weird thing in interview - possible plot revealing spoiler

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rysdigital
check it out, http://www.code-matrix.net/enewsrevolutions.wmv

there's a cool new Smith quote in it, but -----> my post is about this:

Keanu Reeves says the following;

'the machines finally.. *makes gesture with hands* you know, come together, and fight for their lives.' (?!)

does this strike anything else as odd? i mean, the people in zion are supposed to be fighting for their lives, right?
uh oh, im afraid this reminds me of the comment in the review of the NYC screening about the thing that was "ironic".

forumcrew
in the newest big ass spoiler...

it said that deus ex machina told neo all the humans in zion are part machines.. although i dont trust the spoilers much at all

audioheem
Bah humbug sad

Korri
ya

rysdigital
i haven't read that spoiler entirely, but don't you guys think his wording is weird no expression

forumcrew
we dont have to believe it!!! ahh.. you guys liek how the 3 of us just keep talking in different posts?

Korri
lol

forumcrew
well besides his wording he spelled niobe niobi... which i guess i could understand.. but he also got a few other things wrong.. idont know how u see the movie then get something wrong

rysdigital
i was talking about Keanu's interview. see my first post.

forumcrew
oh ok thought u were talkin about that guys spoiler

Evil Dead
"which i guess i could understand.. but he also got a few other things wrong.. idont know how u see the movie then get something wrong"


yeah....imagine that. You see a movie one time and don't recall all 2hrs 8 min. of it a few weeks later...........or struggle to remember stuff and get stuff wrong.

not saying that guy's spoiler is real........but if that is the only reason you think it can't be, that is just assinine.

rysdigital
err, stop cluttering this thread with bullshit about the damn spoiler.

priestjim
laughing out loud

EyeMakeMovies
back to the interview thing... i just watched it, and i agree that its a little weird.... i guess we'll have to wait and see!

rysdigital
yes

dave123
all of the humans is zion blatently are part machine

firstly, they are partly metal from where the machines modified them, and they are used as software in the matrix

secondly, they have the abillity to learn through wires, something only a machine can do....

this does NOT mean that they are full machine, as i have read in a previous spoiler, yet i will NOT rule out that possibility

rysdigital
but the question was, does the phrase 'the machines are fighting for their lives' make sense to you in the context of the matrix trilogy?

EyeMakeMovies
ok i watched it again, and i think its misleading editing... he could very well have said "its the humans versus the machines, and... they come together to fight for their lives.." something like that... besides, machines dont have "lives"

dave123
unless machines are part human....?

i think it means if smith wins, then the machines may lose

mindbugaling
these are the worst spoilers i have ever seen!!!!!!!!!! im leaving
*takes a pistol to the head

dave123
Wurm: Is everything all right, sir?
Dave: The forum is over, retreat to your exits. Spoilers are coming.
Corrupt: Spoilers?
Dave: Go.

Dave: Hiya, fellas.
It's him.
The Wise One.
Do we proceed?
Yes.
We are still...
...only newbies.
Dave: Hmm. Idiots.

Ginerninja
Maybe thats the point morpheus makes about he fights for us, Neo must lose to Smith in order to stop the Machines. Smith, in beating Neo, becomes powerful enough to completely overrun and infect the matrix, thus destroying it. I always did find it strange the way Morpheus said he fights for us, as Neo has been fighting for them all the way through the trilogy.

dave123
when neo fights smith in the subway, he isnt really fighting for them, more-so himself

but perhaps they will die/something bad if smith is left alive?? assuming he is fighting smith at that time... who knows?

fbg111
You guys should watch the latest Revolutions trailer. Here's what I gather, from both Reloaded and the new Rev trailer.

In Reloaded we learn at Neo and Smith's first confrontation that there is a connection between them. Neo can see Smith in his dreams, and Smith says that something in Neo may have overwrote some of his own code. Regardless how it happened, Smith is now able to replicate himself, like an infinitely replicating internet worm, and there is some connection between Neo and Smith.

