Veteran Forum

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BackFire349
A forum for people who have been here over a year or so... would be a good insentive for people to stay around.

G.P
But wouldn't some younger members (I am ) feel a little ostracized because they couldn't participate...
It may be a good idea and may agree with it (at least for the 'veterans', who could talk there as they used to before the rising of members last summer). But does the forum really need to try to keep its member ?


PS : I don't know if I am the right member to give my opinion here. I'm still a newbie, after all...

BackFire349
Well it would give you something to look forward too, plus i know several veteran members who would love it for sure. It would be something of a reward to those who have stuck with it.

Ushgarak
GP is right, people really do feel ostracised by such things and then we get into all sorts of hassle with people trying to become veterans and then compalining of bias when we do not see them as such.

The areas for the mods and JC members are the closest you get, and they are a necessity.

yerssot
hmmmm, tricky business, BF...
with that some members would feel like outcasts, a section where they are like ... prohibited to visit while the ones who can are also "just" members.

though I do think I know what feeling you have to get this forum through

Phoenix
dont know if veterans the right word. cos you would all say I'm a pretty active member, and most people know me, but I've only been here six months. and everyone loves lindsy and silver_tears, and theyve only been here a coupla months, and theyve posted more than me

yerssot
well, I like you phoe smile
just a few more months and you're off the newbie-list wink

BackFire349
as has been discussed before, post cound does not equate to credibility.


And i guess you're right us, never thought of the hassle it would induce. oh well stick out tongue

yerssot
oh, no hassle intended huh wink

BackFire349
nah, i just know many of the old veterans dont come around as much because of how hectic the forum is, i thought it would be nice to give them a place that would be the way the forum used to be.

yerssot
well, perhaps some, but some because of having equired a real life

BackFire349
nah stick out tongue

julibug
well, to throw in a thought - the gdf doesn't seem so overwhelming as it did for awhile before the otf was created. perhaps avoiding the super high-paced, less coherent areas would be all that is necessary. while i post there a little, i find the gdf, and various other areas of the site calmer and more welcoming. make sense?

BackFire349
yeah, thats very true, the gdf is very calm these days, with the otf taking all the traffic.

Captain REX
Yes, I agree...

LindsIsTightK
I guess this idea has already been discussed but I personally have neutral feelings on it. I'm a newbie so my opinion may not be the best but I really think that your member status should start to be decided by your socialization on KMC.

I personally feel that I am not a newbie, even though to all of the vet members I really am. I have made tons and tons of friends from here and even if I have never talked to the member before, I usually almost always know who that person is.

Just because I have only been a member since June, doesn't mean I haven't put in as much time and effort as the vet members to get to know people on KMC better, and also get to know how KMC works.

People change and forums change, things can't stay the same forever. I think that the vet members should stop trying to draw a line imbetween all of us because it just makes people feel more animosity towards each other.

BackFire349
Yes, but these veteran members, who have been here for years i think would enjoy a little forum for themselves, i feel they earned it, but again, the newer members would get upset that their was a forum that they couldnt view, so i guess it wouldnt work.

Ushgarak
The purpose of the OTF was to create a calmer GDF, of course, so if that is the effect then it is working just fine.

And we know forums evolve, Lindsay- I have seen it plenty of times- but on the other hand no-one has the right to come along and say that the established members who have made it what it is now have to be in a place that is run like the new people want it. Besides, the people who say that the oldies should change to like how the new people have made it now are normally the first to complain when a subsequent wave of posters wants to change it again. I've seen THAT several times as well...

Also, no offence, Lindsay, but you barely leave the OTF, so you can't really say you know how this place 'works'. You know how one section works- sure. But not the whole place.

However, I think this all demonstrates the big problems that would be caused by trying to tie down who is and who isn't a 'veteran' member. It really would cause resentment.

yerssot
linds, you seem to feel personally attacked judging your reply messed
I assure you, that was not the intention of anyone

BackFire349
It was just an idea, a way to give something to the poster who have been here the longest and contributed the most.

