Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The new trailers, information and behind-the-scene stuff is giving me an information overload. I can’t find threads from three days ago, some threads are here in two or three copies, so let’s see if we can keep the info collected.

1) Neos’ not in a coma. He’s plugged IN without being so physically. (Thread: behind the scenes).
2) The Eyes of the Oracle? Who is that? (thread: Bring me the eyes of the oracle)
3) The little girl next to Neo when he wakes up on Mobil Ave. (Thread Father of the Little Girl )
4) What with Mobil Ave, Limbo and Loop (thread: Mobil Ave, Hel Club, and Neo )
5) What’s the deal with Neo being blind-folded (thread: Blind but not blind)


But there are a few questions I’d like to address:
Simplepriest has an excellent review of the entire Movil Ave (Limbo), Loop train, Mero’s club Hel in his thread. But

1) Why is Neo IN Limbo? Why has his digital self changed, he’s wearing something else? How did he get to Mobil Ave?

In the behind the scenes thread, we learn that Neo is NOT in a coma at the end of Reloaded. He’s still plugged in, just not physically.

2) Wireless? But how? How did it happen? It does go a long way to explain how Neo stopped the Sentinels. Some threads are discussing that perhaps the Oracles red piece of candy has given Neo “The Eyes of the Oracle”. Neos mind touched the Source, and perhaps that’s how he can control the sentinels even if he’s not plugged in. There’s a copy of him (the Limbo-Neo) very very close to the Source.


Simplepriest, JediHDM, Sifer, Rys, Hoot, Urot, the usual suspects, ideas, comments?

It's a glich in the matrix. They changed something


I was thinking that when he has been "Wirelessly" plugged in, scince he had no control over it, he just poped up in Moblil (Limbo) ave. Because, he is in Like the White construct thingy, betwwen this world, and the machine world, thus Limbo, and from there he can get to anywhere methinks.

heres my two cents as jedi would say

mero trapped neos code - residual self image what have you - when he left the architects, as mero is the exile daddy, and has him in limbo. but neo was still able to jack out
here is where i am confused. maybe because he is still in some kind of matrix, between both worlds, he can unconciously use powers in the real world... after this his rw self has 'some sort of coma' so he is just in the limbo world. ie. is like someone jacked in

i think that Neo has to get that little girl out, i think she is more important than even Neo...now

Omega> We basically think that the girl is THE one that the oracle is talking about because the pieces seem to fit. There is a family with two parents and a child, which at least fits with the number of people that the oracle talks about. The man was being led out of Le Vrai in Reloaded, which seems to fit with him being connected to the Merovingian. Since he is being Led out, not just leaving, it seems to fit with the idea that the Merovingian is the boss in that little relationship. And lastly, they appear to be stuck in limbo along with Neo, which, if you agree that limbo is controlled by Mero, seems to go along with the idea that Mero is trying to keep them imprisoned (probably because of their importance).

Anyhow, this seems like a lot of assumptions based on circumstantial evidence. But the pieces do seem to fit...

Any thoughts...

i like the idea that the loop is an analogy for a program loop. neo will have to break; (c command for getting out of a loop ) out of mobil ave somehow. i think the neo not looking like keanu reeves thing isn't coincidental. they (the wachowskis) wouldn't **** up so badly in a theatrical trailer, especially since matrix 1 and 2 had lots of stunts that are more dangerous than that one, which _WERE_ done by the actual actors.

as for the eyes of the oracle, everybody seems to think that because mero asks for the eyes and neo is so blatantly blindfolded in the trailer, that there's no connection, since it would be too obvious. i however do think this ties into the 'significance of the cookie', as stated by the wachoskis in a chat session. another thing to note about this is this: if the oracle GIVES neo the 'eyes code', she doesn't necessarily lose it herself. that's the beauty of ones and zeros, program code can be copied easily (look at smith ).

more to come later, stay tuned

"Le Vrai" Means "The real" in french.

or The Truth

Nope, not the way its said. It would have to be "la Vériter"

in my french classes weve had to do exercises called 'le vrai au faux' meaning truth or false

I am french.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

go and type in Le Vrai and see what it gives you. One word: Truth

Le Vrai = Truth.

How many people are gonna know what Vériter is - not many - how many would know what Le Vrai means - alot more.

Adn try typing Vériter in Babelfish...it will translate it to - Veriter...LOL

FU¢K!!! NOT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN!!!!!! Do you trust a Computer system or a guy that spoke french all his life!!!! NOT THE WAY IT'S WRITIN "le Vrai" Means "The real"!!!!!!


