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Lets talk about the holes in the matrix movies here collectively.

1 that i found is that ..if NEO can stop the bullets then he should be able to stop other people in the matrix as well and in this way he can kill everyone in the matrix quite easily but he didnt. why?

he cant STOP the bullets, he can REWRITE their trajectory, velocity, etc. He can't just will them dead, he doesn't have that kind of power.

so if he can rewrite their velocity... he can make it negative ..ie.. in the opposite direction .. now .. what do u think ?

In Reloaded, in the flipping car that the agent jumped on, the whole underside is empty, no trans, fuel tank, exhaust nuthin!!! It was pretty obvious to me !! Dont think it was to cut costs though

Jedi,

you know this how? Who said that Neo can change the trajectory of the bullets. Who said he could not stop them? How do you know what kind of powers he has?

Trust me JediHDM just knows he's to smart to start a discussion with.. He's been here way to long (a bit like the oracle)

If NEO can rewrite the trajectory of bullets, why cant he rewrite or cancell out the programm that wrote the agents

i know this because Morpheus told our hero that there was one born in the matrix who could rewrite the matrix as he saw fit...Neo is the ONE, thus, he has the power to rewrite the matrix, thus, he wills the bullets to stop, however, i think he is still bound by the rules of the real world, the natural laws thus, he cannot make the bullets return to their origins with enough speed to do anything. I think.

so why cant he rewrite the agents, or even cancell out there programming, if he can rewrite the matrix?

either he has not been able to achieve this mindset, or even this is impossible for Neo...He can't rewrite EVERYTHING, otherwise he could just write himself as UberNeO and beat EVERYONE...it doesn't work that way, he has to struggle somewhat.

He can cause fluctuations in even the simplest of equations. Said and answered in the Architect's speech.

the twins can destroy every single car they fire on..... except trinity's one... HOW?

also, when the agent jumps on one car and destroys it, why dont he do the same to trinity's car?

any LOGICAL explanations, more than welcome

Yes, because they are not meant to die there. Again, answered by the Architect

where were they meant to die, and if not on the freeway why bother with the agents???

Oh dear - It's all just another level of control.

then isnt it possible that all of the other Ones made the same choice as neo, and the lies were just to make neo think he was being different, yet still being controlled?

yep the agent are there to kill the keymaker (aparently), yet as a causality they cant kill the keymaker, he cant die until he gives the one the key and its because thats the way it was programed to happen. Everything is meant to happen, everything is control!! except smith I think he really is a problem for the omnipotent figure (i think we are yet to meet)

holy crap, i want to see a movie with UBERNEO!!!

Inside the Matrix, Neo is telekinetic, as seen when he summons the weapons off the wall in the mansion scene in Reloaded. So Neo most likely stopped the bullets telekinetically.

neo can create forces to move or stop objects

this is also shown in the Kid when somehow his phone is turned back on, energy is created from nowhere...

neo is still rewriting the code...

That's what telekinesis is...

i know

its cuz it was a caddy, n the commercial cannot show their car gettin blown up, come on, u know that it was the longedt commercial product tie in ever, thats y there was an escalade, it was the most blatent product tie in ever, evne though it was cool, it brought me back to the Italian Job w/the minis, thats why it doesant blow up.

very good...The Omega

Yes I think she deserves another basket!

more cookies for Omega

To so question movie logic is painfully pedantic and not very constructive.

But in any case, the Agent bounced off the first car, so exerting more force on it- he was using it as an aide to his jump. Trinity's he mrely landed on

exactly. Run and land in some sand and immediately jump out of it with all your might, your impact will be larger than just landing in it.

this will let all of you believe what you want, and still hold onto others beliefs.

The matrix is NOT one program, or one code. Its made up of TONS of programs and codes....

Remember when the oracle talks about programs...

The clouds, rain, Buildings, Cars, etc..are all DIFFERENT codes and programs WITHIN the matrix. Neo is able to re write certain program code and not others...thus being able to stop bullets (their own program within the matrix) or defy gravity (another program), or be super strong (another program) etc.

think about it, there are certain things he is able to do becuase he can change the code, and others he cannot....like shutdown the matrix or kill all agents.

Remember that they (the crew like in M1 before the lobby scene) can MAKE things like guns, cars, clothes for themselves within the matrix....therefore they can make programs and code as well, neo can just adjust some of it on the fly.

When they are in the elevator on the way up Neo can see the code in the building and how its all wired. I doubt that the building had that code from the matrix itself...it was probably put there by programs working for Mero etc.

there ya go.

