but didn't send agents to kill him, why?

Being an Agent means they are an Agent of somebody's. Now the system isn't a somebody, so it would then go to the person in charge of the system - The Architect. They are indeed his Agents but as we know, one of them has grown out of control due to Neo's inteference

so MR SPEAK is archie?

Whar if they are just "agents of the system" autonomous of guidance, just...there

jediHDM> I kinda agree with what you're saying jedi. They seem to really be separate entities... autonomous, as you put it.

which brings up another good point about agents...

*turns to speak to the entire room*

They think on there own, they move on their own, they even seem to develop on their own (Smith developed a hatred for the Matrix in the first movie). They do however, seem to do a lot of things together. They work very close together, they even finish each other's sentences. But, I think that is something more akin to how twins, or in this case triplets, will be closely linked. They are separate people, but deeply connected.

Subsequently, I do not believe they are a hive mind (in which case they would all literally share the same thoughts). Otherwise the other agents would have known what Smith was doing when he ordered them to leave and he stayed behind to talk to morpheus. If you remember, they asked him "what are you doing?" and then said "He doesn't know" (regarding Neo and Trinity as they were breaking into the building). Sooo, if they were hive a mind, they would've known what Smith was doing, and he would've known what was going on.

ok, that may have seemed off topic, but I've heard a lot of people get confused before about how the agents behave and work together.

But... back to their being autonomous... I think that is true. In fact, I believe that agents in a way help to build up the prophecy. I'll try to explain. The prophecy makes a big deal about there being a One who can transcend all barriers and can even beat Agents. AGENTS, who are the super beings of the Matrix. No one can touch them (everyone who has stood their ground against an agent has died)... except the Omega... err -- I mean the One.

I think it's clear that the architect does not want Neo killed. He wants him to come to the source and choose a door. But, the agents Do think they are supposed to kill Neo. They don't know that they are a form of control. Or that they just prove to everyone else that the One really is THE ONE. They don't see that they Can't stop him (or her) and that they are just going to bolster his (of her...) resolve. They just think that their Purpose is to find all those trying to get free and destroy them. It's kinda sad in a way. The agents are being played too. Or at least it seems like it...

So, although they do seem like agents of the system, they also seem like they are not given the whole story. They are serve a dual role. On one side, they limit the amount of people getting free of the matrix (and this is the side that they are aware of). And on the other side, they serve as punching bags for the One when he finally emerges. They don't stand a chance against him. And everyone else gets to see that the one really is The ONE. Which helps the prophecy. So they don't see how they are another level of control....

hmmm... I don't know if any of this is right, but it sure seems interesting....

thoughts?

Um I don't know if this has already been said but maybe he refers to the Oracles ability to SEE the future or something. Hence the eyes.

Simple> Exactly...This is why i think MWAM...if the agents, in the matrix, are autonomous, why would the Sentinels, the seeming agents of the real, be any different. Sure, maybe they can be contacted by the system, to find people or be found, but they operate on their own, hence, the Source has no control over a sentinel in that, if the Sentinel is going somewhere, the Source cant just make it go somewhere else, it has to CHOOSE to go there, so, Neo cant exert control over them, in that he can CONTROL them...He has to rewrite their code, or what governs them, the natural laws...Hence, he uses his mind to stop them, like bullets...If that makes sense...

Hi, everyone. I'm new to this board, but I saw this fascinating discussion, and had to post in it...these are just my opinions on the topic...

What the Merovingian wants when he requests "the eyes of the Oracle" is her ability to see into the future. Despite his apparent disdain for her abilities as evidenced in Reloaded, he actually desires that ability, which sets the Oracle apart from (and above?) all of the other programs in the Matrix. He also makes the comment that he's heard that the Oracle's eyes "cannot be taken, only given"-meaning that the ability to foreknow is always within the Oracle's control-it cannot be taken from her by force. This is important, because it casts Smith's 'takeover' of the Oracle's abilities in a new light. When viewed with in the context of the Merovingian's previous statements, it becomes obvious that the Oracle wants Smith to have the ability-in his case, it becomes another form of control. Instead of overwhelming Neo with superior numbers, he attacks him one on one, specifically because 'he has already seen that moment.' The 'vision of victory' spurs Smith on to the one moment in which the Oracle's manipulation of him becomes obvious-when he utters the line that "everything that has a beginning has an end." Neo has attempted until that moment to overpower Smith....but he can't (as was evident in Reloaded). The Oracle's words as spoken by Smith remind Neo, however, of the beginning of this form of Smith....he was created when Neo entered him in The Matrix. Thus, the 'ending' of the circle comes about when Smith 'enters' Neo, and discovers to his dismay that he should have been content with the bodies he already had...

Just my 2 cents...

at the end of revolutions when smith has neo beat, and says " wait this is the end, i've seen this before" then goes on to say " everything that has a beginning has an end" then he states he doesnt know what the hell he is saying. does that mean the oracle took control of smith? i mean seeing how she was assimulated by him

does that mean the oracle took control of smith? i mean seeing how she was assimulated by him

IMO, that's exactly what it means...Remember that Smith is initially confused about how he has managed to corner the Oracle. Theoretically, that should be impossible...Seraph has access to the keys that allow them to travel in and out of the 'programmer's backdoors,' as evidenced in Reloaded. Combine that ability to instantly be anywhere with a foreknowledge of your enemy's movements, and you've got the one person that Smith should never be able to assimilate. Even he knows this...which is why he can't understand how he has cornered her if she knows everything in advance. The Oracle, however, refuses to give him insight (which proves to be a very different thing than foreknowledge), and he 'assimilates' her by force. However, her eyes can't be taken by force...meaning that Smith has just walked into a very nasty trap.

The reason why Smith gets so confused at the end is because he has seen that moment with his 'stolen' ability to foresee the future, but he is unable to see past his own choice...the choice to destroy Neo rather than change. As you point out, the Oracle still lives within that version of Smith....not in active control at all, but just waiting for the opportunity to momentarily manipulate him by making him see the moment through her 'eyes'...

ahhh ok thanx. I thought thats what happend just wasnt to sure

i think after that scene, Trinity killed all of them.

Legend> Nice comments! And welcome

Thank you for the welcome and your kind words

this is my thot.the eyes of the oricle simply meant the ability to forsee the future.more like what smith managed to do when he copied himself onto the oricle.seraph just wanted that ability so that he gains power.he is just a swindler in the movie.in m2 he had the key maker locked up in his basement and in m3 he smuggles the girl and hides neo.if he had the abilities to forsee the future then he would know what to do with the programmes for his gain.at the moment he just smuggles them.