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Well, honestly, I was a little disappointed by the way that Peter Jackson redid half the plot of the second book for the movie... in a completely unnecessary way, really.

So, what have you been able to glean from trailers, etc. that will be screwed with in the third movie?

Here's what I have figured so far.

1) The Dunedain never come to assist Aragorn. It appears that he goes into the caves alone with Legolas and Gimli. I think this is *really* stupid; instead of having the freaking elves come help at Helm's Deep, Jackson could have at least had the Dunedain come early and assist in the battle. It would have made more sense, that's for sure.

2) Elrond gives Anduril to Aragorn?! That should have happened in the first book.

3) Galadriel and Frodo? That could be a flashback of some sort, in fact it probably is.

4) Scouring of the Shire is removed. I guess it was pretty anticlimatic to the whole book, but it was interesting nonetheless. I wonder what he has in store for Saruman, then.

5) More unnecessary, irrelevant, and dull Arwen garbage.

Perhaps I'm a bit of a "official book material Nazi" but the events could have played out the way Tolkein wrote them and would have worked just fine. If anything, Jackson's changes add some plot holes and inconsistencies.

it work fine only because you have read the book.
peter jackson have to think about those who haven't even heard of it.
so far i think he haven't screw anything, to adapt a book that could last god knows how many hours, and so full of details and hisotry, into movies that could stand on it's own, and is understandable and appealling to ppl who have never heard of it before is not an easy feat.
but i supposed if you are really into the book u might be a bit offended by the changes, but just remember how many ppl start reading the books because of the movies.
sometimes you just gotta look at it separately, and enjoy it on it's own.
and u've gotta to admit that he did a really good job with the location like the shire and rivendel, and the casting.

Sure, the book had to be condensed. But there are some changes that just make me think "What the hell?!" For instance:

1) The Warg attack. It wasn't in the book. It wasn't completely necessary. If it weren't for that, they could have gotten more of the second book in the second movie. If they put all of the second book in the second movie, they could focus more on the cool stuff in the third book (some of which they will have to cut out because there will be leftovers from the second book there).

2) The Elves coming to save the day. It doesn't make much sense. The Elves don't really care about what happens to the humans in Rohan. Aragorn's rangers, however, do care. It would have made lots more sense to have them come a little early and participate in the battle, then later join in the battles from the third book.

3) Elrond coming to bring Aragorn the sword. Why couldn't it be reforged at Rivendell and given to him there? There would be no problems with that.

4) The battle at Helm's Deep, with 300 people -- mostly peasants -- vs. 10,000 orcs. I find that more than a little unbelievable. The battle in the book wasn't quite so "desperate." There were plenty of soldiers there (though they were quite outnumbered) and such a battle would be more believable.

5) The Ents. The Ents decide to attack Isengard at their meeting in the book. The Ents, supposedly, know what is going on in their forest and are quite aware of Saruman's tree-chopping. In fact, in the book, they arrive pretty soon after the Orcs leave Isengard and a good portion of them follow the Orcs to Helm's Deep and kill the ones that retreat after Gandalf shows up. Due to the nature of the Ents, this would have made plenty more sense.

Here are a few things that I guess I don't have problems with.

1) Arwen. Her role in the books was practically nonexistant, and people would be confused if she showed up for two minutes. It still doesn't make sense that she was going to leave.

2) Eomer not being present at Helm's Deep. In the book, he is present with a good amount of his men. Gandalf, instead, shows up with 1,000 men on foot from the eastern fiefs led by a guy who was mentioned only briefly before. I suppose it would have been confusing if a bunch of people showed up in the movie and nobody had any idea who they were. I still disagree with the other aspects of the battle, though.

Yeah, when i was watching the trailer, i was like, hold on, wtf? Well, maybe Elrond giving the sword to aragorn was a flash back..... well probably not because we didn't see it before, but that is definately screwed up.

The Warg attack thing, it was just an excuse really to have an Aragorn and Arwen flashback, that was pretty much the whole purpose, but we could have definately scratched that....

Wait, Eomer not being present at Helm's Deep, I thought that Gandalf came back with he and his little army that was exiled, i am very confused, maybe i just assumed that it was him and his little army...

Oh I see, the wargs unneeeded eh? **** that. Where else do we get to see wargs in LOTR? We don't. Now DON'T tell me you never wanted to see a battle with them when you was reading the book.

