Juggernaut or The Hulk?

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LeAtHerRFace
Sorry Hulk fans but Id have to go with JuggBoy.

keif
hulk..juggernaught is indestructable pretty much but as the hulk gets madder he gets stronger...

LeAtHerRFace
Yea but Juggernaught is INDESTRUCTABLE.

VallejoKid707
i would have to go with hulk...

Hegemon875
Definately the Hulk he just gets stronger and stronger the more he fights. And there's no way that Juggernaut could out smart him.

Magee
the hulk...as the angrier he gets the stronger and more determined he becomes so juggernaut would just ge worne down.

slinger
I'd have to go with The Hulk. evil face

thorncrawler
sorry to disagre with every one but there is nothing on earth that can stop the juggernaut, that includes the hulk, hulk would get angry and angrier until his rage would consume him whereas juggs would just laugh it off

ThePunisher
i don't know who would win, I'm going for Juggernaut. Just cause he is cooler than some green guy in purple shorts! But the fight could go either way.

Maelstrom
I'm not sure strength can beat strength, mabey they would both lose their power if they fought it out

krazymoe
thats a fight I'd like to see

Anyone know if those two ever have actually gone head to head in a Marvel story?

It would be damn close... and I could be wrong... but Nothing can stop the Juggernaut!

Morph
Juggs isn't indestructable, he's been defeated many a time. Hulk would own his ass.

jasonfreak2875
Hulk

h0ck3yh0rr0r
i say they even in strenght. Juggernaut is VERY powerful. same with Hulk. In knowldge i think Juggernaut is a little smarter than Hulk. As hulk gets stronger the dumber he gets. so its really hard to say.

ragesRemorse
Hulk has no intelligence just instict. He is the same as a caveman. However Hulk's instinct makes intelligence irrelevant in a fight. Here is the entire philosophy,and instict of the hulk summed up by words from hulk himself........hulk no like..HULK SMASH!! this is hulks famous quotes. you see what i mean as intelligence having no advantage to the hulks philosophy. i mean when hulk is talking about you and he says HULK SMASH! nothing short of jesus christ is gonna save you

Im sorry but the juggernaut got his ass beat by hulk himself. I know these two have met numerous times. I have two of the issues. Both, The hulk just tottaly unloads on jugg head. These were the older versions of juggernaut though. but still. It's the hulk. Hulks strength would be no match for the bolts that hold juggernauts helmet on. After hulk gets the helmet off. One weak punch from the Hulk would turn juggernauts skull into mush. Hulk went toe to toe with superman, He bested the man of steel. even though he lost it was the first time supes ever showed fatigue from a physical battle, and he only lost because Banners long time friend doc samson stopped the fight so banner wouldnt be in a coma after he de-formed from hulk back into banner. I dont think many people know the true potential the hulk holds, when hulk reaches Hulk Rage He has been estimated to hold energy equal to that of a super nova. Hulk rage was only reached ounce, the result was a city in ruins. LOL

h0ck3yh0rr0r
well i guess i agree with u RR.

LeAtHerRFace
But still it says in this Marvel Dictionary Info thing my friend has. And it says the strongest ppl in marvel are Juggernaut, Apacolypes, and Collosus. Besides Jugg is smarter too.

el_barto
juggernout would kick hulks ass big time if u have actualy READ the comics THE JUGGERNOUT CONNOT BE STOPED I REPEAT HE CONNOT BE STOPPED yea hulk would get mad but where would that get him yea he'll say gur growl and mabye land A punch but the juggernout cannot be stoped hulk is strong but i will say it one last time JUGGERNOUT CANNOT BE STOPPED DEAL WITH IT

el_barto
i think that it MIGHT be a fair fight but it would be jugg that would win if jugg figured out a way to put that crystal of his in his skin so that he WOULD be unstopable and undafeatable

Blind-Enemy
Juggernaut and the Hulk have fight soooooo many times and the Hulk ALWAYS win.
is very relative saying who will win; the NOTHING CAN STOP THE JUGGERNAUT line is very over-rated, is just a saying, is like his signature, the Hulk┤s madder he gets stronger he becames thing is really hard to top

gambit88
well here is how it is in the marvel encycopedia
hulk intelligence is a 6 on a scale of 7 though he is a unstoppable beast he is still bruce banner a 6 is rated as a super genius
juggernaut intelligence is a 2 out of 7 which is a normal level in other words he's no smarter than me
hulk speed is a 3 out of a 7 which is superhuman peak 700 mph
juggernauts is a 2 out of a 7 which is again normal though he is so called unstoppable he still doesn't go faster than say an olympic athlete
hulk and juggernauts durability are the same at a 7 out of 7 which is virtually indestructable
energy projection there the same also a 1 out of 7 which is none
fighting skills is what levels it off if nothing else does hulk is a 4 out of 7 in fighting skills which is experienced fighter and juggernaut is only a 3 out of 7 which is only had some training and remember this is all out of the marvel encyclopedia
not to mention hulk does have a healing factor equal to wolverines so call me stupid but statistically i would hafta say the hulk.

ragesRemorse
if your going by the marvel encyclopedia your not using true comic book distictions in your final result of who would win in a VS battle. The marvel excyclopedia is bogus on many levels of it's facts. It states apocalypse as being the strongest mutants. Every true marvel readers know that the dark pheonix and X-man are the strongest mutants as of now. It gives x-man a bottom level of power, when he has exceeded the dark pheonix. Juggernaut is NOT unstoppable. Look at the facts of his losses in the past. WOLVERINE. OMEGA RED, ROUGUE. SPIDERMAN, EXODUS, And the Hulk have turned the juggernaut into a little bit*ch. All these above stated characters among others have stopped and beat the juggernaut. And hulk's intelligence is not 6 im sorry. You can take your marvel encyclopedia bullshit else where. When bruce is the hulk he is no longer in controll or aware of his conscious. This means he is the HULK. Everyone knows the Hulk is a primative mind. Excluding the newer intelligent hulk, but im going by originals. Simple fact is that juggernaut is of course a formitable foe,but in the end proves to be no real match for the HULK. If you still dont believe this. There is printed proof in previous issues

Nightmare
Juggernaut all the way, he would beat thay green sissy purple shorts wearing idiot. "me Hulk, me smash", he is like a monkey!

godfather
theres one small fact here people are forgeting - Juggernaut Can NOT be killed, the only way is to stop him(untill he comes back), read the comics - Hulk can be killed so if this went toe to toe till death there is only one winner - juggs - hulk maybe albe to stop the Juggernaut but kill him impossable, on there other hand hulk can be killed

ragesRemorse
juggernaut can be killed thats a fact. He gets his power from the m'kraan crystal. Juggernaut is invincible inside his suit of armor that his powered by the m'kraan. take him out of the suit he's nothing more than a muscle man. Jugger nauts armor was destroyed by the gladiator before. The x-men got his helmet off, Xavier shut his mind off, they took the armor off and gladiator threw it in the sun. He did later escape and get even stronger armor. My point is all hulk needs to do is get past the armor. This may be a bit challenging for the Hulk, but after going toe to toe with the strongest hero in the world (superman) jugg heads armor would be nothing.

godfather
you right about crystal, but not about the armor,juggernaut is still invincible out side the suit as long as he has the crystal, that is the sorce of all his power, the x-men did get is helmet off but only so that pro x could use telepathic powers on him, this then only made him forget why he was fighting, he did come back and he is still out there(not been killed), the only way that it would be possible to kill him is to the find the crysatal and take aways his powers! and i don't think the hulk his cleaver enough to do that.

ragesRemorse
No During the comic series "x-tinction agenda" Back when jeggernaut had the crystal embeded within the armor. The x-men got his helmet off and xavier did indeed shut down his mind allowing them to get his armor off. Seeing how the crystal was through out the armor, he was just a regualar man, gladiator then threw the armor in the sun. Juggs later escaped from omega, and used a peice of the crystal he had hidden away. Magneto asisted him on creating a new suit, with particales of the crystal made into the armor. It is said though that the second time around juggernaut fused his physical body with the crystal though, however this was never confirmed. Even assuming this was true, The Pheonix's telepathic abilities can peirce juggs armor. X-man is another mutant that juggernaut is no match for, X-man tore juggernauts armor off using only his teelepathy, This was back during age of A-poc when X-man was still just discovering his abilities.

godfather
totally agree with X-man and Pheonix's but then the hulk would not stand a chance either they are in total diffrent classes,

Lag
If X-man can tare of his armor using only telepathy the Hulk could definetly rip it off him, look what he did to Onslaught. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't his healing factor better then Wolverine's and Sabretooth's. I'm actually asking because I'm not sure about it. Everyone is talking about Jugg head's defensive ability, what could he do to the Hulk offensively. Not a damn thing, maybe he could piss him off more , but that's about it. I don't know much about Juggernaut except he's Kain Marko brother of Prof X and he get's his powers from a crystal and he's really strong, but I do know lot's about Hulk and he's lifted a mountain before, that to me is the decisive factor. I don't see Juggernaut lifting mountains.