Linds, i agree, you are'nt a newbie, but i wouldnt consider you a veteran, just something in between. And in Linds' defense, i have started seeing her in forums other then the OTF lately, so thats good smile

Again, it was just an idea.

Fire
I agree with BF and Ush

altho I sure like the idea. I fear it would cause an only (bigger) problem with some members who consider themself veteran. Cause as Ush said it would be hard to define cause just postcount aint it

heck even I wouldn't consider myself a vet

yerssot
you are a n00b dude stick out tongue

BackFire349
It could be resolved by using the time you have been here, as oposed to post count, like 1 year would be good.

Fire
maybe tho that would leave semi-active ppl to become vets and semi-noobs who are active, in more than one section, to be left out

BackFire349
well if they've been here over a year they probably have put in a significant amount of effort to the forums.

Fire
smile if they are still active yea, but then again how do you register activity

BackFire349
hmmm, i see your point....

Fire
whiiiiii

Ushgarak
Indeed, time based is no good, it would exclude Kes but let in lots of people that were barely here at all but might pop back.

BackFire349
maybe a combination of posts and time.

yerssot
or maybe just no veteran forum

MaverickIce
That would mean kes is a newbie... blink

yerssot
technically she is

MaverickIce
good point, so I'm I also, damn.

LindsIsTightK
Although I may post in the OTF on a constant basis, doesn't mean I don't go into the other forums. I browse the other forums all the time but I rarely find anything worth posting about in there. Usually just because all the threads have gotten so off topic by the time I get to them or just because what I wanted to say has already been said.

Also I never said that I knew how KMC worked, being as I have only been here for a few months I don't think it is possible for me to know that much information.

Another thing, just because I post in the OTF all the time, doesn't mean that my posts are meaningless and have no substance. Granted not all my posts may mean something, but many of them do have a point to them. OTF or not.

On a final note, I never said I was totally against the veteran forum, just that it is proof that there is a line drawn between the vet members and the newbies. Realistically I can understand why the vet members would want a forum of their own, and I really wouldn't have a major problem with it, I would just feel somewhat left out.

BackFire349
well it's not happening, obviously there would be to many problems, so it doesnt matter.

Fire
True and I still believe there to be a somewhat subjective line in the minds of the "veterans" not that it is very visible or something. And I know ppl might deny this but from talks I had with "veterans" it seems that they all have that imaginairy line in their head (inc me). There are a few exceptions on the rule a few newer members who are (atleast for me) on the same side of the line as the "vets" but those are rather few.


PS: for me a veteran is someone who has been here a while, atleast almost a year, who posts in more than one section, who helps to keep thread On Topic, helps out other members, welcomes noobs, doesn't get offensif or defensif, doesn't go Off Topic in every thread and who spends time socialising with other members.

LindsIsTightK
That is a lot of different things and requirements a person has to meet to be a veteran member but I think it is good basis to judge whether or not a person is a newbie. I think that having all of those different factors makes a person have to earn their right as a well repsected member of KMC. I myself am willing to earn that title and I know that it just takes time.

I think it just depends on the member on whether or not a vet likes them or not. I am friends with quite a few older members who I was never friends with from the start. Frienship is an earned thing no matter what the circumstances are, and I think that each newbie has to earn that with all the members here, including myself.

BackFire349
Fire said it, there is indeed an invisible line in the minds of every veteran member (whether they admit it or not, its there) that seperates them from newer members. And all the aspects that fire said taht make a veteran are right on.

Fire
Thx Linds and BF

Ushgarak
To be fair, Linds, you did say you had made 'as much effort as the veterans... to find out how KMC works.". And no-one accused you of making posts with no value!

Dexx
besides, guyz..look at the technical point of view....a section hidden from everyone but the mods is easy to make because it's in the forum software...but to make one hidden to anyone but the vet members would be a new variable, deppending on who's a vet member (title wich would have to be remodelled) and a code written for accepting such an option....doubt raz will wanna do it. wink

grymlock
well i for one are here just to make a new friends that have a basic interest in movie and to have a good clean fun doesn't matter you are old school or new school ... i hope all forum are visible to us and no prejudices... just another reasonable thought...
cheers mate!!

