the spoon...??

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Agent
Assuming Neo was in the Matrix when he met the budda boy at the Oracle's place in Matrix 1...and also assuming Neo was NOT in the Matrix when he recieved a spoon as a gift when he was at Zion in Matrix 2. The first spoon wasn't real, so how could he have recieved that same unreal spoon at Zion? Or wasn't it the same spoon at all and the guy just gave it to him to remind him of their earlier meeting in the Matrix?
What's your thoughts on this?

JediHDM
it wasn't the same spoon, but niether was it the same person. My theory, the kid knows the truth about Zion (ie not real) because he is not human (ie Michael like the archangel) and he gave Neo the spoon to have him realize that Zion, like the Matrix, is not real...

Agent
That makes sense, dude.... Especially after what the archtect said about Zion...being rebuilt a few times. Makes one wonder what is really real....OMG..this doing my head in...hehehehe

any other theories..??

droopy1592
Yeah, I had been thinking about that too, why give him another spoon?

SiriusBlackRIP
Alternative theory: Not saying this is the truth because I pretty much agree with Jedi. Assuming that he is human, in the six months that have passed since M1 the budda boy could have been freed. In Revolutions he could be living in Zion and the spoon is just to let Neo know this. It is possible.

slinger
Whatever the kid is, I'm sure he's important.

SiriusBlackRIP
Are you referring to the Kid (Michael, Animatrix) or the Kid (Bald Buddha Boy, M1)? Because I believe that Micheal will be important in Revolutions but Buddha Boy won't.

tshirt
This ties into something I was thinking about last night.

Morpheus admits that he thought he found five other "Ones".
The Architiect said there were 5 before him.
Could Morpheus be a program that has lived through each version of the Matrix?

His function is not to find the "One" to free mankind. But rather to find and deliver the "One" that the machine world can use to keep mankind imprisoned in the matrix.

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

SiriusBlackRIP
tshirt> that is pretty much what I believe about Morpheus. Check this thread out started by Sifer, it's quite old but what you have just said has been discussed here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10458&highlight=Morpheus

tshirt
The one problem with the theory is that the others on the ship know about Morpheus' other candidates. That would mean they are all in on the joke.

-- A way out of that is that Morpheus has two sets of five previous "Ones". One set are the "Ones" from different versions of the Matrix. The second set are five potential "Ones" in this version of the Matrix. The crew knows about the current set of potential "Ones" but not the prior versions of the Matrix and the "Ones" from those.

The sad part, is if this is true, the Oracle is in on the scam.

JediHDM
I dont think Morpheus is a program, for the same reason i dont think Trinity or even Neo are programs, unless the Real world is a program, too many flaws with that theory...

tshirt
I agree. Lots of flaws. But.

M. Night Shyamalan is the current king of leading you down one path, pulling the rug out from under you and showing you what you have missed. (Signs, Unbreakable, The Sixth Sense)

If M3 ends with some kind of similar conclusion (I don't think it will) showing us how we missed that character X was really bad (or good), it would cement the trilogy as the best ever. To keep something like that going for three movies and only then pull the rug out from everyone's feet would be incredible.

JediHDM
yes, i agree...totally change paths, change direction, velocity, even your position...very good movie indeed.

tshirt
And, as for the kid (Michael, Animatrix), counting down had this photo of him:

jiggaman8604
WHOA you guys....your looking WAY too deep for your own good... i think he recieved the spoon as inspiration to do good while in the matrix, not some deep purpose to tell him zion isnt really....you guys gotta try and stay in shallow water

rysdigital
the morpheus finding 5 other 'Ones' was taken out. they changed their minds about it and the script.

Jakanden
Aye this is my thought as well. People are reading WAAAY too deep into these movies. And where did it say that Morpheus thought there were 5 others?

tshirt
Didn't Neo ask Morpheus about whether he found others, a little before they met the Oracle. Morpheus admitted that he thought he found the "One" before, but that he was wrong and they died and he was all upset about that.

And, in a separate scene Cypher is complaining about how Morpheus is always talking about the prophecy and the One and how all the other ones died.


"CYPHER, I'll be the didn't tell you that this wasn't the first time he thought he found the One."

This is said right before Cypher's scene in the restuarant with the big piece of steak.