Seriously, all you people complaining - get a ****ing life. I would love to have seen you make them movie and have it fail miserably. YES, that is what WOULD have happened if Jackson had followed the book precisely.

Here is a simple thing which you can do: Grow Up!

hey, i meant scratch the aragorn and arwen scene, i liked the wargs those were interesting, and anyway, i came in here to have a simple conversation on what peter jackson was going to do with the movie, i don't necessarily agree that he has screwed up the movie... why don't you grow up, that was my opinion so deal with it, don't tell me to grow up because i explained my opinion, if you don't agree with it, get out, and make your own thread saying how much you think peter jackson did a good job, and he did, then there will be no critizing your opinion.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/arrow.gif out!

Have you actually read the title of the thread? Do you not see why I was saying Grow Up? I was giving MY opinion also and I DID NOT tell any of you to "Get Out". If you don't like your opinion's critiscised m8, then you're in the wrong place.

hey, i don't like it when people tell me to grow up, especially when it's because they don't agree with my opinion. i think by now people should understand that you need to accept other people's opinions.

Well, that's the point - You DON'T have to accept other people's opinions. Go watch a large dose of Bill Hicks and it will cheer you up

Yah, calm down everybody. Sifer, watch your language.
There's difference of opinions on all subjects.

So Mah ur from Norway?

you know what's a great quote, i have no clue what it's from, but speaking of differences....

They laugh because i'm different, but i laugh because you're all the same...

i luv it.

i think he does it coz it would have been really hard to explain and to save time i mea 18 months is a long time to film

i personally think peter jackson has done a AWESOME job on the lord of the rings triology, hes brought tolkiens books to life! Now if he would of stuck with the whole book, the movie would be over 6 or more hours, pretty soon, people will get tired and walk out of me, me..personally would sit there through the whole movie if he did the whole entire book as a movie because im soo drawn and hooked to lord of the rings

Now...the warg attacks to me were VERY awesome to see, very exciting, very great, i loved it, my dad even loved that part, and the scene wasnt just to have a arwen and aragorn flashback, you saw saruman sending them out, it wasnt used for a arwen and aragorn flashback, i thought it was a incredible scene!

The ents attacking isenguard was a spectacular scene, i was absoulutly thrilled the way the ents stood up for themselves and took action against saruman, that scene got me all excited, and i was cheering them on, you should of seen me!

The scouring of the shire, although i havent gotten to that part yet, i hear from different people that its a very good and very interesting and then from some..that its not! Its just too bad its not gonna be in there

Battle of helms deep to me was VERY exciting, and VERY interesting, i was so drawn and i was cheering and go ballistic throughout those scenes, it was amazing! I cant wait for more battle scenes in return of the king!

Arwen, as much as ALOT of you dont like her and hate the storyline with her and aragorn, i disagree, nothing is wrong with her or the storyline, i think its a lovely and inspiring storyline, and i really like the arwen character, shes strong as a elf, shes not afraid of anything, and she will do anything to stay with aragorn which involves giving up her immortal life for a mortal life just to be with him, to me..thats sweet and its beautiful, although its sad family wise, but still, if i was her, id do the same thing!

what confuses me though with two towers is...what happened to eowyn once the battle of helms deep started, i dont think it showed her anymore...either i missed something...or im just gonna have to watch again and see! (speaking of two towers, our preview channel has been showing two towers alot!)

All in all, peter jackson wont take out something that is huge out of the movie, im sure hes taking the little things out, not anything big, he hasnt screwed up anything for return of the king, hes working hard making it a incredible movie, and to me...return of the king is gonna be exciting, breathtaking, sad, amazing and everything, and i SOOO cannot wait till it comes out!!

;-)

*walk out on it" made a typo not "walk out of me" LOL!

cant type today

Don't get the impression that I don't enjoy the movies. I do quite a bit. I just don't understand Jackson's reasoning for some of the changes.

Give us a few and I will try to explain why he would have had to change it.

Yes.

Sifer

1) The Elves coming to save the day. It doesn't make much sense. The Elves don't really care about what happens to the humans in Rohan. Aragorn's rangers, however, do care. It would have made lots more sense to have them come a little early and participate in the battle, then later join in the battles from the third book.

2) Elrond coming to bring Aragorn the sword. Why couldn't it be reforged at Rivendell and given to him there? There would be no problems with that.

