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ya ive thut of this b 4 it drives me crazy to think of it. but i hear wut ur sayin. also in t3 arnie is sent back from the same timeline as he was in t2 and t1. so were the hell did the rsistance find out that judgement day wud b on july 24th 2004. it is confusin

i was just bout 2 say. the judgment day in t3 is july 25,04 coz of the cyberdyne blowup. no date in t1, aug29,97 in t2

There are 3 timelines in the 3 movies (plus the original one). So it must also be 3 Judgement days. Infact there must be 4 but the events from T3 have not modified the Judgement day because "there is insuficient time" as the Terminator told to John. If there is no Judgement day in T1 then where did the Terminator come from? If he came from the future where there is a war between humans and machines it must be a Judgment day also in T1.

good questions wish we had sum answers

Assume that August 29, 1997 was the date of Judgement Day in the Original Time-Line... Reese was born when, 2008 or 2009? so learned the past history, and dates and all growing up fighting to survive for 20 years until 2029, got sent back from 2029 to 1984, and shared the history of things to come with Sarah, and saved her from the Terminator... the future was changed, but Sarah was stuck in the new timeline, with the old data, and date in her head, so she always ranted about Judgement day August 29, 1997, including to Silberman on the taped interview at Pescadero in T2...

Now, since we know Sarah was impregnated by Reese in 1984, and somewhere it was listed that John Connor's b-day is February 1985, plus other facts mentioned in the movies which make it appear as though T2 took place in or around 1997 (John was about 12 ( or 13, according to T3) the T-850 was sent back 35 years from 2032 (again 1997, because if he was sent back 35 years from 2029, as some think, then John would only have been 9 or 10 in T2, and he just wasn't that young!!) so T2 takes place in 1997, which is why Sarah is freaking out, because either the date is drawing near, or because August 29, 1997 already passed, and what she was told was inaccurate, so maybe she thinks the future was changed, but she's not sure by how much or what... any way, the taped interview was obviously made BEFORE August 29, 1997, because Sarah talks about the date as though it hasn't happened yet... but, when we see that tape being viewed, some time has passed, Sarah is calmer while still trying to get out of maximum security to get to John, but we don't know the exact date we're at, or what the new date for Judgement Day is... whatever the new date would have been becomes irrelevant by the end of T2, when Dyson and Cyberdine are destroyed, setting back SkyNet's completion, activation, and postponing Judgement Day until T3.

Again, no 'clear' date is listed or mentioned, that I know of, in T3, though there are some references hinting at a possible date, it's never actually stated as 'fact' that it is X,XX, 200X... we can assume it's 2007, because of all the references back to T2 being 10 years ago, or a decade ago etc etc, and if we agree that T2 should be set in 1997, then T3 occurs in 2007.. but no clearer date is set, that I can see... T1 spans 4 nights and 3 days, T2 also spans 3 nights and 2 days, while T3 starts one night and ends before nightfall the very next day, so no real time passes in any of the films enough to justify too wide a variance from these dates, I think... and, at the end of the day depicted in T3, whatever the date may be, it becomes Judgement Day, so we will know for sure what date Judgement Day falls on if T4 ever kits the big screen...

T2 is not happening in 1997 because when T-1000 looks in the computer we clearly see that John Connor is 10 years old. I don't know why he is 13 in T3. T2 is probably happening in the early 1995.

i like to think of it as cameron screwed up the timeline so dont try to figure it out

That's right... if the easiest way to get around the whole screw-up is to consider that police car computer screen in T2 to be the error, then so be it... John was concieved in mid 84, born in early 85, grew up to 12-13 so it was 97ish in T2... 10 years later, T3... 2007...

Kyle was in the 132nd under Perry from 2021-27, and under John Connor from 27-29, when he left the timeline to go save Sarah...

T-800 from T2 was sent back 35 years, so sent back from 2032...

still all makes sense

ya thats probly one of the most resonable explenations

I know... I am a genius!

I would assume that the events in all three films took place in and around or close to the month of August just they did in T2. If you notice in T1 and T3 there is never any snow indicating it is Winter and there is also never any leaves on the ground or something similar indicating it is Fall. One would naturally assume that all three films too place sometime in the Summer, which month? I guess we will never know.

I'm surprised a lot of thought went into this.

Its always the case with the Terminator films.

Thats true.

When Reese is being chased by the cops the police radio says 'In search of a white male, 6 feet, 25 years'. He was born in 2004.

It varies - the most credible explanation gives seven different timelines and the first two may not even have had a Judgement Day.

Seven !