Morph
If this were true...don't you think the X-Men would be long-gone by now?

godfather
your right morph, and ive been doing some reasearch, and even if the hulk can get the suit of which he won't beacuse jugg's can put up a force field(you can only get it down by Mentally probing him ), jugg's skin can not be penatrated by any Physical force, and i mean thor could not hurt him never mind the hulk!!!!!!!!!!

godfather
one last thing - the x-men have one very special wepon - professor x, jugg's can be stopped Mentally!!! anyone else like spiderman have only held him at bay(spiderman buried him in concrete, which he stopped there for year, but it did not kill him ASM#230)

ragesRemorse
I'm not sure on the issue numbers, but the x-force was chasing juggernaut. Juggernaut made it to newyork. Spidey got in touch with the x-men. the x-men were busy this was during the fatal attractions series with the x-men. Any way spidey was eventually contacted by the x-force. cable told spidey to hold him untill they could make it. Spidey fought juggernaut for two days. day and night. He wore juggernaut down to where he was so fatigued he could barely walk. X-force made it to new york at this time. Stryfe had strong man tear his helmet off. He did so. Stryfe then began to penetrate his mind, however this gave juggs a physical jolt. He came to and decimated the entire x-force(excluding cable) Spidey then cleaned up the job. He wore juggs down again until Stryfe regained his compsure and pierced juggs mind with a psyonic blast.

The second time when spidey did incase juggernaut in cement was when the X-force was intrested in juggernaut on key information on the where abouts of magneto's apprentice Exodus. Jugger naut was in new york stalking his brother Xavier, however he was given bad information and xavier was no longer in new york, so he got mad. Real mad and starting causing a ruckus in the city. You can guess what happens next

Juggernaut can manifest a force field. The longer he keeps it up the more energy he loses. I know Hulk beat juggs 3 times. well one was a draw. But this was before Juggernaut got his new suit fully covering his body, and before he fused with the crystal. However even if they did meet now it wouldnt be the same seeing how the hulk is no longer bruce banner. ThE hulk now is intelligent. He is intelligent when he is and is not the hulk. He is stronger than bruce banner as the hulk, but bruce banner hulk was more powerfull because the madder he got the stronger he got. The new hulk does not hold this ability. So we will never know who would actually win, because even though hulk beat juggs. that was before juggs became the ever powerfull villan we know now.

ruby
i dont know the hell that marvel book is but its wrong!! id like to see colloses stand up to one of the eternals of titan. or galactucus!!
same with juggernaut

hulk is dum , but need i remind you hes also a scientist!

but juggernout wears armour and hulk wears shorts

and also doesnt that hat protect him from telepathy

think about all these factors and youll relise that at the result will be


a tattered hulk lying on the floor with a pear of riped shorts and juggds standing victourios>!!

Metroplex
Juggernaut for sure. Juggernaut is invincible. Not even adamantium can scratch him. The only way that he ever was defeated was when his helmet was removed and a telepath messed with his mind.

supershane
juggernaut for sure

ragesRemorse
Hulk beat him two tiems in the past, but of course that was before he had his suit update. I remember for a while every time juggernaut had an appearance, he always had a huge dint in the back of his armour, and that was from when apoc punched him to show him who was the master. LOL juggernaut never questioned apoc again lol

*TaBY_bOOmer!
I'd have to agree withBlind-Enemy. I go for hulk!! Strog person! Buf!

Linkalicious
How is Juggernaut going to stand a chance against the Hulk? Hulk just needs to keep getting pissed. I saw him lift up a mountain in the Infinity Wars. A freakin mountain! Juggernaut is just some punk with a curse. This poll should have been:

Drax the Destroyer (with Power infinity crystal) vs Hulk

And that would be a better fight, except I'm pretty sure Drax has energy projection abilities

Spawnie
Do u ppl actually read all the rants? I guess not, cuz many ppl here keep just repeating the same thing all over again. After reading Remorses' rant I have absolutely nothing more to read. I vote for the HULK, and that is for the first Hulk Bruce banner and for the new Hulk.

Juggy can kiss my butt. I don't care what he has on, he is still a stupid character with lots of power. If spidey wore him off, then there is no point in having all that power. If he can't catch Spidey then he should just quit the day job. Don't think I undermine Spidey.

I hope some of u watched Fist of the North Star. There is a quote from that anime I would like to share with u guys.

"Power without perception is nothing" said Ken's father before he got killed by his own son Raul.

ruby
please vote on my new pole "who is the supreme marvel character ever?"

its on the "who do think is the most powerfull character ever?" one

srandle317
Why are you saying outsmart, as if the hulk uses strategy while fighting.If you ask me the hulk is, if not the most, primitive minded person in Marvel Comics. I mean who has to be constantly reminded that they are your friends and they love you.

srandle317
What do you mean he'd just get worn down. I'm not going to lie this is a pretty deadly match, but the juggernaut is indestructable, immune to disease,telepathy,and scratches,bruises and bleeding, never has to eat, and most of the time being immune to getting tired if at all. His frustration and irritability is what gets to him most in battles which causes him to flee, but nuh uh, no one has ever defeated the juggernaut, but slow him down.Believe me he 's has his new armor suit.Look up the definition of juggernaut in a dictionary sees what it says. laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Spawnie
We're talking about a Marvel character here not about dictionary definitions. Juggy was defeated, and he got himself a better suit, so scratch that never been defeated thing. The Hulk needs just to make the Juggy look like he can't catch him. When Juggy gets frustrated he makes move mistakes. I said it he can have all the power he wants but he has no real IQ to develop it the right way.

USAgent
Id go with the hulk on this one because of the Brains factor. Juggie has never been the brightest star in the sky, and even though his armor is practicly impervious to harm, Ol Bruce would figure out a way to put a kink in it!

hyper_megaman
juggernaut is indestructable to nearly all forces, but not all.

taken that hulk cannot injure him, at most it'll just be the hulk tossing juggernaut around. like a guy playing with a toy that never breaks. that's all. hulk will just get angrier and angrier and juggernaut will just be rendered helpless but will not get injured.

so either
1) hulk tosses juggernaut to some place where even indestructability won't save him(e.g. outer space where he can't breathe and the vaccuum will ultimately make him explode)
or
2) hulk gets worn down in needing food/rest and stops the fight.

it's nearly impossible to decide who wins
so just leave it as it is

Spawnie
Good point. I just wanna ask about the toss in space thing. I read somewhere that Jaggy can make a forcefiled arround himself, can he survive in space for a while with that?

Sorry if it sounds stupid but I just wanna know the extent of his powers.

Linkalicious
I've been outta the comic scene for a couple of years now. What's Juggy's new suit look like? Does someone know where I can get a look or maybe someone might have a pick that they could post. I'll look on the internet, but old school juggy woulda be ripped to shreds by the hulk.

Asian Hulk
What do you think about the Hulk smashing the villain Juggernaut?Juggernaut is vigilante you know!!!

Daywalker
I think Hulk would twist Juggernaut's helmet off like a beer cap and commence to beating the crap out of him.

