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This movie alone gets my head rolling. Now comes the importance of Persephone. I have no doubt that she is the mother of the matrix. The intuitive program(the mother) was supposed to give choices and these choices werent actual choices because one of the choices would be something u would never choose. You would think it was the oracle, but Persephone was not ackowledged at all and she also gave examples of the choices: "If I dont deliver you to the keymaker, she can kill me. All I want is a kiss." Theres one. "U can either run to resteraunt and tell my husband what i hav done or u can just stand there and die." Isnt this a little to obvious?

i dont think she is the mother, but rather the snobby daughter, that only wants whats best for her, not anyone else...

hmm, sux for the mother

you kiddin? The mother must be quite the looker, definately not the offspring of Archie and the Oracle

Archy said: "if I am the Father, then she (the oracle, as Neo said) is the mother.

yes, NEO said it, not the Archie, plus, Archie acted as if the Oracle is not a program of the caliber necessary to be the momma, so i dont think its her

Persphone is the "mother"..........

she is an intuitive (intuition) program.........she new what the Merovingian was doing with the blonde......she even knew where he was, in the ladies restroom.

The Merovingian is one of the oldest programs from one of the earliest versions of the Matrix...........stands to reason that Persephone is aswell since they are married. Also, the Merovingian goes on and on about how there is no real choice,it's an illusion.......all there is is causality. The mother of the Matrix gave the architect the idea to give the "illusion of choice"...............

Not only that........when Neo suggests that it is the oracle, the Architect says "puh-leeze"..........doesn't sound like a confirmation to me.

Why would we think the Oracle is an intuitive program anyway? Because she knows what is going on with everybody? She already explained in Reloaded and ETM that she knows the path from beginning to end......what's after that, she doesn't know. She isn't using intuition at all.........she is simply stating the knowledge she was programmed with (the knowledge of the path).

Do you know what the word intuitive means - FFS people read the ****in dictionary.com Of course she knew where he was, he just sent her the friggin cake to make her horny. Persephone can see the code as well.

Can Persephone see what Neo is gonna do in the future - can she ****.

Again I will say, read the ****in dictionary.com - hint hint.

And the Archie doesn't say Puh-lease, he says "Please". A real word.

And she fits a motherly figure - ALOT

but, but, but...the Archie denied it, she doesn't seem to be anything more than she appears, i dont think it is the Oracle. I dont think it is Persephone. I think we have yet to meet her, or we DONT meet her... It seems too EASY for the Oracle to be the mother, even though the Archie says PLEASE...

He DID NOT deny anything. It wasn't a denial OR acceptance. The Wachowski's chose that one-liner to **** EVERYONE's line of thinking up, I guarantee.

He never said: "Don't be silly" or "Of course not" or "Indeed" or anything similar. He said:

"Please FULL STOP."

the FULL STOP is silent, i take it

Which makes ME think OF COURSE NOT...

Take a look at what the word PLEASE means in the dictionary.com. Actually, I will tell you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=please

Read.

Thought I would add it for those too lazy to go and visit the link:

v.tr.
1. To give enjoyment, pleasure, or satisfaction to; make glad or contented.
2. To be the will or desire of: May it please the court to admit this firearm as evidence.

v. intr.
1. To give satisfaction or pleasure; be agreeable: waiters who try hard to please.
2. To have the will or desire; wish: Do as you please. Sit down, if you please.

adv.
1. If it is your desire or pleasure; if you please. Used in polite requests: Please stand back. Pay attention, please.
2. Yes. Used in polite affirmative replies to offers: May I help you? Please.

I know what 'PLease' means, however, when someone says 'please' in an incredulous fashion, are you to take them as saying "of course i would like some"?! That doesnt make any sense in normal speech, and makes no sense in Archie speech

i think.......

persephone sucks

no, the woman in white sucks...

Well what you just said does NOT make sense Jedi. EVERY single word the Architect says during his speech is precise according to the English Dictionary. So if he say's please, he means please.

but you can say a word with different inflections, different intonations and mean TOTALLY different things...

I will say again:

During his speech he used every word precisely according to the English Dictionary. This is taking into all variations on word meanings. Yes, I have sat through his whole conversation going through Dictionary.com. If it meant something different in another situation it would be listed in the dictionary. If it isn't then it is not official and just slang - therefore the Architect would NOT use it for those means.