3) The battle at Helm's Deep, with 300 people -- mostly peasants -- vs. 10,000 orcs. I find that more than a little unbelievable. The battle in the book wasn't quite so "desperate." There were plenty of soldiers there (though they were quite outnumbered) and such a battle would be more believable.

4) The Ents. The Ents decide to attack Isengard at their meeting in the book. The Ents, supposedly, know what is going on in their forest and are quite aware of Saruman's tree-chopping. In fact, in the book, they arrive pretty soon after the Orcs leave Isengard and a good portion of them follow the Orcs to Helm's Deep and kill the ones that retreat after Gandalf shows up. Due to the nature of the Ents, this would have made plenty more sense.

I massively disagree with all your views, elchip. I just see this as another example of tiresome purism.

Book and film are different- what works well in book does not necessarily work well on film. Just accept that.

PJ has done an excellent job, all things considered.

Let me just take your four points there.

1. Of course the Elves care, just they do not have the resources. But he changed the storyline so ther were less humans but, presumably, more Elves, because this created greater drama for the scene and included the Elves who everyone loved. It made the scene more pipular

2. That fits the dramatic sweep he has made for Aragorn in the film far better. It was a necessary change to a more character driven storyline.

3. Again, this was done for the need of drama. It in no way ruins the scene- it just better fits the way it was done and people ADORED that battle

4. This one is a particularly bad point to raise. This whole sequence if done literally from the book would have been as dull as ditchwater. Merry and Pippin have to DO something, not just observe, that is no fun in a film. You say that that way would make more sense to the nature of the Ents. IN THE BOOK. But in the film, PJ changed that nature so that Merry and Pippin had something to DO in that sequence by persuading them to come help.

I am very glad PJ- ass big a fan as Tolkien as any of us- did this project and not someone who thinks like you or the films, trying to tie themselves to the book's narrative, would be far worse for it.

Now, if you want what happens in the book- go read the book. Other than that you will have to accept the film for what it is- a triumph, and a gift to everyone, not simply a thing to please book fans.

Fair enough.

\

I see your point. On the basis of artistic principal, never recreate a work of art exactly, as in down to the tee, like someone else did. Thats just whack, besides, the extended versions of the movie make it more complete. However I can't help but think why did PJ change somethings in the book, but thats his perogative. Personally I really want to see the Dunedain fight. I've been waiting for it since the first movie. The problem I have is people won't have any real attachment to the Rangers because PJ never introduced them beforehand. Y'know? But that's just more of a personal thing with me.

I honestly don't understand why is it "screwing up" the story by changing some things. I think PJ actually helped the story for those who have not read the books...He really didn't leave out things that were essential to the outcome of the Ring's fate either! The things he added made the story more exciting from the film perspective! Imagine how dreary and boring it would've been for some ppl, if he would have followed the books WORD for WORD! That gives PJ, Fran and Phillipa more merit for having collaborated on the writing!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/clap.gif

Well said Verity! people NEED to put into consideration that Peter Jackson was making a MOVIE for all audiences and that includes people who have not read the books (lets face it, people these days just DONT read!)
So to make a functional movie PJ had to change some things, so what? Those of us who have read the books fully appreciate them, and those who havent and still like the movies still get the gist of the story, so everyone should end up happy!

Thankya, thankya thankya very mauch!

Yea, i have to admit that peter jackson did a very good job with the films... you only have so much time fo the movie. If there was enough time for the movie, each movie would be like 6 hours..... i wouldn't mind it, but the rest of this world is restless, always in a hurry, not too many people would like a six hour movie.... and i know there was some thought about breaking each movie up into two movies, but that would mean a total gap for the other half of the movie for like two years, so the process in movies is like 12 years... i don't think it would be a good idea...

the point of me rambling on and on, lol, is that there HAD to be scenes cut...

I loved this battle scene! Plus, it showed that Saruman tried killing the men while they were STILL going to Helms Deep, instead of just waiting for them to get to the impenetrable fortress. The scenes with Arwen were great too. A great transition to Elronds 'talk' with her daughter.

I think they did care.

Maybe because if he accepted it before, then the whole background work for the He-declined-his-right-to-the-throne thing would be pointless. This way there's a buildup leading to the third movie aptly titled, 'Return Of The King'.

This is a movie. Visuals count on this medium. You can't really convince the audience that it's a desparate battle without showing them the odds. It's all tension buildup to make Gandalfs entrance more than spectacular.

