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If you had the knowledge and skills required, would you accept the opportunity to work for a top class company with great pay and benefits, who make nuclear and explosive weapons?

Discuss.

Pfft! Tell me where so I can apply!

I would, that also means that I'd have the power to activate the nuclear weapons since I'd be the smart one building the weapons, I'd make them in such a way that I'd be the only one holding the activation code

of course i'd take the job, i love nuclear weapons and i love money! woohoo!

After September 11th? You bet your sweet ass I would. I'd have the words "back at ya" printed on each bomb.

so... you're going to place "back at ya" on a bomb which you hope would be used against people who can't even afford such weapons?
how ... nice

They cant afford them, so they think of other creative ways to cause damage. Like crashing planes into skyscrpapers! Even Hollywood didn't think of that!

well, spiderman had a way to catch terrorists in choppers

He doesn't have a place to hang his webb anymore

Yeah, I would as long as there wasn't too much work involved.

No I would not.

The bombs dont kill people, the people who use them do

So why build then in the first place?

I wouldn't accept it, seeing as this is an 'Ethical' Question, I wouldn't for 'Ethical' reasons.

Come on guys....

I would never! No matter how much money is involved! Wouldnt want to contribute to murdering people!
Could you really wake up every morning and go to work knowing that millions will die because of you?!
just think about those 1 million people in the world who will not survive this week...why make that number even bigger....

just because you build the bombs doesn't mean they'll be used. When last was a nuclear weapon used in a war?

and plus, you get a money for it! lots of money

Why would u build one, with no intention to use it?!?! U build it to use it! so it seems everyone can be bought....

Take the job Mech! Mrs. MM deserves to be pampered like a princess! Who cares about kids with missing limbs

Well....then...im sure thats what Bin Laden thought when he arranged the attack on America...who cares about people with missing limbs! but thats ok, right....

if you don't do it and take the money someone else will. besides we need good weapons.... i'd rather drop a bomb then have to stab somone face to face.... and we will alway be fighting... so go for it.

No, I never would

I never actually said I've been offered the job, but I'm in the running for it....

I'd already made the decision to accept it, should they offer it to me. Mostly because its a good company who not only build the things, they maintain and de-commision them too. I struggled with the ethics at first but in the end I felt that the things are a necessary evil.

No

but then, I would find it boring!! hehe! mesa a drama queen type, have to act, have to sing, have to dance!

"Discuss" please.

*skips in happy circles instead*

join the skipping!

*drags mech into happy circle*

depends if I aint the only one in the world that can make the weapons work and if the country in which the company is based doesn't have a hostile foreign policy sure No Problem.

*Reluctantly skips*

Its interesting work for me, I'd be doing what I do now but with what they call "exotic" materials such as Uranium and even high explosives. I really hope they give me a shot. *crosses fingers and toes*

go mechy

Yeah....thats all well and good, but...nuclear weapons! Come on....weapons kill people...and besides, if they do use nuclear weapon you helped build, we are all screwed! And everyone will die...the end!

if mechy doesn't do it someone else will so that thing about if you do it it'll kill ppl is a strange way of thinking
the weapons will be made wether or not mechy works on em or not
and should the nukes ever get used so be it mechy didn't order anyone to buy or even launch them so

Do it, Mech. There is no ethical high ground to be taken by simply refusing a job like that. You will not make the world a better place by refusing or worse place by accepting, these things are part of society and unless you are a paid up CND member I see no reason for you to refuse.

Sorry, kids, but this is part of the adult world. People have their own lives and security to think about and if that seems selfish, wait until YOU have to think about it.

hmm you'd you refere to by kids ush?

Ok, wait just a minute! I am not a kid, i live in the real world, and you may not have lived through a war...which i can see you havent, since you are from england, and if anything you know nothing of it!!!
Ive spent 6 years of my life in a country that was in war, being bombed and what not, so dont you tell me about 'adult' world!!!!!!!

Basically, anyone telling him to refuse on on ethical grounds who have the luxury of not currently having to worry about finding the means to keep on existing.

Sorry, Lil, but I don't really care what you have lived through in relation to this question. Makes bugger all difference to me.

theres already millions of nuclear weapons in the world, enough to destroy the entire world 1 million times, a few more won't hurt.

