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Ok, in "the second rennaisance part 2" near the end (like about 7.05 mins i think) there is a scene after the UN is destroyed. Then, there is that little boy playin in the snow (wouldnt it be dangerous? lol) anyway, as he is called to his house by HIS MOTHER (important that it is female voice) he then freezes in horror as 2 AGENTS!! are at his door. Now, my question is: if this is the REAL WORLD (judging by the fact that the UN building as seen in the film AND in Matrix 1) how are there agents? Heres a photos litterally 2 frames after each other.

good point...i'll have to go back and watch it...but i dont think its the real world...

yeah it is, cuz then it shows the kid gettin put into the orb thingy

here's how i know

Wow... if you're right on this then that deserves some serious thought. There is a lot that a minor scene like that would have to mean. I'm gonna take a look tonight... not that I don't trust you... but just to see it for myself.

hmmmmm

very interesting....

that could explain how the Sentinals can be controled by the agents

and how neo can use his powers

ok, i know its hard to c, but heres a composite proof. the building that is intact is the UN building b4 the sentinel looking thing blows it up. then, it is the picture of the building w/the kid in front of it. they line up perfectly, as well as the surrounding ruins. if u want the oringinals, i'll email em to you.

yup, it all works out in the end, except the all around story in "2nd Renasaince", for the machines decieve the humans by having that story the way it is. There was a B166ER and he went against his master, but they made it look as if the humans did everything, while it was actually both of the sides who did the same amount of damage. It said that the humans wouldnt accept what the machines wanted. It was actually they all faught and the machines had no choice but to create the matrix to give themselves energy. In 01, there is a sky and they can actually get there power from it.

just if u wanted to know, that machine is the machine that needs Neo's help

HAHAHA...MWAM, baby!!! Yeah!!

mwam?

"Matrix within a Matrix"...

B166ER explained (WOAH!!! Bigger.....I already knew that on a liscence plat or somehting, But Not with B-1-6-6-E-R) Click here. And what makes you think that there is a sky above 01? if there WAS a sky then they wouldn't need humans.

i didnt say that, but i talked to alias after, there is some crazy stuff we thought about from the animatrix. Specifically: The Second Rennaissance story comes from the ZION mainframe, so it IS a PROGRAM! also, the ideas presented in it are conflicting, like agents in the real world, even though we all KNOW that they are only in the "matrix" so now i believe that TSR was used by the machines to mislead humans, and that it is really a fictional account of the true history, that, or an explanation as to how the MWAM theory is justified: There was a matrix in which the machines also inserted themselves, then, the humans tried to dominate once again (meaning it happened twice) and the machines won AGAIN, and put the humans further into a conputer controlled environment. crazy huh?

good theory, real...

Well if you would look at the part where the Machine says the following:

"Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Give up your flesh and a new world awaits you."

Well, if you hadn't noticed, they look ALOT like Agents as well. Does not prove MWAM.

What if the database IS Zion Dun Dun Dun Dun DUUUUUUUUN!!!!

What does Jaws have to do with the Zion database, Sifer?

It was meant to be a more like a dramatic build up - f00k it

glad i did sumthin right

going back to wut sumone sed about there bein agents in the UN when sentinel man blew it up, it doesnt matter because of the kid in the scene after, so there is no reason to dispute that those could be agents, BUT! i jus thought of this...wut if the matrix UN leaders were used as the first agents? that could work, becuase they sed, "give up ur flesh and a new world awaits u" so basically "plug in n u get power" becuase they were the world leaders, so that could explain how the agents started. maybe smith was there, like, the leader for iraq or sumthin, ?? (would explain his indignance)

smith is saddam hussein...haha..."all your bombs are belong to us..."

lol thats rite!

I think that the end with the agents symbolizes a false reality, or the coming of the Matrix. That's why when the child realises they arn't his parents, he is shown to be connected to the Matrix in the red pod. It's more of a symbolic representation than an underlining meaning.

i dont think so nox, because its pretty explicit as to the order of events for my that kid. First he is playing in the snow, then he sees the agents, then he is put into the pod. OH! i have a new qestion though: How did the first humans get put into the MATRIX? They didnt have plugs to begin with obviously, so did the machines manually insert the hardware for humans? Didn't they realize how much pain the humans probably felt during this process? I wonder, becuase of the line from TSRII, "the machines felt great pity for the humans" or sumthin like that. So why would they put so many holes and so much metal inside the humans?