I understand that, Sifer, however, he also shows signs of human emotion, thus, when i hear inflection, i take it as meaning more than meets the ear

He does indeed show small signs of emotion and is probably the reason his face lights up when he mentions 'love'.

But as I say, every single word he used is very exacting and precise according to the dictionary. So it should be assumed that it is the same for the 1 word which seems 'off' in a sense. It just would not make any sense for the Wachowski's to do something like that, it isn't their style.

but showing human emotion, human style, can he not have ONE instance of being taken aback, and then recovering? Even though he IS the architect, is it not possible that Neo saying that set him off guard for a sec?

**P*E*R*S*E*P*H*O*N*E**I*S**A**B*O*O*T*!*!*!*!**

A lot of people has entertained the idea that she is the mother. We all suggest it. But Jedi dead set against it, so manyof the people follow him. I know her role is inportant. She is the woman in the read dress.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/schmoll.gif howk!!!

I hope people dont follow what i say just because i say it, because that is just sad...and im very often wrong...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/rip1.gif

Tshirt - Indeed, I believe I posted the exact meaning of intuitive from Dictionary.com not too long ago in a thread not that far away.

HAHA...Korri, dont feel sick...

low quality audio

http://www.mybr.cc/Audio.wma

http://www.mybr.cc/Audio.zip

will take down 5pm central time

I'm not certain it's persephone.............but I am certain it's not the Oracle.......I guess I'm going to have to agree with Jedi on this.

"The Oracle fits the description of intuitive, psychic program to the letter.
She predicts the future"

That's crap, did you watch the movies? She predicts nothing. She simply states the knowledge she has.........she KNOWS the path of the one, and the path of the one is determined by the many......so she knows what they are doing too. She tells us flat out she doesn't predict anything........she already knows it.

Sifer......you're a jackass. I posted "puh-leeze" like that to get across the point of the Architect's condesending tone while saying it. He doesn't just give a polite little "please"...........stop being a *****, you knew exactly the point I was making.

I can't wait untill Revolutions comes out for the simple fact that every single one of these posts will still be on the first page and we will all know the outcome of Revolutions. At that point Sifer, who posts as if he KNOWS what is going to happen and how the story will flow and all else must be wrong, will either have to stick around and be laughed at for being wrong on many occasions.....or he can leave to avoid the humility.

Most of us post our opinions and thoughts........we don't belittle everybody else as if what we are saying is correct and everyone else is wrong. Sifer feels the need to post his opinion as if it is proven fact and everybody else is completely wrong. Boy it will be fun in here a month from now.

We know that it's not the movie that is different, but it is us.

we all right, we all have seen the movie. we have read the scipts. Hell, some of us wrote the script. I just directed the movie. I let others take credit for it.


IT'S ONLY A MOVIE PEOPLE. ANOTHER DVD IN OUR COLLECTION

Evil: You're the one called Egotistical God - so stfu.

Or what the Merovingian says:

The Fortune Teller

Now what does a fortune teller do? Oh, thats right, tells the future. Also, I point to evidence and back up the claim. YOU are the one who came on here saying this:

"Persphone is the "mother".........."

And that was BEFORE I replied with anything. Who is the jackass now?

Nah I think he meant it in a condescending manner Sifer. Also, what's really really sad is that the word, "Puh-leeze" and others like that are going to be put in the Oxford English Dictionary due to how language is changing apparently.

I stated my belief that Perseophone is the intuitive program the architect spoke of........then backed it up with the reasons I believe this.


I never once said I what I thought was 100% accurate..........I didn't say everybody else was wrong who doesn't think what I think. All I've said is that I think it's Persephone and even if it's not, I don't believe it is the oracle.

i cant help it

Evil> Nice attitude. You don't agree with someone so you get bent out of shape and tell people their opinions are crap? But, you don't belittle everybody? Do you read what you post?

Does the Oracle predict or know? Aren't they one in the same? If you do not know whether you will turn left or right. But the Oracle knows/thinks you will go left. You then go left, did she know or predict it? Is there any difference?




Are you going to jump up and down and point out where you think he was wrong? Will you do the same with your own theories that turn out incorrect?

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

here it tis, Korri

"Evil> Nice attitude. You don't agree with someone so you get bent out of shape and tell people their opinions are crap? But, you don't belittle everybody? Do you read what you post?

