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it is sad that LOTR relies soley on it's visual effects. If you take away that. you have NOTHING. Well actually you have a butchard adaptation of a great story.

Of course im just whining about the fact that LOTR could have been so so so much more than it is, What it could have been, Would have went down in history books, but of course every movie could have been better ounce its made. All we have is eye candy and some slight entertainment for us TRUE rpg players. LOTR was actually a large dissapointment on this side of RPG fans. because it relied soley on a life long fan base, and golden eye candy glistend with the greed of holly wood.

I know there are an over abundance of you LOTR fans out there, but you have to face the facts here. Read the books. The stories were destroyed. They went through the story and nit picked what they could use for a budget blockbuster mixed with eye candy, that would be rememberd. It is a briallnt ploy by hollywood to get your money, and take the ranks as a life long franchise.

These movies are so off target from the books, the only plus is they did capture the essence of the trilogy, this is no matter how dark things get faith, nobility, strength, love and everything else that is pure always triumphs over all. fate is also very rare in the movie, its hinted to sometimes with froto and of course aragon, but fate, faith,and love was the main message of the books. however the movies main message is eye candy over substance .

Moving to LOTR forum

Hmm well Rage I can consider myself to be a true Role Player
and I think the movie was very good, you have to make a big difference between the movie and the book, you can almost never create the same character depth and if you should succeed you'd have to make it a very long movie, even longer than it already is.
and they had to simplify the plot, I would have loved to see it follow the books more exact, for the mainstream audience.
and last but not least LOTR does not have TOO MUCH eye-candy
sure they use a lot of CGI and stuff but they use it in right amounts, doing as much as possible without CGI. And without a bit of computer help they would have never been able to recreate that epic athmosphere that surrounds the LOTR settings.


and last but not least I don't see what Role Play has to do with LOTR except that most medieval fantasy RPG's are based on LOTR

Hey dude, here's some food for thought, if all The Lord of the Rings had was a bunch of effects, than The Fellowship of the Ring wouldn't have been nominated for best picture at the Academy awards (not to mention winning the best picture award at the British Oscars) and especially The Tower Towers wouldn't have been nominated, and the films wouldn't be as critically acclaimed as they are.

You can like or dislike the films all you want, but at least make sure your comments are actually accurate, you're quite a bit off about the transition from book to film, they changed only what was needed to be changed, they added what needed to be, they left out what needed to be. And yet they managed to keep the heart of Tolkien's tale intact.

And that's all I have to say about this.

How about this; you're flaming wrong ragesRemorse. LOTR is the high budget film that relies the LEAST on effects to sell itself! The dialogue is there, the drama, the directing. The effects are needed to sell the story, but unlike the latest Sw-films the effects take the backseat to the story, so I'd say you're totally off on this, mate.

True Mah very True

UMMMM NO i read the books I read them, before they were even being thought of being made into movies. This is why i know LOTR is a disgrace. They totally bi-passed the dark atmosphere the books created. The movies settled on a middle ground of fantastical security.

There were very rare momments in the books when you felt that things were going for the better . Tolkiens brlliance understood this. He only gave you security, when hope and faith was all but a gleaming memory. . In the movies there is always a sense of security. You know everything is going to be ok. It might get bad but it will end on a soft pillow of reasurrment. This is bull crap. it destroys the atmosphere that of the LOTR. It was always so dark, and dreary. you knew this mission was a near impossibility.

The book only piled more and more challenges ontop of you to reasurre the impoosible feeling. In the books They traveld and traveld, you always felt as if they were running out of time, due to all the traveling. Then near the end of the second book it looked as if all was going to fall. It was man against evil. Every one had abandend man. It was up to only mans sheer will of survival, and pride that they held the defenses. The elves never came back to halp the humans, this was just another stunt to give you false security that never existed. There WAS no need to include the elves returning to help the humans. The only rational explanition is to give you more security, and a good feeling that things are gonna get better. In the book you never knew if the defensess would hold, it was sheer suspense, anything could happen. they pulled it off. ALL ALONE. this was the crowning masterpiece to the trilogy. that man can over come any impossiblity when we work together in heart. You never felt true escurity untill the return of the king.

And if you rely on academy awards on what movies are good, then you know nothing about movies. Academy awards are judged by a bunch of old people who love hollywood.

and thats all i have to say about that on why LOTR sucked

BYPASSED THE DARK ATMOSPHERE?!?!?!?! WHAT? Madness...

i never felt threatend. there was always somthing to reassure you that things would be okay. i think alot of people mix up suspense with a threatning atmosphere. which is why most people bought this peice of failed poo.