I know you dont give a shit, but it was insulting to me! You can be a bit more ccareful what you say!
Mech is gonna do what hes gonna do no matter what we say....if hes skilled enough to be offerd that kind of job....more power to him!

i say every country should have at least ONE nuclear bomb. so if one country destroys the other the one being destroyed can destroy the other. lol just my idea.

It wasn't insulting at all. You are not yet a full adult, after all. You don't have a husband and possible family to support. I was simply pointing out that Mech has to put the needs of him and his loved ones as a priority against any very vague and dubious moral choice and this is NOT a position you are in, regardless of your upbringing. I am sorry if you are insulted but that is no fault of mine.

Mech asked us to discuss, which is what we are doing...i dont think he wants us to tell him what to do!

you are an adult when you have your family to support?what? Who told you that? Some people can have 10 families, that doesnt make them an ''full adult''!

No, that is twisting my words. But you are not yet leading a full adult life. Mech is. And I was giving him advice. I was also making comment on the advice others had given him. That is all.

Mech is gonna do whatever he wants reguardless of what we say, he wanted our opinion not advice...and i wish him all the best!

You dont know how much of an adult life i lead or dont lead, just as i dont know how you came to tat conclusion!

He does want advice.

The fact that you are an 18 year old university student is the biggest clue. Anyway, thios is becoming greatly irrelevant to the point.

The politics of war are interesting. You use nukes to scare the bijebus out of people. The more you have the scarier and more powerful you appear. Just because we make more doesn't mean we intend on using them. We won't use them until it's absolutely necessary.
And plus while he's helping to build more sophisticated nuclear weapons, more are being destroyed each day. Our arsenol and Russia's arsenol are both supposed to be declining.

i knew you are gonna say that....and this is internet mate, i could write whatever the hell i want i can be whoever i want...i can say im a Santa Claus, you wouldnt know!

Mech good luck...with whatever you do!

Well, yes, some 99.99% of nuclear weapons have been built specifically to not be used. The credibility or otherwise of that policy, however, we could debate until the end of time, and very ugly it would get as well.

And likewise I will act on what you write, so do not seem surprised or upset when I do. Which is also pretty simple. And I am pretty sure that is the truth, anyway.

Hopefully they are declining! Its funny how different people view weapons and nuclear war and stuff....

it is...it is true in fact, what i found interesting though is the fact that you judged how much of an adult i am by bu reading few lines.....

Yup, it is the same way in which I can judge clouds are in the sky, you know? It is very obvious that you are not facing the adult decisions Mech is. It was not a judgment of your character. And can we get off this redundant point please?

Oh my god! lol you are the one that started being cocky first....and now sarcasm....gee, if you are a forum cancelor you aint a god...geez!

Actually, no I wasn't. I even specified that I was talking to anyone telling him not to take the job on ethcial grounds who were not facing the things he was. You immediately assumed I meant you in that, I dunno why. If you are so convinced you are an adult then I would have thought you would assume I was not talking to you.

As it is, you made a fuss, and from all the indications you have given to me I would include you in what I said. I am sorry, but there it is.

Meanwhile, please return this on topic. This really is not useful.

Right, firstly, What would be the point in making something when you wouldn't use it?

The waste of materials and money would be stupendous.
It's common sense really.

Secondly, if you agree with making these things, then you surely don't value human life, or any life on this planet.

not "hopefully"...it's a fact, they are. at least in the U.S. and Russia, a treaty was signed to start gradually destroying many of each nations nuclear weapons after the cold war ended. Last time i checked the U.S. was down to 9,000 something, and the Russians were down to 1200 something(not including the unaccounted ones).

First of all, the thoery is that they will not be used, not that they have no use. Their very presence is intended to have an effect. As I said, the argument about that would be long and highly unpleasant and not worth having.

Second, that statement is your view. It is not the view of a great many people, many people who think that production of nuclear weaponry has saved a staggering amount of lives.

Again, this is a complicated debate that is not suitable here, but to effectively accuse Mech with not valuing human life if he takes the job- which is the implication- is hardly fair.

By taking the job you're clearly agreeing to what it does..

I've always thought that if you see something you don't agree with, don't just stand and watch, do something about it.

So do something about it.

Yeah, you are right Ushgarak! this is getting terribly off the point....no need to discuss this any further...you ware way too unimportant for this....

