What happend to Neo the previous 5 times?

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ragesRemorse
What happened yo Neo"s physical body the previous five times he chose the other door? What happend to every one in the physical world. How can time just stop and repeat itself.

MC Mike
He trained the 23 people of Zion to do what they do... remember how Morpheus said something on the lines of "In the beginning, one man had the power to change the Matrix as he saw fit. Then it was prophesized he would return. I think he's you... blablabla..."

Then he just died of old age in Zion probably.

AliasNeo15
You dont even know if that was the case, maybe the Architect was lying the whole time and being a little B**** trying to make Neo go through the wrong door. But I hav no idea. Personally, i dont think he was lying, but i dont want to elaborate on wut my opinions are.

The Omega
What makes you think Neo's predecessors was NEO?

AliasNeo15
ya, thats another thing. I personally think that the Merovingian was the first one ever and when he died, he chose to be a programmer, he "disobeyed" the rules.

The Omega
AliasNeo> If the Merovingian was a previous One, how on Earth did he manage to return to the Matrix when he died in Zion?

Metamorphisis
Omega

I think that Rages was just using Neo, mistakenly, interchangeably for "The One."

AliasNeo15
I dont think he died in Zion, he probably died in the Matrix, or speaking like in Star Wars, maybe he didnt die, but no one could find him or everyone knew what he had become and didnt want anyone else to know what happened to the one. So, he chose to stay in the matrix, roaming forever.

ragesRemorse
So how does the architect disobey time and space? If Neo's physical body does indeed live on. Then that would mean there are two different time lines. The future or the present, and the past. How does the architect go from the future to the past where he confronts Neo about the descion to eigther reload the matrix or save trinity

Metamorphisis
Omega

I have touched this in a thread I've started. The name, Merovingian, is a quasi-biblical reference. The Merovingians were a line of kings who believed that they were the direct descendants of Jesus through the Madam Mary Madelen.

If we make a lot of assumptions on previous versions of the Matrix, the Merovingian could have been the anomaly. I won't go into all detail here, but look at this. If Smith can copy himself over Bain and enter the real world, what stops one of the anomalies from copying their being over a program in the Matrix to live as a rouge God in the Matrix world?

View all of my posts in the following thread for more detail on the theory.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f42/t16820.html

ragesRemorse
but still

So how does the architect disobey time and space? If Neo's physical body does indeed live on. Then that would mean there are two different time lines. The future or the present, and the past. How does the architect go from the future to the past where he confronts Neo about the descion to eigther reload the matrix or save trinity

MC Mike
Meta hits another philisophical chord!

Although I believe all this, how can the Mero be the One if he is a PROGRAM?

Metamorphisis
The Mero isn't Neo, never was. He was a previous version of the one. The prophecy is false in the sense that the person was not reborn, but rather just a anticipated predication.

Neo is "The One" of a line of 6 total One's... This keeps the timeline, proves the prophecy false, and leads to the possibility of the Mero being a previous version of "The One" who choose the Matrix over the real world.

AliasNeo15
well this maybe wut happens when Neo goes to 01 and the machines might get a hold of him, plug him in as a program, and then maybe trinity might get plugged in and have breast implants, go to France for 5 years and wola, u hav Persephone. JK, if that happened, i dont know wut i'd dolaughing out loud

Metamorphisis
And then Mero starts dating his daught Persophone?! What the f**k? OMG!! sick

MC Mike
Wait, you still haven't answered my question...

How can "A ONE" be a program?

Metamorphisis
MC Mike

For full info read the thread I created on the subject:

The Merovingian -- Could he have also been "the One"?!
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f42/t16820.html

But I'll explain briefly:

We found out that someone who has supirior control over the matrix can copy themselves over others inside the matrix when Smith did this to make multiple Smiths.

We then found out that Smith could copy himself over the mind of a real being who is just hacked in the Matrix - and he would still have control over that being when they exited the Matrix. This happened when Smith overtook Bain in Reloaded.

The Merovingian has the ability to be a previous version of "the One" using the same principles. For whatever reason he choose to stay in the matrix. So, he found a way to copy himself over a machine program shell - in effect becoming that program. Now he no longer is "the One" but a machine program. This does not mean he doesn't carry the same code as the one, but it could mean that he does not possess all the abilities. We just simply do not know what he is and isn't capable of....yet.

MC Mike
Great explaination, and thank you. big grin

The Omega

MC Mike
But Omega, that last question takes the fun out of it! stick out tongue

We're here to over-analyze, and our GODerator should encourage that!