Hmm.. I thought so too. Or maybe it's a way for Jackson to show that Merry and Pippin had some major part in it.

Arwen's addition to the movie is a God send! Makes the movie a better one with just the right mix of ingredients. I loved her addition too.

Right, you are.
I loved the whole battle scene, and the reason has got a lot to do with Elves.

All in all, Peter Jackson did the books justice. He did an excellent job.
And he better get the Oscars for Best Director or heads will roll.....

What I'm really angry about are the changes at the Paths of the Dead -
Aragorn will have to fight them so that they follow him, how could PJ kill the cool athmosphere about the prophecy in the book so brutally??

Have you seen the film?

Has who seen the film?

what the heck? Rotk doesn't come out till december, sifer what the heck are you talkin about?

I think what Sifizzo meant was you haven't seen the film so you don't really know if the Dunedain are with him or not. But in general I think PJ has definetly shorted the Rangers some scenes. But who gives a flying fuhc

oh okay, lol, yea, i can't wait to see the paths of the dead.....

Better Aragorn than that Afreakin Elf

Oh and if you must know, Aragorn meets with the Rangers AFTER the paths of the dead - that is where they are going, as it is a shortcut through the mountains.

And he hasn't said that he has to fight the Army of the Dead - They fight for him

well, i just can't wait to see ROTK, especially the fight scenes... yummy...

I can't wait to see it full stop - it is going to be truly breathtaking, tear jerking and brilliant!

That's what I'm sayin"!

I'm a big "official book material Nazi" myself. My goal is to watch the movies without any nasty comments about any kind of change, as much as I love the movies. Also, for a complete list of changes in the movies, go here: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm and the movie-goers guide on the left. The Encyclopedia of Arda has EVERYTHING. And then about RotK:

1) From what I've seen it appears that they are going to make the whole "Sauron thinks Pippin has the Ring" thing into a big deal including some Nazgul. Drama drama.

2) The Rangers actually did accompany Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas on the Paths of the Dead in the book, but not in the movie. Just can't take the attention away from the main charactes, now can we?

4) More of Arwen's dilema. A bunch of trash if you ask me. I wish they would just forget about her.

5) I'm hoping the whole Galadriel and Frodo thing is just a flashback, or maybe a vision of some sort. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

6) It probably isn't anything, but I can't help but wonder about the absence of Faramir pictures, or at least ones where he looks alive. Has anybody seen any?

7) The Scouring of the Shire. As Peter Jackson says in the directors commentary of FotR, they're leaving it out. I kind of knew it was coming I guess, with Sam not getting the seeds from Galadriel in the extended version, but it still makes me mad. And not only is it an important and interesting thing, it also presents some problems, like what will happen to Saruman?

Anyway, I'm sure RotK will be amazing. I just hope they stay truer to the book that they did in TTT.

haha, i wish that they would limit arwen's role too, right on

Where's 3)?

4) exactly my opinion
5) I also hope so the problem is that he has pieces of shelobs web on his clothes. I think its like a vision 'bout the phiol thing.
7) there are five different versions filmed of Sarumans death, the most popular one: grima cuts sarumans throat and throws him off the balcony of orthanc and saru gets stabbed on his wheel things.

Hrmmm, riiiight, forget about Arwen - that's a good idea - NOT!

Oops, skipped three. I can count, I promise.

I don't think I've met anyone who's read the books and likes what they've done with Arwen's role. I mean, she's pretty insignificant until RotK, and she doesn't do much then either. My friends and I love Eowyn. I hope they don't let the audience know that she's Durnhelm, but it looks they will from the preview.

I'm not sure what I think about how Saruman's going to die, mostly just because it's not going to be in the Shire, but I'll get over it. Exa, do you know what happens to Grima after he kills Saruman? Just curious.

Legolas shoots him

Ah, Legolas. Thanks Exa!

hey, i said LIMIT arwen's role, without her role, there would be a big hole in the book...

heres sarumans death

saruman is basicaly being cheeky, as you do when your trapped in a tower with ents and a great fellowship beneath you, and gandalf snaps sarumans staff, so hes not a wizard no more, then wormtongue pushes saruman off hois balcony and saruman falls on a big spiky whell thing, the legolas shoots an arrow into the air, and grima is thinkin what the hell was that, and it comes down and kills him, palintir gets dropped somewhere in there

plus its a movie and a book.. the two are different what makes a good book needs to be changed bit for a screen..