Its pretty confusing at times.

Indeed !

Terminator takes place in 1984.

Terminator 2 takes place in 1994. (35 years in the past from 2029).

Terminator 3 takes place in 2004. (10 years after T2).

Here's what I think happens:

The original Judgement Day date was July 29th, 2004. However, when Cyberdyne gained the CPU from the Terminator's head, it pushed Judgement Day closer, due to the future technology.

Judgement Day then became August 29th, 1997.

But when the CPU was destroyed, along with Cyberdyne, it returned everything to normal. Judgement Day then was returned to July 29th, 2004.

That's a pretty good way of seeing that. Well done!

How comes I never thought of that?

Anyone else agree with Doctor Lector? lol

Cameron did screw up the timeline(s) so it is not gana make perfect sense. Here is the thing: Before we try to make sense of a movie or series of movies involving time travel we need to figure out what theory of time travel they are going by. In T1 they (presumably) went by the theory that the future is set. Otherwise where did John Connor come from? They also cut out 2 scenes in T1 that explained that cyberdyne developed skynet, and a later scene that showed that the building where the T-800 was killed in was Cyberdyne, and that Cyberdyne Mgmt hid everything so they could study it. Thus explaining how skynet was created in the first place.

In T2 they went with the theory that the future is not set when they blew up Cyberdyne and killed Miles Dyson. From this point on there is really no point in trying to make sense of it because it wont work. The future is either set or it isn't, it cant be both. But if you want to get really crazy with it here is a thought: what if the John Connor who sent Kyle Reese back was really not Kyles son? That was a different John Connor. Once Reese went back he changed the future erasing that John from existance and (luckily) created a new one. Thanks to his mothers experiance she prepared him from birth so it is no coincidence that he would go on to lead the resistance just as the original John did. Crazy, and obviously not intended, but the only way to put it together.

But if you want to get really crazy with it here is a thought: what if the John Connor who sent Kyle Reese back was really not Kyles son? That was a different John Connor. Once Reese went back he changed the future erasing that John from existance and (luckily) created a new one. Thanks to his mothers experiance she prepared him from birth so it is no coincidence that he would go on to lead the resistance just as the original John did. Crazy, and obviously not intended, but the only way to put it together.

I've always thought about that. If you're not going by the time-travel loop theory, then Sarah's assuming her son with Reese is going to be the same John Connor she would have had all along. But it seems the original John had a different father. Pretty risky bet there if you asked me.

Ya good thinking, Kyle. Endanger the existence of John by sleeping with his mother.

Originally posted by SpyCspider
Ya good thinking, Kyle. Endanger the existence of John by sleeping with his mother.

Leave the guy alone...Reese only wanted to lose his virginity. Can't blame the guy for getting "his", LOL.

Originally posted by SlickRick69
That's right... if the easiest way to get around the whole screw-up is to consider that police car computer screen in T2 to be the error, then so be it... John was concieved in mid 84, born in early 85, grew up to 12-13 so it was 97ish in T2... 10 years later, T3... 2007...

Kyle was in the 132nd under Perry from 2021-27, and under John Connor from 27-29, when he left the timeline to go save Sarah...

T-800 from T2 was sent back 35 years, so sent back from 2032...

still all makes sense Nah, that's just messed up and wrong.

In T3 Kate said to John they were in Eighth grade. That's 1998/9 for John.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Nah, that's just messed up and wrong.

In T3 Kate said to John they were in Eighth grade. That's 1998/9 for John.

Don't remember that?
but That just makes it more messed up....... according to the computer in T2 john is 10 so it makes it 1995.
so T3 and the SCC messed it up royally cause in SCC sarah is alive in 1999 when she died in 1997 according to T3
unless if they go back in time to 1997 where she dies?
as for the trees and snow they are in LA i don't think the trees change or there is snow unless it's in the mountains but T1 was in may and john born in feb
t2 summer some time

I thought TSCC didn't take T3 into account?

Originally posted by U Neek
I thought TSCC didn't take T3 into account?

Affirmative.

Then again T3 does say T2 happened 2 years before old Judegement Day (97), so that means they think T1 took place in 81 or 80. Which brings up a point. Is there any reference at all that says T1 took place in 1981 in T1 or T2?

Originally posted by Doctor Lecter
Terminator takes place in 1984.

Terminator 2 takes place in 1994. (35 years in the past from 2029).

Terminator 3 takes place in 2004. (10 years after T2).

Here's what I think happens:

The original Judgement Day date was July 29th, 2004. However, when Cyberdyne gained the CPU from the Terminator's head, it pushed Judgement Day closer, due to the future technology.