Also, you kind of answer your own point to be honest. How would you know what it will feel like for someone who HASN'T read the books and sits in the cinema watching the film? I will answer for you, you don't

So you obviously KNOW that everything is going to be fine because you have read the damn book. Pointless post.

Oh, if you think LOTR failed, then I would take a look at how much money it has made in the box office, dvd sales, statues etc - I wont even go into how much the book sales have risen since the movie. Not that it didn't sell well before it, because it did...VERY well

hear, hear!

i know, and i pointed that fact out that i was just whining about this movie. If i had never read the books priopr to seeing the movie. i am sure i would have enjoyed them on some level. But i read the book , and was expecting greatness along the lines of the book. instead all i got was a Giant cutscene of a roleplaying video game, with some fantastical glitter sprinkled all over it

That's impossible seen from a technical and practical point of view...Pj's responsability as a director was to be practical, among other things...

well ofcoarse ur gonna feel everything is gonna b alrite and the end of the movie since u know watts gonna transpire. *IDIOT*. i must admit i read da books after i saw FOTR but my friends had advised me to read dem prior to da movies....(im not a real fan of fantasy literature). i agree dat sum elements of da book dat were cut should have been in the movies (like all da singing, da humans with-standing against all odds in unity) but dey still manage to create a true masterpiece.

but in any means, would i b wrong in suggesting u wont b in da cinemas like da rest of us when ROTK gives us n eye full in december?

OOHHH!!!!!!!!!! Careful!........http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/eek.gif

im dun surprised you could can of understood that gooded literaturature there with your so impressive skillz of being abled to speakked in such a good gramatical way --El Toro De Brah

Maybe your on to somthin there buddy. I think you struck gold with your reply. NO, im not going to feel secure just because i know the outcome. Look at the way the characters were changed. Aragon became more of a Great and noble protecter than he truly was. He aquired this with time in the books. You always felt safe with the fellowship near. The way it was expressed in the book, was so different. It was so dark. Even though the fellowship was the best of the best, all through the journey you never felt safe. there was always somthing threatning you. Believe me im able, like alot of human beings to change my perspective"s. I did this many times throught LOTR, and there was never any point were i truly felt like things werent going to work out. At the end of the first movie hope was restored, hope was not restored in the books, it was a question.

But i dun may be wronged here. This is just my dumbed opinioned, so dont bust a *** over it aight. but you is right dey did have dem selve some good singin in dat movie diddnt dey ?

Until someone invents something to look into what your mind sees when you read books, your vision of the movie will always be bleek unless you learn to take a friggin' chill pill and enjoy it for what other peoples visions make it.

Well I read the books several times before the movie was even talked about and I totally disagree with you. There had to be made changes, but PJ made the movies as perfect as they could humanly possibly be.

bleek? no. True? yes. Im sorry that truth hurts.

huh?

i just wanted to say how much i love lord of the rings. i think tolkien was a genius, and whatever you think of peter jackson's work, i think it took a lot of courage to try to film three movies back to back, living in a different country, with a bunch of strangers for several years. that's a huge project. it's hard enough to do one movie, but three? i know i'd never even consider taking on a project like that. i think PJ's version of it gives it a new dimension. it brings the story to life and it helps you visualize what the characters look like. I think PJ did a great job in spite of a few errors such as the elves at helm's deep. and really, the elves at helm's deep added suspense. were the elves going to get slaughtered with the men or were they actually going to make a difference? in spite of the fact that i had read the books, when Frodo got stabbed by the troll in Moria, I thought he had actually died. The ringwraiths were exactly what I had pictured. The movies were amazingly accurate considering Hollywood always butchers movies that are based on books.

well all I can say is taste can differe but I'd like to hear some OBJECTIVE reasons why LOTR sucked Rage. No things like because it didn't give ME the insecure feeling.

Some cold hard facts. Movies can't be rathed on our emotions, atleast not objectively

if you want a rate a movie you give good reasons why it is a good or a bad movie not because of what you think of it.

