Vader's body

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jedi212guy
When did Vader's body disappear when he died? The movie doesn't show it. Somebody please explain.

finti
Luke burnt him, so his body didnt disappeare.

Ushgarak
Well, I disagree, I think it did disappear, and that his ghostly appearance at the end proves it (because I am certain that disappearing and ghost form are linked); in support of all this are comments by Rick McCallum and the Official website (though that is not proof in of itself).

In which case, I wouild say it disappeared very shortly after his last words; probably by the time Luke took off in the shuttle.

finti
Ghostly as Anakin yes not as vader, remember Vader was very much mechanical where do the mechanical limbs go?

Ushgarak
Obviosuly THEY didn't go anywhere; only his organic parts disappeared.

jedi212guy
GL has a far amount of explaining to do about vanishing bodies. big grin

Texas
I took his body, it's under my bed evil face

yerssot
Wel, we saw he was dead but them Luke took him in his shutlle so we don't know what is the full truth, but everybody and GL are saying that it was his armor that was on the pile, this was because GL first wanted to get the disapearing trick only done by guys from the Ligh Side, but felt it was not fair for DV so he let him be a ghost also.
It is true that it is ANNAKIN that is a ghost and NOT DV!!! There IS proof in the movie ROTJ!! Look at the gost his hair! He HAS hear so he is not Vader without his armor wich we saw earlyer in the movie, so this MUST be Annakin

Ushgarak
Well, let;s not over-distinguish the two (because it is all a bit metaphysical), but you are generally right.

Check the thread Jedi Death for a fuller discussion on the disappearing trick, and any numjber of past threads where myself and Queeq have argued endlessly about it...

yerssot
Ushgarak Well, let;s not over-distinguish the two (because it is all a bit metaphysical), but you are generally right.

Sorry, English is not my first language (4th language) can you explain your answer in simple English please?

jedi212guy
Don't worry, he's just talking out of his a$$. No insult intended, alright?

Ushgarak
Don;t spend too much time seperating Anakin from Vader when it comes to the disappearing trick. It;s the same body, after all.

jedi212guy
I don't think of it as a trick. I think of it as more of a "soul", if you will. Anakin/Vader have just one soul. Since Anakin was prepared to die, he COULD become one with the force, which I think Qui-Gon couldn't b/c he wasn't ready. Sorry if I am using too many religious metaphors. Maybe you don't have too disappear to enter a "spirit body?" If true, Anakin wouldn't have had to disappear for Luke to see his "spirit body."

Ushgarak
It is known in fandom as the Disappearing/Ghost trick.

And you shouldn;t be asking or saying why QGJ didn't do it; you ask why Obi-Wan and the others COULD. That is the way around it is.

yerssot
I find it funny that you can see Annakin at the end of ROTJ as a ghost, but he has his 2 arms, no metal anywhere. So, guess, dissapearing heals a Jedi, right? smile

Ushgarak
I think the point is that he appared in ghost form how he WANTED to look; that is, how he would have been at that age if he had not been the corrupted being that was Vader.

jedi212guy
I totally agree with that. big grin

finti
Well as Anakin he was pure. Vader was evil, guess the pure one wins the ghost part.

sand person no. 10
how is anakin pure, there must of been some evil in him to turn to the darkside in the first place.

Ushgarak
Now, that is true. But then, so do all people. I think the point was clear; Anakin was a good man, Vader was a bad (if you care to distinguish so much between the two); the spirit was of Anakin.

Texas
Wait, so I'm confused. Vaders body disappeard when Luke put him in the shuttle, and when they got back to the planet, they decided to burn his cape just for the hell of it? What, that makes no sense, wouldn't they just throw away his suit like some trash? I mean, if his organic body disappeard, there would be no point in burning his suit! Face it, Lucas didn't think this through! confused

finti
Well what if Luke did it as a gesture towards his father or as a jedi. Like the way they burnt Qui-Gon in TPM.

Texas
They only burned Qui-Gon because he didn't disappear. I'm sure if he did, they wouldn't burn his chlothes.

Ushgarak
Burning Vader's suit was symbolic.

jedi212guy
Do you have to disappear to be seen in a spirit body? Could Qui-Gon be seen in Epi. 3?

Ushgarak
I believe you do; I believe it is self-evident and I believe that it is stretching credibility if the disappearing trick and the ghost trick are BOTH things that Obi-Wan and Yoda work out later in the story (as Darth Vader clearly knows of the existence of NEITHER in ANH; hence the Strike me down line etc.).

Thgere is some debate here, though. If Qui-Gon turns up as a ghost I am almost certainly wrong.

sand person no. 10
if vader doesn't know of the ghost trick and the dissapeaering trick, then how does he manage to transform himself into a ghost at the end of the film, he saw ob1 vanish but he couldn't have suddenly thought to himself, "right, when i die i think i'll vanish as well, just for the fun of it," in fact does he even dissapear, his face is still there when luke drags him onto the ship and is it not possible thathis body had sunk into the fire and so that all that remained visible at that point was his mask. the gap between him dying and the gap between him appearing could only have been about a day or so anyway so why can't qui gon, in ten years have managed to learn that? i'm still convinced it has something to do with unfinished business and that when that business is finished you don't appear anymore.

either way, burning vader wasn't very good for the environment now was it.

Ushgarak
How Anakin managed to vanish is somewhat of a mystery.

But Vader did NOT know of either trick, that was the whole point of that scene with Obi-Wan.

If it was just down to fulfilling desitnies it would have happened before, which it hasn't.

sand person no. 10
how do you know, perhaps all of the jedi have suceeded in fulfilling their destines and so there was no need for them to come back as a ghost, i will admit though that this topic is hard because apart from anakin we don't know any of the jedi's destiny, vader was wrong about lukes so we don't know his either.

queeq
We don't KNOW if Vader disappears. We don't SEE it happening.

yerssot
The clothes burning can be to say: we destroyed all that is left of Vader, only the good memories stay

Ushgarak
I still think it is self-evident that Anakin's Ghost appearance PROVES he disappeared! And most of Lucasfilm is on my side!

yerssot
I agree, but what Lucasfilm thinks doesn't mather: they are just guys that work on a terrific movie, but it must be clearly in the movie; it is nice that it is said by them (even McCallum) but it must be IN the movie

Ushgarak
Yes, I know that (though I think the ghost appearance is direct film proof), but you have to admit the case for saying he disappeared is looking very strong.

Texas
Yeah, he disappeared, it's a shame Jar Jar doesn't! roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
We can allways shoot him evil face evil face evil face
What? Ush agrees again??? What have you been drinking???

Texas
Yeah he's probably been drinking, and god only know what else wink smokin'

Ratcat
Maybe the burning allows them to move into oneness with the Force if they don't vanish on their own. That would also give a reason for the burning of QGJ?

yerssot
Than ob1 doesn't need to be sad, because he will see his master back

Ratcat
Well, he wasn't weeping and throwing his arms in the air was he?

yerssot
No but the celebration after the funeral was a prooflaughing out loud

Ratcat
I dunno, we don't know the timeframe between the funeral and the celebration but I would have thought it was a few days.

King Jedi
Enough time for all those people who we never saw during the film to suddenly appear for a big party.

Ratcat
Exactly, and there must have been time to clean up the mess made by the battle, cut Jakes hair, get him a nice, smart Jedi Suit made. All that kinda stuff.

Ushgarak
I think we have already established that Jedi do not normally disppear on their own (because if they DID than Vader would know about it), so burning them to aid this thing that does not happen is not much of an answer.

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