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I was wondering why Obi Wan didn't use Force-Speed to run through the shuttering laser blinds that held him back from assisting Qui Gon?

If he had then he could have saved his masters life.

this was already answered a while ago on starwars.com, it was explained as something like OB-1 was alreadt tired and somesort

Hmmm, but not too tired to leap from the lower platform to the upper.

Just to tired to assist his master, not buying that one...

I always hoped that Obi-Wan would make it past the forcefield but everytime he doesn't.

Even if you fastforward it, he doesn't
Well, that was the explanation of the jediconsil of starwars.com
so you HAVE to buy it

They can actually be wrong, but what they say is normally a good indication.

It;s not unreasonable that he used a lot of his strength to make that jump and was not strong enough to speed through the gates. After all, he WOULD have done if he could.

But would he? I would have thought he'd have to be terribly exausted to do so.

Why do we have to buy it yerssot? It's hardly canon now is it...

Wel, it is the only +/- official answer we have.
You must know that QGJ swet like a horse for a 5 minute battle with Maul, what must that give with Dual Of The Fates?

Hmmm, I suppose so, but I stil don't like it.

I always thought it was too dangerous for him to use it.

At the start of TPM Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon use it to escape. They are running away from danger. But if Obi-Wan had used it in the battle then he would have been heading straight into danger i.e Maul, at an incredible speed. It wouldn't have been hard for Maul to kill him.

Plus there was that great pit which he could have easily gone over. Then there was the energy gates which could have killed him if they shut at the wrong time.

And Jedi are only supposed to use the force for defence, not attack.

I think it's just a case of knowing when it's safe to use it. Neither Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan used it in the swamps when they were trying to escape the battle droids, probably because they didn't know where they were going.

Now THAT I can buy!!! Thanks KJ.

in support of kj's response the starwars.com response was that the force rush was to innacuarte to use in such a confined space, particularly with the pit and shields etc. apart from this film has the force rush been used anywhere else, can't think of anywhere.

No, we only saw it that ine time in the escape from the Droidekas

For what it's worth, I didn't really like the Force-Speed thing.

Because they did it only one time, you don't know enough about it

No, because it seemed "cheesy" (a word I'm getting fed up of).

It was more comic superhero than Star Wars.

I always liked it for the SNES in ESB when Luke can use the force to fly. But then they took it out for ROTJ!

I don't really like Jedi having superpowers.

Really? I actually think that they are not powerful enough. I wanted it to take a little more than maybe 15 guys firing lasers at a Jedi at once to take him out (prophesizing for AOTC).

I don't know why I don't like it. It just seems too "X-men". I'd rather they were just great with a lightsabre.

I all of those Force powers. They add more depth to the story.

I just thought they were too flashy.

I think they are just fine so long as they are used in moderation. Right now they are still distinct from superhero powers because they aren't using their flashier powers every second of every day; they are obviously not casual things.

It raises more questions than answers though.

I think it is ok to leave some thing like that in an uncertain area. We know they have powers; we know they can't use them all the time; that's all we need for the films.

Moderation is the best way to go for the next 2 movies.

And it takes away some of the passiveness of the Jedi. They don't use the force to attack but they spent ages mastering these combat techniques.

THat is a seperate syndrome. I don;t you should take that line from Yoda so literally. He means they never use the Force in an overtly aggressive way; seriously dangerous combat abilities are obviously part of basic Jedi life.

If the Jedi DID use the force in an overly aggresive way then they would be tempted by the Dark Side.

Jedi don't use the force to attack.


And they are still spending years and years mastering all these techniques.

Jedi are a contradiction anyway. They are passive and hippyish but they all carry the most lethal weapon around. You can understand that it's for defense but they don't need all these superpowers as well.

I rather think they do actually., Without them they cannot defend the Galaxy as is their job. I think it;s part of their basic point. Merely aqn evolution of the Knight in Shining Armour.

I think the Force and the Super-powers are a package deal.

Well I don't like it. With all these powers you wonder how any of them could have been killed in the Clone Wars.

How are you going to defence yourself?
It is the most leathal weapon around but it is because they and no-one else use that weapon, it is their trademark, Annakin saw directly that QGJ was a Jedi

Exactly. No need for superpowers then. And I'm really talking about AOTC stuff like Mace making his saber move with his mind and killing lots of people with it. Just use your hands!

How would you prefer for them to be? Just knights with "laserswords?"

Hey, ithat Windu thing isn't confirmed. Besides, even if it is in, once you accept you have to fight then surely you need to know how to fight as hard as you can with the tools you have available? Othwrwise you may as well not bother.