Yes, they did just plug them in, manually. And it hurt like theres no tomorrow.

OK I have Definitely got to watch that movie tonight.... I want to see what you guys are talking about (how did I not catch that the first time).

From what I got out of the second ressiance part 2 was that the machines found most of the humans alive, and put them to sleep, with some sort of anthesia and then plugged the holes into them. Then the scene with the big machine guy/thing talking to the 'agents', who appear to be in the real world, but I think it is all in the matrix, the machine guy is the architect, but when they discovered the anamoly and a way to control the anamoly, the used a program to make the architect, who's image shell in the matrix was machine like, look more human like... did that make any sense...? The architect is a program as well, but I think it is being run by an outside machine... such as the one in SRpII, its digital self looked like a machine, but once the machines discovered the anamoly, then figuring out a way to deal with it, the architect programed an image shell for itself... is that any better? lol, I'm trying to dispute the whole MWAM thing, I think it silly! Besides the wachowski bros said that the matrix was tinted green, and the real world was tinted blue in the 1st matrix, I didn't notice it in reloaded as much, i'm sure they did it, but I'm still having to wait on the freakin' DVD!!

no, they didn't put them to sleep, they created protein virus' that wreak havoc on our "weak protein bodies"...then, some of them, im not sure if they were leftovers or ppl that weren't killed, were put into the machines, physically plugged in for the first time. and if i remember correctly (i have to get the DVD...) they shifted the colors, so that, at some points, it was tinted green in the real, and blue in the matrix...

ok, well, i get the whole tinting thing, but wut if the inner matrix is green the outer matrix is blue, and hey, wut if the REAL WORLD is RED?? goin off the color wheel here...

the real world should HAVE no color, it should be natural, so if it were red, it would be another programmed reality...

'the sky is blue'

so wut if the sky is blue, that doesnt make a difference because the real world doesnt have a sky to look at. Mx 1 had a blue sky in the matrix not a green one. and the logical explanation for the blue tint of the "real world" is that the clouds make EVERYTHING kinda blue-grey, so it doesnt mean anything. dam wish i had copy of reloaded at school w/me so i could grab a screenshot or sumthin, cuz that temple place was very blue. i do agree w/the green, specifically the freeway chase.

hey burly> that guy with the 'help' sign is me...

indeed it is

yeah, just because the info came from the ZION MAINFRAME, doesnt mean that ZION itslef is a program or machine, it just has a mainframe with info in it...thats it

Zion has no record of the event, becuase no one has proved it ever happened, plain and simple. Who says the machines aren't lying about the 6 time thing....who says that IF zion is a machine, then why WOULD they put that info in there.


-doh forgot page 2....my bad guys

Just forget about MWAM please that does'nt need to be proven false, because in Revolutions it does'nt seem that if the Real World is another Matrix it would really affect the story because we all know there would be no way to get out of the Real World if it was a matrix.

sure there would be, it just means they havent figured it out.
out of the prison cell just to realize that the barb wire is still at the top of the fence and ur naked. sacrifice everything trust no one, not even ur own mind that ur free. besides, this was about the animatrix, not the tint of the worlds lol.

I know but I just get so mad when someone brings up MWAM. Oh yeah about thost agents and that kid in the snow, don't know maybe it was just actual machines with human skin on. Also notice that the agent looking guys are human in the UN building. When the ambassador machine says his little line he self destructs, why would he destroy a machine, and why would machines like that be in the UN building? I believe that the machines just used the skin of the UN people to cover other machines and use them as COPS of somesort. The kid when he walks up to his house, I never really considered his "parents" shape changing to mean that his parents were transformed into agents, I always just thought that as he got closer the shape of his "parents" became apparent they were actually agents waiting for him. Did this even occur to you all? Maybe the machines like agents killed his parents and were waiting at his house so they could just nab him? It is a contreversal (SP?) subject though, I guess it all depends on how one intermprets that scene.

but when you look at the "parents" from behind, they are male and female, not two males...

Yeah that is true but did you ever think about the point of view that is moving onto the "parents" that is was what the kid was seeing? Maybe the kid half expected his parents to be there so that is what he thought he saw, also ever think of a house plant being behind that "female"agent? Lol, who knows, who really cares anyways. You all won't have to ponder long, less than a month to go.

everything else is shown from a seemingly unbiased view, why would the view of the parent be that of a biased view suddenly?