Agreed Candy....Mech is in a situation where he needs to decide what he wants to do...he needs to look at stuff in short and long term as well...

No, by taking the job he might just be providing for himself. Morality need not enter into it. He is not personally responsible for anything related to a state's defence strategy.

After all, nearly everyone who is anti-capitalist still take jobs that back up the capitalist society. People who disagree with education policies still send their kids to school.

I have never believed in holding anyone ethically responsible for what their work relates to unless they are pioneers or innovators in that field. People are entitled to take jobs offered and available.

Why make that generalization? Some people who make these things do believe in human life, you can't clump a group of people together under one heading, don't assume things. In fact the nuclear bomb was introduced in order to save human life and casualities of war. And after the devasting effect shown in Hiroshima and Nagasaki Truman vowed not to use them again. Like i've said before Nukes are a last resort, in today's world where technology and science keep improving an extremely powerful nation such as the U.S. needs to have these things to show off their power and need to have them as the last line of defense in case our other forces fail.

On the other hand, personally I don't give a crap what happens to humankind when these are used. I think they're great weapons.

Sigh... petty last word-ism like that does not make you look any more mature. Don't do that in future.

lol... Powerful nation like the U.S.......
You talk like you're so proud, I wouldn't want to have someone like George Bush with nukes...

i agree

ohhhh this is priceless!!! ''many people who think that production of nuclear weaponry has saved a staggering amount of lives''..
Who and where are they.. could they be...any stupider....oh ya, nuclear weapons saved soooooo amny lives in Hiroshima and Nagasaki!

He is not half as scary as Reagan was. Ironically, though, Reagan was hugely responsible for their removal from much of Europe. History is a funny thing.

...i am proud of the U.S.

They are a staggering number of historians and sociologists who point out that more people MIGHT have died invading Japan than died in the bombs and that nuclear weaponry MIGHT have saved countless lives over the last six decades by preventing any major wars.

This is one of the most common debates in modern history. I do not intend to try and present either case, but it is a case many believe in.

Nuclear weaponry is designed to 'cause fear and destruction, I don't think it has saved as many lives as it has killed.

I don't agree with you at all there, sorry.

TRUE!!

oh and yeah...Ushgarak whatever you say, darlin'....

...do u know any history?

Historians and military analyst have estimated that over 30,000 american lives were saved with the use of Little Boy and Fat Man, and then add on the amount of Japanese that would have been killed if the war had dragged on for months or even years after 1945...

I did not say I agreed with it. I was simply pointing out the view exists, so that to believe in nuclear weaponry is not necessarily to support the eradication of life.

People who believe that may be WRONG, but it was not their intent, is all.

So basically, none of this is Fact..

So why support something when there is no real proof?

This isn't Religion, so no excuses.. lol

There is proof. There is a considerable amount of proof for both sides and if I did not believe it would turn into a shouting match I would be very happy to take part in a debate on it without any firm convictions beforehand.

As it is, this kind of thing is always a very bad idea.

Debates are good.
I like them

Only 2 NUKES have been used in history, the total death toll is more than the estimated amount of lives saved but that's mostly because of radiation and not the initial impact. One of the key arguments in not wanting to use little boy and fat man was because of the release of radioactive particles and their effect on the victoms. At the time though they didn't have the technology to produce a conventional weapons as massive as a nuke

Yeah...key word being..MIGHT! People in Japan are STILL suffering from radiation! Those people that died in a blast had it easiest...many people died from radiation poisiing, and still dying! Generations and generations of people are gonna be deformed....what are you talking about...
Dropping a bomb on Hiroshima...fine, they did it, Japanese got the message, but why did they drop the other one?! what was the point in that one?

Me too but believe me, they turn out badly. We used to have a forum for them- we had to close it.

So probably better just to give an opinion or advice to Mech and not get too much into a vast argument about it.

Well, many of these are good points and as I say, it is getting into a very complex area. Not being a great fan of nukes myself I do not think I would do the defending argument justice.

It's not worth getting into here.

well i think that as long as it remains "civilized" it's good right? I mean so far it's been a legit debate...

...because Japan didn't surrender...we gave them an altimatum(sp?) and they ignored it. The most effective thing we did though was convince them we had many more ready to be deployed when in reality Fat Man was the last one.

Oh dear, this is going to get ugly...

Everyone always talks about 'lives' and human life, etc..