The detail with the staff is new for me
thx thats interesting indeed

That seemed to be the last for Saruman. Gandalf at that point also took away his colour and cast him from the order and from the council. A punitive action, Saruman forfeits his special Maiar attributes. It is symbolic that the staff's head lands at Gandlaf's feet.

It seems that Saruman was always at his most powerful in Orthanc, so finally removed from there, he is just a beggar in the wilderness.

I agree that there should be an Arwen in the movies, but she definitely doesn't need to have one as big as she does. I just want to drop the whole "should I stay or go" thing.

And about Saruman's death, does anybody know when it would take place? I'm thinking that it would be when (in the books) Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli get to Orthanc and Saruman comes out and talks to them. Please let me know if I'm wrong!

yup, that's cool how they kill saruman, but i feel that they should not have cut the war at the shire out, so that stinks, but that's awesome that it's 3 1/2 hours long, 31 min longer than two towers,

totally agree with you.
but this really depends on whose fan you are.
arwen's fan can't get enough of her, no matter how wrong it is to have such a big role for her in the movies.
i'm an eowyn's fan, and it's really annoying for her to have such a big role that she actually steal attention from eowyn, who is really the great heroin of the story. i just hope they will make up for it in the third movie.

yea, it's pretty much with girl fans of lotr, you love eowyn and can't stand arwen or just don't like arwen too much or you hate eowyn and love arwen with arwen fans it seems that they have to hate eowyn it's kind-of strange...

i think that in rotk extended pj should have special feature arwen vs eowen boxing, wrestling, i would enjoy that lol

and, when sarumans staff is snapped and he is cast from the order, he loses his power IN THE FILM ONLY in the book he as gandalf puts it, "still capable of menace for you are forgetting his voice" or something like that exa i bought silmarillion, its great thanks 4 the tip off

Yeah, I completely agree about the Arwen/Eowyn thing. I'm an Eowyn fan myself (in case you didn't notice the picture ) "But no living man am I. You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter..." So anyway, I never had anything against Arwen until she had such a big role in the movies and Liv Tyler's name came third in the credits. But I will stop ranting now and go read FotR!!

Good


Oh no there is a quite big pic of Arwen on the official poster while there is NO Faramir, Denethor, Dernhelm, Eomer or somebody else - HELP!!!

I found a comic type thing while i was going to some lotr site, if i can find the site i'll show it to ya

well im going to wait till jordan and jodie marsg have the boxing match (people in usa may not know about that, two lasses having big slanging match griefing each other, because jordan has GIANT breasts and jodie has weird nose lol) and then superimpose arwen and eowens heads onto the bodys and il post it in here

My feelings exactly. I mean, her picture was a lot bigger than Eowyn's, and Arwen isn't really even supposed to be in TT. Grrr.

While I doubt it means anything, I would feel much better if I saw a picture of Faramir where he's not unconscience (especially one with Eowyn). Anybody seen one?

yup, in ttt movie cover, gimili, legolas, and a bunch of other characters r smaller than arwen, wtf, why is she so big of a character????

oh i know!!! how rudeness! i didn't like that... and no faramir

Well, they probably didn't put Faramir on the poster because they made him into such a big jerk. That made me so mad. They had that exact quote from the book - and then they ruined it!!!!! I was in total shock for about five minutes. Stupid out of character Faramir.

yeah, they also made theoden a b**** to aragorn... they made boromir a snob, which he was in the books, but not that much.... everyone's being @$$ to aragorn, probably just jealous... after all he's almost the king! http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/king.gif

Go Aragorn!

i hope jackson wont change the story too much. but who knows...
when aragorn makes his speach in front of the rohirrim (in the trailer), it seems that eowyn is with them. so what does this mean????
maybe aragorn will meat the rohirrim before coming to minas tirith and is NOT constituting an army by his self.

I hope this sentence was correct english...
or understandable for you.

yea it's quite ok, and whatever Pj changes will have its reasons

i hope so. even if he changed much in ttt i loved the movie. i wonder if anyone else possibly could have done it better...

I'm glad that TT was changed the most because it means that RotK will have to be more accurate.

I hadn't really thought about Aragorn's speech. I just kind of assumed that it was before the battle, but now that you mention it, he should be off getting the army from the Paths of the Dead instead. I know that he does go to the Paths of the Dead in the movie (although the Rangers aren't there, just Legolas and Gimli), so he probably shouldn't be there. He doesn't arrive til close to the end of the battle if I remember correctly. Hmmm...