HULK would win

kalantiaw
hulk all the way... he can out run, out last, out wit juggy in a heart beat... and hulk gets bigger and more powerful when he gets madder... all juggy needs to do is hit hulks nuts accidentaly, then it's all over laughing ... hulk would pound him to the ground... and i think the question is who would win, not who will die in this battle...

boxofdeath
juggernaut vs. hulk. juggernaut vs. hulk. thats all i ever hear from you people! how about you give some credit where is due. theres a certain spinach yeilding sailor who could wipe the floor with both of those spares. yes, i am talking about popeye! have you ever seen him lose a fight??? i didnt think so. i dont know about everybody else, but i would like to see him fight lennox lewis for the championship on nw year's eve in las vegas! once he works himself up into one of those spinach induced frenzies, its chinatown. i would pay $1,000,000 to see that fight. i'm excited just talking about it!!!

Spawnie
Lol, funny very funny.

Marvel Master
Juggernaut

the_hulk_79
the hulk would win one he is smart because he is scients and when he gets angier he gets madder
go to http://groups.msn.com/TheGreenHulk

the_hulk_79
the hulk would win because has more experience i say and the hulk as amazing powers like...Unlimited Strength

Leaping/Jumping Ability
Accelerated Healing
Resistance to Mind Control
Unusual Mental Abilities
High Resistance/High Durability
which would help him with his exp evil face

the_hulk_79
not true
SIMPLE STUPIDITY:"The Juggernaut can be killed by ripping the gem of Cyttorak from his chest." and the hulk is strong enough to rip it considering that the hulk can lift more than juggernaut. hulk 100 tons juggernaut 90 tons

the_hulk_79
hulk is amzing

the_hulk_79
hulk rules

the_hulk_79
in metal which cheap i i'm goin with the marvel encyclpedia hulk wins

venomfan
hulk did not always win, hiss as was lucky the first time juggys helmet fell off then the X MEN not hulk stopped him,oh yeah did ya read the part where hulk got tired a hit juggy and then got pimp slapped and dang near got his neck broke,then it took hulk as WAR to beat,juggy hulk is cool but juggy is a unstoppable force and starts off stronger than hulk marvels own page used to agree juggy 10 green hulk was a 9,hell he beat venoms as and venoms the greatest(to me anyway).

Linkalicious
where did you read that Juggy is stronger than the Hulk. The full extent of Hulks strength has never been measured because it's incalculable. He just gets madder and madder until he's stong enough to get the job done.

Katt
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
juggernaut can be killed thats a fact. He gets his power from the m'kraan crystal.


Ehm, Last i rememberd his powers can from the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak.

But please correct me if i'm wrong

Jade_Eyes
The point is

"The full extent of Hulks strength has never been measured because it's incalculable. He just gets madder and madder until he's stong enough to get the job done."

Unless you just take him out right away you'll just keep pissing him off.
Whats Jugs power rating, monstrous?

Jade_Eyes
The real question is HULK versus Doomsday

Linkalicious
If Jugs power rating is monsterous...then the Hulk's is just as Monsterous if not more monsterous... And Hulk whoops Doomsday because Marvel strength pwns DC strength

Jade_Eyes
Uh thanks for the unbiased info link. lol

I used to play marvel unverse RPG a long time ago. If I remember correctly Hulk would go from Monstrous to Unearthly something like that.

Didnt Superdude fight Hulk in some crossover?

the_hulk_79
hulk would win

SuperNova
The hulk would eventually run out of energy from all his transformations, Hed keep getting madder and madder and still wouldnt be able to hurt juggy so hed keep getting madder and eventually he would hurt himself because out of food+sleep=No more matter for muscle making=Dead.

Linkalicious
Can someone tell me which comic # and in which series the Juggernaut becomes all powerful? I've ALWAYS been under the impression that the Juggernaut could be fatigued, could be killed, and was not invincible. And ahead of time, sorry i don't still collect comics so i'm not up on the new addons like Juggy's invincibillity or Venom enhancement to his symbiote enabling him to lift 50 tons. (or so people say)

fizzy
Juggernaut vs the hulk is a very tough one it could go either way the only way juggernaut has been ever defeated not even that just slowed down is thorugh telepathy when his helmet was removed he is just raw strength but hulk has limitless strength and gets stronger the maddder he becomes but can die i dunno if there was a fight between them either of them could win neither really have any weaknesses i say 50/50

Never
Transformations? Hulk does not increase in size as he gets angrier - that was a cinematic incongruity. Juggernaut is far from invulnerable - recall that Onslaught backhanded him from Canada to Xavier Mansion in New York and how afraid he was of him? The same Onslaught who had his armor cracked open from a Hulk punch when the combined might of the earth's superheroes could not put a dent in his armor. Now who is stronger? roll eyes (sarcastic)



Yes and no...he can survive indefinitely without food, water, or oxygen.

That would be one LONG, drawn out fight...and I would take Hulk.

SuperNova
Im sorry, I still think the Hulk has to run on energy like every other Un-immortal thing, The hulk would tire of trying to penetrate juggernauts magic armor, and then Jugg would take the final hit. Though I do think The hulk and Juggernaut would be a good series, were they team up, Only, it would have to be the Hulk Variation where he has Banners intelligence... lol.

Sc0rchy
i'd hafta say hulk... unless he's too mad to figure out that all he has to do is rip the helmet off

venomfan
no it was a bullsh!t bio, i have asked guys in touch with marvel to update his stregth becuase of the situations regarding :the madness and :ubsorbing the carnage symbiote. im pretty sure its more like 15-20 ton strength inhancement but when i find out ill let you kno. go to www.spiderfan.com best spiderman website in the world

LeAtHerRFace
Juggernaut would w00p The Hulks ass. Juggernaut is stronger and smarter. Also, the Hulk got his ass kicked in some Wolverine Comic. When he vrsed Juggernaut he won again but it took more time. Besides if wolverine was one of the 4 horsemen of Apacolypes, then he should be a ****n tough opponent. And he had a pretty hard time with Jugg. So that means Jugg would beat the living $hit outta The Puny Green Hulk.

Never
LoL, how long have you been reading comic books, Leatherface?

Juggernaut is SMARTER than the Hulk? Let me drop off a little gem for you:

The Professor (from http://www.incrediblehulk.com/professor.html )

First Appearance:The Incredible Hulk #377

Identity Basis: This is the idealized version of Bruce where he has all the strength of the Savage Hulk and the intelligence of Bruce Banner but none of the emotional baggage, awkwardness or shyness.

Strength: This incarnation can lift >>>>>>>over 100 tons.<<<<<<<

Intelligence: >>>>>>>>>>>>Genius<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Transformation: This version does not transform

In case you missed it...notice the arrows pointing to the term "genius?" Notice erm that he starts at OVER 100 tons, and we all do know that The Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier; in addition, he "for all practical purposes has no limit to the strength he can reach."

Again, show me where Juggernaut EVER lifted 150 billion tons...and Hulk was not even THAT angry when he did.

*sigh*

venomfan
well i know hulk gets stronger than juggy. but marvels stats had green hulk at 9 grey at 8, and juggy at 10. they got rid of hulks stats shortly after his movie came out. so juggys only chance would be to kill hulk quickly but this probably wont happen. im not sayin hulk would kick his ass juggy still has invincebility and the whole unsoppable thing. its basically a good fight. all there fights were good reads

hyper_megaman
if you're talking about scientific mass measurements, i don't think gamma radiation would cause an increase in mass, neither do i think a crystal can create an armour on a person and increase his strength..

come on, this is about comics, let's be realistic.. how many times have u actually seen hulk need food just because he's transformed for too long?

hyper_megaman
when a thing is sent flying it doesn't mean it's not unstoppable...
you can toss a diamond easily but you can't break it bare handed can u?

anyway juggernaut IS invincible and unstoppable because the gem powers him so, and onslaught was able to remove that gem.
note: juggnaut is indestructable and unstoppable, but no one ever said the gem couldn't be taken off and no one said marko couldn't be killed.

dubefan
alright hulk would win because all he would have to do is continue to get madder and bigger than rip juggernauts helmet off and crush juggernauts head because as we all know juggernaut drives all his power from his helmet, kinda sad acctually, so yes hate to let you down supernova but juggernaut or juggy as u called him would be a greasy stain on the pavement Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

Jade_Eyes
Hulk Wins! unless marko thinks to use gas or somthing on him.