Near the end of Reloaded, the Architect explains to Neo that the anomaly (the One) represents an escalating probability of disaster, eg total system crash. But he never elaborated on exactly how such a system crash would occur. This is an important detail. How exactly can the One cause a system crash? All we can do is guess, so let's extrapolate: How does such a crash occur in modern day computers? It can be anything from an infinite loop in response to unexpected user action, to viruses and worms, to instability in complex code, or even a randomly occurring combination of all three.

My guess is, it's the same in the Matrix, despite the Architect's formidable programming skillz. Smith is essentially an infinitely replicating worm, who overwrites both humans and agents at will, and no longer has any constraints (purpose) holding him back as before (as he explains to Neo just before the Burly Brawl). Every time he replicates he adds a little more instability to the system in various ways. For example, what happens when half the Matrix is populated by Smiths, and humans in the Matrix see him overwriting other humans on the sidewalk in broad daylight? Might they begin questioning their reality, and seeing through the Matrix, and if that happens, won't they reject it as all others have who could see through it? Or perhaps the Smith code will simply introduce random code instabilities that cause more and more parts of the Matrix to crash (a la the haunted house in the Animatrix, Beyond).

With the previous the Ones, after their meeting with the Architect they all chose to return to the Source, removing their code from the Matrix and thereby averting this disaster. However, Neo is different. He has inadvertently created the Smith Worm, which is replicating out of control and causing greater and greater system instability in the Matrix. Neo has already created in Smith the cascading disaster that the Architect intended to avoid by having the One return to the Source.

Now the machines face a dilemma they've never faced before. Previously, the plan was always to destroy Zion and force the One to return to the Source before the One created a disaster that would destroy the Matrix, then rebuild Zion and start the process anew. The past Ones always returned to the Source *before* they created the cascading disaster. This time, Neo has created the disaster first. Simply sending Neo back to the Source won't save the Matrix and the Machines from the Smith Worm. The Architect's entire plan has unraveled with the sixth iteration of the One, Neo.

Now we see a brief scene in the latest Revolutions trailer in which We hear the Oracle saying (apparently to Neo) that "if you do not stop him (Smith) tonight, there will be no tomorrow". And in another scene, Neo is standing before a massive hovering spherical machine, and we hear him saying that Smith has grown too powerful for the machines to stop. Neo says that only he can stop Smith. Neo appears to be making a deal with the machines, in which Neo will confront and vanquish Smith for the machines, in return for.... what? We don't know yet, we'll find that out in the movie.

Additionally there are scenes in the Revolutions trailer in which Neo and Trinity are flying their sole hovercraft into an advancing army of Sentinels, yet Neo uses his newfound real-world powers to destroy the Sentinels as they fly past them. This is obviously a course of events the Machines have never considered. Not only do they have the Smith Worm about to destroy the Matrix from the inside, they have the unstoppable Neo destroying them in the real world too. It's no surprise then that, as Keanu says, the Machines are fighting for their lives, on two fronts no less. And none of their careful calculations and planning have prepared them for either of the two enemies they are fighting.

So that, imho, is why Keanu Reaves says the Machines are fighting for their lives. Obviously the humans are too, as we see in the Revolutions trailer that the Machines actually do attack Zion and there is a battle there. But what the final solution and outcome will be, I can't even begin to guess.

dave123
this has nothing to do with you being new, but i never read posts more than 10 lines long, so i'll just agree with ya big grin

GABRIEL05
sounds about right.



'bout time for a sig change.

fbg111
heh, no offense taken. I usually don't make long posts, but I felt I needed be thorough with this one.

FallenForever
dave<you are so lazy, not that im not and, lol luv your profile or whatever it is called under your posts, have you noticed how many people have put things against spoilers in them? i might too.....

but i read his post, and fbg, that makes sense, but it still seems weird to word it like that, saying their "lives". usually you dont says their "lives" when talking about a machine.

fbg111
True. That's probably just Keanu Reeves being Keanu Reeves... wink

FallenForever
lol, hey i like keanu reeves

fbg111
Whoa! Someone told me that Matrix Reloaded is the first movie in which he hasn't said his trademark "Whoa!" yet. I don't dislike him, but I just meant that he probably didn't mean to suggest that machines have "lives" to fight for, saying that "the machines will come together to fight for their very existence" would have been a little too stuffy for him.