Judgement Day then became August 29th, 1997.

But when the CPU was destroyed, along with Cyberdyne, it returned everything to normal. Judgement Day then was returned to July 29th, 2004. That's a good theory, but that means the John who sent Kyle back is most likely not his son, and it destroys the loop theory.

I'm happy to admit the creators ****ed up, and it can't be solved. Doesn't exactly mean the films are bad, just T2 and T3 are flawed.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Then again T3 does say T2 happened 2 years before old Judegement Day (97), so that means they think T1 took place in 81 or 80. Which brings up a point. Is there any reference at all that says T1 took place in 1981 in T1 or T2?

I'm pretty sure that at the beginning of T1, just before Arnie appears in the "present" day, there is some writing on screen saying "LOS ANGELES, 1984 1:52AM"...

-U

Originally posted by U Neek
I'm pretty sure that at the beginning of T1, just before Arnie appears in the "present" day, there is some writing on screen saying "LOS ANGELES, 1984 1:52AM"...

-U

I think so too, but in any case the police computer says John was born in Feb 1985 so T1 happens in 1984.
The whole franchise is a grandfather paradox.
If John sent a woman warrior or even a terminator back in time to 1984 would he disappear in 2029?
How could skynet exist in 2029 if they didn't send a terminator back to 1984 for cyberdine to get the cpu and arm?
and i've gone crosseyed confused

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

"... God, a person could go crazy thinking about this."

Originally posted by barand1
"... God, a person could go crazy thinking about this."

Good one.

Maybe it's like Bill & Ted, where they just think that they will use the time machine later and go back in time and put the keys by a tree so they will have them when they need them in the future, but they have to remember to do it later otherwise it won't happen.... but it did happen, so it doesn't matter anymore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

Something that nobody in this thread seems to have considered, which surprises me based on the complexity of some theories proposed, is that Judgement Day is August 29, 1997, period.

Look at it this way:

Judgement day was 8.29.97, Reese told this to Sarah so she quoted it as the day in T2. This is all the pertinent information.

Ignore the third movie, stop bashing Cameron for messing things up, and look at some facts. James Cameron made TWO movies around the Terminator movie. He did NOT write the third movie, he is only in the credits as a writer due to the inclusion of characters he created. The ONLY Canon is found in Terminator and Terminator 2.

Final answer in the true canon of the series is this:

Terminator sent back to destroy Sarah and is destroyed.

Terminator sent back to kill John and the company designing Skynet is destroyed.

Judgement day is averted, the war never happens in the T2 timeline.

It's a multiple timeline theory and it works. It just seems pointless to take what is essentially high budget fan fiction and try and mash it into a series that is already complete.

Originally posted by bugger
Something that nobody in this thread seems to have considered, which surprises me based on the complexity of some theories proposed, is that Judgement Day is August 29, 1997, period.

Look at it this way:

Judgement day was 8.29.97, Reese told this to Sarah so she quoted it as the day in T2. This is all the pertinent information.

Ignore the third movie, stop bashing Cameron for messing things up, and look at some facts. James Cameron made TWO movies around the Terminator movie. He did NOT write the third movie, he is only in the credits as a writer due to the inclusion of characters he created. The ONLY Canon is found in Terminator and Terminator 2.

Final answer in the true canon of the series is this:

Terminator sent back to destroy Sarah and is destroyed.

Terminator sent back to kill John and the company designing Skynet is destroyed.

Judgement day is averted, the war never happens in the T2 timeline.

It's a multiple timeline theory and it works. It just seems pointless to take what is essentially high budget fan fiction and try and mash it into a series that is already complete. Then who is John's original father?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Then who is John's original father?
Ok, there you can blame Cameron.

But to try and give an explatnation, I see it like this:

John Conner's father is Kyle Reese.

The Terminator and Kyle are sent back in one timeline, this happens irregardless.

When the terminator is destroyed, nothing significant has changed because this event always happened.

It isn't until the destruction of Skynet that the future was changed to remove Judgement Day.

Of course, while that could explain the parentage, it doesn't explain why the war happened in the first place. Maybe the first time around Kyle destroyed the Terminator completely and Sarah didn't have the final confrontation with the endoskeleton that caused her to realize she was a part of this fight so she didn't go trying to warn people and accepted that Judgement Day would happen regardless of her actions.

That would mean she didn't blow up the research and Judgement Day actually occured.

So yeah, there is a possibility that in a slight alteration of the timeline Skynet went online and that in the second timeline the alteration didn't occur and Sarah stopped Skynet.