What about our planet? y'know, the place we have to live?

Does anyone ever think of long term effects?

Also, what about those children in Russia (was it there?) Who's parents suffered from the effects of radiation, now they wont live past their teens.

fair enough.

It is amazing how ignorant they were about radiation in Russia, actually. There are a lot of places that will be uninhabitable for a long time there, far more than in the west.

Im not horrible to everyone, just horrible to you j/k

...the effects on our planet our minimal considering the vastness of it. The first fusion bomb had a canopy of only 100 miles.

And the question of the impact on the environment was somethign that plagued the truman administration on weather or not to use them. They believed that a nuke would create a massive hole in the atmosphere, but they soon found out it didn't, and niether do fusion bombs

Oh Comon!

Thousands of innocent people die because of the greed and power-hungry of the west!

That's all nuclear weapons are for, to inflict fear upon other nations!
It's just a threat, it's also, like I pointed out previously, a waste of materials and money.

The U.S wont stay the most powerful nation forever, it's coming to an end.
You know it.

Go Candy baby!!! Damn straight!! oh man, i love you!

Yes nuclear weapons are to inflict fear upon other nations. And yes some may say they are a waste of materials and money, but you can argue that about the aircraft carriers as well, or even about the whole military

My personal view is that the U.S. should remain a super power and that it will but only if we keep up with wanting to be the top military power...but that's another topic

One suspects you might get a TAD irked by 113 when you discover he fervently believes the things you were shocked to see I posted even as possibilities.

Yeah..i know..dont patronise me i read what he said...but him being an american, it is expected...great patriots and all....

There was no intention to patronise you.

well, to throw more gas on the flame...

Nuclear weapsons kick ass, I wish i had one to drop on iowa.

That has a use and a point, a point that is worth the money and time.

Weapons that are, supposedly, never going to be used are pointless..

comon, It's common sense..
Why build a tent when you have a large house, never use it, yet there are people next door who have no home?

It's selfish, that money can be used for things that are more important, and could also save more lives than building nuclear weapons?

Im still amazed what people still believe...weapons are wrong.
Let me just ask you something...people who trained the people to fly a plaine and fly it into the tradecentre....how you feel about them, you shouldnt be angry with them, they were just doing their job, for good money!

Actually, Candy., I had best point out in the name of fairness that nukes are actually VERY cheap. They would spend ten times as much on conventional weaponry, else. Getting rid of nukes won't get rid of the power of the military/industrial complex.

i apologize, i am bit edgy!

Oh God...

(heads for argument bomb shelter)

It wasn't for money.
It was to prove a point, a point America has clearly not caught on to yet.

Hence, this lame thread

It is true that the money invested in nuclear weapons could be put to a "better" use, but i personally like my nukes and want to keep the around. And some may also argue that 12 nimitz class aircraft carrier plus the convention aircraft carriers is just not needed

wait up, I'm gonna be jumping in there withya soon

Oh... bloody hell...

(goes to lowest level of shelter)

You two just declared a nuclear war, you know that?

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAA thats so true!

oh shit, we have....oh poo! ah well.....you can watch whats going on from down there Ushgarak.

the military develops these.. corporations dont quite just make them and sell them... but i get the point and i wouldnt because if i was that talented theres plenty of other places i could work for good money

CandyKoRn

Oh Comon!

Thousands of innocent people die because of the greed and power-hungry of the west!

That's all nuclear weapons are for, to inflict fear upon other nations!
It's just a threat, it's also, like I pointed out previously, a waste of materials and money.

The U.S wont stay the most powerful nation forever, it's coming to an end.
You know it.


First off, as to the 'greed and power' of the West...I would address Britian's transgressions against Ireland-they made 2nd class citizens out of the irish and treated them like shit and repaid them with whiskey instead of the money they needed to support their families. Not to mention their exploits in Biafra...

France occupied Indochina before the Vietnam war, tryig to make it another France with their art and religion and culture...not to mention their calculated interference in Iraq beause of their oil field deal they were close to completing befre the war happened. And they say that BUSH is the only one who wants the oil? Mercie,mon frer.....

And as well, the East and West Indies Dutch engaged in slave trade....so since Europe is technically considered the West, you
guys are guilty of a few faux pas yourselves.