If you do you must be able to accept that ppl will disagree

(this goes for everyone ofcourse)

I bow to your reply BUL. You have given a very respecatble answer. Pointing out that there is major errors, but a great task was undertaken, with great vision, and limited time in doing so. This is why i say any movie can always be made better after it is made. You are right and i have to agree with you. I will always Yurn for the extra darkness that was included in the writings though, but i guess thats why i have the books

I'm sick of everyone comparing movies too books, the movies are never going to be like books, no matter what the story. They take many completely different aspects and are two different art forms. What makes a book good, won't neccessarily make a movie good. The changes had to be made in order for the movie to make sense and flow.

Also, the special effects that are there had to be there. It in no way over used special effects in any way. If you want an example of overused special effects, go watch The Hulk or Star Wars EP 2, or Matrix.

Lord of the rings in no way failed, they are great movies in their own rights when compared to other films, they will be looked back on with a respect on par with the respect the star wars movies have now.

No, matrix is original, groundbreaking, innovative, creative, thought provoking, and visually astounding. The matrix relies on the story for the use of it's special effects, where as LOTR relies on the special effects to tell it's butchard story.

it's actually the other way around.


The LOTR's story is masterful and eventful. It has alot of relevence to todays world, even though it was written 60 years ago or whatever. The visual effects in LOTR's are used only when necessary.

whatever all the movies are awsome

the only reason it has meaning to modern day problems, is the brilliance behind the writing, not the movie making. The movie making takes away the meaning behind the story. It leaves you with fairy-coated eye candy. every major scene in LOTR leads up to major use of special effects Take away the special effects, you have men in costumes yelling out an unbalanced dialogue, that in only a handfull of ways cohere with the actual inspired story.

The matrix manipulated special effects to an innovative way of movie making. That was inspired by a totally Original story. A story I might add that can relate to many modern day anguishes, or even the human spirit. The matrix used its story to create a totally new way of movie making, and a level that we judge and will forever more judge action/ sci fi movies on this is brilliance, genuouis at work. so yes matrix will live on and be respected just as Lotr sadly will be also

Matrix story is also not that innovating, it's technigques are ok, but all the matrix its story did was search out some coherent filosophical idea's and poored them into a new form, but it aint like they invented their own filosophy. And once you know even a bit about Filosophy you can get all the implemented idea's The Matrix RELIES HEAVILY IF NOT TOTALY ON IT'S EYE CANDY to make it an interesting movie for the general public
cause take away the eye candy and all you have is a BORING movie about things the general public cares very lil for and most youngsters will find VERY VERY VERY BORING

in short Matrix without Eye candy = A basic Filosophy course

ummm NO The fact that they developed a new style of movie making that broke all levels and took all the risks from an inspired story is just great vision, and creativity. That is in a league of its own. MAtrix set movie making history.

Unlike using tired special effects to tell a story in hopes of making a memorable trilogy.

Well, RR, I could not possibly disagree with you more. I think this is one of the most inaccurate accusations ever made and that your idea that the vooks have been 'butchered' is almost hysterical.

Sorry, I just think you are totally and utterly wrong. I cannot put it any differently than that.

The film is a fantastic adapatation of the plot of the book. And a very great majority of true book fans (as PJ himself is) agree.

And the book itself was not particularly well-written... Tolkien was many great things- innovator, imaginer, creator of worlds, but he was never a great writer.

PJ, however, is a great filmmaker.

I also disagree with your assessment of the books as constant suspense- the books are, in fact, very uneven, and I never thought the outcome was ever in doubt.

And let's not get into a Matrix debate here.

No, because frankly, it had no story.

thats all well and fine that you disagree. I took away a different expeirence from the books. I am just voicing an opinon on how i believe the movies totally destroyed the expierence i took away from the books. I make this quite apparent many times. However when people want to bash or attack my opinions. I am up to defend them,but i always make apparent that this is a movie review on my expierence from the books.

no story in the matrix? hmmm,,,, there are possibilities for many, many , many stories wrapped around the already great story that is the matrix.

noone bashed or attacked your opinion

attacking? arguing? it's all the same thing. It's all in good argumenative fun.

good to see your still smiling

any time you dont see me arguing somthing is when im comatosed passed consciousness

I'll keep it in mind rage

hmmm... why? are you plottin on me or somthin?

Well, each and everyone one of us, I'm sure, took away a different experience from the books and from the movie. Like Ush said, it was PJ and his crew's interpretation of a great story. And like many have countless of times pointed out to translate the book into a movie page by page, chapter by chapter would have been... long to say the least.

Even the writers admitted that they had to do some rearranging - take certain scenes and placed them in different parts of the movie, given certain lines to other characters. And in some instances take out certain scenes and characters much to many people's dismay. All to do with the movie flow.