Sorry, it pisses me off when a guy that spoke french is discarted by A CUMPUTER PROGRAm that can't even get it's verbs right.... trust me, i used bable fish before.

translate "the real" into frnech, it says "le vrai" THERE you go.

.

Well if you translate The Truth - you get la vérité (- the r ). Not that I don't trust you m8, but you could easily be a dyslexic French person (In case you didn't know, that was a joke...LOL)

I have slight dislexia, d,b.

What are the chances of that....OMG

*** Giglges like a school girl at the this conversation. ***

You had to go and do it when u know how i feel about the french.............

Crash> THAT first comment of yours was HILAROUS! I swear

Burlyman> Yes, we seem to all be able to agree that the Merovingian trapped Neo. The question is HOW? In another thread we discussed if we’re to take the Persephone/Hades allegory literal? Do ALL programs pass through the Underworld (aka Club Hell, Mobil Ave) on their way to the Source? Is that how the Mero becomes a haven for exiles? But even if that’s the case, how did Neo end up there?
He jacked out at the end of Reloaded. He talked to Trin, Link and Morph. How did he leave a residual residual self image behind?

Simplepriest> I agree the little girl does seem to fit in with all that WE know. But your average movie-goer doesn’t play ETM or read the comics. Up until the imprisonment. If the mother of the child is one of the Oracles “children” (The Oracle mentions them in M1 “I’ll get one of my kids to fix it” (the vase)), or just someone we’ve seen before I’m a happy camper.
See, if the little girl could be the Oracles programmed grand-daughter I see something emerging which would fit nicely: Namely the idea, that perhaps Rama (Indian God name, reincarnation and stuff like it) and his wife (Krishna?) has managed to create a program and plug it INTO an actual human pod. Such a child would be VERY important to both machines and humans.


Rys> But Neo is wearing the blindfold on and off, so it doesn’t look as if he’s eyes are injured (until what would probably be late in the movie, flying towards 01 or the battery towers).

a residual self image that mero seems to have altered while hes in limbo

hey do you think that the may be flying towards the battery towers to get the little girl out? hmm

You mean Like Hope?

Crash> From the comic about Hope I haven't been able to deduce WHAT that child is, save that she can apparently change her shape. I don’t know if that’s a program in a child or not or a prototype. Shape-changing in the real world is a little… weird. (Waits for JediHDM to announce his MWTM theory )
But Rama and his wife MAY have done that. With Smith/Bane we know it’s possible for an AI to get downloaded into a human.

she didnt change her shape in the real world, did she? I thought she only changed her shape in the matrix. If she DID change her shape in Real, then..
"then what"
"then you already know what im going to say, dont you?"

JediHDM> Ah. Yes. My mistake. I remember I initially thought it took place in the real word, because of Link and the reference to dragons (used to refer to Sentinels in ANOTHER comic).
Then someone was kind enough to point out that the comic-Link wasn’t the movie-link, and the comic was deduced to take place in the Matrix.

I did find some info on Ramachandra (yes, Rama is short for Ramachandra), but I think I'll post it in the appropriate thread

Uploading now...

Simple.com

And the Blind shall see... (part 1)

Ok... Simple here, taking another crack at these new trailers. "Oh what is it this time..." Good question. This is about the whole sequence of events surrounding Neo and his blindfold. We've all been trying to figure it out, put it all in order, and come up with some ideas about what's going on. Well, to make a long story, not as long, I took an in depth look at things again and I came up with some ideas. So... errhm... here they are:

Before I can start into this segment I have to point out something interesting that has to do with the last segment (Mobil Ave, Hel Club, and Neo). When Neo goes to see the Oracle he's in the same clothes as when he was in Mobil Ave. This seems to suggest that he saw her After he was freed from Limbo, but Before he jacked out --OR-- Before he got in Limbo and Before he jacked out. I imagine he sees her After he is freed from Limbo, but it certainly is possible to go either way. One hypothetical scenario might go like this:

Neo stops the Sentinels (either through his Bluetooth wireless technology, or through the fact that it's a MWAM -- depending on which school of thought you subscribe to). However, doing that is a huge shock to his system, and it sends him into a coma. Or perhaps (and this is kinda interesting) because his eyes aren't covered, his brain shuts down because he's getting too much information. (I imagine this is gonna be the explanation for the blindfold) So as we said, his brain is still connected to the Matrix and his residual self is stuck there, while his body remains in the "real" world (again depending on how you think). And... he is NOT physically jacked in. I think this may be because his brain was "confused/stuck" when he started to fry the sentinels. His mind was receiving information from both worlds, so his brain/residual self image just "picked one," which in this case was the Matrix (does this sound kinda flakey... well, I'll finish anyhow). Because of his "bad startup," he's dropped into Limbo, kinda like a Safe Mode start for Windows. But, like I said... I'm really making a big guess here. Please, if you guys find any merit to this idea (especially those of you who know more about computers) feel free to tear this apart or refine it as necessary.