The real question is HULK versus Doomsday?

venomfan
doomsday blows, hulk would eat him alive

Linkalicious
i agree

venomfan
id rather see hulk vs violator, it would be short and funny as hell

dubefan
id like to see the hulk vs colossus or apocolypse

Never
Incorrect.

LeAtHerRFace
Hulk wud get smashed by Apacolypes and Colossus.

the_hulk_79
http://groups.msn.com/-MarvelChat-/homepage.msnw goto it an join

monaroCountry
Look in "the incredible hulk" no. 456 and 457 for hulk versus juggernaut. 456 shows hulk getting choked by apocalype it also shows hulk getting fully unleashed and somehow had some sort of energy boost thus becoming the horseman "war". 457 shows hulk getting pushed by juggernaught and also juggernaught getting stopped by hulk. All these jugs vs hulk was just apocalypse testing for the coming of the celestials.

I would go with jugs in normal battles, even with enhanced abilities hulk had trouble with jugs. However neither hulk not jugs are unstoppable or immovable.

The only thing that TRUELY stopped both the juggernaught and the hulk have been onslaught (hulks ripping of onslaughts armour was not a show of strenght on hulks part, it however released onslught from a physical body thus making him more powerful).

monaroCountry
Where did you get this stupid idea? Look in xmen unlimited number 12 (sep 1996) where onslaught physically rips the gem out of juggernaut. The cyttorak gem contains another reality (cyttorak), the energies contained within this reality WAS chanelled to juggernaut by the GOD cyttorak, however when jugsy destroyed Cyttorak the power was completely his i.e. he was no longer the vessel for the power but was the power.

When hulk was meant to smash onslaughts armour, beacue of it onslaught was able to evolve. This type of evolution was not an exception, in "the uncanny xmen" number 336 xavier was rescued by thor (by smashing through onslaught) this too was planned. Onslaught needed to get rid of xavier, since xavier blunted or held back onslaughts full potential

monaroCountry
Everyone was afraid of onslaught from the xmen, fantastic4, avengers, apocalypse, xfactor, xman, uatu etc. I would go so far as say that onslaught was far more powerful and dangerous than the celestials (celestials held franklin richards as equal whereas onslaught never did). Challenging the phonix and winning is not an easy thing, onslaught made this look like childs play, same as how he was able to casually separate kain and the ruby or separate hulk from bruce.

monaroCountry
Please everyone try to provide references or proof to back up your arguements. Dont just go on about unlimited power bla bla blah.

SuperDarryl
I would have to say Juggernaut would probably get killed of they were battling to the death. Reason being, Incredible Hulk #457. Hulk has a fight with Juggy and kicks the snot out of him and right when The hulk is about to behead Juggernaut, the absorbing man comes out of nowhere and tackles the Hulk saving Jug heads life. So you have to realize if the absorbing man didn't save Juggy from getting beheaded then we wouldn't be having this convo now would we? Suprise Juggy fans Hulk rocks, Hulk wins.
eek! mad

SuperDarryl
Reference I got reference points. Hulk beats Jug head sensless. Theirs your reference point.

Red Superfly
Although Hulk would have trouble with Juggernaught - it's pretty clear Hulk would win.

I'm gonna use my old Onslaught arguement again. You see, Juggernaut got whupped by Onslaught - but Hulk cracked Onslaughts shell. I have the comics this happens in.

Therefore, seeing as Hulk > Physical Onslaught > Juggy, I'd have to go out on a limb and say if Hulk and Juggy were to at it again - Juggy would get beaten, AGAIN!

JuggernautFan
well then, i'm going to use my hulk python aurgument. hulk was once knocked out by a regular python. no upgrades no nothing, just a regular python. plus we must not foget that onslaught was a telepath, which happens to be juggernauts weakness. hulk cannot be telepathically assaulted the same way juggernaut can.

JuggernautFan
also remember, even if war had beheaded juggernaut it wouldnt have killed him. you have to completely sever him from his magics to kill him. take a look.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/vs_DSpayre.html

2nd picture down. thank you and have a nice day.

monaroCountry
Forgetting the fact that apocalypse made hulk stronger, faster etc when hulk became the horseman WAR. From the Incredible hulk number 457 apocalypse gave hulk a power boost "the powers of the celestials supercedes all but my own.......the juggernaught seemed most puissant. He seemed a valuable test of celestial might". As a result hulk was able to defeate crusher creel far easier than normal, however still had trouble with jugs.

monaroCountry
I ask you, what happend when onslaughts shell got cracked? = he evolved into a being of pure energy immune to any physical attack. Hulk was used by onslaught, same as how onslught used thor to get rid of prof X.

who?-kid
The Hulk all the way stick out tongue Juggie is a lousy fighter. He depends way too much on his protective shield and his strength, but using tactics isn't his strongest point (granted, mostly he doesn't need to uses strategies, he just punches everybody away).

In an old comic, Thor fought Juggernaut and managed to bring down the protective shield that surrounds Juggernaut, and Juggernaut didn't know what was happening to him, he got thrashed so hard he didn't know where he was standing. Luckily for him his forcefield came back in time to save his ass.

OK, I exaggerate a bit, but I just want to point out that he relies way too much on his strength and his forcefield, and not on his fighting skills !! Any Hulk, the grey one, the mindless one, you name it, is a better fighter and at least as strong - ok, the grey one isn't as strong stick out tongue

And unstoppable certainly does not mean invincible.

JuggernautFan
Juggernaut IS immune without his forcefield. thor negated most of the mystical energy that cain was recieving. hence, that made him vulnerable. but juggernaut more often than not, has NOT used his force field. the field extends to about a foot away from his body. thors hammer hulks fist wolverines claws usually all come into contact with juggernauts body and just bounce off. so your theory about using his "field" too much is wrong. hulk is the better fight (supposedly since in all thier fights they seem to do the same thing) but he could never overcome his invulnerability. no matter how strong he becomes.

Red Superfly
All good points I think here.

OK, I have to admit I like it when a fight such as Juggernaught and Hulk can be argued with.

It's a tough call and I guess none of us can truly answer it, because we are all after all speaking from our own biases and knowledge (or lack thereof).

Hulk and Juggy are different and both deserve to call themselves equal to each other.

I used to think Hulk would win in everything. He'd beat most Marvel characters senseless, but not Juggy.

Hulk has never killed Juggy, Juggy hasn't really been stopped. So far it's still debatable

JuggernautFan
lol, yea. i agree. i wish they would come out with a book, like the death of superman. that would end this dispute once and for all. i'd buy 20 copies. well that would be a waste of money. i'd probably buy just 1.

SuperDarryl
dude I've seen a Incredible Mindless Hulk comic book when Hulk fought Juggernaut and was kicking his butt. Juggernaut got his helmet ripped off and Hulk just walked away. But we all know that If Hulk would have began punching Juggy in the cranium then that would be it. I mean if Hulk can crack onslaughts armor, he can definitly kill off Juggernaut with no helmet.

JuggernautFan
ok, you mean the comic where hulk hit juggernaut and juggernaut simply kicked him to the ground and said hulk was getting weaker, while juggernaut was getting stronger. i get what you are saying. yea. juggernaut's helmet only protects him from psionics. not physical force. his body is completely indestructable without it.

JuggernautFan
you have seen the comic, while i own it. please.

SuperDarryl
Look I'll say that Juggy and Hulk are a equal in strengths and that the fight will end in a draw. hulk has beat Juggy a few times, and Juggy has beat hulk a few times. They are balanced.

JuggernautFan
exactly my thoughts. that's why i wish though, that they would make a book about it. not the usual 2 page fights. i would really like to know who is the better half of the 2. no questions asked. wouldn't you?

FrothByte
Although juggernaut is arguably the more indestructible of the two, hulk is definitely stronger. Juggy will definitely give hulk a beating, since he doesn't get tired and all. But juggy's strength is just that, it remains as is while hulk's strength can increase with his anger. so eventually i think the hulk would grow mad enuf(and strong enuf) to beat juggy.