Metamorphisis
We don't have the proof yet, even some of us who are argueing it don't believe it -- It's just a possibility that is being entertained for sake of debate. smile

raynor
okaaaaay big grin big grin

ITALIAN926
Previous to coming to this forum, I was under the belief that Neo himself cycled through the process 5 times. I also thought Zion was near the center of the Earth, I thought the year was 2100 something and assumed the only way Neo can have powers in the real world was if IT was also part of the matrix... BOY lemme tell u, Im glad I stumbled upon this site.

They do confuse people though putting critical info in the animatrix and ETM.

One question that nobody can give a good answer to though.... WHY THE HELL did Trinity jump out of a skyscraper the way she did. I hardly believe her mind is stong enough to simply land on here feet after falling 50 stories. stick out tongue

Metamorphisis
Trin knew that if she didn't she was going to be killed by an agent. She had to take the chance and was not concerned about dieing because if she didn't she'd die anyway. Kinda a catch 22..

Zion is near the center of the earth as stated in this convo from M1:



Though, I'm confused how you thought Neo himself cycled through 5 times? The quotes listed below say very clearly otherwise. The time I can understand because I didn't connect that right away, it wasn't until the second or third time that I thought "five previous....oh. Five hundred years! Wow...they're off on their calender." LoL

ITALIAN926
Hey Meta, youre confused as I was. Zion ISNT near the center of the Earth, that was a bad line. When I thought Zion was near the center, it added to my disbelief that it was destroyed 5 times before. In the Animatrix "last flight of the Osiris" its mentioned that Zion is 4 Kilometers beneath the Earths surface.

I thought Neo cycles through bc of the screens showing his reactions, I thought those were the reactions of his previous trips through.. but Im not as ignorant anymore wink

Metamorphisis
True, but, the original script calls for the matrix to be near the center of the earth- I would believe the original script over the animatrix when there are conflicts because not all of the ani-shorts were were writen by the Wakowski's -- Plus, if you read the movie dialogue (the version that has the scene scripts - not just the actors dialogue) You will find this line:




Also the Architect clearly states that they have destroyed Zion, he did not say that there was never any rebuilding of it. But wouldn't you find it odd that there is this pristinely built city near where it's warm just waiting for you to escape the matrix and nobody lives there? I'd think it was a trap from the machines if I didn't have to rebuild it.

Lastly, watch Reloaded and note the design of the city, it spirals downward towards the core - they never said the docking station doors wouldn't ben closer to the surface. And when they are at the celebration in the depths of the city, you see molten rock all around supporting the fact that they are more than 4 miles down at that point.

ITALIAN926
This 10 minute 3d animation was written by the Wbros, I wouldnt know about the cartoon. Why would the script say "The ship proceeds to the core" then Thaddeus says "Oh no, look where we are, whats 4km straight down" Ju: "Zion"

Metamorphisis
That could be the location of the roof and the docking bay doors, but not, necessarilly, the entire city of Zion itself. That is the only explination I can offer you.

The Final Flight of the Osiris:
Directed by: ANDY JONES
Written By: Andy and Larry Wachowski

So it was written by the Bros. - and other than my above explination cannot give a better account for the discrepency. You can find the full transcript at http://www.matrixunplugged.net/scripts.php?script=osiris

ITALIAN926
Meta , you also have to consider what Gravity would be like at the center of the Earth !!! smile

Metamorphisis
Gravity, from my understanding, is related to mass, not depth. The mass of the earth's core is still going to effect us the same. Thus the reason large planets with heavy dense cores like Jupiter have a stronger pull than our planet. Molten Iron is actually not very dense, and thus gravity would not have such an adverse affect.

nox
Okay okay, but think about this:
The other 5 neos also had the physical "neo" form (keanu reeves), if so, what's with the merovingian being one of "the ones" and this could potentially mean neo is a program.

Metamorphisis
Nox

I've posted much on this subject in various threads. Would benifit you to view all of my other threads. Here's the consolidated version:

Neo is not potentially a program unless you believe the MWAM theory (Matrix Within A Matrix) -- I do not.

The Merovingian is possibly one of the ones - but we have no evidence, just speculation and reference.

It started because the Merovingian is one of the oldes, but is implied to be younger by atleast one version of the matrix. Also, Merovingian is a quasi-biblical reference relating to a line of Kings who believed they were direct decendents of Jesus (The anomoly's (thus Neo's) quasi-biblical link) by right of the Madam Mary Madelen (however it's spelled).

