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Ok people are speculating that Seraph will die, and possibly the oracle, if not taken over by smith. How can a program die?? I guesse they are in human form and if there human shell dies the program is deleted? This happens to the keymaker. his physical being in the matrix dies, yet he is just code right? whats to say he cant move into another host body and write his code over theres like smith does. Seraph and the oracle should have this power to.Right?

nope, only agents that are part of the system can. For example, smith cant once he has been 'deleted'

and i thought programs returned to the source, once they faced deletion?

Yes......programs die because they are based on the design of humans....so what kills a human kills them.

Once they are killed their code is supposed to return to the source for deletion.........ofcourse the Keymaker was already a rogue program so he would most likely go ahead and do what you said, stay in the Matrix instead of returning for deletion (he has already done this once when faced with deletion).

The kicker is.........it's all pretty much a lie. In Reloaded the Keymaker states, "I'm only doing what I was meant to do".....everything is pre-ordained (fate)............so the keymaker was meant to become a rogue program instead of being deleted so he could serve his purpose (lead Neo to the source)........it was also meant for him to die. He really has no choice in the matter. If it was his design to be deleted, he will be......if it wasn't, he won't. Same applies to the Oracle and Seraph. The oracle has already served her purpose (guiding Neo on his path ensuring he reaches the source).....if that is all she was meant to do, she will be deleted. If she was meant to do more she will come back as a Rogue program.

That's the big contradiction in Reloaded. The Oracle tells Neo (and us) that rogue programs CHOSE not to be deleted so they went and hid in the Matrix.......the Twins, the Merovingian, Cain/Able, etc.............but we later find out that those programs are all doing what they were meant to do so choice has nothing to do with it. It was their original design to be rogue programs so they could interact with Neo along his path........doesn't make them "rogue" programs is they are doing exactly what they were meant to do now does it.

thank you evildead, nobody else seems to have grasped that...thank you

I get what your saying, and it makes complete since. However put that into the grand scheme of things..........The Machines really control everything then, right? They control what the Oracle says to neo, they control the twins and Mero, the machines are really just moving the humans like chess peices then right? for what purpose, to learn to love? to learn emotion? I get what you said Evil Dead and totally believe that to be true now. however It got me thinking about the latter questions.

i dont know the reason, and im not exactly sure the machines aren't also being controlled, but yes, "everything happens as it should and for a reason"

"what happened happened, and could not have happened any other way"

"how do you know?"

sounds good, but it better not happen!!!!!

well you can also think of it this way.

Each program does what it is intended, and has for the most part. But remember that everything went to plan UNTIL neo went through the other door.

Perhaps the programs are programmed with what they will do, but not how to get to that point. And some algorithm makes it so that the keymaker will eventually die once he has done what he should....but who's to say HOW he gets to that point, and maybe that part isnt programmed?

So in a sense, they ARE doing what they intended, but there are SOME choices along the way to alter the outcome. and since we know NEO has already changed his path from whats happened in the past...isnt it possible for others to do the same, yet with the same outcome?


like if I said when I get older I will buy car..and I have been progmrammed to recieve one....who's to say WHEN I get the car, HOW I got it, and WHAT kind of car is it? see what I mean?

So it is possible these programs CHOSE to become rogue, but cannot escape fate of being deleted once their purpose has been fulfilled...kind of like a death switch within their programming.

something else that didnt go to plan was smith

"that went as ?expected?"
"well, not exactly..."

Does that mean Neo made a choice?
And that he strayed from his predetermined destiny?

Look, if there weren't these Smiths the keymaker wouldn't have died but then we are putting in chaos theory and this goes way too far. I think Dryden already expressed my thoughts. It is not the way, it is the purpose! Maybe the Oracle has seen too many matrix versions that got tired and decided to help the one end the matrix But I am almost sure that the candy that the oracle gave to Neo was a program to make him choose the door on his left.

he didnt eat the candy

and he didnt have a drink at Le Vrai. who has time?..

he dont eat or drink....

NEO'S A MACHINE (dun dun dun.....)

he bit the oracles cookie.........

that was b4 he was the one, though (or at least b4 he died)

indeed

Neo chose the door back to the Matrix...........the Architect had already predicted he would do so. This leads me to believe that going back to the Matrix is indeed part of his path. It is what he was supposed to do. What is meant to happen will happen. Choice is an illusion. We were lied to in the first movie about the prophecy.........who's to say we weren't tricked into believing that Neo's path was really to end at the source?.....furthermore, who's to say that is still won't? Neo may still indeed end his journey in the source and the war will be over when he does so. I believe the prophecy is indeed true. Neo will bring an end to the war and his path will end at the source...........he just has more to do yet (Smith).

maybe he wasnt hungry