JuggernautFan
well, juggernaut's strength usually dwarfs hulks. hulk has to be sufficiently rage induced to match it. it wouldn't matter how strong hulk was, he could never physically hurt juggernaut. even if he reached a 150 billion ton strength level. even when he was upgraded to "war" he still had trouble. doesn't say much for a normal hulk. savage or not. infact i think it would be the genious versions that would have a better chance against juggernaut.

SuperDarryl
I guess who ever gets in the first blow is gonna win!

SuperDarryl
Beause if The hulk gets in the first blow, Juggy is gonna punch him back with full force and make him angrier, and so on and son, until the hulk flattens Juggy with a super-Hulk-enraged-anger-ground breaking shot.

SuperDarryl
On the other hand Juggy could get in the first blow and knock Hulk out although he's never done it. It would be a hell of a punch to knock the hulk unconcious with one blow. A matter afact I don't think anyone has ever done that. huh

JuggernautFan
i doubt anybody could ever put hulk down with 1 punch. let's not get rediculous. nor do i think the first punch would dictate the outcome of the fight.

JuggernautFan
but hulk has been knocked out by physical force, glad you brought this up. where juggernaut never has (before onslaught, otherwise known as true juggernaut).

FrothByte
are we on the same planet? juggernaut's strength dwarfs's the hulk? maybe his invulnerability yes but not his strength. plain physical strength though, thor and hulk are both juggy's superior.

JuggernautFan
ummm ok, considering hulk has to be rage induced to fight thing where as juggernaut simply knocks him out without a fight. considering hulk has never truely matched juggernaut strength for strength except in his upgraded for War hulk. considering thor has never won a battle except when he negated the very energy that makes cain marko the juggernaut. i already can tell you don't have the issues. so yes, until sufficiently rage induced juggernaut's strength does dwarf hulks. it has to be greater than hulks at base levels or they wouldn't even claim that it rivals hulks. hulks has to increase to match or over take juggernaut it's simple if you think about it.

JuggernautFan
you also included thor, i have no idea why. consider this. thor with the avengers, also quick silver, scarlet witch, and hercules couldn't defeat the exemplars. each of the exemplars were defeated by juggernaut. rather easily at that. the good guys out numbered the bad guys yet they still lost. but juggernaut held his own. explain that one.

JuggernautFan
infact i just went and counted. 13 avengers spiderman and all included vs. 7 exemplars. they almost doubled the exemplars in numbers and were defeated. ha ha ha.

FrothByte
Basing on your chose of words (dwarfs?) I can already tell you're too much of a juggernaut fanboy. you can argue that juggernaut MAYBE stronger than the hulk, but he certainly does not dwarf hulk's strength. If he dwarfed both hulk's and thor's strength then he should have been able to mop the floor with them (like he did with venom). but that did not happen, especially with the hulk. so do not tell me that he dwarfs the hulk.

JuggernautFan
understood. my wording clashed with your liking. juggernaut's base strength is higher than either of them in my opinion though. hopefully you will like how i have worded it. even if you dont' agree you have no proof in debunking what i say.

Wynndar
Originally posted by FrothByte
Basing on your chose of words (dwarfs?) I can already tell you're too much of a juggernaut fanboy.

Agreed...Hulk is stronger than Juggs even a his base strength (except for grey hulk) the one time Jugy beat Hulk ( in the rainforest) it was the element of surprise that got him...otherwise there would be no story to write about...where the Hulk raped both juggy and the Avengers...everytime hulk has fought Juggy he won...even back in the seventies...i wasnt born at the time, but i own the issue and the Rhino did a better job in his first appearance against the Hulk...the Hulk has performed countless more impressive feats of strength....Jugs performs feats of endurance and durability...when was the last time the hulk wasnt strong enough to do something?...one time he said he would have to get a lot madder to fight THE SHAPER OF WORLDS, maybe in the top 5 most powerful characters in the marvel universe...

Wynndar
another thing...stop bringing up War Hulk....it was poorly written...an excuse to show apoc and hulk in the same issue...being War, the Hulk had no improvements in strength....however, he was brainwashed and able to channel his energy through a sword...if War Hulk was a different character, can anyone tell me when did he stop being WAR?...he tore out some implants and jumped away...r u telling me archangel or Caliban can tear out some implants and resort to their old selves?...no...the only difference in the Hulk and War is their personalities...apoc did not increase his strength...just made him meaner...Apoc is very smart...his real intentions were to attack the NWO...using the sword he knew Jugs and Absorbing man would recover...he planed for the contigency, like something Doctor Doom would do....Any time Hulk is green he can beat Juggy...the only Hulk with further increased strength is Mindless Hulk...he would beat juggy, demonstrated by his fight with onslought...r u familiar with Dark Hulk...he is far stronger than any hulk manifestation, juggy would be no match.

JuggernautFan
considering that even rhino was downed in 2 punches by a weakened juggernaut i'd have to say you were wrong. why if hulk is stronger, does marvel state that juggernaut's strength rivals his??? why would they say that if clearly hulk would be at a base level strength higher than juggernaut?? juggernaut has leveled a sky scraper with a single punch. downed thing and rhino rather quickly, both proving 2 be hulks equal for a while. the 4 times that hulk and juggernaut met, hulk 172, no victor, battle too short and indecisive. i dunno how you get hulk beats him out of that. hulk 402, juggernaut in street clothes sends "smart hulk" flying through the rain forest. on the first panel. hulk wondered who he was. part of the way through the issue he does start fighting back. but it's too late. red skull literally has to order juggernaut to stop fighting, so he doesn't kill him. hulk 404, hulk hits juggernaut twice (removing his helmet coincidentally) and breaks free from his mind control. a phsicic backlash knocks juggernaut unconscious. and again in hulk 457 the battle. hulk is upgraded by celestial tech, which allows him to harness energy from 2 universes. main stream marvel and the heroes reborn. upgraded in everyway, simply by thinking it could send an unlimited supply of energy to any part of his body, even to his sword. he still had trouble with juggernaut in this upgraded form. which is by far the most POWERFUL version of hulk. i'd say juggernaut's base strength stands higher than hulks. so i guess you are wrong about hulk winning every fight. because 1, he didn't defeat juggernaut in 172, jean grey and xavier did. in 402 juggernaut soundly thrashed hulk. in 404, if he hadn't been mind controlled by metallo, juggernaut would have never been rendered unconscious. and in 457, had he not been upgraded in every way, he wouldn't have fared as good as he did. so please tell me how u get hulk winning every time.

Wynndar
"and breaks free from his mind control. a psionis backlash knocks juggernaut unconscious"..."in 404, if he hadn't been mind controlled by metallo, juggernaut would have never been rendered unconscious."...Juggy knocked out by some backlash...so does that mean a P*ssy like metallo was involved in juggy's defeat?....doesnt sound too impressive...i will stand by my comments about war hulk, im not going to repeat myself, his strength was not upgraded, if it was, then why wasnt it permanent, u did not respond to my comments at all (as usual)....u r using too much of ur imagination and too much rhetoric to build up Juggy, just talk about the facts juggefan be objective...if u dont see a pattern of the Hulk beating juggernaut, then u r being bias..."Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
-MLK

SuperDarryl
This is what really happened.
The Incredible Hulk #404: The Hulk slaps his hands together and creates a shock wave that blows the Avengers back. The Juggernaut is just about to go into them more when the Red Skull radios him and tells him to give the Avengers an option to surrender and leave. The Juggernaut, against his better judgement, gives the Avengers the option but when they refuse, the Juggernaut orders the Hulk on them. The Hulk, in his mind, sees the Juggernaut as his father and the Avengers as different ages of Bruce Banner. They continue to fight the Avengers as a team until the Juggernaut tells the Hulk he is dong a great job. That praise jolts the Hulk's mind for a second. Then some of the remaining Avengers attack again and knock the Hulk down for a second. The Juggernaut gives his hand out to the Hulk and says that nothing can stop them if they stick together. The Hulk, his mind going back to when his father killed his mother, starts to crack a little bit. The Juggernaut just grabs the Hulk and throws him towards the Avengers. The Hulk, about to kill Crystal, hears the Juggernaut saying that he is the best. The Hulk, who is still seeing the Juggernaut as his father, finally cracks. The Hulk says that all those years, all he wanted was a little praise but all he gave was anger and being browbeat and now after all that time, he decides to give him praise. He punches the Juggernaut and hits his helmet off. The Hulk slowly starts to come out of it and knows that the Juggernaut is not his father and hits him. He screams to get out of his head. Mentallo tries to regain control but the Hulk rejects it and causes a massive psychic backlash that knocks everybody out, including the Juggernaut.