It has been a while since I saw the movie (excuse to see it again?) maybe I just picked it up from the forum.

Jakanden
I saw the movie recently and cypher never said that. Perhaps you read a script that had it in? As said above, it was going to originally be in the movie but was taken out.

burlyman
here we are..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11586&highlight=trinity

JediHDM
that wasn't in the movie, it was cut out and changed...originally, it was created to be a single movie, but then edited to allow two sequels...And if you read the interview with the Wachowski bros, they say there is more allusions and references than one will ever find, so i TRY to find them, to see how much MORE the brothers are GENIUSES...I dont think i am going to far at all...you may be used to shallow movies (ie xXx) however, i am going to try and find everything i can, which is partly the whole point for me being here...so...

dave123
so whats with the lucky charm that link got? will it save the universe in revos?

JediHDM
i dunno, but i can tell you one thing...it saved both Neo and Trin in the matrix, then the lives of Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, and Link with the tow bomb...so, i think it is important, it also made Neo make the correct decision, or perhaps Link wore it BECUASE Neo would make the right decision...? Who knows...do you?

dave123
do i know? in a word: No

i'm sure we aint seen the last of it big grin

Agent
"Aye this is my thought as well. People are reading WAAAY too deep into these movies. "

That's probably why most of us are here, Jakanden...

Sifer
The Spoon: Realise the Truth. The Prophecy is a farce etc.

tshirt
Alright, that is going to far. The good luck charm didn't do any of that. It didn't jump up and push a button and save Neo and Trinity. It didn't throw itself ontop of the squiddies and stop them. And it didn't deflect a bullet headed for Neo or Trinity's heart. It was nothing but a joke.



As for the Cypher comment, I grabbed it from an online script.
http://www.harcon.co.nz/matrix/matrixscript.htm

Now that I have been through so many versions of everything, I cannot swear it was in the original movie. SO, I may just have to order the original Matrix and Reloaded at the same time.

JediHDM
the cypher comment was from the original scriptment, not the one used for the movie...and i was only joking about the saving thier lives part, they were MEANT to live...

burlyman
jedi, if your shouting at me. im sorry, i am just a trafficker of information. i agree with your post. smile

Dryden
i still think any and all information that was NOT in the movie CANNOT be used to describe what happens....it just isnt fair. thats my opinion. so original scripts or not, if it wasnt said in the movie, you cant use it as evidence..period.

JediHDM
burly> i wasn't shouting, just emphasizing...
and Dryden, i agree with you...

The Omega

jiggaman8604
Refer to my previous statement omega....your thinking WAY too much... the little kid just wants to inspire neo, not tell him that his whole belief system is crashing down...If your right, hats off, ill spank my own ass and call myself charles but geez...its a little wooden spoon

JediHDM
correction: it is metallic.

and it is important, not just some after thought, but, rather, a pivotal moment...the Brothers even said their favorite Quote is "there is no spoon", so...the second spoon is supposed to tell Neo something, of course, what, we cannot decide on, like everything else...

Sifer
As I have said: The Prophecy is a lie - Come to realise the truth.

Korri
i sat for two hours trying to bend a spoon....it didnt work

The Omega
Jiggaman> Ok, Charles wink

Korri> You only have to realize the truth... smile

Korri
there is no spoon!!

jiggaman8604
HAHAH </charles>

tshirt
What exactly is the Prophecy?

From M1 it is stated as

"When the Matrix was first built there was a man born inside that had the ability to change what he wanted, to remake the Matrix as he saw fit. It was this man that freed the first of us and taught us the secret of the war; control the Matrix and you control the future....When he died, the Oracle at the temple of Zion prophesied his return and envisioned an end to the war and freedom for our people. That is why there are those of us that have spent our entire lives searching the Matrix, looking for him. "


That is not very exact. Does that mean the humans win the war if the Matrix remains in place but other humans are running it? Or that we are free if we are allowed to choose (consciously) whether to live in the Matrix or the real wordl? Or does the Matrix have to be destroyed? Or is the war not won until all the machines are destroyed?