It would work like this. The Merovingian, as a human, was an anomaly like Neo. He was corrupted by greed and power and, much like Cypher in M1, choose the Matrix over the real world - especially because he had power there. So he found a way to copy himself, much like Smith does when he copies himself over Bane, who then enters the real world with smith controlling the mind. So the human Merovingian would have copied himself over a machine program and become a rouge resident of the Matrix, and his body would have died. At this end he would only be a program. It assumes a lot about the past matricies and anomalies, so until we are told otherwise by the W. Bros - it doesn't hold much weight but is an interesting theory.

nox
Cool. Wow only 5.5 days left !

ITALIAN926
Dude, if youre at the center of the Earth youre gonna float around !! haha Wheres a physicist when you need one?

Ginerninja
Because it is a program.

Metamorphisis
At the center of the core of the earth, it would, indeed, be Zero, but "near the core" suggests that it's not AT the core, just close enough to keep Zion warm. That means there would still be a good gravitational pull due to the high velocity of the spinning core and the density of the core.

However this is hollywood and simulating dampened gravity in their scenario is a little out of the reach of the movie.

ITALIAN926
Yea, but, would it be regular gravity NEAR the core? Id imagine them walking around as if its the moon.

Metamorphisis
Depends. Maybe it would've been better if Tank said "Mantle of the earth" but that just doesn't flow right... If that were the case, then Zion would be between 4 and 40 miles deep. It's entirely possible that they used the word Core only because it flowed better verbally when, infact, they were refering to the Mantle - which, BTW, many people do not know the difference between them...

ITALIAN926
Well, I think we should make a demand to know how friggen far down the city's supposed to be !!!! This is an important fact and theyre screwin with us !!!! smile

forumcrew
well they tell u how fast they are digging and how long it will take.. using math you can get a rough estimate

Metamorphisis
But you have to know the location too. For instance, if they are digging through at the bottom of a dried up ocean, then their dig will take less time than if they were digging through mainland USA or the Mountains of Tibet...

realworlddreams
anyone c the movie the Core? that has a pretty weird way of lookin at the way the earth is set up. what would the machines do about all the diamonds on the way down? hmm... jus a though (btw, the movie SUX)

Ushgarak
Ok, first of all, we know categorically that the top of Zion is 4km down. Final flight is, definitively, canonical and it is also the same distance/time scales used in Reloaded itself.

We do not know how deep Zion goes but it can not possibly be the near two thousand miles needed for it to be anywhere near the outer core of the planet. That is self-evident.

Therefore I agree the line in M1 must have been metaphorical, not literal. It was probably meant that Zion was near the magma inside the crust, keeping it warm.

Meta, you quote:

"Thaddeus: There is not much time.

Jue: I'll make it.


The ship proceeds to the core
Jue: You know, I peeked.

Thaddeus: So did I.


They kiss
Jue: Goodbye, Thaddeus."



I think that proves this point. Osiris never goes anywhere near the centre of the Earth- nor could it, there would be no tunnels, ot even a solid framework to work with. Therefore that is not what they mean by Core.

Anyway, enough of that as it is not relevant to the subject. What happen to the previous Ones is not explicity known other than that they set up Zion each time and become the source of the Prophecy. One assumed they diue of old age; this is an assumption that cannot be proven.

The Omega

The Unknown
No one knows what happens when an anomaly "fully dies". Maybe since they have the anomaly code, their mind is copied over into a program inside the Matrix or something like that. Perhaps the Merovingian is the only "One" to die inside of the Matrix.

The Omega

The Unknown
As JediHDM said (I think), the anomaly choose the 23 people, and the 24 of them go to the new Zion. The One's mind is changed so that he has no memory of going to the source, and The One is still an anomaly. That starts the legend of the anomaly. Morpheus states in Part 1 that there was a man born in the matrix that could change things at will and freed the first of them.

The Omega

The Unknown
He says "temporary dessimation" of Neo's code. And that doesn't harm Neo, because he chooses 23 new people. Perhaps having the code temporarily removed alters his memories of going to the Architect, and then he chooses the 23 people.

Osiris
What happened to NEO or The One?
i cant understand the question

Metamorphisis
Omega

I know that no old city sewer ways or tunnels reach the core, and I do have a college level education majoring in science and math. My statement was to what the ORIGINAL movie script stated. On top of that, I also stated that it is quite possible that they were using the "Core" loosely for the "Mantle" in terminology. That would place the Docking station doors at 4 or 5 km from the surface, and extend the city close to the mantle of the earth, assuming that the Osiris was above a thin portion of the crust, like a driedup ocean.