If Hulk can knock Juggernauts helmet off then have a huge psychic backlash and knock everyone out INCLUDING JUGGERNAUT! The why are you saying that Juggernaut is so freaking invincible, he got knocked out man, did you hear, her got his unstoppable ass knocked out. So stop saying that Juggernaut is stronger then the hulk, rivals Hulk in strength and The Hulk is beneath him. Because obviously The hulk had enough HULK RAGE, to overpower JUGGERNAUT and knock him unconcious. So just relax Juggyfan smokin'

norrin radd
it would be a great fight but in the end hulk would be the winner, i believe everything i could say about this fight has already been said.

SuperDarryl
I'am on a roll, heres another comic, I believe it is Hulk war about to kill Juggernaut.


The Incredible Hulk #457: The Juggernaut comes crashing down at the Hulk, dressed as War under Apocalypse's control, and hits him and keeps pushing him backwards. Until the Hulk manages to stop the Juggernaut from pushing him any further, then a coil from the Hulk's armor snakes out and wraps around the Juggernaut's leg. The Hulk throws him around and then sends him flying away. The Juggernaut lands in a mosque and as the Hulk comes leaping down onto him, the Juggernaut hits him and sends him flying across the street. The Juggernaut and Hulk continue to fight until the Hulk finally beats the Juggernaut down. The Hulk takes his sword and flips the Juggernaut's helmet off. He's about to behead the Juggernaut when the Absorbing Man comes crashing down on him. After the Hulk accidently sends Rick Jones flying into a brick wall and leaps away from the pain, the Juggernaut grabs his helmet. He and the Absorbing Man take the Hulk's sword which he left behind and agree to take Rick Jones and Janis to a hospital and then take the sword back to the New World Order.

This scenario Hulk had the opportunity to kill Juggernaut for good. But the writers didn't kill him to keep him around for jug fans like you!

JuggernautFan
well actually juggernaut is immortal. he should have died several times in the past, but survived. even being beheaded wouldn't have stopped him. so just because hulk say's he would have killed him, doesn't mean he would have been able too. also, it should be stated that war did not stop juggernaut with physical force. only negated the mystical energy with "extra dimensional" energy that he was drawing which manifested around him and juggernaut.

JuggernautFan
you make it sound like hulks power was what knocked juggernaut out in incredible hulk 404. it wasn't. it was the backlash that did it. not hulks punches. yes juggernaut was knocked out, but again it was by his one weakenss. psionics. not hulks power. so hulk didn't over power him. he just broke free of his mind control. which had nothing to do with juggernaut in the first place. if you look in any marvel handbook, they directly compare juggernaut's strength to hulks by name. they say he does RIVAL hulk. like i have already stated, had hulk not been mind controlled in 404 he would have never been able to knock juggernaut out.

JuggernautFan
as for hulk not being upgraded by the celestial tech?????????? it allowed him to harness the power from both universes. it allowed him with a though to send energy from both universes to any part of his body includint the sword. i have already addressed this issue. that is also how he overloaded absorbing man. it DID upgrade his strength. anybody who say's otherwise has obviously not read the mni series. this is all here-say information. the celestial tech DID upgrade WAR. just like it upgraded wolverine. just like it upgrade every other horseman of apocalypse. man, get yur facts straight. it doesn't matter if it was metallo, or some 7 year old kid down the street. if juggernaut is not wearing his helmet, his is just as susceptable to psionics as you and i. so yea, metallo did have something to do with juggernauts defeat. but it was still by his one weakness.

Wynndar
"only negated the mystical energy with "extra dimensional" energy that he was drawing which manifested around him and juggernaut."...am I missing something...does it explain this is some other issue...all i see is
the Hulk's Green aura. which he has lots of times when he is raging, over power Juggernaut's field...Juggy is not immortal, he has never had his head cut off...having his body stripped down to the bone by D'spayre is not cutting off the head...it has been demonstrated that juggernaut can be put down my neural disruption, so his primary nervous system is vulnerable...i dont know a better way to kill him than cutting of his head...oh and as far as another example of Juggy being scared...it mentions he is scared after he is stopped by War...again showing that whenever he might be up against a real challenge, he turns into a coward....do u still not see the pattern that the Hulk is above Juggy?

JuggernautFan
no he's not above juggy. he wasn't scared just dumbfounded. it was dimensional energy that haulted him. please read 450-457, not just 457. dr. strange, and apocalypse were both drawn to the disruption of power. that is the whole purpose behind apocalypse wanting a "non mutant", in the first place. he wanted to create something powerful enough to battle the celestials. he made hulk draw power from both universes. the aura was extra dimensional, hulk has since lost that "aura" so explain that one. juggernaut once challenged the likes of eternity to a fight. i doubt he's scared. juggernaut is susceptable to psionics yes, that is how you drop him. but physically severing his body isn't going to kill him. he is IMMORTAL so long as he's connected to the ruby's power.

Never
Depends on which incarnation of the Hulk. The Professor would stomp Juggernaut, and possesses Banner's genius intellect.



WHAT!!!?? Show me where Juggernaut ever lifted anything remotely close to 50 billion tons? Yes Hulk can knock Juggernaut out. Superman is referenced as being invulnerable and Shazam knocked him the hell out. Because you can absorb punishment does not mean you are immune to it. Colossus knocked Juggernaut on his ass.

50 billion and he was not even raving mad, and he was SAVAGE Hulk, not Mindless.

LoL @ Juggernaut or Colossus being stronger than The Hulk. Jabberwocky.



Yeah right.



Is this more conjecture on your behalf or has this been stated somwhere?

JuggernautFan
first, proffessor hulk is the one that got stomped by juggernaut. savage hulk was also put on his ass in hulk 172, while juggernaut clearly stated his attacks were getting weaker, yet his were getting STRONGER. second colossus has never defeated juggernaut. twice juggernaut with a single punch has knocked colossus unconscious. so much for putting him on his ass. hulk didn't lift the 50 billion tons it was simply braced. a battle he was losing until reed richards talked trash to him to make him angry. being beheaded wouldn't have killed him, i and marvel have both stated several times that juggernaut is immortal. things that would have killed hulk, killed thor, killed hercules simply did not kill juggernaut. he is immortal. his body has been tormented far beyond anything the others can take. he IS immortal. while superman is extremely powerful and durable, he isn't completely physically invulnerable. juggernatu IS. he cannot sustain injury nor can he be pierced by physical means. you are aurgueing with FACTS. colossus in main stream marvel wasn't as powerful as the top dogs because he didn't even reach maturity yet. in the ultimate universe, it's a different story. he was stated at being in the 110 ton strength level, and took on thor and iron man simultaneously. both thor, and iron man have defeated hulk in the past. magneto even tried to pin him to the ground using magnetics, and failed to do so. colossus reaching maturity, is more durable, slightly stronger at base level, and is extremely capable of holding his own with hulk. atleast until hulk has sufficiently raged himself. so i think you need to address the issue differently. you say things like jabberwocky, when i present to you facts. yes juggernaut has had his body stripped in the past, and he does rival hulk's strength. if hulk was so much more powerful, why hasn't he laid waste to juggernaut yet?? they have met 4 times, and juggernaut is the only one with a sound victory, without being upgraded or depowered.

Never
Lost my entire response. *sigh*

Will start again.

Prefaced by saying that I am an aggressive debater and hope I do not come across as if I am attacking anyone. Not attacking YOU, only attacking what you write.

That being said...



Intellectually? Not on your life.