Seems a little ambiguous. Also seems like the prophecy is not a lie, but just has not come true yet. Will Neo be the One to bring it to fruition? Don't know, but the movie isn't over and there are endless possibilities.

tshirt
Another funny thing about the Oracles' prophicies. In M1 she stated:

ORACLE Hmmm. You sure got the gift, but it's tricky. I'd say the bad news is, you're not the one. Still got a lot to learn. Maybe next life.

THis turns out to be correct. The Neo that met the Oracle was not the "One". It was not until he dies and then comes back to life (HIS NEXT LIFE) that he is the "One".

That Oracle. She's a funny one! Always talking in riddles and stuff.

Dryden
The Oracle: But you already know what I'm going to tell you.

Neo: I'm not The One.

Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.

Neo: What?

The Oracle: Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go. What's funny?

Neo: Morpheus. He...he almost had me convinced.

She said he was the one, right to his face.

droopy1592
Fishy stuff... Noodle is beyond baked, it's burnt, thinking of the possibilities.

Korri
laughing out loud as long as its your noodle and not your cookie were ok

JediHDM
very nice, tshirt

droopy1592
Don't play with my cookies!

burlyman
M1 - cypher drops his phone. gives them up
they drive off to see the oracle
neo sees spoon boy and realises the truth
neo meets the oracle...

M2 - bane cuts himself, is going to kill neo. kid saves him
kid gives neo the spoon "he said it was important"
they fly off to broadcast depth
neo meets the oracle...

droopy1592
Maybe that's why he sent the spoon, to save neo....

JediHDM
thats what i said, except i don't think the buddha boy sent it at all, i think the "kid" brought it to save Neo...

Agent
two things - ONE: there IS a spoon
TWO: I have bever seen anyone bend it...TV doesn't count.

Verity
Well...all the children that were in the oracle's appt., we have to assume, were also plugged into the Matrix at some point and then freed...So why couldn't the same child have a spoon outside of the Matrix? The Kid said he was an orphan!...He was a potential "one"...So he plugs in to be tested I suppose. Now that the Oracle knows Neo is the"one", he sends him the spoon so Neo can remember he can control whatever he wants with his mind!....Wasn't that the whole concept of "there is no spoon"?? confused

JediHDM
...or perhaps Michael gave him the spoon, not spoonie...

AliasNeo15
i still think that he gave him the spoon becus the Oracle told him to. I think that the spoon is going to be what helps Neo get out of that stupid coma. There will be a spoon in that world and hes probly going to bend it. At the same time, the spoon in the Real World will bend and will giv everyone a sign that he is still alive. There's a reason for everythingthumb up

Verity
Hmmm...Why would Michael know about the first spoon tho?...Wasn't he freed 6 months after Neo accepted his condition of the "one"? confused

JediHDM
yes, but if he is Michael, as in the archangel, as some (myself included) believe, well, then...

AliasNeo15
maybe the orphan told him about it. a lot of storys might hav been told

Verity
Guess we'd have to ask the Wachowski's! wink

Joseph_Kerr
The Matrix is just a huge Multi-player game. wink

The Omega
JediHDM> Yes, continue? The Kid's Matrix name is Michael Karl Popper. Should that have a bearing when Thomas A. Anderson does not?
So how excatly is The Kid supposed to know about the "virtual" spoon?

AliasNeo15
the orphan might hav told himmessed

JediHDM
but Thomas A Anderson DOES have a bearing...

The Omega
The Son of Anders? Kinda funny as Donald Duck is called Anders And in Danish big grin
Okay, seriously: So if Michael means something, what then does Karl and Popper mean? And how should The Kid know about the virtual spoon?

AliasNeo15
maybe the orphan told him wacko

JediHDM
perhaps the names are references to "GREAT" minds...Karl would be Marx, but not sure about the other two...i dont know everything, i said it was a theory...

The Omega
JediHDM> Well, that's what we do here. Theorize. It just sounded to me as if your Michael-theory meant The Kid would know about the virtual spoon through some metaphysics (or your MWTM).

Does anyone - speaking of Matrix names - have a clue about Morpheus' and Trinity's names in the Matrix? At all?

JediHDM
i dont think they have ever been refered to...although, perhaps, if someone can go back (i'll go look) and see if the news articles have Morpheus' name as well as his alias...

Omega> yes, partly, MWAM, but it wasn't my theory, someone else had posted it before...

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.