Back to subject
Osiris
Nothing happened to Neo - in the relevance of this thread atleast. Neo has only exsisted once, as a person who carries the anomally code. The person who started the thread was mistaken and thought Neo has DONE this 5 times, not that there were 5 different anomalies. The One, is just an anomally that carries a code causing them to reject the Matrix, the others have supposedly gone through simular scenarios, but have chosen the door that leads them to choose the 23 individuals to rebuild Zion.

ITALIAN926
Theres not always an answer.. Trinity couldnt have jumped out the window expecting to live when she hit the ground. Neo would be the only one to do that, and he'd simply fly away. What a pointless thing shes doing shooting to kill the agent as she's falling.

Jumping outve the window was a guaranteed losing situation. If she chose another direction at least there was a CHANCE she could live. It was totally illogical for her to choose what she did. The only thing someone might say is maybe she forgot what floor she was on.

neo_dragon
wait wait wait, hold up. ahem, doesn't the merovingian tell neo "i have survived your predecessors, i will survive you"? that sounds to me, semantically speaking, that the merovingian is NOT identifying himself as a previous one. it is possible, however, that he may have been an agent in a previous matrix.
2nd point, this is a minor one, the merovingian kings minted the coins for the roman empire. and yes, they did claim direct blood kinship to christ.
3rd point, this is something that has been going through my head for awhile now: i think that neo himself is human, but he was imprinted with the programming for the one by the machines as a sort of failsafe (like the system recovery discs you get for windows or even more simply, an installer). the one (at least in the previous matrices) fulfills his purpose by choosing the door or whatever the architect's fascination was at the time, then is one of the first inhabitants of the next version of zion, and presumably he dies. then of course there's a new one that has to be found by the humans (although somehow deep down, i doubt seriously they were as singlemindedly devoted as morpheus is)
last point, i don't believe that the merovingian is actually part of the matrix, nor persephone or the oracle. they are part of the machine mainframe, maybe like virus scan software or something, which may explain how he, the oracle, architect, etc, have survived throughout the various versions of the matrix. remember, the matrix is actually for the humans, the machines simply knew of man's physical need for sensory input to survive, so we'd make good batteries.
ok, now i digress.

Metamorphisis
Italian

Watch the movie again. A) she knew what floor she was on, she didn't just jump, she dove and had no hesitation once she was out the window. B) She had no where else to go. She was thrown through a wall into a room (not a door), the only exits in that room - as a standard office building - are the door and the window. There is an agent where the hole in the wall is and there's an agent that kicks in the door. The window was the only choice. She knew she was going to die, but wanted to attempt to kill an agent trying. She did not want to die for nothing. As Omega said


That is a very good answer.

Metamorphisis
Neo Dragon

Point one about the Mero not being the one. I agree that he's not. I have, for the sake of debate and stirring of new ideas, have been fighting the point from the side that he is.. I see that there is good evidence that he could be, but I'm still not convinced. As for his comment about surviving the predocessors - if he was the first anomally, he would have still survived 4 of the the others.

Your second point is part of my arguement that he is a copy of the residual digital self of a previous anomaly because of the quasi-biblical referenc.

Your third point is an interesting take. However, the Mero isn't weeding out anything remotely like a virus, and, is actually saving some that are virus like -- The Twins, and the two "vampire" programs you need a silver bullet to kill. But he would not be part of the machine mainframe if he was a previous one who copied himself over! The Oracle, though, has no purpose without the Matrix. She was designed to interface with the Matrix to study humans. And (I'm saying this with 99% certainty) being the mother of the Matrix, now serves to propigate the life of the Matrix by leading the anomaly down the path he needs to find to complete the cycle. Persophone I have no arguement for because we don't know everything that she is about -- but she did come to the Matrix with the Mero, so she was either programmed to do something, or the anomaly that became the Mero (in the Mero is a previous anomaly theory) copied over his equivallent of Trinity to live forever with him inside the matrix. smile Hence the main arguement I don't believe the Mero is a previous anomaly....

ITALIAN926
Meta, I'll never agree with any of that. Cmon, I think Trinity is well aware of the fact that there is no such thing as killing an agent. They just come back somewhere else, it doesnt accomplish anything. The woman is knowingly falling to her death and still trying to pointlessly kill an agent.. and she's trying so hard ! The point that Im trying to make is this was a silly part of the script, they shouldve had her THROWN out the window, wouldve worked just as well and wouldve been sensible.

So, lets see,
option #1 face an agent face to face..
or #2 jump out the window to your certian death..