Hulk wrestled off his helmet and Juggernaut was on the ground. Professor X, Cyclops, and Marvel Girl interrupted and defeated Hulk. Where did you get that Hulk was "put on his ass?" And referencing an old, OLD battle? Writers are now much more creative. That is akin to my referencing the Iceman in Uncanny #141 when the one in recent years is much more powerful, much more versatile.



Never said he did.



Negative. In the bar that was an accumulation of punches. "And this is what I call my Sunday Punch!" And WAIT. Colossus was NOT unconscious. When Colossus is unconscious he reverts back to human form. You are incorrect. Second one, not sure about.



Did he move it upward one inch? Two inches? If he did, he LIFTED it. And "losing?" He was never losing, he was getting TIRED. He said he did not know how much longer he could hold it, I believe. Spiderman even commented. Reed talked a little trash and the strength that follows his adrenaline surge enabled him to maintain his position.

That being said, Juggernaut has NEVER been close to "bracing" 50 billion tons...and Thor is generally regarded as being right behind Hulk, not Juggernaut.

And pardon - it was 150 billion tons.



Where did Marvel state this? Where is your proof?



Conjecture and opinion.



Agree, somewhat.



Wrong.

"Besides giving him vast superhuman strength, the mystical energy of Cyttorak gives the Juggernaut an >>>>>>>>>extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury."

Extraordinary does not equal "IMMUNE."



Am aware that Ult Colosus was upgraded to Class 100. Where was he stated as being in Class 110 when Marvel always has used Class 100, and below that, in 10 ton increments?



Okay...? And Hulk stomped Thor's ass way more often. Will have to dig up Iron Man battles.



No, he is not slightly stronger at base level. More durable, agreed. Holding his own, yeah, until Hulk gets angry. Then it is lights out.



No it does not. It has been said that the upper limits of his strength are unknown, and it has been said that Hulk's is VIRTUALLY/POTENTIALLY limitless.



LoL @ "sound victory." Punching Hulk before he knew who Juggernaut was = "sound victory?" Notice you did not simply say "victory," because Hulk was handling Juggernaut's ass in #457. And I see no notice of Hulk STOPPING the "unstoppable" Juggernaut in the same issue.

"So: Nothing can stop the Juggernaut? Well here'er two things that can...my POWER...and your imminent beheading."

JuggernautFan
but i said the sound victory was against "the smart hulk". he did fight back, he was just wondering where he had seen him before. but still a sound victory on juggernaut's part. second i said at normal levels of power. hulk was only war at the end of 456, till the end of 457. that is NOT his normal level of power. so hulk has never defeated juggernaut with his own power. where as juggernaut has defeated hulk with his. but colossus was stated in ultimate universe as 110 tons. i have no idea why it was 110 and not 100. but it is true. the only reason he never reached that level in main stream marvel is because he didn't get to reach maturity before he died. second, thor and hulk, most battles are inconclusive. even in a direct test of strength for 1 hour, hulk couldn't over power thor. iron man vs hulk. iron man at the last moment tapped as deep into his armor as he could, using all his energy into 1 arm, and punchd hulk, knocking him unconscious. the same ironman that defeated hulk, and the same thor that stalemated hulk on several occasions simultaneously failed to defeat colossus. you said that "colossus put juggernaut on his ass". when??? as for reverting back to his human form, that's what it states in his bio, but it's not true. he was completely limp in one hand, storm in the other, yet he was still in armored form. even in 183, he was unconscious, nightcrawler and wolverine had to dig him from under the debris. he was unconscious. as for hulk bracing the mountain, he never lifted it in the first place it was dropped on them. you want a feat of strength from juggernaut, using his full potential he was litterally ripping holes in dimensional barriers with his fist. he was so emmensly strong that even dimensional barriers were not stopping his strength. when has Hulk EVER been that powerful???? as for war stopping juggernaut i already told you, it wasn't strength............................................................................

JuggernautFan
you want to pitt war hulk against juggernaut, atleast do it fair. the upgraded version of juggernaut that was in excess of 50 ft tall, whom was litterally tearing down dimensional barriers. how do you think he would have fared agains juggernaut then? well first, that was actually juggernaut using his full potential. which is obtainable should he learn how to use his power. second war, if he hadn't been tampered with by apocalypse wouldn't have been able to reach his state of power. i think that is a wager that even war hulk would have lost.

SuperDarryl
Causes Incredible Shockwaves
Deflects the Nightcrawler's Sonics
Destroys A Huge Asteroid
Destroys Onslaught's Armor
Destroys The High Evolutionary's Armor
Grasps An Energy Bubble
Hulk Is Power Incarnate
Alcohol Has No Effect On The Hulk
Had so much power he deafeated the absorbing man
Knocked Namor from Keywest to Miami
Lifted a 150 billion ton mountain
Jump into the atmosphere with on singal leap
Serve a nuke going off at point blank range
Survive the vacum of space with no problem

If enraged enough The hulk could knock Juggernaut unconcious! And with the
help of a few good heros kill him off annihilating his a**. Juggernaut us not
a God, or even God like he aint so tough. Hulk could take him and mangle his
a*** repeatedly!


unĚconĚscious ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-knshs)
adj.
Lacking awareness and the capacity for sensory perception; not conscious.
Temporarily lacking consciousness.
Occurring in the absence of conscious awareness or thought: unconscious resentment; unconscious fears.
Without conscious control; involuntary or unintended: an unconscious manneri

Your probably saying to yourself. The hulk could never do that, this is absurd. well your wrong
if The hulk could hold up a 150 billion ton mountaun then he could surely beat the
stuffing out of Juggernaut. Now, check this out.

In unlimited access #1- Wonderwoman manages to knock juggernaut unconcious? Now
how did that happen you must be reading quizativly. Well tuns out that Juggy's
helmet is dislodged and Wonderwoman punches juggernaut into a speeding mantis,
which knocks him unconcious. Now how in the heck could Juggernaut be knocked
unconcious if he's invulnerable to physical force, well obviously his is
vulnerable to physical force, and if that is the case then The hulk could
absolutly handle The Juggernaut with physical force and punch him in his shit
until he got KNOCKED THE F*** OUT!

If thats not enough to tell you how just uninvincible Juggernaut is....
Check out this encounter Juggernaut had with Onslaught! Now keep
in mind that the Hulk was strong enough to destroy Onslaughts armor.

Uncanny X-Men #322

STORY: "Dark Walk" (21 pages) A group of mutants commit a spree killing in a New York nightclub. Meanwhile, the Beast, Bishop and Psylocke are visiting Hoboken, New Jersey when the Juggernaut crashes into the town. Once they calm him down, he tells them that he has been punched all the way from Canada by Onslaught nearly killing Juggernaut, leaving him comatosed!

Hope this ends the futile posting of who Hulk vs. Juggernaut. Hulk wins, go Hulk. Cards are stacked to high
against Juggernaut. but Bring it own, I'll continue to bring your logical reasoning on why Juggernaut would
lose, I welcome it.

Check this out....
http://www.jaspong.force9.co.uk/jugg/jugg7.JPG

Also check this out....
http://aetherial.nu/photos/comics/uxm/Images/36.jpg

I'll look around for more picks of Juggernaut after the stuffing has been knocked out of him. Hulk and
Juggy are not equal sorry.. mad

JuggernautFan
i've already addressed the issue of onslaught a thousand and 1 times. first off. politics. that's right. politics. they needed somebody to lend credibility on a large scale to onslaught. somebody who had never been defeated via physical force. hulk, thor, hercules, ironman, all have been defeated like this. juggernaut however hasn't. again, dr.strange stated that somehow onslaught was severing cain marko from his bonds. Juggernaut would have been severely depleted of his power. thus making him vulnerable. just like thor did in one of his battles. also the first battle was not show, all we know is juggernaut landed, and has no memory of the fight except onslaught hit him. it could have been an implanted memory. but since it wasn't shown all we can do is speculate. second fight, onslaught pulls a gem out of his chest (which wasn't there in the first place) his phsychic myst manifested, the background changed = no longer in the mansion. it was psionics yet again. about dc crossovers. most were voted upon. another thing, wonderwoman once stated superman litterally had enough power to kill her with 1 punch. the same superman that couldn't even take venom, with spiderman's help. the same venom that was trashed by juggernaut. doesn't make much sense does it? another reason why crossovers shouldn't be use. batman being able to hit hard enough with human level strength to knock wind out of hulk??? now as far as i'm aware no human on earth is that strong. crossovers completely contradict themselves. let alone trying to use them as reliable information. like i said, even in the marvel directory they compare hulk and juggernaut's strength by NAME. they say that they rival each other as the strongest beings on the planet. which is false, considering that apocalypse is stronger than either or. so you are not only aurguing with me, but marvel's stat's also. i don't see what you dont' get about that. hulk has never survived a nuclear blast at point blank. but juggernaut however can survive it. if yur talking about durability, juggernaut wins no if's no and's and no but's. but hulk has never proven to be a superior to juggernaut in any incarnation when dealing with strength. except war, whom he couldn't get to that level of power by himself. even then the gap didn't seem all that great.