Just wondering, what does everyone think about the fact that the movies aren't split up the way the books are? I thought that they would mix things up, but I read that when they were thinking about making the movies at an earlier time Tolkien said that it was essential to keep the different stories seperate. Any opinions?

i think that splitting the books up into where they are in the films was kinda a good idea but it would have been much cooler to have left the breaks where they were

Yeah, I agree that it probably makes more sense to split them up the way they did, but you lose the whole thing that you get from reading the books, counting down until you get to find out what's happening to Frodo and Sam, and then as soon as you get there dying to know what's going happen to Pippin! That's how I felt at least.

don't worry for all of you arwen fans *gags* it's offical aragorn and arwen's wedding has been filmed, crap i hate that idea, for all those eowyn fans it's nice to think that tolkien was going to have eowyn and aragorn marry in the first place, so, we can just think about that when we see them get married...

hmmm its good that he changed his mind.

Aragorn was destined to be with Arwen. Well if Tolkien had completely left out the 60 yr romance with Arwen and Aragorn, then it would have been ok for Eowyn to hook up with Aragorn.

i guess, but, i wish their love would have taken some more twists and turns, it was too obvious they would get together in the end...

As a fan of Tolkiens work, I do wonder why Peter Jackson has left bits out of the film. But, I think he has done a wonderful job. Can you honestly sit there for maybe 8 hours or more in a cinema, watching 'Fellowship'. No. Youd get bored, Lord of the Rings would be slated by its own fans for being too long, and people, surprise surprise, this is A MOVIE. Budgets have to be stuck to. Movie times, wages have to be paid, PEOPLE NEED TO SLEEP.
I think Peter Jackson and co deserve all the accolades, prizes, etc they can get their hands on. I dont think anybody else could have done a better job than Jackson/Osborne. That is my opinion, reject it or not, I dont care. At least acknowledge the hours, months and years (YES, YEARS) that the cast and crew had put into making this movie, transforming it visually, so that you and I can sit there, and see for ourselves. I for one say, my dream came true.

Tifa x

Hmmm... maybe you're right

(ps @tifa the singular of "maiar" is "maia" )

to lockhart, there isn't enough time to film all of it, if we wanted the film would be like 5 hours long and + if pj had everything in it...

If you read my post, you'll see thats what im saying.

Thanks Exa. Can we just call it a slip of the finger!!!?? (Nice hobbit...!! hehe)

whoops, my bad....

I'm still so angry about the paths of the dead X(

And the fact that there seem to be elves at pelennor (elven flag and no its not Elronds or Arwens)

yeah, elves are really supposed to not give a care about the human kind, so why did they come to helm's deep? and why are they coming to pelennor fields, stupid pj for changing that... i was okay with helms deep but now it's a little too much elves like too much arwen...

Definitely

though I must say I loved the scenes at helms deep
But he shouldve let them away.

i think what p.j has one with the elves is a good thing, i was like you all at first going " hmm that man looks like an elf, OMG HE IS AN ELF, pj what have you done, oh lord no" but then i began to think that it showed that all races of middle earth are uniting to fight this evil (apart from dwarves, what exactly do *they do*)

I was really surprised when the elves showed up. I was trying to figure out whether I had just forgotten about them or they weren't really supposed to be there. And I know it's kinda insensitive of me, but I wasn't really sad when Haldir died, because in my little world he wasn't there and didn't die. He's still in Lothlorien as far as I'm concerned. For me it's like the books are the records of what really happened, and then the movies are just adaptions, but the books are the real story. Anybody else feel that way?

well, they had to make a reason for arwen to stay for a while longer... and so they did that, made haildar die, sorry i mispelled, but anyway, stupid pj...

i DON'T feel that waY, but I can dig whatcha say.

for those of you out there that didnt think PJ screwed up the plot, i think that PJ did an excellent job of filming and mixing around the movies. ya he did change alot of things but if i went and saw the movies,never reading the book, and PJ didnt put Arwen in like he did, put the other rangers in, and added or took away any thing important or things that didnt matter i would be totaly confused. the way he put the movies together was great i think when he put Arwen in fotr then it introduced her to the film and showed the relationship between Aragorn and Arwen, putting the other rangers in would only make sense to those who read the book and so would the scouring of the shire. ok PJ put in a little to much of Arwen in the movie but well enough to introduce her ,But hey thats just me (if i missed any thing let me know) jk. So what do you guys think...