? What? That made no sense Jedi.

i just meant that we are seeing everything else from a view that is unhuman, thus, why would what the little kid thinks he sees be introduced for one instance, and then go back to the unhuman view? it is illogical.

Don't forget Jedi the Zion mainframe is a simulation.

im not forgetting that, but what does that have to do with whether or not the history records are showing agents in the seeming real world?

Im not saying that it refers to that, maybe it refers to how the kid saw his "parents" in the doorway, maybe the kid represents humanity, not knowing what would the machines do to them next, first the revolution, then the virus, and finally the matrix.

i dont think it is symbolic, if thats what you're saying...

me neither thanx for backing me up jedi.

Well then what do you think it is then?

to what are you refering?

The scene with the child and the agents.

i think it is a clever way for the Wbros to show that the "real world" is another programmed reality, just like the matrix...I have already iterated my reasons, but i will do so again, if need be...

No please no more MWAM. lol

you asked, you shoulda known better than to ask one of the biggest proponents of MWAM what he thought...lol

Did'nt know I beg for your forgivness! Sorry but I don't believe in MWAM I do believe in a good cheesecake though. ^_^

MMMMmmm...cheesecake...wait, is it cherry? If not, then i dont like it...haha

It is cherry so we can agree on something Jedi ^_^

YEA!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/Jumpy.gif

Wow that was rally scarey Jedi! I think the real plot behind the Matrix is that if you don't get cheesecake or cookies (in honor of Smiddy) don't feel bad because some virus multiplying dude is taking them all from everyone. That would be pretty funny if at the end of Revolutions it was a computer game being played by machines but I am on crack so.

i actually thought of something like that, that it is all a simulation created by humans to better understand themselves...I dont believe it, but its a good thought

wow, this is fun, i didnt think it was gonna take off like that, i just wanted ppl to listen to my ideas (pplz where i live dont care about that, they just like Hollister and abercrombie) DIE STUPID TRENDS!

well, i never noticed it but wow, i always thought that it was the matrix, but this is wierd, the best sci-fi movies ever have reason for being the best

yeah, me either, real, they "prosecute" me, then go off and get drunk or high or...whatever else they do in college here...i dont care, i choose my computer anyday...well, except over a girlfriend...

good fur u, cept high school sux so i dont get to do that, but there will be a time when dreams will come true...

i thought that i might formally adress this topic with one last post.
MWAM was presented to me through this forum... i took it, molded it, and found a reasonably good explanation (i had pictures too!)
after seeing revolutions tho, i realize that there is no real point to MWAM, simply because it wasnt explored in revs...
the only thing that i can possibly relate in revs to mwam is that at the end, they carted NEO off to be put into his real body, and that he is the only human walking around in the REAL real world.
anyway, its 2:00 AM, im tired, and merry christmas y'all.

Thats a pretty interesting theory about what they did with Neo.

ur quick, did u read the beginning stuff?

I just read the rest of the thread, i probly should of done that first.

Anyway i kind of agree for the most part, i'd have to watch Animatrix again though.

Nice theories either way.
Good work, keep it up.

It wasn't the real world! That's what the kid thought!....u have to realize that's why the kid is plugged in after! It was the Matrix.

omg Oo. that kid was in the matrix, you can see that the scene changes form the blasted landscape to the urban setting. whne he sees the agents maybe he awakens, maybe he was one fo the first to realsie it Oo....maybe,..... and also i dont think that robot destroyed the city.(they jsut wrote themselves into the bill of rights why would they) i think it was a human bomb . a last ditch effort agianst the robot armies. like a kamikaze attack

I think that was the first matrix(version one), where the machines gave it the appearance of the perfect utopian society. If I remember correctly, the Architect mentioned that they went into the history of humankind for the second version of the matrix. If the machines were capturing people in the real world and inserting them into the matrix, it would make sense if they made the landscape familiar and the year the same(therefore the UN building is destroyed and the percieved age/time frame would be that of the real world).

The Architect says that humans rejected the first matrix, right? Well, that's what I think this is showing. The kid is frolicking in the matrix, then as he runs toward his parents, he sees the governing programs (represented by the Agents) and screams at the realization of his artificial imprisonment.

Just my thoughts.

dont take that scene literally its just a way of showing that man is now enslaved.

exactly. in fact, i'm pretty sure we came to this conclusion a few months ago...