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I'm watching M1 right now. And i see that the LOOP train is the same one we will see in REV.
Now when Agent Smith says that to Neo, do you think he was hinting to the previous "One's"?
I know its a stretch, I just wanted to see what you guys thought.
Oh and by the way..... ONE MORE DAYT TIL REV!!! WOOHOO!!!
wtf ??? hinting to other "ones" i dont get it
He/She/It thinks that the agent is hinting that Revolutions will end at the train station becuase Smith already killed the 5(?) other Neo's there. (?)
Ha! I do! At least the idea of it anyway.
Though, you kinda have to know what "inevitability" or "inevitable" mean. You think it means that it means a repetition or repeat of things that have happened before. But what it really means is "Impossible to avoid or prevent" and "Invariably occurring or appearing; predictable". A synonym of "inevitable" is "certain".
And there you have it!
still dont get it
Nah, I just take the movie how it's shown. I think that Smith was trying to Psyche out Neo, make him afraid to fight. I just wanna watch Revolutions Wednesday with an open mind, not clogged by any would be theories and suggestions.
Because he/she/it got it wrong.
Good god, I just saw the preview for Revolutions(on TNT after M1)...Is that online anywhere?
To all of the above i'm a he.
Now as far as the topic of the thread is concerned, I was just stating an ide about the appearnce of the Same LOOP Train in M1 that will be shown in M3.
Smith really didnt know about the previous ones. What I should have siad is do you think the W.B's were hinting at the previous ones.
I guess some of you missed my point.
Xeous as I stated before it was just an idea, nothing more. So dont come off as if free thought is not allowed in here.
What are you talking about? I just don't buy into any theories that float around.
Uh. I don't think that Smith's line is refering to this happening previously at all.
First, Smith hadn't been "set free" yet, and he is acting as if this is all new to him.
Secondly, and in support of the first, Smith says "I watched you die, and with a certain bit of satisfaction I may add, and then something happened. Somthing that I knew was impossible but it happened anyway. You destroyed me Mr Anderson."
You're reading to much into "inevitable." Even if we didn't know the defintion of the word, taken within context, we can determine that it means "Unavoidable" ; "Certain" and all other synonyms.. Also, at that point in time, we did not know (and neither did the cast and crew) that they were going to make the second and third movies.
Ok your right. I was alittle off base with my last comment.
Question for ya. Why would the W.B'S show the same Loop Train In M1 and M3? In your opinion what's the connection?
It's a different train station, if you are implying the Subway fight in The Matrix and then Mobile Ave. in Revolutions.
I know its a diff station. I was just addressing the train. Its the same in both movies.
Maybe because most subway stations connect to each other.
I was just wondering about the connection between M1 and M3.
As you know the Wb's dont do anything by mistake.
Except for already having bullet holes in the cars in the M2 car chase before the Twins, Agents, or Trinity shoots at them.
Yes he did. Watch Reloaded again.
unknown> what are you talking about? when?
those arnt plot line mistakes they are filming mistakes, and just because you didnt see them shoot yet doesnt mean they didnt.. and a bigger mistake is when the car flips on the highway.. the undercarrage on it was done real crappy.. oh and the biggest is having a ducatti not able to out run a cop... the unknown please do explain.. dont just throw out a random comment..
When Neo flies off, the two Smiths talk to each other and say "It's happening just like last time. Well, not exactly."
they actually say its happening exactly as before.. hehe but i still dont think that proves they knew anything.. because in the previous matrix's smith was so suprised when neo stood up after he watched him die with a certain satisfaction, smith says he knew it was impossible but it happened anyway.. he didnt know it would happen...
Maybe the previous anomalies didn't die like Neo did...
but smith was amazed that neo could even fight against him and destory him.. the ones could all kill agents
but if Smith had been around, he would know that the ONE will live, must live, until he reaches the SOURCE...you cannot say that a program charged with finding and killing the rebels would not know that one of them will be "superhuman"...
Maybe after becoming a virus, he infected a program that knew about the other anomalies, and he found out that way.
The Smith we know now is not the same smith fromt the previous Matrix loops.
Remember when a program has done his job, he is replaced by a better program.
As I stated before I was watching M1 last night. When Morpheus first countered Smith after taking Neo to see the Oracle.
In his first statement Agent Smith was letting us know he came from a line of agents called Smith.
Also think about what he said when Smith meet Neo on the playground after Neo's meeting with the Oracle in Reloaded.
He didnt want to be deleted so he stayed. If he had been deleted, the next version of Smith would have been Activated within the system.
IMO one of two things could have happned.
1. Since he didnt get deleted, the line of Agent Smith stopped.
2. Or the line could have been paused until the next resetting of the Matrix.
If the second Is true. Then the statement that the Oracle gives in Rev about Smith being Neo's opposite, would prove that the line of Smith is ment to be the one's true adversary throught out the life span of the Matrix.
If he had been deleted, no "other Smiths" would have been sent because all of the agents were replaced with "upgrades".
Even though they had upgrades I still think the Agents Line would still be there. Think about it. When an old program is out dated it is deleted. The only way it becomes outdated is when a better program comes along. In essence an upgraded program from the older version.