He DID a great job
I just dont like some details like the Arwen scenes
But thats just my opinion and I think some of it was necessary

ya it was, i think he did put her in too much but the movies turned good

http://www.theonering.net

Saruman/Grima scenes have been cut from Return of the King.

ARWEN that..... ARWEN this.... why all the arwen in lotr... why??? stupid arwen scenes added!

Yeah, im glad there is a thread started to not bash PJ. I mean I like bein a lil thrown off gaurd every now and then instead of seein the exact same thing i read. But yes i agree,,,, the Arwen scenes do get pretty lengthy when u know helms deep is like 30min away.

Oh yes

But I think PJ was the best to do the film.

CUT ?!?


Yes, I do

I agree that scenes like Aragorn's Arwen dream-sequence were unnecessary. The elf commander at Helm's Deep was REALLY ugly! They made a big mistake in casting him! Elves are supposed to be attractive!

well, no offense but i don't find elrond attractive lol... but hugo weaving is cool...

I love Elrond's hair, with the knots and everything. It's so cool.

but do u really think that he's attractive....just a question...

No, I'm not really attracted to him...but his Elrond hair is just the best!

elrond probably would be attractive, if legolas wasnt practicaly glowing in the cornere EVERY time elrond came on screen, and the ONE time legolas wasnt there with him frodo was, stiff competition

p.s im not gay, i just admit that them two are attractive males

OK peeps, its book vs film again. the fact is that its a film supposadly based on the LOTR books. the reality is that they are inspired by them at best and too much of the greatest story ever written has been modified to accomodadte rediculous hollywood bullshit. my beef isnt that its different from my perseption of the story but that bits have been wholesaly changed for no good reason, and in every case it has a negative effect (eg faramir being bad when he was meant to be like his brother but with the strength of mind to resist the ring, arwen having any sort of role whatsoever appart from marrying aragorn, the happy ending on TFOTR and the shit cheesy line, golum being turned into a comedy sidekick). even if u havent read the books, there are bits that are just really, really bad (galadriel turning green and gong crazy? the shit cheesy line at the end of FOTR? golums convorsation with himeself? - as well as being stupid, this ****s a major part of the story, it was meant to be an epic battle between good and eveil, golums 2 personalitys with good finally triumphing (for now) but now its a comedy interlude)

(major spoilers iminent) so, the question is, will PJ **** this one up as well, as he has with the other 2 where something rediculous has been added/changed that has ruined the movie?


(spoiler)



my monies on yes, he'll fanny about with reforging the sword, bugger up one of the 2 battles, possibly change who kills the king ring raith, change wot saruman does, wot happens to frodo n sam and how the ending should work
(spoiler)

do you really think he would change Eowyn's fight with Nazgul's King? EEEK! thats is the one thing I have been waiting for and I seen the set set for minas tirith it looked great,so lets hope your wrong

boy thats pretty harsh. i do agree that some things were changed for apparently no good reason, but i think PJ had done a great job and despite some of the things that bug me (yes galadriel going berserck is one of them) i am thankful that the films even got made so major credit to PJ for that.

eowen did not fight the witch king, she did nothing of the sort, she cleaved its head of after merry stabbed its knee, a straight fight between the two could only have one outcome

grrrrrrrrrr how many of these threads are they gonna have!?!?!?.......

I dunno Mr Badger. Asked me the same question when I came out of the pics on the opening night of FOTR and you would have received a different response. I am, and have been for many many many years a devoted fan of the books. I would froth at the very thought of someone even attempting to take the story to the big screen. I was disapointed to say the least the first time of watching. Then I hired it out (I was waiting for the special edition to actually buy) and thought, hmm, actually not as bad as I remembered. Then I bought the extended version and have watched it so many times its unbelievable. Similar with TTT, Im waiting for the extended version.

I always knew there would be changes, to be honest, there had to be. Some, I didnt like, but grew to accept, some I accepted straight away, some (like Aragorn falling from his horse in TTT), I still dont get. But I am now as big a fan of the films as I am of the books, though I still do separate the two in my mind.

I think to be honest, with a story so huge, you have at least try to accept that it is not going to be like by all who watch it. No media ever is. Everyone has their own ideas of some changes which should have been and some which shouldnt. And rightly so, because it is one of those stories which so many people are passionate about and so different from other epics such as Star Wars, which only ever grew from GL's mind and were intended solely for the big screen.