It seems that it is the Juggernaut's mind not his brain that is vulnerable. For example... if you layed Juggernaut's brain on a table and hit it with a hammer as hard as you could it would do nothing to it. You need the powers of a telepath like Professor X or simulated telepathic machinery like Nimrod to stop thought patters in his mind which enable him inert. The liquid in the portion of the ear which is the equilibrium can be shaken around causing dizziness but fixit is talking about the blood in the brain being shaken and that would cause one to faint but Juggernaut doesn't even need blood to survive he is sustained by magic. So through all my rabling and incoherent thoughts I'm trying to say that physical force cannot K.O. Juggernaut

that was from another discussion as to why juggernaut can be jarred stunned or dazed, but cannot be knocked out by physical force. you can upset the liquids in the inner ear (the equiliberium) but unless you are a telepath, and telepathically assault his mind (which onslaught is) you can never render him unconscious.

SuperDarryl
Dude whateve. I'am a Hulk fan, your a Juggernaut fan. You have evidence that says that Juggernaut is the biggest bad a**. I and plenty of other people posting here think that Hulk is the bad a*** in the situation. Juggernaut is a tough cookie I give you that, but my money is on The Hulk in a death match intelligent Hulk. I believe that their is a way that with the smarts of Bruce Banner and the brute stregth of The Incredible Hulk, Juggernaut would lose. I think their is a reason why they don't being the 2 together very often, because they would have to declare one or the other a winner. I just posted a few times when Juggernaut got the stuffing beat out of him, and I believe that Intelligent Hulk could take him, and I"am gonna stay with that.

Hulk's track record with Juggernaut has been pretty good. The matchs have had interuptions like always. I just believe that The Hulk is better then Juggernaut. Thats just my opnion. You think Juggy is better then Hulk, even though I"ve given proff that, Juggy has been rendered unconcious with physical force, and you won't agree, so the converstation is again stalemated, unless I can dig up more and more evidence to debate my point. Point being The Hulk can kick Juggernauts ass.

Thank you thats all for now. mad

norrin radd
man how can you still argue juggernaught fan, hulk is STRONGER, i wnat to post something but then i read what never wright, or superdarryl, they already said EVERYTHING, hulk WINS. and Juggernaught being imortal yeah sure he his keep beliving on that one.

FrothByte
if you do not believe in the proof that the comic issue of onslaught beating the crap out of juggernaut shows becoz you reason out to politics, then i suggest you don't use any other comic issues to back up your f*cking claims becoz they can also be regarded as polititcs!!!! juggernaut can survive a nuclear blast point blank? proof please... with the durability of juggernaut i have no questions, but if you want to compare the strength of juggy with that of the hulk please state a few facts of feats juggy did to demonstrate his strength. hulk lifted a 150 billion mountain, could you sight an example where juggy has demonstrated this amount of strength?

SuperDarryl
Ok this is a good point to argue. Juggernaut has a fight with the Thing protecting the Beyonder, now The Thing has gotten stomped by The Hulk plenty of times. But in this issue The Thing gets stomped by Juggernaut.

This issue The Thing fights with 99 supervillans and kicks all their buts except for one Juggernaut. The reason thing has kicked everyones butt if because he signed a pact with Mephisto to increase his strength 100 fold in exchange for his soul. And Thing agrees, so thing fights off 98 percent of the villans, then Juggernaut comes along, now when Juggy comes along, Now something interesting happens Mephisto sees that the Thing is going to kick Juggernauts butt, so what does he do he rips up the contract and has Thing degraded back to normal strength, now of couse Thing is stomped in 3 blows, knocked unconcious, but what if Mephisto did not rip the contract and let Juggy duke it out with Thing. I think Thing may have made a good match for Juggernaut with his strength increased 100 fold. Thats awesome. Now the Hulk basically can increase his stength 100 fold without any stupid contracts, so I think that The Hulk could beat the living day lights out of Juggernaut if he was enraged enough.

Juggernaut has been stopped before with physical force and can be stopped again with physical force. The Hulk would annihilate him, like I said knocking him into a coma, and Juggernaut has been in a coma before with the X-men examining him.

Another point I wanted to add on why Hulk would win in a toe-to-toe match up. smokin'

JuggernautFan
that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. when has hulk ever shown to increase his strength 100 fold? juggernaut has.......... just ask thor when he fought him in vol. 2, #17. hulk isn't as strong as that last pathetic post was trying to make him. thing got rocked at his base level strength. juggernaut has been stopped 1 time in all of history by something on a physical level. before he regained momentum the ground he was standing on collapsed. that's the only thing EVER by physical means. that was thor's godforce. not hulk not anybody else has and can stop juggernaut. you also said that thing has gotten stomped by hulk before. but thing has also stood toe-to-toe several times on his own. until hulk has been sufficiently raged enough to take him down. so what's yur point???? you are still rambling basically bout nothing. you havn't said anything new. juggernaut has only been "knocked into a coma before" by onslaught. whom may, or may not have used psionics. nothing is definate. because IT WASN'T SHOWN. using psionics would also explain why juggernaut blinked in and out of consciousness all through the crossover for no apparent reason. he also had a mental block put in place. that would support the theory that psionics were used.

JuggernautFan
and i already stated a feat of physical strength by juggernaut, in a weakened state, he supported the weight of a building. a severely weakened state. it's not 150 billion ton's but it is alot of weight. juggernaut was so strong he ripped through dimensional barriers. as far as i'm aware hulks punching power has never reached a level of that magnitude. could you please state anywhere that he has reached that level of power?????? i can tell you, it hasn't happened. not now not ever. if dimensional barriers cannot stop his fists, i doubt hulks skull would be able too. get the point? just thought i would post like a few of you, for a moment.

JuggernautFan
i do however agree that the intelligent hulks stand more of a chance rather than the "dumb" hulks. one because intelligence in the marvel universe has more often than not proven to be superior to most any type of power there is. look at dooms accomplishments. he has stolen the power of silver surfer, and a watcher. the ultimate nullifier, is another invention that rivals any kind of power. said to be able to wipe even galactus from existence. thanos too with intelligence has became the ultimate being. i believe that smart hulk can think, and win against juggernaut, but i don't get what part you people don't understand about complete physical invulnerability. as long as they come in swingin, they are eventually going to be too fatigued, and to hurt to continue a fight with juggernaut. even if it takes all year to do so. eventually any incarnation of hulk (except possibly war, whom could be sustained by his unilimited amounts of energy) would have to stop and eat/drink, and rest at some point. i'm sure an intelligent hulk could concieve of something similar to what nimrod did, but in straight up physical confrontation, i think juggernaut would win. nobody has to agree with me however. nobody will ever know for certain. atleast until marvel say's one way or the other. oh, plus i thought this should be mentioned. twice in hulks history he has been hurt by spiderman. somebody who failed to even give juggernaut notice. until he annoyed him. spiderman as rescently as 2000 has did this, so i dont' want to hear anything about hulk being in his early years, or being a developing character.

Rasta
You have massive problems with paragraphs, honestly, grammar is appreciated on forums. I miss every post of yours bar a few, just because they look to damn long, and are harder to read.

Linkalicious
can you site the issues where he

a. lifts said building
b. rips a whole in the fabric of a dimension

othewise you aren't stating facts...because facts are supported.

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