Which would you choose !!?? hahaha

Syense
good point italian926, I had thought the same thing

JediHDM
facing ONE agent is not the problem at hand, it was facing TWO agents...Neo, as a man, had trouble with ONE, what makes trin think she can survive two? she goes out the only way she can, to jump...in her mind, jumping is a safer bet than staying and fighting, thus, if she has a chance, she is gonna try to make sure she makes it away, thus, she turns around and starts shooting that Agent, so that, if she CAN kill him, and DOES live through the fall, she is able to get away...however, the point can be made that, that Agent is not an Agent, not like we know them, cause she HIT him MULTIPLE times, and he kept shooting...it was almost as if he was just an illusion...i know he wasnt, cause we see blood fly out when the bullets exit, but its almost as if the system wanted to MAKE SURE she died, so the AGENT couldnt exit until she was dead. i dont know, however, i think i would rather jump out a window and make sure that im not taken by agents, than by taken by agents, perhaps become a traitor, etc...

ITALIAN926
Jedi, aside from taking Morpheus prisoner in M1, when was there a another time that they would want capture someone? Theyre always looking to kill. The only instance was only because they wanted Zions mainframe codes.

So youre thinking she thought she could live from a fall like that. I dont understand how. I never noticed what you said about the bullets hitting the agent and blood flying, gotta watch for that next time wink

JediHDM
well would you rather jump from 65 stories, or be ripped apart by the bullets from the guns of two agents?

Metamorphisis
Italian

There are atleast two clear instances I can think of when she hits the agent in M2, because he is not able to manuver his body to dodge them as he is in the air, the aim would be much better. However, him being shot through the chest he doesn't die imediately...the program doesn't close, and he would continue until he hit the ground. The bullets hitting him are most apparent in the opening sequence.

In M1 - she shoots the agent in the head after saying "Dodge this." The same agent does not reappear, in M1 or M2....

I doubt that she thought she could've survived the fall -- but that's not the point...

ITALIAN926
Take a chance with the bullets, falling from 50 stories only equates to splatter. But thats just me. smile

ITALIAN926
It most certainly is. Bullets arent guarteed to kill, and she couldve drop kicked the agent at the door and ran. Commiting basic suicide would be my last resort and most other people also.


You cant be telling me that you believe agents can be permamantly killed. In M1 while Smith was still a regular agent, he was shown to take over bodies after being "killed" . Im sure the same rules apply to all the other agents. Even if they could be killed, its not like the machines have a limited supply of agents to input into the matrix.... Its probably an unlimited amount ... so killing ONE is pointless, just like this debate wink

Metamorphisis
Itailian

"Dropkicking the agent and running" have been told to fail in M1 when Morpheus said "Anyone who has ever stood their ground, who has fought an Agent has died..." (The quote might be slightly off in wording, but I don't have the movie in -- deal with it! lol) And then Cypher told Neo "When you see an agent, do what we do....run!" This only suggests that dropkicking an agent would be futile, unless the agent had an immediate hold on you. Trinity put his head through a wall before she jumped out the window, and it didn't phase him!

As for the agent being killed or not...even if she only killed the body he was in, he would have had to find another body within close proximity to her late at night on the 65th floor of an office building. But she wouldn't have had a chance of shooting him if he was able to move and dodge.

And just because you don't believe you're going to make it, doesn't mean you don't hope you would.

Lets see how you'd react!! **Summins Agent clones to ambush Italian and throw him through the window** j/j laughing

ITALIAN926
"Everyone who has jumped outve a 50 story building, everyone jumping from this height in the Matrix has died.... please understand that this jump program is for training purposes only. Trinity, if you do this in the Matrix you WILL have to be mopped up"

Morpheus to Trinity lost transcript.

ragesRemorse
beside the script and plot that is riddled with holes, I only have one more question. At the end of reloaded when trinity drove the bike into the building. What caused that massive explosion? A bike crashing into a building isnt going to cause any kind of explosion,and if it does it's going to be on a low scale rather than an explosion that has a ball of fire reaching 30 stories. Im sure i missed somthing. So did i?

Metamorphisis
Italian

I guess Trinity just forgot that lesson? LoL Ofcourse, I'd rather jump than deal with bullets, mercury poisoning (That crap the injectedin Morpheus in M1 looked like liquid mercury!!), or any of that like. But then again, I jump out of perfectly good airplanes to pass the time so.... *mind drifts to the sky*alien <-- been dieing for a reason to use him!