Okey dokey people - yeah the burly brawl and chateu fight were pretty cool, but why doesn't Neo just jump into his enemies and destroy them from within ala the end of matrix 1? Did he forget?!

considering how badly that went with smith, i don't think i'd jump into anyone ever again.

did you even read my post? it kinda explains that part.

Neo cant control all programs and codes....just some...so in a sense no one can prove or disprove what his abilities are, but most likey he is limited.

Yes, Neo is limited, because he cant just rewrite EVERYTHING, he's trying to SAVE people, not make them all go crazy cause all of a sudden gravity has stopped or pigs fly or...He also has to think of the effect on humans, as well as the limitations placed on him by "natural laws"

wot do u mean pigs fly!!

what are you mad at me for? What did i do?

I think Omega hit the nail on the head. But if Neo can only rewrite inanimate objects what is your theory for the sentinals? (MWAM???!!!)

yes, i think MWAM...WHAT THEN?!

WHy the agents didn't just jump on Trinity's car (or the twins shoot and blow it up).

1) That is movie luck.
2) It is part of the script.
3) It is a well known fact that useless extras (be they people or cars) are surrounded by jugs of gasoline or other explosive material thus causing them to blow up with only the slightest provocation.

Seriously, I think in part it is because they are all trying to get the Key Maker back alive. So blowing up the car would be contrary to their mission. (If they wanted him dead, why did they keep him alive and imprisoned?)

yeh, the agents want him deleted, but the twins dont
just jumping on his car wouldnt be very efficient
also, if trinity died there, where is the choice later on?
(and one of the twins blew her a kiss, so why kill her?)

Also, the Twins didn't destroy the other cars, they scared and/or killed the drivers, causing them to swerve out of control, hitting other cars or the median...

ok physics people: if neo can stop bullets then he can alter entropy (in its basic form, entropy is why something breaks apart rather than form together). if he can alter entropy, he can do just about anything. entropy is the tendency of everything to become disorganized, so if he can alter it, he can in theory make everything organized, he can put ships back together, make thm fall apart, etc.... there are endless possibilities. with that said, let's all just accept the movie for what it is until revolutions is released

i agree...

no, it is different altogether to rewrite or "hack" the code of a bullet so that it stops, and rewrite the code of a ship (im assuming you are refering to cars or vehicles IN the matrix, as he has no *powers* outside the matrix) so that it works again. It would be VERY easy to stop a bullet, but VERY hard to make a ship go BACK in time, so that it is put back together, or make it age, to fall apart...he cannot govern entropy, b/c entropy is a natural law, whereas he can change gravity, or override it, because it is governed by a porgram...

this means that NEO is not still beleiving in himself as THE ONE

Neo must obviously have powers beyond the matrix because he knew that the squids where throwing a bomb, he destroyed the squidies with his "powers," and he has visions of the future in his dreams. To get a better grasp on what neo is doing you have to take a look at thing metaphysicaly.

Reality is the illusion that everything we encounter exists as a separate and distinct "thing" from our own existence. This is an arbitrary distintion made up by our physcy. Nothing can be proven to be real under this thinking.

"all that exists as persons, places and things lives only within our own consciousness" - goldsmith

I believe Neo power comes from his awakening to this truth.

"It is only because of ignorance that the Self appears to be finite. When ignorance is destroyed, the Self, which does not admit of any multiplicity whatsoever, truly reveals Itself by Itself, like the sun when the cloud is removed." - sankaracharya

under this thinking everything is really one, and neo as the annomly has transended our reality and become "the one." thusly he can can effect all others because they are an extention of "himself" and he is an extention of them. In the end this only my interpretation but i think that this is the line of thinking that the brothers go along, damn those guys are smart.

Another point I find interesting is Agent Smith. I think that when neo attacked agent smith at the end of the first movie the thing he "inserted" into smith was his ego, his sense of himself that chained him to this interpretation of reality. This frees neo from the illusion but also traps smith with in it, Smith has become the super-ego while neo has become the id. Smith is driven to repress and control all while neo is driven by the pleasure-principle(ie. instant gratification). I can't wait to see what happens in their final battle, Ego vs. Id very exciting.

Oh, and sorry for writing so much

i thought u called Neo a pig

Magitech> Hmmm, very interesting...

Well, I am no fan of Goldsmith- I think Descartes, for all his loony maths and God-proving, covered the area better- and I believe in the veracity of sense experience. I cannot say I believe that interpretation, Magitech. I believe the truth will be far more down to Earth, as it were.

However, I seem to be greatly straying from topic, my bad. Anyone have any holes in the Movies that are not just pedantic nitpicks?

Yeah, the cop-out theory I am going to call MWAM. The solution for people who can't think of the real answer

Plot of one in every five Star Trek episodes, I call it.