Ok, well, when he does talk to the Oracle (whenever that may be) they have the discussion we've all heard on the clips:

(International Trailer> 0:00 to 0:17)
Oracle: Everything that has a beginning has an end. I see the end coming. I see the darkness spreading. I see death.

(International Trailer> 0:38 to 0:47)
Oracle: And you are all that stands in his way. If you cannot stop him tonight than I fear that tomorrow may never come.

(Final Trailer> 1:15 to 1:24)
Neo: Can Zion be saved?
Oracle: Tonight the future of both worlds will be in your hands, or in his.

(Power TV spot> 0:06 to 0:15)
Oracle: Soon he will have the power to destroy this world
Neo: And if I can't stop him.
Oracle: Than I fear that tomorrow may never come.

(Enemy TV spot> 0:10 to 0:14)
Oracle: One way or another, this war is going to end.

*Please note that these speeches are assumed to be to Neo, as we do not see them both together in the same scene. Also, note that some editing was probably done for effect. For example, the Oracle apparently says the same line in the second and fourth quote that I've listed. So, these quotes are to be taken with a grain of salt*

Ok, well as flakey as my suggestion may have been for the Limbo part of things, we DO know that Neo is connected to the Matrix even though he isn't plugged in. We get this information from the newly released behind the scenes clips on IGN(http://filmforce.ign.com/matrix/articles/451/451850p1.html?fromint=1). And when all is said and done, Neo and crew all jack out of the Matrix, leaving us in the "real" world. NOTE: At this point Neo's eyes are not hurt and he does not have a blindfold on. Also, at this point they will be playing a nice healthy game of musical ships, and since I don't really have enough to try to say "who's on what ship at what time" I'm not going to guess. Maybe I'll try to figure that out later, but I don't really see much hope in being able to figure that out yet... so... moving on...

Ahhh yes, and the moment we've all been waiting for. Mouse: "Bane is fighting Neo!"

They confront each other. They fight over the lightning gun (Final Trailer> 1:41 -- and the Power TV spot> 0:16 to 0:17, but is that Neo? I can't tell). And on some of the tv spots we can even see clips of Neo punching Bane (The End TV spot> 0:18), and dodging a blast (Enemy TV spot> 0:09/0:10). Notice that in the clip of Neo and Bane grappling for the gun, that Bane's face does not look as bloody/greasy/dirty (?) as it does in the following clip that we all know of:

(Final trailer> 0:51 to 1:00)
Neo: Who are you
Bane: Look past the flesh, and see your enemy.
Neo: That's impossible.
Bane: Not impossible. Inevitable.

Except for a cut on his lip, and some blood dripping from his nose Bane looks pretty much normal, until you get to the scene I just mentioned. These little details are easier to see on the ultra resolution trailer btw.

Before I noticed this I was toying with jedi's idea that Bane is deteriorating. But after seeing him in this fight, where he looks pretty much ok, I think it might be something else on his face. Maybe grease, or blood... I must admit though, his skin color Does look sickly, especially around his eyes. And as I said, the blood looks a little odd. Maybe he is sick or something... I can't really tell what's happening.

So, being that Neo is alive for the rest of the movie... I bet he wins Therefore I bet Bane loses and dies
Oh well... 21 gun salute... Taps... ok, moving along.

Now, the Second moment we've all been waiting for. *Ok... how do I put this...* we all know that Neo has a blindfold on in the real world. But why? I happen to believe in the idea of Neo's brain overloading and tripping out when he shocks the sentinels. Therefore, to keep that from happening again, he covers his eyes. Lots of other people have been suggesting something like this, and I think it's pretty feasible. With the blindfold on he can see what's going on in the machine world/matrix and not go into a coma. Also, this allows him to do what he did to the sentinels again. We see an example of this when he blows up the squiddy bomb (Final Trailer> 1:59 to 2:07). I'll come back to this thought in a moment... But first let me point out something else: I think this blindfold idea is why Bane is in a coma too (this is a big maybe tell me what you think of it).