Rages
Uhh---the pyro crew on the set got a little happy and ordered more cap cable than they needed?? Or maybe there was a gas line and boiler in the building? Or Trinity loaded up with C-4 RDX Plastic compound explosives before actually entering the matrix (like the seen in M1 where Neo says "Guns, lots of guns"wink and then packed them onto the bike? I think that last one would be most probable because of her statement "In 5 minutes I'll tear that whole goddamn building down.."

ragesRemorse
yeah that is the answer i convinced my self to accept. I was just wandering if it perplexed anyone else. Seeing how nothing was addressed to it in the movie. I know it doesnt matter, but matrix fanatics make everything matter within the matrix. One more question then. How were they able to transport physicall matter out of the matrix into the real world? In reloaded, right before Agent smith assimulated and copied himself onto the two "matrix soldiers" who were being chased by him. The guy who got away. Put somthing in his pocket which we see Neo have later. It was the message from the oracle

Ushgarak
Just a small point... again... that's not true. There are only three Agents in M1 and all three are with Neo for the finale. That Agent does re-appear.

Neither of Smith's cronies are in the second ffilm though.

I think, therefore, Italien thought you meant that Trinity had permanently killed that Agent- I doubt you meant that.

ragesRemorse
how does the architect keep returning to the same point in time to confront Neo? I mean if Neo chose the door that reloads the matrix 5 times before,then that means there have been five different times when the architect returns in time to the exact point to confront Neo. Ive asked this numerous time infact it's what the thread is dedicated to. Someone always gives me self made matrix philosophy. I'm probably mis understanding what was stated in reloaded, if so can someone correct me? or give an opinion. On how the architect can do this, and what the logic is of there being five different time's. I mean after Neo enters the door to reload the matrix with his code. is he and Zion suppost to just live on while time keeps repeating itself?

The Omega

ragesRemorse
no every one just replies with in depth philosophies or interpertations of the story. the actuall year has no point or relivance in my question. Never mind though. You know im not the only one who has found these HOLES in the matrix. There is an internet out there full of websites de-gracing the matrix for the same question. the same question that cant be answered by matrix enthuiests. Why would you even think that the actuall year has anything to do with my question? it could be year 90375 for all i care. it doesnt hide the fact that there is a time loop of some sort. if this wasnt the case Then please answer my question. What happened to Neo's physical body the prior five times in reloaded and assisting the matrix's new design? When Neo walked into the room he was informed this had happend five times. this means the architect some how finds a way to go back to the point in past where he confronts Neo. Neo enters the door that reloads everything. what happens then? is Neo then plugged into the matrix again so he can be saved again and repeat the process? if not then what happens to everyone outside of the matrix,and neo's physical body? guess my question cant be grasped

droopy1592
Because the matrix is a loop. Everything in the matrix has a purpose and a certain path is created that is almost EXACTLY the same everytime, so yes, they always direct the one in the same direction and the Architect is always there waiting, and they always have to shut off power to the power grid.

Only thing different this time is Trinity and the issue of love.

It's not so much as the same "point in time" to confront THE ONE, it's a similar window once the pattern of recognition of the ONE starts.

What happened to him the previous 5 times? Once he rescued the 23 people from the matrix to rebuild zion, the code he is carring is uploaded to the matrix to reboot/patch it. After that I guess the guy goes of vacation for all I know. Maybe that code he has gave him the powers.... since he overwrote some code onto Smiddy and now he's all powerful.

Make sense?

ITALIAN926
rages, why are you assuming it was Neo... There were 5 previous "ones" , they werent Neo himself...

and as far as the Architech always being there, you talk like he's a person. You dont think the Architech is a real person do ya? He's a program, and his job can be to sit in that chair for all eternity... simply to wait for each returning ONE.

ragesRemorse
i thought Neo got his powers from the matrix being the unperfection of the matrix design(the fault of the design). thats how the architect explained the anomaly Neo is. No i dont think the architect is a man, but it would still require time travel. Unless Neo was the One the previous five times.being plugged back into the matrix,after choosing the survivors of zion only to repeat the process.If this is the case then the whole theory makes no sense, because the architect said that this had all happend before. When the architect said that this had happend 5 times before that is what Proves Neo was the one the previous five times. Because of trinity. He said that the last five times he was pitted with the same desicion to eigther let trinity die or try and save her. So if Neo Thoeretically enters the door that reloads the matrix, then rescues 23 survivors,and is plugged back into the matrix to repeat the process. How does trinity and everyone else that died come back to life?

Over looking all of this . What will the matrix do when Neo dies of old age or natural causes? he wont be around to repeat the process.

droopy1592
You aren't paying attention or listening. Why would it require time travel?

People go to work the same time everyday, go through the same lights, eat lunch at the same time, same place, and it never requires time travel.