Sifer> What if the movie really ends with MWAM?

Sifer> or the theory for those too intelligent to accept any other...JJ, Sifer...

MWAM theory can never be true
ZION is a real world but it appears as a programmed world

what makes you SO sure the MWAM is not possible...?

i jus saw both movie for the 1st time tonite. loved the 1st thought second one sucked. thats MY opinion

well, you are *cough*not*cough* entitled to your opinion...JJ

i didnt think it had much to it. thats all except 4 great fite seens

carnage...there are many levels the matrix can connect on... the second one brought so much to the table and what you choose to take from it is your decision. And you just saw them for the first time. You may want to: 1) watch the animatrix 2)play enter the matrix 3) watch the matrix revisited 4) watch all of it incessantly until you grab much you can handle. Then wait a few days...and do it again. M2 has meanings and ideas hidden deeper than M1. The fight scenes prelude to the way neo has grown into his abilites and how they will grow later. and watch the trailers for M3. and as a last suggestion....go back to school and learn how to spell "fight". thanks

wow...harsh...but yes, you need to watch it more than once to REALLY appreciate the movie...watch it even a tenth of the number of times i have seen it, and you will (should) understand it...

I just had a big revelation as i was going through this thread. Everyone was talking about how Neo has this special code. But how....are the people created with this "harmony of mathemtical precision". I guess what i am saying is outside of the matrix they are human. They are not represented by code. But they are when in the matrix. So...why cant the machines detect this code and erradicate the problem before there is one. Or is this code only visible once the one realizes it? Something to think about.

oh yeah...and could any person be the one? are they really human if they are created from code?

they aren't created from the code, but the code is like, randomly inserted into a human...and, no, the purpose is not to find the carrier of the anomaly code and eradicate them, because, then the Matrix would stop...the anomaly is like a pressure release valve for the disbelief and doubts of the humans plugged into the matrix, if the One is suddenly gone without fulfilling his purpose, there goes the matrix...

if zion were to be destroyed along with the one...so there were no more humans outside the matrix. Would the machines have to worry..there is no one there to help the anomaly realize his/her potential. So is it a threat? I guess we would have to know how the very first people were freed to answer that question. That would seem like a good way to end it. Plus if it is randomly inserted can't they detect the anomaly code and just not use it. And the matrix would not stop...the anomaly is no loner connected to the matrix which is like him being dead. I think the machines fail to realize the connection the one truly has to them. The one only has a purpose because the machines created one as a way to further control the humans in the event of the one beiing realized.

yes, it is still a threat, because all the humans in the matrix are the ones to worry about, because, like i said, if they dont have a release valve for their doubts, then...

the first people were freed by the architect, i dont know how so dont ask, they just were...And th machines created the PROPHECY, not the one, the one is created by the humans, subconciously. The only control is through the Oracle and the prophecy...if the One were not inserted, the matrix would die...

well systemic one like i said i saw the movies for the 1st tome last night and i havent played the game or seen the animatrix but i do plan to. i wasnt at all insulting u guys or the movies at all. in a way thanks for ur tips.and another thing dont try to insult my intelligence level i know how to spell fight. thanks

Are we tlking just about the bullet stopping here?....Cos so far Neo has stopped every bullet!

I would rather we didn't stray from the subject.

youre awesome sifer.. thanks for posting that

u hear ... its funny! ha ha.. u must hear ... its funny
if NEO can never die in the MATRIX (as TRINITY is there to kiss him and to make him alive) so y he fears while fighting with SMITHs (As he ran away in RELOADED)
i think SMITH is a goog boy..he doesnt fear at all

If NEO is not ment to die, what was the reason for agents to try and kill him in the first matrix? I mean: Agents are controlled by matrix, Matrix was created by architect, Architect doesn`t want NEO to die! WHY? PLEASE! GIVE ME SOME KIND OF CLEVER EXPLANATION!

Quote: If NEO is not ment to die, what was the reason for agents to try and kill him in the first matrix? I mean: Agents are controlled by matrix, Matrix was created by architect, Architect doesn`t want NEO to die! WHY? PLEASE! GIVE ME SOME KIND OF CLEVER EXPLANATION!


I think that Neo was meant to die, he did! it all ties in with the story of him not realising he is the one until he realises he is in love. To do this he must be revived by the one he loves to awaken his love and him being the one!

And the Architect does not want Neo to die becos it would destroy his little project! But the whole system works on a series; of choices and understanding those choices, Neo has already made his choices when he arrives at the point were he makes the chioce directly, what he really is doing is understanding it, hence he has the ability to change his choice.