Conversely-America is NOT responsible for the suicidal mindset of the Middle East-the Persian Muslims misinterpreted the Qu'Ran by trying to learn the verses in Arabic, a language they could not speak-and thusly corrupted Islam by injecting this 'Holy War" thing-and if you were a woman living under Taliban rule, with the threat of beatings and death just around the corner, then maybe YOUR views would change about who really is corrupt. They have to be stopped, beause if we don't fight them now they will get more out of hand later...3,000 people on 9-11 were considered 'innocent' as well, and the Taliban should have thought about it before they attacked...their decimation is their own fault.

Ushgarak is right-everyone has their own security to think about, and while I wouldn't personally work in a nuke factory, I would NOT criticize someone who made the choice to do it. It's their choice.

It's kind of like having a corrupt Police Force.

It doesn't make it right for the cops to be corrupt, but at least the government knows where the enemy is, and can control it to a certain extent. The corrupt cops generally pray on the criminal element, and decent members of society are left to their own devices.

At least if countries like the US are the ones holding the weapons, there is less chance that the rest of the world will war with each other, fearing a US intervention.

So yes, I would build the bombs. They are a necessary evil.

Well some people may be glad to hear I don't fancy my chances any more, as its been a week and still no word.

Here's my thoughts... the company is virtually owned by the British Military and they are involved with the design to break-down of the weapons. They don't make the decision about quantity's made at all and the feeling I got from the interview was the company's main aim is to build, maintain and destroy these things in the safest manner possible.

They are really heavily involved in the de-commisioning of the weapons too, and in fact, the components I was asked to asses during my interview were part of a production line designed for stripping the weapons safely! They even run a world-wide siesmic watch to make sure nobody is testing nukes is secret.

While the British Government and Military feel a need for a stock of nuclear weapons, somebody will have to make them, period. And while this isn't a happy task, how better to quash our fears for safety than to be involved and make sure the task is undertaken properly.

In conclusion, my reasons for wanting the job are purely selfish, good money, good career development programme etc. But I'd like to point out that I wouldn't except a job from a company working for pure sales volume with no thought into what damage their product will have on civilisation.

I agree with that one, Sir R Deniro-

No police force is totally w\o corruption-but if you have a force that can separate that corruption to a point they can do the job they're sworn to do..well then that's the lesser of the 2 evils-keeping the peace while allowing the rest of society the right of self determination, knowing the consequences if they step out of line. While I admit I fear nukes-they are a necessary evil.
We all know had Russia or Germany beat us to the bomb first...the outcome of WW2 may have been drastically different and the U.S. may have been way different. Part of a nation's security is the ability to retain first strike capability, or at best, the ability to strike back and cause major retaliatory damage, forcing both sides to consider the further escalation of any aggresion at all...

Mech you seem like a nice enough person, and i wish you all the best..i dont necesseraly agree with Nuclear weapons, but....good luck!

Dagons Blade....i dont even know where to start to be honest!!! everyone in the east blames America...tell me one war that America wasnt involved in! And on top of that, America is certany not helping anyone, especially Africa!

I... don't think I'll get involved in this, cos I'll have a shouting match with someone and start offending everyone...


*sits in corner*

I think you have every right to be 'selfish', Mech. You have to look after yourself. I think you would be mad to turn down more money and better career prospects on vagye grounds about the possibly objectionable nature of nuclear weaponmry. I simply do not see any moral dimension to your choice at all.

And... yeah... really, guys , I do not think we should have this whole Europe vs. America, validity or otherwise of terrorist thought, or validity of nuclear weapons argument. VERY bad stuff. Phoe is right- a lot of offence will be taken.

agreed!

like i said before....Good luck mech! With whatever you decide to do!

tell me one war that America wasnt involved in!

Would you rather have lived under the Nazi boot for the last 60 years since WW2 ended? And Japan made sure we were involved-3,000 good men died the morning of Dec 7. 1941 because Japan decided to attack.
The nations of the world worked together, and there is no reason we can't work together NOW.

America is certany not helping anyone, especially Africa!

Somalia, 1993-19 American soldiers dead, 75 wounded, trying to
help feed the local populace while on a misson to arrest Gen. Mohamad Hadid, the warlord\dictator at the time. And America recently sent troops (Marines) to help Charles Taylor out in Liberia. We can't be everywhere at once. And Iraq-is technically part of N. Africa, and we are there, so...but we can't be everywhere at once. I can't lie and make excuses for why we aren't there...and I'm not ashamed to say I don't know why. I don't make the rules.