Quite how the Jedi are wiped out IS an intriguing prospect...

That sounds like a book in the eu: the crystal star, does anyone confirmes?

Once I read Crystal Star I'll get back to you.

I have a problem with the jedi only use their powers for defense, not attack, at the end of tpm it looked like ob1 and qgj were doing all the attacking while Maul was doing all the defending, in esb, Luke strikes Vader first I think and Luke tries to strike down the emperoer in rotj, perhaps its the Sith who use the force as defense, they're the ones always being attacked.

It seems to me to be a case of the best form of defense is to attack!

Yes I would. There was nothing wrong with the powers they had in the OT.

OB1 and GQJ were in a FIGHT!!! If you don't do anything else but defend you are going to get killed, you don't want that now do you??
Luke DID stroke first, but wasn't Vader the first one to ignite his sabre? Any way, it is not about that, defence means: don't storm up to a guy and cut him open, first try to talk; but against a Sith that is difficult.
Luke also stroke at the emperor, but watch the movie and you'll see that the emperor is trying to get Luke to the Dark Side, and Lukes gets angry with him and strikes.

Yerssot is right. QGJ and Obi didn;t pick the fight with Maul. But once battle was joined, they have to fight all the way!" No point going half-hearted,.

Like I said, don;t take Yoda's comment so literally!

You should know by now that EVERYBODY in the movie has a certain point of view, this togather with there own interpretations of stuff.

Yoda's comment just meant that you don't attack innocent people or lose it and go mad. Anakin, you naughty boy.

Obi-wan didn't use his speed to get to Qui-Gon because he's a selfish prick.

That's the only thing I can think of! Ob1 was pissed because Qui-Gon chose Anikan over him. So he thought, "Screw this guy! I'm gonna let him die!"

I bet to put Qui-Gons creamation fire out, Obi-wan peed on the ashes!

about why not using the force rush I agree with king jedi and tomacco dude do something for a change
ob1 devoted his life to serve the force and the republic so did qui-gon jinn. ob1 honoured qui-gon jinn and did all he could to help him

(btw your idea makes no sence
why would ob1 scream like hell when qui-gon was killed there was no-one there to fake for just him and dm and the other thing is he wouldn't got all pumped up to killin' dm if he didn't give a damn about qui-gon)

Good said F!!

And btw, the grandmaster himself: GL told us this when someone asked it in the JC on starwars.com
He was tired! He fought DM and he force-jumped; if he would run he would be too tired and he could be shred to pieces with that red thing poping up

I don;t think To was being 100% serious there... I think the 'he was knackered' explanation is the generally accepted thing now.

Of course i wasn't being serious.

he wasn't knackered, the force rush is to innacurate a skill to use, he might have run into the laser doors, he didn't seem to tired after doing it the first time.

Lucasfilm officially says knackered; seems to fit; that'll be what is accepted.

That was said months ago! Why would anybody listen now?

He wasn't too tired to fight Maul in the most ferocious fight we've seen. The official site isn't cannon anyway.

also not the quote they gave ?

Eh?

you say the site isn't cannon, but what about the quote?

Which quote, yerssot?

the quote thay gave why he didn't use the force-speed

Sigh... tell us WHICH quote, yerss! You can;t expect KJ to answer about something so vague!

THE QUOTE OF STARWARS.COM ABOUT THIS THREAD!
IT'S ALREADY ANSWERED YOU KNOW???

Starwars.com? I am sorry, didn't KJ just SAY that the site isn't canon?

but the quote than??? that's cannon I think

Ok, NOW tell us where the quote is FROM!!! Because if you can ONLY say 'sw.com' then KJ has ALREADY said it is not canon!

'ask the JediCouncil' and chill, I'm searching!

here it is: http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/steve/askjc20001211.html

Sigh... you won;t get anywhere with KJ with that. He just said the site was non-canonical and you give him something FROM the site. To impress him you will have to either prove that the site IS canonical (which it isn't), or give a non-site quote, or use site info (which is normally accurate) in support of a broader argument.

it's about the quote, not about WHERE it is.

No where it is is actually very important because it was created specifically for that site, and is as uncanonical as anything else on that site.

but the quote is black-on-white there

Ush leave it, we can't win.

So? It's ALL black-on-white, yerssot, it doesn't change anything!

KJ, the boy HAS to be taught some sense...

Look, it doesn't matter how clearly it is presented, yerssot. Canon is a very narrow definiton. Unless you can get it from GL, or Lucasfilm's production and continuity department, it counts for nothing.

boy, you guys sure knows how to start a fight out of small things

Lucasfilm also talked about the dissappearance of DV, so what about that???