As for the special effects, I think it was well done. PJ used it well to drive the story. We were introduced to characters and places etc that did help move the story along and at the same time building on the characters and their plight.

All in all, I think PJ and his crew did a wonderful job with the movie.

(To digress- I agree with rR that the Matrix is a great movie. The technology used did drive some of the story. D'oh! It's the Matrix!)

... and made film making history ... as did PJ's LOTR

Should really take greater care in my posts!

lol

this is where everyone makes the mistake. the story was in control of the special effects. This is why it was so brilliant, not so much the story, but the way it was made. It was a new style of film making inspired by a story, not action or special effects inspired into a story, like so many believe it to be.

okay i dont know why but i had the strongest feeling there would be some sort of LOTR disser coming on to diss lord of the rings, i had the STRONGEST feeling, of course...all he wants is to rowl the lord of the ring fans up and get the attention he feels he needs and trying to get the best of all of us, well it isnt working with me, now i would LOVE to reply with a long post on how wrong you are, but i feel that i dont need to stoop to your level, so you can get a reaction from me, well normally, i WILL rant to the people who even DARE diss the lord of the rings, but i feel your not worth the ranting, so ill end my post here and say HAPPY NATIONAL LEGOLAS DAY!!!!!!!!!

*Lord of the Rings is kick ass, amazing, awesome, exciting and wonderful movie, and for that...i think my fellow lord of the rings fans, should ALL GIVE ME A HELL YEAH!*

hahaha

I think you misunderstood me, rage. This movie did have mistakes. But it brings the story to life. You read the books to find out what happened, and you watch the movie to see if they portrayed the characters like you did. The movie is meant as an addition to the story, not a replacement. At the same time, the movie is done well enough, someone who sees the movies but doesn't read the book still gets the basic idea of what happened. Like I said, even though I had read the books, the movies still filled me with suspense, fear, darkness, whatever. Yeah. And the time wasn't limited, I was pointing out that those guys/gals had to live with a bunch of total strangers for several years. To be honest, I think you're wrong, but so are the people who flame you for expressing your opinion. I'm sorry if this sounds like a flame to you. Just wanted to set some things straight

It must be great in the world you live in -OrliNElijahsGrl-

See in the real world, life isnt ruled only by a single perspective of an indepenndant opinion. You should try and break free from your ego every ounce and a while. It's a great world out there when you can change perceptions. You say you dont want to go on a rant, and express a long post on how wrong i was. This is because you have convinced yourself that it would bring you to a lower level of rationality, or concsiousness. This is proven in your un nessicary RANT when you include words such as. "stoop" and Level"

Any one who thinks they are at all better than any given human being on any level is nothing more than an ego centric, self acclaimed expert of an imaginary profeesion. This is what drags the whole world down. IGNORANCE. So you un willingly did everything you tried not to do, and also gave more than enough insight into your trypical, and narsicistic personaily. This voids any opinion you have about anything, because the answer is already made up in your closed minded way of thinking. I never went any where near insulting a personal member for voicing an opinion, i only insulted a peice of shit movie. You on the other hand try and belittle my opinion, with an un nessicary post using words Again such as "stoop, and level" I never ounce said this thread was meant to be anything other than my opinion. I dont try and get the best of anyone using covert tactics, as you accuse me of doing. if i want the best of someone in an argument or opininated topic. I make it fully apaperent.

Happy- sorry the lord of the rings is a flamming peice of shit movie day

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Hey ragesRemorse, try reading the Harry Potter books, they are really good, but don't read the fifth one, namely "Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix" it's really irritating and might make you tear the whole book into pieces, as one of the main character is killed by the author, and I think here you will see the living proof of the biggest blunder made by the most popular writer of modern times (NO OFFENCE MEANT).
TOODLES!!!

well i dont read books......well i am right now! Mj's the magic and the madness! LOL....im interested! thats a 1st....
neways its different for people who havnt read the books!
...but i thought both movies was so good....

I agree with rR when he says most of the dark athmosphere was lost in the film but I yet think it's a great film and I really enjoyed it.
Special effects were imo also ok

I think you should stop slagging the films off so much. I admire and respect Peter Jackson for attempting (and making a bloody good job) of Tolkien's epic.