It is still possible to assume that Kyle was always John's father as long as he always goes back.

Originally posted by bugger
Ok, there you can blame Cameron.

But to try and give an explatnation, I see it like this:

John Conner's father is Kyle Reese.

The Terminator and Kyle are sent back in one timeline, this happens irregardless.

When the terminator is destroyed, nothing significant has changed because this event always happened.

It isn't until the destruction of Skynet that the future was changed to remove Judgement Day.

Of course, while that could explain the parentage, it doesn't explain why the war happened in the first place. Maybe the first time around Kyle destroyed the Terminator completely and Sarah didn't have the final confrontation with the endoskeleton that caused her to realize she was a part of this fight so she didn't go trying to warn people and accepted that Judgement Day would happen regardless of her actions.

That would mean she didn't blow up the research and Judgement Day actually occured.

So yeah, there is a possibility that in a slight alteration of the timeline Skynet went online and that in the second timeline the alteration didn't occur and Sarah stopped Skynet.

It is still possible to assume that Kyle was always John's father as long as he always goes back. So basically, T1 timeline, or T2 timeline.

Of course, since T1 came first, T2 takes the bullet for the inconsistent timeline.

Originally posted by lord xyz
So basically, T1 timeline, or T2 timeline.

Of course, since T1 came first, T2 takes the bullet for the inconsistent timeline.

Not exactly. That was what I was thinking before, but I actually just realized where the alteration (that I speculated about in my last post) was for the timeline. It's the T-1000 and the T-101 getting sent back in T2.

After all, if the second terminator had not been set back, then Sarah would not have destroyed Skynet (since she wouldn't have had access to all the infromation the T-101 gave her), so this theory (in combination with my other posts) would actually make the Terminator chronology work.

So to summarize:

Kyle always goes back to save Sarah.

Kyle and Sarah defeat first terminator and Kyle dies.

Timeline plays out, Judgement day occurs, Skynet decides to send back second terminator. John counteracts this by sending back the T-101.

Sarah gets the information on Skynet from the T-101, she takes steps to destroy the research and Skynet never comes to be.

So looking at it that way, the chronology could be sustained.

But as a side note, I did actually make a mistake in my first post. There actually WAS a third Terminator project where Cameron messed up the timeline. It was the Terminator 2: 3D attraction at Universal Studios. It is actually written and Directed by James Cameron, and it throws out the whole "time travel is one way" plot point and sends the T-101, the T-1000, and 10 year old John Conner "back to the future" where they travel to Skynet and face the T-1000000 (no, I am not making that up). So even to speculate on how that fits in when it is supposed to take place DURING a movie that has already been filmed (apparently just before blowing up Cyberdyne) would be simply impossible, so I won't even try to rap my head around that one. @_@

Originally posted by bugger
Not exactly. That was what I was thinking before, but I actually just realized where the alteration (that I speculated about in my last post) was for the timeline. It's the T-1000 and the T-101 getting sent back in T2.

After all, if the second terminator had not been set back, then Sarah would not have destroyed Skynet (since she wouldn't have had access to all the infromation the T-101 gave her), so this theory (in combination with my other posts) would actually make the Terminator chronology work.

So to summarize:

Kyle always goes back to save Sarah.

Kyle and Sarah defeat first terminator and Kyle dies.

Timeline plays out, Judgement day occurs, Skynet decides to send back second terminator. John counteracts this by sending back the T-101.

Sarah gets the information on Skynet from the T-101, she takes steps to destroy the research and Skynet never comes to be.

So looking at it that way, the chronology could be sustained.

But as a side note, I did actually make a mistake in my first post. There actually WAS a third Terminator project where Cameron messed up the timeline. It was the Terminator 2: 3D attraction at Universal Studios. It is actually written and Directed by James Cameron, and it throws out the whole "time travel is one way" plot point and sends the T-101, the T-1000, and 10 year old John Conner "back to the future" where they travel to Skynet and face the T-1000000 (no, I am not making that up). So even to speculate on how that fits in when it is supposed to take place DURING a movie that has already been filmed (apparently just before blowing up Cyberdyne) would be simply impossible, so I won't even try to rap my head around that one. @_@ That's some freaky deaky shit right there. T-mil?

Whatever, I guess I see your point. T1 is a paradox, T2 splits the timeline. Inconsistent shit, but whatever, it makes some sense.

Now, if we really need to solve this once and for all, lets see how T3 fits into it all.

Yeah, T-1000000. You never heard of it?