Neo knows he is not going to restart the series of finding the one and creating a knew zion, but he doesnt realise he chooses this until the architect indicates its due to love and trinity!

Soz bout length- I babble- its probably irrelevant anyhow!

Basically, what Plasma said. The agents are programmed to go after the rebels, so that the rebels do not grow comfortable in their fight. The Agents are there to, basically, make the ONE realize his powers. With Neo, this involved killing him, so that his love could be tested. This is not what has happened with the others, though, because they did not love. The architect wants Neo to reset the matrix, and the Oracle is used in this way to implement the prophecy, in order that the ONE go to the SOURCE to stop the war. The Agents, the Oracle do what they are programmed to do, and this is to create the one and send him to the Source, even if by their presence in the Matrix.

Ok, I have a "hole" from Reloaded.

As seen in part 1, operators on the ships can easily see what's going on in the matrix, so why did the operator allow Smith to exit once he had infected Bane?

Unknown>they don't know what the smith code represents now, 'whatever it is, he's not reading like an agent'. also, morpheus asks 'is that what he was doing to you?' and EVEN NEO (who can read the code like no other) doesn't know exactly what was happening so it's not illogical the operator didn't think much of it.

I see what you're saying, but the operator would have seen some kind of program with an alternate code attacking Bane, and then Bane's coding changes. I think they would have gotten a little suspicious.

very interesting... but the oracle didnt think neo was the one... morpheus was neo's only believer.... so how was the oracle steering neo to the path of the one?

The oracle KNEW neo was the one, she used something we call REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY to make him think he wasn't the one, so that he would save Morpheus "without him, we're lost"...she Tricked Neo into becoming the one...very sneaky like

I look at it like the Agents are a filter.
If someone who is not the One enters the source, it causes a problem and might destroy the Matrix. In order to make sure he/she is the One, the Agents must put the person through a series of tests. If they are not the One, they die. If they are the One, they live. Then, they may enter the source.

Answer this one. Why is there no driver in the car that the agent smashes?

really????????? i m gonna see reloaded again (27th time) lol

there is!

yeah, there is

a woman

Also, The Oracle never stated that Neo wasn't The One. He says something like "So I'm not The One?" and she replies "I'm sorry, maybe in another life", possibly meaning that she's sorry that he is the one.

or that he has to THINK he's not the one in order to BECOME the one...

..sifers thing..

if NEO can give life someone in The Matrix (its such a big thing)
than y cant he stop big things in it (other than small bullets) ?

Maybe Neo could revive Trinity because of their special connection. I have a question how come when Trinity or Morpheus asks him questions about who told him things he evades?

NEO's love with trinity isnt a genuine reason

bleh

he doesnt really evade. i dont think he had time to get into.. he was prolly so upset about it he didnt even want too... and its not like he just went poof ur alive trinity.. he took the bullet out

lol i like what u did with ur sig

Neo probably just restarted her heart and rewrote the coding so that there was no wound.

Here's another hole. How do all the Agent Smiths get into the backdoor hallway without any keys? Throughout the movie, it's shown that a key is needed, but they don't have any.

he bakes key-shaped cookies, i thought that was blatently obvious

lol

Smith is a virus. He can do anything he wants. The question is how Smith knew when to open the door and which one.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, because he opens the door when Neo, Morpheus, and the Keymaker are in the hallway, and also when Ghost/Niobe are in there.
Even though Smith is a virus, he can't just alter the codes to create a backdoor.

remenber what SMITH told NEO at that time
"this is the difference between me and you Mr. Anderson"
so i hope u know now how SMITH ws there?

Smith getting access to the halls?

"They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors and are holding all the keys..."

I couldn't resist the temptation of coming back to the board - but I haven't read any of the spoilers and plot revealers and I don't intend to. BUT, if what I tried to tell everyone was correct then man I am gonna start takin the piss

Also, burlyman: "...Sifer's thing..."

What thing?

i cant remember, it was like the things one has to do to become..
????
and one of them was to forget...

LOL

Right, my take on the oracle's viwes on Neo being the One:

Shes says the ''in another life maybee''
and ''being the One is alot like being in love''

I believe she means that Neo will not be the One until he recognises certain things about himself and certain things happen, ie. Neo realising his love for Trinity and him dying- which he then wakes up as the One in another life!

There are loads of other things she says which just mean he needs to realise or do these things to, in fact become the one!

that happened in M1!!

yeahj i know but earlier in the thread peps were talkin about what the oracle was sayin about Neo notbeing/being the One, that and im just slow!