I imagine the events surrounding Bane went something like this. He sabotaged the counter attack and killed the crew on-board his ship.

Niobe: I can't believe it.
Ghost: We did it.
Sparks: Did what is the question.
Niobe: What do you mean.
Spark: I mean it didn't work. Whatever was supposed to happen, didn't happen. Something's gone wrong.

-Scene switch to various dead bodies in a ship... at the end we see Bane who is alive and well-
-Scene switch to The Hammer (it's the ship that finds Morpheus and his crew at the end of Reloaded)-
-An alarm rings-

Captain: What was that?
Man: I think it was an EMP.
Captain: How?
Man: No idea, but right now we can't reach 11, 4, or 7.

-Scene switch to Commander Lock-

Opera: Sir! We've just lost contact with the Icharus!
Lock: What!
Opera: and the Novalis, and the Caduceus!
Lock: How is that possible?
Man: I don't understand it, sir, but the line is broken.
Lock: God damn it, what the hell is happening?



Then as the sentinels are moving through the wreckage, he ends up having to use a power similar to Neo to stop them. It seems easy to imagine that Bane may have a connection to the Matrix and somehow be able to stop sentinels as well... with the same side effect of putting him in a coma. Why do I even think this is what happened? Well because we know he Is in a coma, and the reason Neo is in one is because of what he did to the sentinels. This kinda leads me to believe that Bane did the same thing, or something similar (maybe).

And the Blind shall see... (part 2)

Sooo, Neo and Trinity go towards the machine city, planing to bring Neo to the Speak machine, with the ultimate hopes of Neo being able to get some help to beat Smith. But what Simple... why does he need the machine's help? Well for one, Smith Is getting pretty powerful. Two, there's a good chance the Oracle told him to do it, knowing that he would need some sort of upgrade (like we've discussed before on other threads) in order to beat Smith. Three, if he Didn't need the machine's help, why wouldn't he just hack in like normal? Why go through all the trouble of infiltrating their territory and walking up to their head machine? Seems kinda dangerous if he wasn't doing it for a reason. Four, he want's to arrange a deal with the machines. They know they need Neo to stop Smith. And Neo is probably trying to get them to call off the seige of Zion. So, as we said, Neo makes his way there... to the big, bad, Speak machine

(Final Trailer> 0:15 to 0:33)
Speak machine: Speak. (duh...)
Neo: The program Smith has grown beyond your control. You cannot stop him. But I can.
Speak machine: And if you fail?
Neo: I won't.

Note that in one of the clips it appears as if the face turns into a large hand reaching out for Neo (Help TV spot> 0:05 to 0:06)

Also note that Neo does not have any of the cuts or scrapes around his eyes in this scene. Again, if you have the high res trailer it's easier to see all these things. The machines and Neo agree to work together and... duh dada duhhh... Super neo is Born. What I mean is, I believe the machines give him some kind of new... Something, that'll help him in the battle against Smith. Where does the orange corridor fit in? That... is a very good question. I've got a lot of different thoughts about that one. First of all, I don't remember who said it, but somebody said that the orange glow might be the way Neo sees things when he has the blindfold on, similar to Shadow Vision in Daredevil. In other words, that's what his mind sees. And he can see all the things that have to do with the machines like that. That sounds pretty interesting to me, and I think that may be what's going on here. I think the tunnel is either a tunnel Neo goes through on his way up to the Speak machine (which then opens up to the platform that we all see him standing on). Or it's a tunnel he goes through after the talk with the speak machine, in which he gets upgraded. I'm not really sure on this one. If anyone else has an idea please let us know.

Well, then comes the third moment we've all been waiting for... The fight against Smith.

Ahh, wasn't that a good fight... Very nice. So anyways, moving along... Now Neo jacks out, and something very bad is happening. The machines are going ahead with thier attack on Zion! And they're sending in the entire fleet. Those bastards... in the words of Mero, "Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d'enculé de ta mère!" Sorry about that. Ok back to business. Why do I think this is what's happening? Well that large fleet of squiddy bombs, destroyers, and other assorted bad things is on their way somewhere. And when the thought crossed my mind that they might be heading to Zion, it seemed to make sense to me. Think about it, they still want control. They've gotten what they want out of Neo (the destruction of Smith). Now they have to stop the rebels. They cannot lose. And at this point they're ready to cut their losses, destroy Neo, and start the process over. As the architect said, "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. They are ready to stop this whole thing and get rid of Neo. He's too powerful -- which is kind of an interesting thought. Neo and Smith have grown beyond thier Control. Hmmm... (wow... this is a big Maybe... but I think it fits. Let me know what you think folks)

So, as I said, now Neo is out. The question is where does he get those cuts from. Maybe from a big fight to get back to the ship (remember, the machines might want to kill him at this point). Maybe from a bumpy ride on-board the ship as they try to hurry out of there. I'm not really sure yet. But as I said, I don't think it's from the Bane fight because Neo's eyes are not hurt when he talks to the Speak machine.