Apparently this thing guards Skynet...

Looks cool, but such a dumb name.

Originally posted by lord xyz
...such a dumb name.

Do you reckon? Well it was for a theme park ride, and from watching the making of T2: 3D on the T2: Judgment Day Special Edition DVD version, production of the ride did seem a little rushed. Maybe for a movie Cameron could have thought of something a little more, clever.

Mostow did with "T-X"...

T-X should be called something like T1250 or T1500. That thing should be T-anything.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Now, if we really need to solve this once and for all, lets see how T3 fits into it all.
The problem there is that T3 doesn't fit. It never did. There are so many written inconsistencies inside the story that it simply doesn't work inside the universe.

For example, they change what John's age was supposed to have been during T2, aging him a few years. His age was already well documented in T2 so it simply doesn't make sense to have altered it for T3.

Another thing is that there was an alternate ending filmed for T2 that showed Sarah as a grandmother and John as a father to a girl. In this ending it is revealed that Skynet never came to exist and John became a Senator. This of course goes against the T3 timeline that says Sarah dies in 1997, just after Judgement day would have occured.

So the way I look at it, T3 is a "what if" scenario, along with TSCC. I don't really hate either for it, but I don't exactly think that they mesh. I still enjoyed watching them, but I can't figure out how to piece them in with the pre-existing materials.

Oh, and even if we were to fit it in, Judgement day is always 8.28.1997, it is mentioned as such in T2 and T3, and we can assume Sarah learned that information in the original Terminator. After so much disscussion I finally looked up at the thread title and remembered why I was here.

True, sometimes I think of making my own T3 that takes place in the future(but a prequel nonetheless). It would open up as

"August 28, 1997"
"Skynet"

All robotic like, then have an explosion. Then a narration by John or Sarah, then tell the story of the war. This would then go all the way to the point when the Terminators and Kyle are sent back, and then end.

Originally posted by lord xyz
True, sometimes I think of making my own T3 that takes place in the future(but a prequel nonetheless). It would open up as

"August 28, 1997"
"Skynet"

All robotic like, then have an explosion. Then a narration by John or Sarah, then tell the story of the war. This would then go all the way to the point when the Terminators and Kyle are sent back, and then end.
Now THAT would have been a much better use of a third movie.

But it seems instead of one awesome movie, we're gonna get 1 good movie and what looks like 3 mediocre movies.

Quality > Quantity

YES! that's excellent idea! spot on!
But how does skynet exist in T3 when they blew it up in T2?

Originally posted by Doctor Lecter
Terminator takes place in 1984.

Terminator 2 takes place in 1994. (35 years in the past from 2029).

Terminator 3 takes place in 2004. (10 years after T2).

Here's what I think happens:

The original Judgement Day date was July 29th, 2004. However, when Cyberdyne gained the CPU from the Terminator's head, it pushed Judgement Day closer, due to the future technology.

Judgement Day then became August 29th, 1997.

But when the CPU was destroyed, along with Cyberdyne, it returned everything to normal. Judgement Day then was returned to July 29th, 2004.

That sounds pretty good to me, and it makes sense!

First off, all you guys may be wrong (I think) on the 29th of August. Yes, SkyNet and Cyberdyne Systems did become AI on that date, but it was 2 days later that the bomb was dropped, on August 31st 1997. I'm 65% positive, that the 31st of August 1997 was when humanity faced Judgement Day and the machines took over. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: Princess Diana of Wales was killed on the day as well. R.I.P.

Originally posted by MArkymark6275
First off, all you guys may be wrong (I think) on the 29th of August. Yes, SkyNet and Cyberdyne Systems did become AI on that date, but it was 2 days later that the bomb was dropped, on August 31st 1997. I'm 65% positive, that the 31st of August 1997 was when humanity faced Judgement Day and the machines took over. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: Princess Diana of Wales was killed on the day as well. R.I.P.

From Terminator 2:

Terminator: The Skynet funding bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn, at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. eastern time, August 29. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back?

Terminator: Yes. It launches its missiles against their targets in Russia.

John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?

Terminator: Because Skynet knows the Russian counter-strike will remove its enemies here.


Whilst it is not actually stated that all of the above happens on 29th August, because Skynet became self aware so early on that date (2:14 in the AM) I think it is presumed that the events happened on that day.

If you have a copy of T2 extended addition there is a deleted end scene on there set in the future where John is grown up and playing in a park with his daughter. Sarah is watching on and says "August 29th came and went." Whilst not cannon because it is a deleted scene, it is the only date that is mentioned.