They're different agents, not the same. The ones from Reloaded are upgraded Agent Programs, not upgrades of the agents from Part 1.
I know that.
Heres an example of what i'm talking about.
Say your name is Mike Jackson. You are age 39. At age 40 you decide to have a son, and you name him Mike Jackson. Because of the systems way to identify each program your son will have the title of Jr added to him name as a way to tell the two Mike Jacksons apart.
Now your son is a totaly diff person from yourself. He's younger, stronger, and lets just say he has a better memory than you.
Shorty after your son was born you were killed. Since the system has listed you as dead, they take the title of Jr away from your son. Now hes just know as Mike Jackson.
Once your son reaches the age of 40 the cycle startes all over again.
After having done that several times you would have a long line of porgrans that have had the name Mike Jackson. All are diff and better than the last, but are still listed as Mike Jackson.
Now lest apply this to Agent Smith and his line.
What if the Machines did the same thing by naming each agent in a class unique to their own designation.
The system would have many listings of agents all having an identifing class as agent Smith, Agent Jones, or Agent Brown.
The number designation would be dropped due to the old program being deleted, and the new one taking his place.
The Jr or number designation would only be for historic records within the Matrix database.
I know i'm rambling, but I hop you understand what I;m trying to say.
Uh... your explanation made no sense. If Mike Jackson Sr. was killed, Mike Jackson Jr. wouldn't become Mike Jackson, he'd remain Mike Jackson Jr....
You totaly missed my point. think like a computer.
I get what your saying. I was just saying that your analogy made no sense.
If there was a line of Smiths, then the Matrix would have been able to send another Smith into the Matrix (though they didn't because there are upgrades) because the current Smith is a virus/exile. He's no longer an agent. He's not connected to the system.
What urot is saying makes sense to me. It's happened close to the same each time, with each one (with Trinity changing things up slightly this time)...
Each time 'Smith' has played the role as Neo's adversary. Likewise 'Jones' and 'Brown have played a role. For the first One, lets assume Smith 1 fought The One 1. The One 1 killed Smith, returned to the Source. Then the machines upgraded Smith, and released Smith 2 - in the next cycle with the next one, he essentially played the same role as the previous Smith, only with the second One.
This repeated several times, and now we have the sixth One - Neo, and what we can assume is Smith 6. It seems like each movie has three principal agents (and then Reloaded added another new agent to replace Smith, who seems to have been "unplugged" from being an agent).
The point is, its a new smith, so he doesnt have the memory and knowledge of the previous Smiths (explains his surprise at some events)... but essentailly the Smith program itself always plays the same role each time around.
Maybe that makes a little sense, or maybe I'm just confusing things further :P
Fine, make me waste my post :-D Figure it out while I'm busy typing... lol
EDIT: ok as long as you understood what I was trying to say.
As i said what if the if the computer mainframe simply dropped the JR & Sr titles leaving the current person/program with just the basic name.
The system would Identify them as a totaly diff program, because the previous program was deleted.
I'll try to more it more simple.
Program beta 1 had a skill level 12. Its job was to keep the door of the house closed.
Now that program became obselete, becuase the house now has windows.
Beta 1 was written only to keep the doord closed.
So the owner deletes beta 1 , and writes a new program to keep the doors and windows closed.
Since the owner has removed the first version of beta 1. he now has the freedom to name the new Program Beta 1, because the older Program named beta 1 was deleted.
Once you get rid of a program with a certain name , the system is free to name any new program with the old name.
That could be happing with the diff versions of the agents throught the many cycles of the Matrix.
Same name diff programs.
I see what you're saying, but Smith reveals that he knows about the different Matrixes in the beginning of Reloaded.
Yes he knows about the history, but he dosent know all the details.
That would be like saying The europeans were given the land of the New Americas by the Native Americans of their own free will.
Not knowing they killed off the Native Amreicans with small pox and warfare to get what they wanted.
The agents have a version of the truth, but not the whole truth, and what part they play in the whole scope of the Matrix theme.
Again your analogy makes no sense... and Smith does know about the different Matrixes. He says "it's happening exactly the same". How would he know that if he only knew a little bit of the history?
yeah uhhh ... maybe he took over an older matrix program thing and figured out about the matrix past....
That's what I said earlier, lol.
When Smith was an Agent he only knew and did what the system told him to do, becuase he was still so to speak plugged in.
Now that he is free He can do whatever he wants.
I agree since he has been taking over older programs that decided not to be deleted. he in a way has gained their knowlege. Its kinda like he could be filling the gaps in what he was told as an Agent.
From the trailers it looks like he took over the oracle. If he truly does that, he would gain all her knowlege about the Matrix and Neo. Think about that. If Smith takes over every program in the Matrix, he would now know the full truth. During the Super Brawl, we see that Smith has taken over everything.
What would happen if Neo killed the original Smith? Would the other Smiths disappear, leaving the original person/program, or would the Smiths and the hosts die?
dude like a vamp theory.. like kill the leader and the rest turn to normal..
That's not true with vampires...
well matters wut kind... like on blade... un true...... lost boys... true.....