Phoenix
to make it fair, you'd have to have a newbie forum as well as a veteran forum. and I'm agreeing with linds here - we have both been here a short span of tie, but I would consider us both active members, as we are on EVERY day! feel the pride with me linds!


*is proud*

G.P
"Welcome" and OTF forums are largely used by the newbies. I don't think they (we) need another one...

LindsIsTightK
I'm very proud Phoe big grin I put in a lot of time and effort in this place cause I love you all so much big grin

Dexx
still..the otf is terrible erm

yerssot
do expend dexx... what makes you say that?

Fire
OTF has its downsides and a few good ones, tho I dislike it more than I like it

and no offence phoe but being on every day doesn't mean that you are a "good" member

EXAMPLE: someone who is on everyday but only posts crap and insults ppl isn't a "good" member and will never be called a "vet".

BY NO MEANS DO I MEAN YOU (PHOE) BY THAT

yerssot
so, as vetrinaries, we DO get payed right?


sorry, could help it wink
well, all I see in this thread is malcontent... "veteran" posters saying that some are still newbies, and some "veteran" posters saying OTF isn't their cup of tea.
on the other hand some "newbies" (and I do use the " " here, since I don't want to hit against any heads) on the other hand, say that they like it there and that they do their best to fit in...

well, perhaps it's better to
1) keep it, since some (let's just say the percentage is unknown) like it
2) close it, since some (also unknown percentage) don't like it
3) let Raz deceide when he returns from holiday and blame everything on him big grin

Fire
lol there are better reasons to close it imo

G.P
Erm why not ? But in your opinion where are all the members, that only live in the OTF ,going to go ?
Rush to the GDF !!! *hides*

BackFire349
The GDF is a controlled environment however, and people wont be allowed to post the same type of irrelevent threads that they now post in the otf.

G.P
So it will be a fight between members that would like to speak freely and Mods that want something clean and pleasant...

Let's just open a dozen of "...Tavern" thread...

Going back would really be difficult now...

yerssot
no, it can be done GP, but then the GDF will get overrun anyway

G.P
I said "difficult", not "impossible".
I know it can be done...My point is that OTF should be regulated (to allow off-topic is one thing, but it doesn't mean to let-everyone-do-what-(s)he-wants). For example I think the interest of some threads is really questionable... (Who likes.... ? , Isn't ... great ?, How long is your hair/foot/ear/nose... );( Only one or two 'jokes & funny stuffs' thread(s) is (are) necessary)....

yerssot
well, what about a place where you can't make new threads, only reply, but off-topic threads from the GDF can be send to that place?

BackFire349
Thats what the off topic forum is for. Read the synopsis of it. "a forum with no rules, basically anything goes" It was meant to be the forum with no mods.

G.P
Then it should not have been entitled "Off-Topic forum" if there is no rule

BackFire349
why not?


The name implies that no matter how off topic a thread gets, the thread wont get closed. Basically, it's a forum for all the threads that you wanted to post, but that would have been closed in the other forums.

The name is perfectly fitting.

G.P
Not really, because the off-topic implies a predefined topic.
It should have been name the "free forum", "anything goes forum" or "No rules forum".
(I don't think this really matter, eventually. Let's not argue about such trivial matter).
What about a little regulation ?

Fire
I think yerss his idea is a good one
make a few general threads like jokes and so
and then have everyone who enters make 1 thread and no more after that

BackFire349
With regulation it would turn into the GDF.

Also, this thread is a good example of how the mentality of the otf has spread too the other forums on the board. This thread has gone way off topic since it's start, and should be closed according to the rules of the board. But, because of the menality of those who post on the off topic forum, and because many are used to the freedom to post anything in any thread, it remains up and it's complete irrelevence to the original topic goes unnoticed by all (except mods, and members who were here before the OTF). Thus, the otf is kinda hurting the other boards, because its made people used to the allowance of a thread going off topic, and thus they dont even attempt to keep it on topic.

yerssot
or, .. bf, mods haven't checked this thread since it went off-topic

BackFire349
i know, it was merely an example of how the oft menality has kinda caused the members to get used to the complete freedom of that board.