Now, Neo and Trin make their move. They try to intercept the machine army, and do what they can to stop them or slow them down.



(Final Trailer> 2:00 to 2:03)
Trinity: If you tell me we'll make it I'll believe you.
Neo: We'll make it. We have to.
*Note that you must view one of the TV spots to see Neo say "We have to" with his blindfold on (Enemy TV spot> 0:25)

We see the scenes of Neo blowing up squiddy bombs (Final Trailer> 1:59 to 2:07).

And here's an interesting one, that we've all been wondering about. We see what kinda looks like a sentinel crashing into their hovercraft, smashing through the window, and then flying Through/Into Neo!?! As Link would say, "I can't take this." *crashes back into chair in disbelief* So what's going on here? Well, a lot of different things are possible. First thing that raises it's disturbing little head: MWAM. Next, uhhh, Neo's the one, and he can just do that now. Sure... right. Next, it's simply from a different scene (very likely). I even toyed with the idea that the machines are messing with his head. Using his bluetooth in reverse, trying to trip him up a little. I know, I know, but I was just toying with that idea... Well anyways, it appears to be a sentinel crashing into/through Neo. I don't know how it happens, but I do know why I believe this. If you look at the scene really closely, and frame by frame, it looks like the same angels an everything for this to be what's really happening. Everything from the sentinels size, trajectory, to where Neo's hands are a moment before. I even noted that the sentinel is the only thing he sees in the golden vision, which follows along with the Neo Shadow Vision we talked about earlier (only things the machines are connected to show up in that orange glow).

So maybe this is what's happening... and, of course, maybe not. Please let me know what you think of these ideas. Anybody can feel free to add or subtract from this. I just hope this can be a good starting point for our thoughts on the whole situation. Ok folks, keep digging... and let us all know what you come up with.

Ladies, Gentlemen, the floor is yours

Simple, signing out

wow, thats alot of info...good, but alot...anyone have the ETM FMVs? I could REALLY use them, cause i dont remember ANY of this...

Yeah it is alot. It's more for the people who haven't read the hundreds of little posts that are scattered through different threads. This hopefully puts all the ideas in one place. Maybe. Anyhow... here it is. Please proceed to add or subtract....

and don't worry... I plan on keeping things Simpler from here on out (more brief).

hope this helps... or at least doesn't hurt

dang, more like Preist then simple, LOL, hehe, the time line, the background, and the philosophy is the best explanation i have read as far as a whole goes, It seems to me, that u have picked up anything and everything possible without seein the movie, the guesses seem to fall in line with the story,and i would not doubt that the W Brothers are gonna send agents to your room to take you out, lol, well, we will see, but i feel like i already watched the movie, now we get to see it with special affects, yay, lol, GOD BLESS

No, Simple, jack out, now, i cannot have a wingman die on me, before our first mission, it's not good luck, nor is it feasible to train someone else...

Operator, get Simple an exit, NOW!!

navykidd> yeah... I really typed a lot didn't I...
Thanks a lot for the comments though. I tried to put some serious thought into it. Yeah, at this point, I'm afraid I may have spoiled the movie for myself It'll be kind of neat to see how many of our guess turn out to be true... what a minute... did you hear that noise... Are you sure this line isn't tapped?

Holy crap -- Operator I need a way out of here! Now!!

*Agent WB follows Priest in Hot pursuit*

navykidd> I just now caught what you said about special effects. LOL I'll have to try to whip something together for you **No, down Priest, down -- Simple beats Priest with a chair : **

lol,

"whats Preist doing"
"he is beggining to believe"

hey preist, do what we all do when we see a WB agent, run, run your A$$ off, lol

OPERATOR, WHERE'S THE D@MN EXIT?!?!?!

*bullets whizzing by*

Kiss my code you agent scum. I'ma send you back to the source where you belong! *Priest returns fire*

*Priest stands over the dead WB agent, victorious*

He's still only a machine.... Now operator, how 'bout that exit.