Yerssot, if that statement was canonical, there would BE no argument, because I would have won it! As it is, all it has ever done is add more weight to my case.

Mah, this isn;t an argument, it's an education...

The Official Site is not cannon. It is still the closest we thing we have to cannon to check things out but IT'S NOT CANNON!!!!

I used to think it was but some people on this board convinced me it wasn't.

Mind, you, I DO hear some rumours that the C&P people are extending canon to include the EU... shudder...

in the voice of OB1:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

But more on that in another thread once I have some more info.

Anyone else got any on-topic comments?

yes:
if you want to know the thruth (and you know it's right )
go to sw.com

Something more relevant than that please...

Will we see this in Episode2? I hope not.

One of the select shots indicated that speed would be used.

The very first one?

Sorry, I am a but sketchy on select shots.

I saw a little movie with OB1 and Anakin running with a bluescreen, though this is not an indication for the force-speed

The very first select showed Anakin running towards the new digital cameras.

he didn't use the force speed that's for sure

why?

that's an open question for us

and I like it to be an open question

it allows you to think further on what the movies do

if you ask ppl to explain the star wars saga as they say it you will always have different stories

why?

because star wars has these kind of open questions that allow you to make up your own opinion about things

still you don't have to assume too much or crazy things yet still
I think it's cool to assume these things

and drop it unless someone comes up with anwser that we all can except, which imo will never happen, we will always look at it in different ways and that's good

remember that the star wars saga is one of the best ferrie tails ever written (atleast imo)

so quit it plz

Quit what? Discussing Star Wars? That's why were here.

I'm here to learn and collect knowledge from the greatest minds all over the world.

and I stick to my point I read on sw.com; it's a good reply of them

starwars.com sucks

I thought that was what we were doing by discussing it.

We could all set around thinking about it on our own but it is much more fun to discuss it as a group, get other peoples point of view.

And it is great to be able to share and discuss those opinions with others.

Why bother having a discussion forum then? We come together to discuss Star Wars. You are of course entitled to your opinion, however the comments you make above are yours, let others express theres. IMHO-OC.....

No one`s gonna choose my opinion but me. So forums are healthy things, thank s for the opportunity to think for one self.

Exactly!

Now, are we getting back on topic or are we putting this one to bed?

we are still ontopic; I thought.
There was an explaneation on sw.com and than To said that it sucked and Rat replied to something Fire said...

The explanation at sw.com didn't make any sense. The reasons I and a few others gave were mutch better.

from your point of view...

and what were they? I can't remember them actually

Read the beginning of the thread.
Obi-Wan didn't use it because it was too dangerous. He'd be running straight into either the doors,the pit or even worse- Maul.

I am to lazy...
BUT if you look at his face you see he swet like hell, so being tired is still good

That's probably the best reason I've hjeard ever KJ, nice...

I don't see what's wrong with the SW.com theory. And Jedi have perfect timing; I think Obi-Wan would have been safe enough.

That was my original point, but they had been battling for a while, Obi-Wan was breathing hard. Perhaps he didn't feel confident enough to make the charge, and it probably cost the life of his master...

Well, a mix of all of it then, I suppose. Hindsight is always a good judge, of course!

with the normal running he could stop whitin a metre...
AND he saw the beams allready, so he could stop in time...
why not with the Force-speed?

No he couldn't. Watch the scene again. When the doors close he almost slides across the floor because he's trying so hard to stop.
There is NO WAY he could use the force speed and then stop in time for either the doors or the pit. He barely manages to stop as it is.

But more importantly there is Maul. Jedi have good reflexes but so have Sith. Obi-Wan would be running straight into a lightsabre fight which probably isn't the smartest move. When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon use the force speed on the ship they are running AWAY from danger. Not straight into it.

Another question is, why didn't Qui-Gon use it when he landed on Naboo to get away from the droid tanks? The only reason I've heard that's beleivable is that he didn't know where he was going and he was on dangerous ground. He had to step carefully because he was running trough a swamp.

So basically the force-speed is good to get away from danger but not to run into it.

The "Obi-Wan was too tired" idea doesn't work because he still managed to defeat Maul and during that fight he was doing summersaults and jumped out of the pit.


But this is one of the reasons I didn't like the new Jedi powers.

there are things you can do to stop quickly: smacking in the wall for one...

The reason QGJ didn't used it while being chased by the tanks was because he didn't saw what was on the ground and he had to evade the trees and stuff.