It's called a routine. A path is what the ONE follows, Morph says it himself. The programmers set up a path for the ONE to follow. The code that is NEO's essence gave him his powers in the matrix. He's code just happens to be an anomaly, just like people born albino. Mind's essence must be translated into code in the matrix. He was a predication, so they know he's coming. It's not that hard to understand.


After he dies of old age, a new anomaly is eventually born, just like an albino. The process repeats once the ONE is discovered. Just like before.

ragesRemorse
Neo was the One the previous five times.being plugged back into the matrix,after choosing the survivors of zion only to repeat the process.If this is the case then the whole theory makes no sense, because the architect said that this had all happend before. When the architect said that this had happend 5 times before that is what Proves Neo was the one the previous five times. Because of trinity. He said that the last five times he was pitted with the same desicion to eigther let trinity die or try and save her. So if Neo Thoeretically enters the door that reloads the matrix, then rescues 23 survivors,and is plugged back into the matrix to repeat the process. How does trinity and everyone else that died come back to life?

ragesRemorse
the architect explained neo's abilities as being the imperfection of the matrix design. Maybe he was chosen to be born, but wasnt chosen to be then one, unless fate comes into play which they dismiss in reloaded. they say the prophecy was a lie. The prophecy cant be a lie. For the simple fact that they are alive.

The Unknown
They're not the same people! When he said that it's happened five times before, he meant other anomalies followed the path of The One. He didn't mean that Neo did the same thing five other times, and he never said that he had to choose between Trinity and saving Zion. The other anomalies never experienced love. That's what everyone is trying to tell you.

JediHDM
no, NEO is not the same ONE...everytime, a person BORN IN THE MATRIX is endowed with the anomaly code at random, and everytime the matrix is reset, that ONE lives in ZION until he dies, at which point the Oracle prophecies that the ONE will be BORN AGAIN, and it happens...NEO is not hundreds of years old, have you even SEEN Matrix?

burlyman
did jedi say "endowed" hehe......
*grows up*

JediHDM
burly> wheres clavis, she needs to read this...

dave123
jedi, what makes u think the One goes onto the next zion? i can understand why, but does anyone actually confirm this?

burlyman
clavis is on the pull

JediHDM
he has to, not just because you would need the one to help free the first men, but because Morpheus says so...what good would it be for the one to free the first of us, if he doesn't take them to Zion...?

ragesRemorse
i never suggested neo was hundreds of years old, at most five. You have answered my question though jedi, and am greatfull. The fact you pointed out was a possibility that i was asking to be the truth. I really just wanted to know what happend to Neo. If he was the one the pror five times.

What made me ponder this, was when Neo entered the architect room, Neo was shown himself on television screens. The architect insinuated that the visions on the television screens were reactions from the previous five. I mean if that were the case then that meant Neo was the one the Previous five times which brought up the questions of time travel, and re-insertion to the matrix. Now i know it wasnt all is clear. It just seemed so unclear, i mean the way the architect explained everything. It seemed he tried to tell us that trinity died five times already., which makes no sense. This with the T.V screens made things seem cluttered. Think i read to much into somthing that wasnt tehre. anyway if the one goes onto live in zion after he reloads the matrix, he loses his code which is passed onto the next anomaly right?

JediHDM
no, the tv screens are the choices Neo could have made, and we zoom in on the one he does make...There has been no other trinity in the life of the previous ones, Neo was the first to experience love like he did...he doesn't lose the code, it is still inside him...he dies before the next one is created.

dave123
then why do the neos say "One's before me? 4 3 2 What are you talking about" why would neo say 3 or 2?? thats not a choice he would have made

JediHDM
so what you are saying is that, every anomaly has looked exactly the same, has made some of the same choices, and all chose the left door? yes, thats right, every single one of the screens turned the same way Neo did...

burlyman
interesting, that was quicker than the others

dave123
if the screens are showing choices that the current one/neo could have made, why would he say "3" or another number that isn't 5???

burlyman
this is keanu were talking about

JediHDM
yeah, i agree with Burly...not really, i just wanted our unmod to feel better...no, i think it is just Neo trying to comprehend the number...i mean, its not that big, but it is MUCH bigger than he thought before...plus, they are just choices he COULDA made, im not saying he WOULDA made them...

dave123
i dont think neo's dumb enough to say "1?? sh!t, i meant 5"

i agree that they show choices he COULD make (saying bullshit was inevitable) but i think it also shows previous Ones choices

burlyman
maybe its the memory from the previous anomalies wooo http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/ghost2.gif

MC Mike
Unmod... Hilarious! laughing out loud

embarrasment *Ermm* Sorry Burly...

dave123
he's a dud-erator

The Omega

MC Mike
I definitely understand it now. smile

droopy1592
That guy has a head as thick as Smith.