Simple, you had me worried there for a second...alright, the exit is at Smith and Wesson...and hurry up, could ya?

SimplePriest> Very nice essay.

Your idea, that Neo goes into a coma, BECAUSE he’s not blindfolded at the end of Reloaded is an EXCELLENT idea.
“Irrevocably human” comes to mind. He may’ve transcended his predecessors, but he’s “just a man,” as the Mero says.
It makes perfect sense.
However: I think that when he jacked out after rescuing Trinity a copy of his residual self-image/digital self was already left behind in the Matrix. Or a part/shadow of his digital self.
The copy wasn’t fully formed at that time, but the duplication happened when Neo visited the Architect.
Imagine, if you will, that the Architects two-door choice was a hoax. The choice was an illusion, and only there to make the One THINK he had a choice. Trying to return to the Matrix would kill the One, and thereby delete his digital self (incl. The anomaly) and send it straight to the Source.
But since Neo was driven by something as machine-elusive as love, it didn’t work. The frame of a copy was created instead, (or his digital self was divided) and it did reach the Source, but wasn’t deleted as it wasn’t really Neo’s residual self-image.
So either not all of Neo’s digital self returned to him, or a shadow of it was left near the Source.
When the sentinels attacked in the real world at the end of Reloaded, Neo became instantly aware of this connection/duplication. The “bad set-up” sounds good to me.

We do see Neo waking up in the real world. But how is he jacked out? We know the “copy” (lets’ call it that for now), will be used later on in the movie, to deal with the sentinels, when Neo and Trin flies to (presumably) 01.

Bane vs. Neo. “See past the flesh.” Does that mean, that Smith is aware of Neo’s ability to be both in the real and the virtual world at the same time?? If Bane/Smith is still in contact with the Matrix, as Simple suggests, then it makes sense.

The Speak-machine probably gives neo Smith’s termination code. Or something along the lines. And upgraded Norton Virus killer. Something which Neo ahs to “insert” into the original Smith to delete him.

Orange glow: I’m not really sure WHAT to think here. If Neo sees past Bane’s exterior, to the machine CODE of Smith, it’s conceivable that Neo sees in machine-code, period.
But he sees inside the Matrix itself, and Smith is a Matrix entity. Corridors and Sentinels are not in the Matrix, nor do they have representations in that virtual world, that Neo could “see”.
So that doesn’t really make any sense.
T
I’m back to Seraph’s golden code. How does Neo get upgrades from the Machine-world? I think that’s the golden tentacles. The machines also need to RESTORE his digital self, his residual self-image to that, which we see in the final fight with Smith. Until that time we only seen Neo in the limbo-suit.
I still think the glowing corridor and golden tentacles happen after the Speak-machine plugs into Neo. Usually when, plugged in, the transferral to the Matrix is instantaneous. But Neo needs upgrades and to get all the parts of his self-image back together (that may also be why he needs the machines. They can do that).
Since Neo visits the Speak-machine probably right after he’s been stopping sentinels, his digital self can’t be uploaded as usual. It’s already INSIDE the Matrix.
This would go along with SimplePriests idea, that Neo visits the Oracle RIGHT after he’s rescued from the Merovingian. He’s probably powerless in that state. The anomaly code is in the real-world Neo, while the digital self is like a normal human beings.

So the Speak-machine has to give him udgrades and join Neo’s very real-world looking self-image with his residual Matrix self. That’s what the corridor and golden tentacles do. Neo is “walking” inside a cable so to speak. Inside a computer software program.

The Omega> thanks for your comments...

I'm going to sit down and think about some of those other points that you brought up... They were all good. If you think of anything else please let me know.

(lol, I could probably come up with a pretty good fake spoiler if I tried. I should watch some harry potter previews and go terrorize their forum JJ, of course )

there is also a orange image of smith saying "I am not such a bad guy, once you get to know me"(or something to that effect) the important part is "once you get to know me" this makes me think hes talking to the oracle, which means she also see orange code????? hmmmm not sure, anyone? im sure it has to do with the "get me the oracles eyes" quote huh?