If you look at him he looks angry, which gave him the strength to kill him

That's exactly what I'm saying. Qui-Gon didn't use it because it was too dangerous and that's the same reason Obi-Wan didn't use it.

You think he should have ran into the wall to stop himself?

that's one way to stop running, I mean, he is a Jedi and he should also now how to stop in the right way

mmm.....you should crash into an energy door to stop yourself from running. That makes sense! It's getting silly.

Qui-Gon didn;t 'use; speed to run away from the tanks on Naboo because it is celar that it is not something that you can use ALL the time, just in short bursts. Using the Force seems to take it out of you.

Likewise, Obi-Wan had just executed a HUGE Force-powered leap and needed to recover in THAT sense. It didn't mean that he was not physically capable enough to fight Maul, in any sense.

Meanwhile, the fight had moved away from the entrance to the energy shields by the time they had opened the second time. He could have safely darted in, perfectly safe from Maul.

No he couldn't. I don't even know why this is still an issue. It's so obvious that it was far too dangerous to use something like that during the battle.

The fight hadn't moved anywhere. There were still the three dangers. The energy doors, the pit and Maul.

Why teach the Force-speed if you can't stop it right???

Maul and Qui-Gon had moved to the side. he was not a problem. And his Jedi sense would allow him to take care of the other two problems.

It's still an issue because your argument is entirely unconvincing

It's far more convincing that "he was too tired".

It's only you two who seem to have a problem with it.

Put yourself in Obi-Wans shoes. Your in the middle of a fight. In front of you are large enrgy doors which not even a lightsabre can cut through. Beyond that there is a huge pit. Then you have a Sith with a double ended lightsabre who's intent on killing you.

Would you really use force-speed to charge into that situation? No way.

Ush, Maul was a very big problem. He already managed time and again to fight off both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. It would have been so easy for him to kill Obi-Wan if he was charging at him with force-speed.

And your making it sound like Jedi are invincible because of there senses. As if other dangers don't matter because they'll be able to avoid it or get out of any situation. And if you beleive that then there is no point continuing this because it's silly.

Well, if nothing can penatrate that, why not stick your lightsabre in it? That will stop you than.

He didn't had to worry about Maul, for the reason Ush said: he was bussy with QGJ, AND the pit-stuff? he could always jump over it!

It';s not only us two. We have had the most official explanation we are ever going to get. If it is flawed, it is only as falwed as your tehroy.

Maul was NOT near the doors at the time. In fact, Qui-Gon was between Obi-Wan and Maul. There is no way Maul could have cut Obi-Wan down, and that's assuming that Obi-Wan would have been totally unable to block while on the move. After all, the run into combat all the time duting the fight earlier.

And YES I would have rushed in there, because I know that I have perfect timing and my amster needs me! Obi-Wan is also brash and hasty. The only possible reason that I can think of to explain why Obi-Wan did not run in is because he COULD NOT, not because it was dangerous.

I'm not saying that they can magically get out of any siutation. Bit I am saying they are cetsainly capable of the timing required to run in at high speed and stop in time.

So I feel my argument to be perfectly valid. You cannot prove that your explanation is any more credible than the offiical one. Both are debatable. Whilw we may never know for sure, I will happily go with the official one, thanks.

Yerssot your argument is getting more and more rediculous.

The ONLY explanation as far as I'm concerned is that it was too dangerous.

Well, you think it's rediculous, I'm only saying which stuff I would do if I couldn't stop (and a trained Jedi would know how to stop!)
and remind you that you can always jump over the pit!

If you have to jump over the pit then you shouldn't be using force-speed.

That was if you can't stop running! But it would be rediculous that a Jedi can do the Force-speed but can't stop right

I never said he couldn't stop right.

I'm saying that this was completly different circumstances. He'd be flying straight into Maul, the pit or the doors! It's not like using it to escape down an empty corridor.

I think you don't read my posts!

Maul: QGJ was fighting him so he is no problem
the pit: he could jump over it
the doors: why can't he stop correct???? he is trained in using the Force!

If I were in Obi-wans shoes, I'd speed run the other direction! Maybe to go get a pizza, or something

*smacks To*
you see? even To would use the Force-speed

WRONG, Qui-Gon had been fighting him from the start and he still managed to fight Obi-Wan as well. Maul had NO problem fighting two Jedi at once as you saw all through the fight. Saying Maul was pre-occupied with Qui-Gon so he couldn't fight Obi-Wan is nonsense. He managed to fight both of them very well before.



Why should he have to? If you have to jump over the pit then YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING FORCE-SPEED!