Smith's no longer an agent of the matrix, and none of the other agents are shown in the hallway, but anyways, it still doesn't explain how he knows when someone is in the hallway.

he doesn't know when someone is in the hallway, remember ETM...he ran into Niobe...

"damn, not who i was expecting"

I haven't seen that scene in a while. I thought he entered the hallway, thinking it was Neo there, but it's Niobe/Ghost. But if he said "Not who I was expecting," then that means that he entered the hallway, thinking it was Neo.

Errm the Agents ARE shown in the halls - in the first movie - as is Smith.

What part are they shown in the hallways?

coming into the interrogation scene

I just watched it, and it never shows them in the hallway... but it does show that the Architect is watching.

Which interrogation scene, the one with Neo, or with Morpheus?

It's not the Morpheus scene either, because when the agent comes in, you can see chairs behind him.

neo

its the neo interrogation, when they walk in, they enter through the hallway...

Wait, then Neo came through the hallway too?
No, he was suprised in Reloaded...

Then you argue that he entered from the normal door and they through the hall, right?
Well, they were leading him out of the building so they probably stayed with him...

Hey! This is actually interesting...

or they entered through the hallway via a key, while Neo entered from the police station...they can do that...

Uhhh, that's what I meant when I said:


Then you argue that he entered from the normal door and they through the hall, right?
Well, they were leading him out of the building so they probably stayed with him...

thinks....

thinks some more until head explodes

Like this?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/blowup.gif

It's a pickle, no doubt about it...

smith can go anywhere in the matrix without permissionand thats the difference between him and NEO
actually SMITH has become totally FREE

eh and after they bugged him they probably went straight through his front door

Neo can't have too much power...or there will be no movie.

Yeah, this is no "Ultamite Power" movie... that would be pointless

They never show the agents coming in from the backdoor hallway. They merely enter the room.

Smith is not totally free, he is still an agent of the system, whether he believes it or not...and what does the hallway the enter through look like? the backdoor hallway...

Yeh, and if there was only a split second to do it, how did they all manage to get in there before the Neo and Morpheus saw them?

This was in response to the question about how agent smith knew what time to get into backdoors etc.

I looked at the part where Smith meets Niobe/Ghost. Anyone watching can tell that he knew someone was there. He even said that s/he wasn't who he was expecting, meaning that he knew someone was there and thought it was Neo.

Look closely at the door that the agents use to go to the interrogation room. On BOTH sides of the door are the same kind of knob. It has a card lock above the knob, and the knob isn't round. It is nothing like the doors in the hallway.

going back to page 2(i think)......
if you all think of the matrix as a computer game, it may be simple to explain. i'll try to explain:

the matrix is like a game. The architect built the game. the oracle is something that makes sure everything runs fine. The various programs and coding just make up the game. Lets say the game was halflife.

you have the main game(the matrix), but then you have all these weird things like agent smith(who could be like counterstrike, just an addon or expansion). Neo cant change the entire game, but he can do things in the game, like flying(just like a noclip cheat).

i'll continue.....

neo is basically a cheater inside a game. he can defy gravity and do things normal players cant do. he is like a modder.

but what i dont understand is how he can stop zion from being destroyed. i mean, he can read the coding and everything inside the matrix, but the sentinels are outside the matrix. ????????

anyone help me?

but jedi.... he is unplugged!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes, that means he is no longer part of the matrix(i mean, he cant be controlled by the matrix).

the other agents still plugged into the matrix have to obey the matrix.
thats why they go after the keymaker (they are told to go) and why only smith goes after neo(he doesnt obey the matrix)

thats it
lets see, see what jedi comes up with

Mist it's like say you were playing a game where you learned how to ohh say...kick someone in the nuts. Well Neo can take that knowledge and apply it to the real world

ok, so thats a bad esample. I think he is the only one who can stop zion from being destroyed because he is the only thing that the humans have to barter with. Does that make sense?

????
but he cant read code outside
???

mist.. from what we can tell about revo hes not going to save zion at all in the since ur thinking..

the one thing he does do is kill a **** load of sentinals.. we see this in the preview but that is on his way to 01 the machine city.. now how he will save zion you ask? he will stirke a bargain with deus ex machina (god of machines, "the speak machine" to get them to call off the attack on zion and jack neo in to stop smith

thats akin to what I was trying to say. But I think thats it forumcrew. However, you never know. Revs might pull some wierd plot twist on us. However your theory being the simplest is most likely the correct one.

yea i agree never know with those crazy directors

o people! u have spotted so many holes
i fear if the matrix sinks

JediHDM, can you please explain about the interrogation scene's doors?

what do you want explained?

that is true...that is true...hmmm, ok, then, it is just a hallway...