The UN should be helping us in Iraq as well as the rest of the world,
but they aren't because they can't stop pointing fingers about 'oil' and 'pieces of the pie' long enough to stay united-the UN is a ****in' joke today. There is no reason why they can't be doing the same great job in Iraq that they have been doing in Kosovo. But as long as they continue to bicker and fight, it ain't gonna' happen.

America is certany not helping anyone. No, especially now that the Taliban is crushed, and women no longer walk in fear of beatings or being killed for showing their faces, and we certainly aren't helping now that schools and education are allowed again. ...

South Korea has lived free of invasion for more than 50 years...East and West Germany are united again and communism in the old Bloc is dead because of NATO and UN efforts led by America.

I could go on....but I won't-I have had too many arguments about this before-It's time for the UN to get off their asses, stop feeling sorry for themselves because of 2 world wars, and get out there and start helping!

And it's time that the world stopped hating America, only to turn around and love us once our checkbook comes out-funny how America's image improves when a few bilion dollars are handed out...and the rest of the time, the world hates us.
The Taliban attacks us, it's our fault-we fight back, we get accused of being warmongering bastards wearing Bush uniforms. What the hell are we supposed to do?

At one time or another the rest of the world is going to have to accept repsonsibility for their OWN actions, and stop blaming America for this and that-and a word to all of you in 'the East' as it was put-not ALL Americans are rich, nor do we live in fantastic houses-and not ALL of us have money...look at MY house and you would see that.....

And the rest of you-for a list of America's PAST good deeds-check out an article called "America:The Good Neighbor" by Toronto Times journalist Gordon Sinclair. It might be 30 years old, but it shows what a bunch of unappreciative bastards SOME, not all, nations have been no matter what we did for them. Search word "America The Good Neighbor."

That's all I have to say-I've been in too many arguments about this and have better things to do. And yes I'm American. You love me fine, if not, oh well. But don't blame ALL of us for the ENTIRE problems of the world. The street runs both ways. Peace.

DB

I don't think that the general UK population hates America, we're often united on many issues.

Id never get into a argument about Iraq an the US....

a. This is not what the topic is addressing

b. As citizens we don't know ALL the facts.

so I come to the conclusion you can't argue without all the evidence.

Anyways Mech I agree with the few....
go with the new career if you don't do it someone else will fill the shoes... Good luck and all my best wishes x

we dont hate you....

we hate your dumbass of a president.

I KNOW that my friend, and I exclude England from that list.
And if ANY nation post WW2 has earned the right be called an ally,
it's Britian, and I thank you. Why can't the other nations be as united as WE are? I don't understand somedays I really don't.

And don't worry, not all the Americans hate Britian either-a lot us think highly of you for sticking by and with us, and you gave us all those great TV shows too- The Avengers, Thunderbirds, Fireball XL-5, Benny Hill, and Monty Python!!! Oh, not to mention the coolest spy in the world.
Bond......James Bond

Let the rest of the world fight in the UN-
America and Britian know when it's time to get a job done.

God Bless

DB

Peace indeed! I could respond to all that, and i do have a response, but i promiced that we wont go off the subject, so no point carying on...

sorry...but lol

Well as if other presidents haven't maken mistakes?
To single Bush out, or America in general, is wrong.

And I'll be fair by saying that while he has the guts to lead this war, he HAS run up quite a deficit for the War On Terror, but then again with the type of money being thrown around today...it's a drop in a bucket...and no matter how much or how little, 2 things ya' can't escape are death and taxes

No point indeed if you are going to continue to ***** slap America w\o looking at the whole picture-ya' know we get tired of people hating us until our wallets come out-and we get tired of being expected to help and then getting kicked and clawed and sent home-so please do us both a favor and don't respond to this if your mind is programmed with a pre-selected negative response. Again, peace.

Just be glad you don't have to sleep with the same decisions Bush or any other world leader has to each night. Never say "if I were in his\her shoes..."

WHOA!

Look, ok, please, STOP this debate. It is only going to get worse. Please,. Everyone. Stop. Do not try and get the last word in.

Mech, is there any more to say about this subject?

Nah, closing.