The doors were solid. Not even a lightsabre could cut through them. That means they were dangerous. Plus, the were close together and opened and closed fast. WATCH THE SCENE! Obi-Wan is running normally but when the doors close he slides on the floor because he is trying so hard to stop. He barley stopped as it was. There is NO way he would be able to stop if he was using force-speed.

I'll say again: the fight had moved away from the dfoors and QGJ was between Obi-Wan and Maul. Maul was no risk. And AGAIN., the Jedi had been running into combat all the way through the fight. As one of the bases of our argument is that they can time their moves at speed perfectly well, of they could run in before they could run in again. And that's onlt if Maul had been in a position to hurt Obi-Wan if he ran through, which he wasn't.

No one would use force speed to charge into that fight. It would be stupid.

Watch the scene again!!!! Obi-Wan finds it hard to stop as it is. Jedi aren't perfect! There is absolutley NO WAY that you could use force-speed to run over what was a very short distance and stop in time. You only have to look at the one time we have seen them use it to realise that it doesn't make any sense.

I don't know how clear I can make it. Look on some other forums for similar topics and they all agree.

Of course hw would have stopped in time. He was no amateur. He stopped as fast as possible as it was, he would also have stopped as fat as possible if he was moving at high speed. He wouldn't have NEEDED to stop at high speed.

Why NOT use Force speed to charge in? Get into the fight as quickly as possible, that's the way. They run and charge in, why not speed in?

I again maintain that the ONLY circumtance under which Obi-Wan would not have charged in was if he COULD not, it ebing merely dangerous would make no difference. As it is, there are a dozen ways he could have speeded in safely. Any why not jump the pit as well? Anything to be IN there! Anything betternthan being trapped in the sodding fields! No. He did not use speed because he could not at that point.

I don;t know what you mean about looking to toher topics and they all agree.

What I don;t get is that you have presented an argmument that can be debated, but then assume that it is utterly right and annot be contradicted. Where as the official explanation, which is just as good, is apparently 'obviously' wrong just because you don't like it very much.

The truth is that we will never know why Obi-Wan didn;t use speed. It is not explained in film and in the end is down to speculatiopn. Now the official people have given an official explanation that is not so ludicrous as to be dismissed out of hand, and your criticise me for accepting that and not your own at least equally flawed theory.

Well, I am going to accept the official explanation and so will most people.

I think you'll find that most people agree with me. And it's not MY theory. I got it from Jedinet. Until the i'd never even thought about this.

But after hearing the "he was too tired" explanation and the "it was too dangerous" one, there is only ONE explanation as far as I'm concerned. It's the only one that makes sense and MOST topics about this on other boards say the same. You and Yerssot are the only two people I've ever seen who has a problem with it.

I'm not trying to convince you I'm right. Beleive what you like. But don't try and pick holes in it and say it's "entirley unconvincing" when it is.

Actually, I think you won't find most people agree with you. I think you will find most people don't care, and those that do will find little to chose between the two.

It is your arguments that are unconvincing, not the theory itself. The idea that he was asking to be killed my Maul if he ran in there simply does not scan.

look at OB1's face when he hangs on the walkway when he pulls himself back on it, you get a close-up of his face, and he is swetting... maybe an indication that he is tired?

And in any case, if speeding out of the gate walkway was too dangerous, what about speeding INTO it? Why did he not speed down half or three quarters of it? He only needed to be a split second faster and he would have been through, and there is no threat from Maul and the it INSIDE the corridor, and he would have been too fast for the gates to be a problem!

No. He COULD not do it. That is the only feasible reason for him not to have done it; not any danger invovled.

Listen, believe what you like. I know I'm right and so do all the other people from other boards who say the EXACT same thing. If you think there was "no danger" then you need you're head read and I can't help with that. Sorry.

And since you've got rediculous with "it's your arguments that unconvincing, not the theory itself" (which is the same thing) I've decided to leave this one. So find someone else to argue with. I'm off to force-speed my way through energy doors!

KJ, you gave your evidence why your theory was correct, we posted stuff that explained all those stuff. Leaving nothing behind I think, and than you have the theory that I accept that comes from the second best official source: sw.com......

No. There is STILL only one explanation.

But I don't want to talk about this anymore.

ofcourse there is only one and only one explanation that is correct, which one? A third perhaps?

Okay, so we now seem to have de-generated to cat fighting over different answers.

I started this one and so I'm fishing it.

Thank you all for your input, it was all gratefully recieved.

Whizz, bang, whoosh and we're outta here!!!