G.P
I think we're not really off-topic... The question of the Vet forum was related to a disappointement caused in some ways by the OTF.
Our discussion about this topic that your question has raised is just evolving... (except fo the matter of the title, maybe...)

To me allow the off-topic and not to intervene at all are two different things...You can regulate with allowing off-topic.
Actually it is slightly regulated (bad language, racism,...).

yerssot
yes, because no matter how you twist and turn it,
the server is in texas, so we abide by texas rules and regulations about the net

Fire
True BF True

that's why I say close the damn thing down and seriously reenforce the rules

LindsIsTightK
Personally I don't care much whether the OTF stays open or not. Granted I may be in there a lot, but I can live without it, and it isn't the reason I joined KMC in the first place. I also wouldn't mind it being closed for the simple reason that a lot of members who aren't really here for the right reasons would leave, making KMC a lot calmer and a more positive place.

BackFire349
anyways, this thread isnt about the OTF, we should make a new thread for that to be discussed, this thread is for the discussion of a veteran forum (which we now know to be an impossible dream stick out tongue)

Phoenix
Nonononononoonononononono no closint OTF!! It so happy and fun!! Maybe close the threads that are just bashing or wude, but not funny fun fun threads!!!




*has a tantrum*

Fire
well I think this thread can be closed, not much useful can be added anywayz

yerssot
I still don't get why people discuss it here messed
if a decission has to be made about a new forum it's Raz and the JC that makes it, not a few random members who stumbled upon this thread

BackFire349
discussion is usually a direct result of boredom, at least for me.

LindsIsTightK
Well why not talk about it? Maybe Raz and the JC members will read this thread and think some of us have made a valid point. Or maybe not, maybe we just like sharing our opinions with each other.

Ushgarak
Ok...

1. The existence or otherwise of the OTF is under discussion still

2. Trying to restrict the subject matter allowed in the OTF (beyond not allowing the offensive) is pointless. The main objective of the OTF was to allow the posting of nonsense but keep it out the GDF, As BF says, if we start to restrict that we would simply have two competing GDFs, whatever their names are. For all its failures, the OTF HAS returned a certain sense of stability to the GDF. IF the OTF is closed it has nothing to do with the mods- or anyone else- not liking it, it would simply be a matter of judging whether it is worth the hassle or not, considering its various disadvantages.

3. It might be called the OTF but that is only because that was its main purpose. It was always described as the place with no rules- a statement we expected common sense to be applied to.

4. A newbie only area is simply conceptually untenable. Newbie interests are perfectly well served!

5. A veteran forum is not, in my opinion, worth the hassle

Now that has all been commented on... ideas on a Vet forum only or nothing, please...

Fire
well I don't think there is much more to say
as you said it would take quite a lot of hassle and a second forum, the easy way out wouldn't be the same

BackFire349
yeah, close this thread ushy baby.

badkittykitty
wow fire this is impressive! I totally agree with your opinion herehttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/thumbsup.gif

Paola
confused
what's a JC member?? big grin

yerssot
the global mods, the guys and girls that can mod every section:
dim, gundark, queeq, ush, finti and mech and of course Raz

wicker_man
Although i can see the advanatages of having a Veteran Forum, i can also see disadvantages as well, a forum such as the one we are discussing would only create a divide between new and old members this could lead to alot of negative backlash from both sides involved, KMC is popular as it is and alot of users do return time and time again.

Dexx
awh..you ppl don't get it...it can't be done..even if you'd want to....

you can't sepparate a vet from a regular member....the board see it the same. There's a separate code for mods....there WOULD have to be one for vets also in this case..and the isn't.....that simple

Raz
Nope this is something we won't be doing.

yerssot
yet wink

Fire
THX BKK

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