Does the Oracle predict or know? Aren't they one in the same? If you do not know whether you will turn left or right. But the Oracle knows/thinks you will go left. You then go left, did she know or predict it? Is there any difference"

I never said his opinion was crap.........I said what he was posting was crap. He was posting thet the oracle makes predictions, which is indeed crap. A prediction is a guess.....an educated guess but a guess none the less. I can predict an earthquake, doesn't mean it's going to happen. I can predict anything I want, doesn't mean it's going to happen. The Oracle has never once made a prediction. She simply states what is. She knows the path of the one. All she does is recycle information. That is not a prediction. If I KNOW how much money is in your wallet, it's not a prediction if I say "you have $48 in your wallet"...it is merely stating fact. If I don't know how much money you have, then it would be a prediction. Jesus.......I swear some of you must be 15 years old....some of you seem to have trouble not only understanding certain things from the movie, but understand posts on here aswell.

He originally said: "The Oracle fits the description of intuitive, psychic program to the letter. She predicts the future"

That was his OPINION. It might be right, it might be wrong, but it is his opinion.
To which you replied:
That's crap, did you watch the movies?

You said his opinion is crap. It is clear as day.

Onto issue #2.

You claim that a "prediction is a guess.....an educated guess but a guess none the less."

I agree.

You go on to state, The Oracle has never once made a prediction. She simply states what is. She knows the path of the one."

The last part is your opinion, it may be right, it may not. After watching the movies, I don't see conclusive proof that the Oracle "KNOWS" the future. Rather, she is making a guess - probably educated from her experiences with past "Ones" and versions of the Matrix. Because Neo is different that the other "Ones" and the participants are different from those of prior Matrixes, she does not know, with 100% certainty, who will do what or what will happen. She predicted Morpheus would find the "One." Past versions of the Matrix may have had a person/inhabitant similar to Morpheus, but it was not this Morpheus. Therefore it is only a "guess" that Morpheus would find Neo/The One. Same with her prediction for Trinity (That she would fall in love with the One) In fact, we are led to believe that previous "Ones" did not have a love interest as they choose to save the Matrix. Thus, predicting that Trinity and Neo would fall in love is another "guess" and not something that she knows with absolute certainty. I could go on, but I think those are enough examples.

atleast someone agrees with me as i look back at the replies (thanx evil dead:up

Oracle = Oracle Database which is uses Server Query Language to communicate with the 'source' . There are also the other pretty obvious meanings for the word Oracle.

Persephone, well it is an actual name of a famous 'daughter' in Greek Mythology. I don't recall her ever being a mother (not that proves anything, but we all know what the Wachowski's are like for names and their multiple meanings).

persephone is going to play a vital role in REVOLUTIONS
the photos r telling something on the official site of the matrix

Alias Neo15> ill see wot i can do

its not great

"You go on to state, The Oracle has never once made a prediction. She simply states what is. She knows the path of the one."

The last part is your opinion, it may be right, it may not. After watching the movies, I don't see conclusive proof that the Oracle "KNOWS" the future."

Watch Reloaded again.......and play ETM again. The Oracle states (I'm paraphrasing here because I can't recall the exact lines) to Niobe........I know everything of the path from beginning to end, but what's beyond that not even I know. Then Niobe asks if it's the end of the world and the Oracle replies with yes and maybe both. Niobe says something else to which the Oracle replies, "the path of the one is made by the paths of the many".........

The Oracle does indeed state plainly that she knows the entire path of the one from beginning to end.......and that the path of the one is made by the many. That was not opinion........it was plainly stated by The Oracle to Niobe. If you can't pop in your ETM game to see the conclusive proof then don't believe me. Just ask the one of the other millions of people who have played the game. Now......if since she already knows what happens on the path......how can she be an intuitive program? She has no intuition as she already knows everything that is going to happen (up untill Neo meets the architect and the path ends that is).............beyond that she doesn't know because Neo didn't enter the source like he was supposed to. She only knows up untill that point because that is where the program is supposed to end and Reload from the beginning. Intuition has nothing to do with her character. She suspects nothing, she already knows.

now..........back to the subject, enough with this petty bickering.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/sakarit/kerro-lisaa/OhtheDrama.jpgok ok ....you guys BOTH have valid arguments..NONE..of which we can prove...so you're even. I think the problem lied between the tone you used to asnwer eachother....so we can all be nice now and move on.

I am not sure which to believe, because there is no 100% proof either way, no matter how many quotes anyone throws up. we'll just wait and see.

PEACE LOVE!!! Who wants to perform oral on me??

um, no thanx but thanx for askin. u need to know these things

Bahaha

nice

- saves pic -

ok is this better?