Another interesting, unrelated something: the latest Wired Magazine has a short article on the Wachowski bro's. It mentioned that initially, Warner Bro's was considering Kevin Costner for the role of Neo. Blegh, that would have been horrible. As it is, I think Reeves is perfect for the role.

GABRIEL05
oh God if Kevin Costner was "the One" that would be like Pete Townsend being aragorn.

JediHDM
fbg111> i was with you until you said Smith doesn't have purpose (already i can hear people thinking, "Oh god, here goes Jedi with his 'purpose'-crap again...) but everyone in the Matrix, every program that has not returned to the Source, has a purpose for being there. Smith's purpose is TO BE THE ZERO TO NEO'S ONE, THE 'CATACLYSMIC SYSTEM CRASH' leading to Neo's enlightenment (I like the idea Sifer, i will use it more often...). Also, i don't think Keanu saying 'lives' was a misspeak, but i don't think it was actually meant to come out... shifty and i dont think the machines will HAVE to fight a two front battle, cause Neo takes their place in the Matrix, perhaps to stop the Machines from destroying Zion(?!?!)...

burlyman

The Omega
Rys> Maybe what's meant by Keanu's sentence is simply:
That the machines HAVE to come together and FIGHT for THEIR lives. It's usually the humans who do that... The machines are in control?

fbg111
Well, the purpose you speak of is the one that the audience knows about, but Smith doesn't. Smith's purpose as far as the movie plot goes is to change the dynamic of the Matrix, to unravel the Architect's carefully constructed plan. But Smith himself doesn't know that. All he knows is that he used to be an Agent tasked with the purpose of catching hackers, but that Neo took that purpose away from him when he destroyed Smith. So Smith has given himself a purpose, the purpose of exacting revenge upon Neo.



Actually, I think you got that backwards. Neo's enlightenment at the end of Matrix led to Smith becoming the cascading instability that will eventually cause the cataclysmic system crash. Or perhaps I misunderstood you...



That's what I'm wondering too. Will the humans and machines work together to defeat a common enemy, Smith, and in so doing find a way to peacefully and satisfactorily co-exist? According to what burlyman just wrote above, that might be what happens...

JediHDM
im not talking about Neo becoming enlightened to the fact that he is the ONE, i'm talking about real ENLIGHTENMENT, as Sifer says, ascendance...

fbg111
I thought that when Neo returned from death and could see the Matrix at the end of the first movie was his real enlightenment? What else is there?

JediHDM
that was Neo becoming the Anomaly... NOW NEO must become the ONE, the ONE anomaly who can end the control of the matrix, and ascend above the matrix and the real world...ask Sifer, he can explain it better than i...

fbg111
I understand. The One in the real world... hence is real-world powers. It should be an interesting ending, and I for one am glad we only had to wait six months instead of a year or two.

burlyman
sifer> i understand about the ascension but why do smith and neo and trinity have to unite as a trinity.. ?
or is that part of it i havent picked up on

JediHDM
im thinking that either Neo, Trin and Smith or Morpheus unite as "Trinity", or Neo and Smith unite as two parts of the same whole, a Yin and Yang, light and dark, right and wrong, etc...however, (if taken biblically) Neo and Trin are ALREADY united as one person, as they have a love stronger than anything, and have already consumated that love, of which Smith would be the opposing factor to join with...i think it would be a very interesting ending for any of these options to happen, but im not sure if they do or not...I still want Sifer to explain it again, for everyone to read...

Verity
U know what?...Keanu tends to talk half way! I love him to death, but I believe he did that on purpose! There's NO way he is going to give away so much of the movie in an interview! These guys know we r watching! So Keanu is purposely going to mumble and leave us hangin"! I think he meant HUMANS come together w machines to fight for their survival!...I guess we'll know for sure in 10 days! rolling on floor laughing eek!

MC Mike
Those 10 days again...

Dang that's CLOSE! eek! eek! eek!

burlyman
ok jedi smile

burlyman
from the bible:

He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son....

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