No, on Lost Boys, only half-vampires would revert to normal, like Star, but for the other vamps in the gang, it wouldn't affect them (though it might kill them)
Smith did not know about the previous Matricies! His comment about "It's happening just as before" is taken out of context!!
To put it into context, in M1 Smith did not believe that Neo could kill him. Smith even makes reference to this in Reloaded when he says "I killed you Mr Anderson, and with a certain bit of satisfaction I might add, but then something happened. Something I knew was impossible but it happened anyway, you destroyed me Mr Anderson. Afterwards I knew the rules, I knew what I was supposed to do, but I didn't...."
Neo did not DELETE Smith, he crashed Smiths program shell, but that does not mean that the process wouldn't restart. Then, Smith was surprised by Neo's ability to fight and destroy him!
His comment about "It's happening just as before" is in reference to the agents last encounter with Neo. Just because someone enters the matrix does not mean that they always encounter an agent - and it's implied that there was no other encounters during that time. Which would make sense, because all's they had been doing was waiting on the Oracle and freeing minds, and with Neo's ability to fly, amongnst other things, they had a less likely probability of encountering agents. So that comment Smith made, taken in two parts and interpreted should be:
"It's happening just like before" -- There is an anomaly in that signal that can break the rules of our programming and defeat us
"Not exactly." -- I can now replicate myself infinately to take the anomaly on as an army.
You're reading to much into it if you go beyond that.
That makes perfect sense to me...
Just a note, but the Agents could have tried to take down Neo dozens of times after M1 and before M2. Neo has probably been in the Matrix more than we have seen in the movie, i.e. the kid in Reloaded that thanks Neo for freeing his mind. Ya gotta go into the Matrix to do that.
Actually vampires are all traced back to ONE vampire. Dracula, if you must, but, truthfully, someone much older if you go by old mythology. And if you killed that vampire, all other vamipres would die, or return to human (depending on how much of a mix and how long the were infected as a vampire)
If a powerful vampire made other vampires, and he was killed, then those undernieth him would die or become human again. However those above that vampire would not die. Legend has it that the very first vampire was Judas, who hung himself at sun rise the day of Jesus's crusifiction. Kill him all vampires are gone, one way or another.
However Smith is a program. If you think like a computer, then you kill that program and all the other Smiths are still there. That would be because the data stream that is inherintly Smith was copied OVER the original data stream and the original data stream would thus be erased. However, if Smith is just taking over the "terminals" that people are plugged into, and not the people themselves, then it's possible they'd all be release. I just don't see that happening because what of those people while he has control of that station? Wouldn't their bodies reject the matrix programming since it's halted at that point causing a cataclysmic system failure - thus terminating Smiths connection to their terminal at machine reset?
I don't think they are coming back...
Hmm...makes you think...I don't do that after school...
I think if Neo kills the original Smith, the clones will disappear and leave the victims.
Watch the Animatrix short "Kid's Story." Kid saved himself. Neo even comments on that. Neo didn't save him
But yes, Neo's probably been in the matrix dozens of times since M1, and it has been determined, almost undisputedly, that the phone call at the end of M1 happens JUST before Reloaded (not months before). However, due to Neo's abilities to read the code, and sense agents, and fly, this does not mean that there were any encounters through that time, and I think that we have to assume there weren't due to the Agents reaction, and Neo's reaction, when they meet in Reloaded:
"It's him. The anomaly. Do we proceed? Yes. He is still only human."
This could bee a standard thing, but I think it signifies that it was a first encounter. Morpheus also shows concern asking Link if Neo was alright, and so on.
Ah, I see. Maybe they were upgraded, but still knew about what the lesser Agents (Brown and Jones specifically) had done about Neo.
And I need to watch Animatrix anyway...
They were upgraded...but I won't argue Neo couldn't have run into them before -- I just think that there is a strong probability that he was able to avoid them, atleast for a good majority of the time.
Also, agents in the first Matrix: Smith, Jones, Brown
Agents in Reloaded: Jackson, Johnson, Thompson
Do you notice anything? They've all gained a syllable!! That was pointed out to me, by, errr...Burly I think....(sorry if I'm wrong!!!!)
I got the original script, and the lines were supposed to be:
SMITH: The great Morpheus. We meet at last.
MORPHEUS: And you are?
SMITH: Smith. I am Agent Smith.
MORPHEUS: You all look the same to me.
The part with "a Smith" wasn't originally supposed to be in there, so Hugo may have just messed up on the line.
-=Urot=- >I'm watching M1 right now. And i see that the LOOP train is the same one we will see in REV.
was it the same train? did it have loop written on the front- any screen shots?
itd be cool if it was but unless it says LOOP on it its not the same
Its not the same train
probably, smith knew bcoz he was told by the "system"
Or by taking over someone who knew.
its kinda like copy/paste. smith copied himself over everyone, n then to delete him was kinda like, neo did search on "smith" came up w/the results "smith, smith (2), smith (3)..." n hit the delete key
I'm pretty sure the machines deleted Smith, not Neo.
yeah, wasnt that what happened when they shot the 'anti-virus' thing thru him.
they needed neo to make the connection (hence smiths hand in neo)
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