I believe that the main changes PJ has made have been for the better from a cinematic perspective. To follow the book line for line, simply could not be done. It would have taken about 8 films at 3 hours+ each. Some alterations had to be made and some parts sacrificed to make the film flow. And to be honest, I am glad some have been made, such as the Elves at Helms Deep, and a beefed up part with Arwen (mainly cos Liv Tyler is hot-hot-hot - but thats taking me off thread...!). Some major parts have had to be condensed simply because if you take it logically, one page of story may take up 10 minutes or more in acting, setting the scene providing backstory and explanations for the whys and wherefores. On the whole, I dont entirely agree with you, but I can appreciate where you are coming from.

There already is a "PJ messed with the movies thread" We don't need two. Of anything... at least that's what I think but, whatevah.

Umm, I never got this, but Galadriel DID go "beserk" when offered the ring, and Gollum DOES have a split personality (and talks to himself.) I do agree that while PJ did a good job making Middle Earth and it's characters, I think the script is lacking and most of the changes he made were bad and/or unnecessary.
I do appreciate the difficulty of making a novel into a book, and realize changes are necessary, but a hollywood blockbuster is not, and a long running TV series would have been a better medium IMO. Anyways, the movies are good as long as you view them as standalone and different entertainment, and not fulfillment of the book(s), which they are not.

holy hungry hasidem


this is the freakin thread!!!


why didn't anyone tell me

Hehe gabriel, it was a seperate thread, but I merged the new one with this old, so there wouldn't be two about the same subject.

Like... nah, sorry, if I made a proper reply here I would only be repeating myself for the 300th time. The regulars know my opinion on this line of thought.

okay, well i'm glad that sauron speaks for the guys, it least he doesn't say, EWW i'm a guy i can't say one word about the subject!... that annoys me so much....lol

What's this Warg attack i'm hearing about (haven't seen TT in a while)? The fellowship WAS attacked by Wargs in the book, right before attempting to go over the Misty Mountains (won't embarass myself trying to remember the name of the mountain.) However this was in Fellowship, and no such scene was in the Fellowship movie. I also hear people complain about Gollum's split personality in the movie, which he certaintly had in the book, in fact it was even mentioned ("the stinker" ring a bell?) and there was another thing but I forgot, I said this stuff in another thread...

Also peter jackson has removed the Saruman scenes from the 3rd film.

It's a real shame, but I will still see it!

Yes it is

Lee didnt even know that until he read it on the Net (well, he's very angry about it lol)



Yup the Fellowship was attacked by wolves while travelling along Hithaeglir but they attacked of free will and probably not forced by orcs.

This Warg attack happens in TT on the way of the Rohirrim to the Trihyrne and Helms Deep: Saruman sends his riders, and they kill some of the Rohirric ppl... But they're defeated and everything, only Aragorn gets thrown off a rock by one of the Wargs and everybody thinks he's dead (well, he nearly is) but he is rescued by Theodreds horse Brego... who brings Aragorn back to the Hornburg.

Horrible changes about the geography of Rohan (several rivers and even a lake added) and a waste of time which couldve been used for other important scenes that were cut instead.

Ohhh I remember that. The warg I don't have a problem with just the rest of the junk

I just hope the rumors of him leaving Christopher Lee out r false!...

The scene where the ents attacked Isengard, even though it was not in the book, was really cool. Stupid puny orcs got their asses kicked big time.

I don't really understand the signifigence of the Aragorn/Arwen love scenes, but they were VERY well done.

I thought that the Helm's deep battle was the best part of the entire movie. If they had made it any less spectacular, it would not have been enough.

And as for the Elves "not caring what happens to the Rohanians," OF COURSE THEY CARE!!!!! If it was the Elves being attacked, I would understand if the humans didn't come to help. The Elves, however, simply understood that what affected the humans would eventually affect them. They are supposed to be an ancient, wise culture, unaffected by greed and uncorrupted by power. Who cares if it was not in the book, I honestly would have been mad if they had not included that little bit. Also, like Ushgarak said, everyone loves the Elves.

I'm not the same!

One more thing: I have not yet read all the books, but I like Eowyn way better than Arwen. She has a sword.

yup, i eowyn is really cool... arwen... is cool too NOT!!!!!!!!!