Also, it is an interpretation - got that? INTERPRETATION - so it can be expected that things are changed/edited - I mean, who really cares that much if the elves weren't meant to be at Helms deep or that Haldir wasn't meant to die? Well, alright, it was a surprise, it wasn't expected at all, but it certainly did NOT ruin the story line.

I still think the films are wonderful (although I will always prefer the books tenfold) and feel that the films do not rely completely on the visual effects - the music, acting and the fact that everybody worked so hard to make this film enjoyable for everybody, not just us, that have read the books. Remember, this film was meant to attract a wider target audience than JUST people that have read the books. Plus, there is the whole problem with time - although I would be more than happy to watch a 9 hour version of 'The Fellowship of the Ring', I'm sure there are people out there who don't - they probably value their rears more than that and wish them to have SOME feeling when the leave the cinema!

That's what I have to say, if you disagree with it, then fine by me, but that is my opinion - Peter jackson has made a wonderful job of the films.

Totally agree with that - although not as dark as the books, there is no denying the dark themes in the films. Still not convinced? I DARE you to say that about the films in public are The Return of the King is released.

If you don't get pelted with rocks by random LOTR fans, you'll be very very lucky indeed.

I don't understand how ANYONE can say the dark atmosphere is gone from the movies - Madness.

Not gone but I think (my opinion) that it was espressed better in the books, so I said "lost". Too few Nazgul scenes
But the music brought most of the athmosphere back... amazing work, Shore

There is only one movie I have watched that has managed to keep the dark atmosphere as much as the book did (if not darker) and that is Blade Runner. I think to gain the dark atmosphere the books provide is a near impossible task because EVERYONE interprets things differently.

you all have made some very enlightening points that are gonna make me watch these movies again with a more open mind. you are right about the hard work by the entire production team trying to bring somthing special to everyone. that is admirable at the very least. I had just always been such a loyal fan to the books, i think i looked for everything wrong in the films.

hey rages from what i read, i see you think that the special effects took away the essence of the movie.

i have a point to add....................why oh why on earth didn't someone make LOTR into a movie before( not the cartoon either)????
My guess is that visual effects available at the time would have robbed the viewers of the wonders of middle earth.
I give lots of props to PJ for having the balls to take on the movie.

Yesssssss there are many discrepancies between the book and movie but when making a movie u cant always capture the suspense of a book.

It would have taken about 2-3 days to properly read LOTR.......so suspense builds, ur imagination begins to create the characters in ur head, ur wondering what will happen next.........u cant get that anywhere else than a book.

Movies on the other hand is instant gratification. .....A movie based on a book cant be as long as the book. U cant afford to go into the detail covered in words. I think they would have tried to make the movie as close to the book as possible. But audiences today already b|tch about a movie being 2+ hrs. I think a full adaptation of lotr on screen would have been nearly 20 hrs of film.( that was extensively edited too)

People today dont have that type of patience ( this is a general statement......we like to read........but look someone here just posted that they dont READ BOOKS!!.......what does that say bout the people out there!??!)

ragesRemorse-
By the looks of things, nothing can seem to compare with the Matrix, huh?

fini-
Cool post. Can you just imagine sitting through a page by page, scene bu scene translation of the book into film

A LOTR movie marathon

I think you're right, fini
I'd love to sit in the cinema for 15 or 18 hours to watch lotr, but I think that would be nonsense.

what the **** is wrong with you??? are you mental? The movies are awesome, your not! RPG fans like i think it is really cool. The movie was made really well and if you don't think that than **** you!

You must realise that in order to tell the whole story of these films the movies would be 5 hours long. I have read the books and think they are some of best stories ever told, And the films have definatley done the books justice.
They have limited time and funds to make a movie out of a story this size and capture all the aspects, So in my opinon i think the movies are excellent, they capture the mane gist of the story, sure they give it a little hollywood touch such as Dwarf tossing And added storyline for charrecters that were were breif in the books.
But you have to think they made had to make theses films not only for the true fan's but also for the any joe shmoe who has no idea what the story is about.
I give the first two films an A , And i think the final film will be an AAA+..

Pretty much summed it up there.

OoOoOoO

Great post, meangreen

Yes except the "retard" bit

orlielijahsgirl im not on rageremorses side, because lotr was miles better than matrix will ever be and the films are amazing but you are an egotisticl bi*tch sometimes saying you wont lower yourself to our standards or in other words ur better than us, im expecting backlash from everyone here, but as it is said i am allowed my own opinion

i still love ya though, sorry about that last post, i was pissed off about something