Simple> Statistically we should get one or two things right.
Or maybe, by the time I leave the theatres on November the 5th the W-brothers will, again, have mesed me up totally

Another point:
I do not think the machines cheat on Neo. Notice, that the machines have not lied this far. They may withhold the truth (The Oracle certainly has about Neo’s predecessors), but they haven’t lied. SO IF the Speak-machine is to agree to make a truce with mankind, if Neo cleanses the Matrix of the Smith-virus I think it’ll work.
I think Neo fights the legion of Smith WHILE the sentinels are attacking Zion. If he wins there will be a truce, if he looses… well, goodbye human race.
And then Neo will indeed END the war after all. That would be SO Wachowski. M1: Neo is THE ONE. M2: Yeah, but it’s just a program-code and a system of control, “The One was never meant to end anything.” M3: Well damn. Neo DOES stop the war. Maybe, as Niobe says, “I still don’t. I believe in him.” It’s not The One who ends the war, it is Neo (and then we can debate endlessly about free will and choice ).

What is the question that drives them? What is it they really want?

Love...

Have fun

Everything begins with choice:

"It Ends Tonight!"

Omega> You astound me once again. That's an excellent idea about Neo and ending the war. Wow, maybe we should stop trying to figure this movie out. I think we're going to spoil it for ourselves.

Whether or not we're right, we certainly are coming up with a very good story

SimplePriest> Ah, thank you!

Maybe we will SPOIL it for ourselves. But:
Look at it this way: Now we have something that looks like an idea of how Revolutions begin. Mobil Ave, Limbo-Neo, little girl, Rama, club Hel, Mero/Perse, fighting. Neo visits Oracle, wake up. Fights Smith.

And we have an idea about how it all ends: Trin/Neo to 01 (Speak-machine). Neo’s jacked in, gets up-grades, fights Smith. Machines attack Zion.

It’s really not THAT much. And certainly not a 2 + hour movie. So what in Neo’s name happens in the middle? What are we missing? What is NOT in the trailers?
Morpheus has to find Niobe/Ghost and Sparks. Okay. But what else?

You think it's gonna end like that? I have a feeling it's gonna be alot more special than that. More than upgrades

Sifer> Those up there were the general “ideas”. The entire point is, that we’re missing the “middle” of the movie. Everything in the trailers can either be placed as “this is probably in the beginning” and “this could likely be near the end”.

I do think that a truce/deal between man and machine would be a nice twist. And much more Wachoski-like than “it’s all about love.” That, IMHO, is too much like a bad soap-opera.

Here, here...

All of that is nice and dandy, but, you say that the digital Neo is powerless, a regular human because of the "swap". We see Neo get punched by the Trainman, he nearly goes through a wall, how could he still be a normal human if he nearly gets punched through a wall and looks up as if he was'nt even phased...

And:

"I love you too damned much"

ISN'T Soap Opera? Hrmmm, interesting.

Oh and not to mention that both films, before the very end, it has been about love.

Here is a theory I’ve come up with.

When Neo Morpheus and Trinity first went to see Merovingian, it felt to me that they were simply pawns in a game between the Oracle and Merovingian - M even knew that the Oracle sent them. Now, we know that Persephone kissed Neo, and some believe there might have been some kind of program attached to the kiss. We also know from ETM that the Oracle speaks of a child that she promised to protect, and the child’s parents. Finally, we believe that Merovingian has Neo trapped at the Mobile Ave. station.

Here is what I am thinking. The Oracle knows that Merovingian has the child. She needs/wants/promised to protect the child. She believes/knows that Neo is her best protection and that there is no way to get there, unless they let Merovingian trap you. She also knows that Merovingian would want to trap or obtain Neo’s powers. So, she sends Neo over to see Merovingian, expecting that he will be caught and put in the same prison as the child. This way, Neo could then protect the child. Additionally, the parents have the Oracle’s termination codes. This is something the Oracle wants to protect. So sending Neo there is to her benefit.

Merovingian, expecting a visit from Neo (because all the other “Ones” have come to him before) has Persephone give Neo a kiss with a program in it. The program is a tracking/copying program. When Neo jacks out of the Matrix after saving Trinity, Merovingian still has a connection to Neo. This is how Neo is in both the Matrix and the real world. And this is how Merovingian traps Neo. But, because Neo was so close to the Source, he now can see or feel or operate things in the machine world, through the source. (His mind in the matrix is talking with his mind in the real world – that is why things “feel” different.)

Neo is in a coma like state because his mind in the Matrix it doing all the work, so his body in the real world is hanging limp just like when people normally jack into the Matrix.

Another Smithy> By “Normal” I mean as “normal” in the Matrix as, say, Trinity or Morpheus when they’re jacked in. I’m tryng to figure out why Neo doesn’t wear his “The One” outfit at Mobil Ave.

Sifer> Love is part of being human. But it’s not all there is to life.