MC Mike
Who....

ME? mad

JediHDM
no, not you, mike...

burlyman
me? angel

The Omega
Out of the blue... I'd say droopy was referring to RageRemorse actually... Or maybe ME? It's not uncommon that I'm referred to as a "he".
(I have to find out WHY actually. Maybe I should get a sig with me in a flowery dress (shudders). No won't work either... ) smile

MC Mike
"I just thought you were a guy..."
"...most guys do"

burlyman
put her title as hmm.. somthing feminine .....lethal lady......

JediHDM
Omega> Perhaps because you seem so assertive...? I dont know, it is kinda natural, i guess, to assume male...unless, of course, you see Hell kitty and my little pony, then you HOPE it is a woman...and, i HOPE you dont change your sig to a flowery dress, leave it as it is...how would we remember you if you change? look at me, the most ive changed in the past two months is to add the sig Hex made me...

The Omega
JediHDM> You're probably right. But hey, when I tell people on the net what I do, they ALWAYS assume that I'm a "he", too.

Actually I want a sig-picture, too. How do you get people to make those? Grovel? big grin

MC Mike
Actually Jedi, I was here and remember, you had some qoutes, then some binary, then both, then new binary, then no qoutes, then no binary and the qoutes back, then Hex's sig... wacko

burlyman
shifty sss

MC Mike
Omega> Ask Hex, he'll make you one since he knows you're on here a lot...

MC Mike
sss? blink

MC Mike
Ohhh... lol... Burly wants to make your sig. stick out tongue

burlyman
*shrugs*

ITALIAN926
In defense of Rages, for a while, I thought the same things. The Wbros certainly dont spell it out for us. Combining Morpheus's statement of the year being 2100 something with those damn tv screen REACTIONS leads to a lot of confusion. I also thought those were Neo in the past. Not to mention tanks comment of Zion being close to the Earths center.

1st time in the theater when the Architech is explaining things, it was awfully confusing. Im bringing a dictionary and a flashlight to the theater on Wednesday in case he speaks again in Revolutions. big grin

droopy1592
I was talking about rage-whatever his name is.

Metamorphisis
dave123

The screens each say something different. Mingled it can be a bit confusing, but here's line for line what is said:

"Bullsh!t"
"Five ones before me? Hahahah!"
"Your a liar"
"It's bullsh!t"
"There were five one's before me?"
"There are only two possible explinatins. Either nobody told me or nobody knows."

The rest got filtered out as background noise when I ran high-pass and low-pass equalizations. I was unable to find any other completely coherent statements..though it seems that there are a few screens that actually count backwards from five, each screen stating one number. This would not be Keanu's fault as it would be written in the orriginal script.

Neo is also seen holding up four fingers in one screen, three in another, two in another and five fingers in another - in that order. Also to be noted, one screen he covers his face (out of disbelief or humiliation?) and there are a few screens that seem to display the same reaction, but they start running at different intervals.

I do not see much of any importance in that however...

Ushgarak
Rages, I have to agree with the others. Your question, based on erroneous assumptions, has been answered many times in this thread, without any references to philosophy or anything, simply with facts contradicting the assumptions you have made. NO time loops. NO 'Neo' doing the same thing over and over, just the previous Ones. Omega has answered it as absolutely and simply as can be. Please do not keep asking the same, already answered question, inssiting it is a plot hole when it has already been countered, and waffle on about it being unanswerable, or whatever.

Just read what people say. It's not hard.

MC Mike
Done...

Closing......................closed. Happy Dance stick out tongue

Metamorphisis
Ushgarak

No dispute that there were only 3 main agents in M1 - but I did a frame by frame look at the characters and the rooftop agent does not look like Smith or the other two. I can't be 100% certain, but I believe that he may not have reappeared. That was my thoughts..

burlyman
the first movie: smith, jones, brown
reloaded: johnson, jackson, thompson

Metamorphisis
Tru I knew the names, but I had not checked for extra's -- I did just a while ago and there's not. Oh well - was an entertaining thought while it lasted.

burlyman
they gained a syllable!

Metamorphisis
LoL What will they be in Revo?! Johanson, Davidson, and Williamson??

burlyman
well, they wouldnt have been upgraded, or maybe at the end of the film...
what if they marry and get double barrels! Agent Johnson-Jackson

Metamorphisis
LoL

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