Tshirt> The Oracle never promised to protect anything. She said she LET the two programs sell the termination code of her old shell to the Merovingian. And she did that, because she believes that one day the child would be important to man and machine alike.
Are you saying, that when the Oracle sends Neo and co. to the Mero to get the Keymaker, she’s really sending him there to get caught? It doesn’t work. The father of the child isn’t seen UNTIL Neo and co. reaches the Mero’s restaurant, and in ETM Ghost doesn’t meet with the oracle (who explains her new look) until later in the parallel story (around the end actually).
And if Persephones Kiss was a tracker/copyer, then Niobe and Ghost would be copied as well. It’s been explained in may articles by now, that Persephone and Mero are two jaded old programs, a little like emotional vampires. Think old European aristocracy: Rich, wealthy, bored to death.

persephone is an emotional vampire
the merovingian is a trafficker of information

I didn't say it was all there is to life. Who is the one being evasive now.

(Slaps forehead).
Yes, HUMAN love! It is an ASPECT of human life, but the struggle in The Matrix is not for the RIGHT to love. It’s for freedom, free will, about choices, and the consequences of choices. About the things, ALL the things, that makes us human. Our ability to love is just an aspect of being human (which btw: is so abused in modern entertainment it’s sickening. 99 % of ALL songs are about love, 80% of all movies. I can SEE where this theory is coming from: Earth 2003. )

80% of movies? more like 99% has love of some kind in

Wow are you guys arguing, err I mean debating on this thread too



you should just go jedi style and enter "aggresive negotiations!"

And I don't mean jediHDM, just jedi like the movie.

Simple> that WOULD be Jedihdm style...

ROFLMBO!! you're right, you're right my mistake
wow you guys really crack me up. I'm glad I got on this forum.

hehehee

Yeah, i'm glad i got on this forum too...to tell you the truth, i cant really remember WHY i came here...i really cant remember what led me here...

Gimme my dual Lightsabers, and I'll kick anyone's ass...LOL

Omega> I think that the architect has changed the matrix so Neo is going to die (slowly) He's in a other world now ====> trapped..
The new version of the matrix is slowly taking over.... Matrix7.0
Or maybe... matrix 6.1
But 7 is the holy number so I think the kid has to be the one. Neo is number six that's nufing===> unless someone can find something on it....

matrix 3.6 isnt it

perfect world > monumental failure
redesigned > again disappointed
current matrix> 6 upgrades

Burlyman> Probably MORE than 80 %. A lot more, if you take main-stream movies only.
Wouldn’t it be.
Matrix 1.0 Perfect world
Matrix 2.0 new attempt
Matrix 2.1 Upgrades?

JediHDM> I THINK there is a feature somewhere, that lets you locate your first post. Maybe that’ll solve the mystery of what lead you here… ?
Fate? Purpose?

Has anyone noticed in 2:15 in the theatrical trailer that a hovercraft crashes on the ground but the sky is CLEAR? And there is the moon also! It is definitely outside of the matrix. Why should they use hovercrafts inside the matrix?

It's Matrix XP SP1

From a still shot, it looks as though a hovercraft popped up from beneath the clouds and then drops back down.

Yes but there are not so many clouds. The sky is like how it is on a rainy day. But what does that mean anyway? The war is over? The "scorched" is cleaned? And I am sure that by putting this scene as the last one in the trailer they want to tell us something.

I think it just means they went Above the cloud cover. We all understand that the clouds do not go up forever, right? When you fly on a plane, you go above the cloud cover. I think this is what they did. They just went above it. I guess I might need to say that in scorching the sky, the humans did not blanken every cubic inch of atmosphere around. That would be pretty much impossible for us to do anyway. We just covered up most of it, in a dense black cloud. This blocked out the sun whish was all we wanted to do. But if you were to fly above it you would pop out eventually, and see blue sky. I think that's what we're seeing here.

I think I might even have an explanation for the trip above the black cover.
In the “1:59 trailer” thread, a massive ship is firing and it’ not a sentinel. It did look as if it had organic tubes for fetus harvesting.
Now, what if Neo/Trin on their way to 01 (OR the Speak-machines place of residence, maybe the battery towers) have to pass these fields? They may be vast fields surrounding the battery towers. Humans have probably tried to sabotage these field-machines before, hence they’re armed.
To avoid damaging the growing humans, the hovercraft instead swoops up high, to get out of firing range, and to drop down near the towers/speak-machine?
The sky is blue, but darkish-blue, as if it's high altitude.