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If you haven't got a TV on right now, switch one on.

The World Trade Centre Towers have both been hit by two aircraft, at least one appears to have been hyjacked according to initial reports.

Footage of the second plane crash was shown, which appeared to be a BOEING 737.

It would appear that 100's, if not 1000's will have been killed and I am sure we would all want to sent out wishes out to the families and loved ones.

NOTE: Please respect this thread for the serious nature of its contents.

I just signed on to my AOL and its all over the headlines. Its horrible.

I am finding myself physically shaking and feeling quite sick.

I'm trying to get onto an AP broadcast right now......

An update......Update: At least six people have been killed. CNBC television said there were at least a thousand injured. Bush will speak later on the incident.

Witnesses: Plane Crashes Into World Trade Center

.c The Associated Press

NEW YORK (Sept. 11) - Planes crashed into the upper floors of both World Trade Center towers minutes apart Tuesday in a horrific scene of explosions and fires that left gaping holes in the 110-story building.

There was no immediate word on injuries or fatalities in the twin disasters, which happened shortly before 9 a.m. and then right around 9 a.m.

The FBI is investigating reports that two plane crashes at the World Trade Center are the result of foul play, The Associated Press has learned.

A senior government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the agency is pursuing reports that one or both of the planes were hijacked and that the crashes may have been the result of a suicide mission.

The source stressed that the reports are preliminary and officials do not know the cause of the crashes.

''It certainly doesn't look like an accident,'' said a second government official, also speaking on condition of anonymity.

In Sarasota, Fla., President Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading.

Asked what he knew about the planes, Bush replied, ''I'll talk about it later.''

The towers were struck by bombers in February 1993.

''The plane was coming in low and ... it looked like it hit at a slight angle,'' said Sean Murtagh, a CNN vice president, the network reported.

Large holes were visible in sides of the 110-story buildings, landmark twin towers.

''I was watching TV. and heard a sonic boom ...,'' witness Jeanne Yurman told CNN. ''The side of the world trade center exploded. Debris is falling like leaflets. I hear ambulances. The northern tower seems to be on fire.''

The tops of the twin towers were obscured by the smoke.

Thousands of pieces of what appeared to be office paper came drifting over Brooklyn, about three miles from the tower, one witness said.

The center bombing on Feb. 26, 1993, killing six people and injured more than 1,000 others.

In 1945, an Army Air Corps B-25, a twin-engine bomber, crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building in dense fog.

AP-NY-09-11-01 0926EDT

Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

BBC News has just said that both passenger planes were hijacked in Boston and then flown to New York.

I can't get onto anything right now, thanks Gundy.

A 767 and a 737.

They are now reporting that Hijackers have a 3rd plane and may try and crash that as well.

No problem. Will try to keep updates coming. Do you know what kind of planes they were ?

OH GOD!

They've bombed the Pentagon!

FROM TF.N Forums:

Just in on the news. Something that appears to be a small explosion. The building shook and windows shattered. They are evacuating poart of the building and warning people not to be near the outside of the building.

Smoke is now rising from The Pentagaon this very minute.

terorist actions then, one of the plane is reported to be a 767, they take up to 300 passanger, and Pentagon is on fire as well.
ohohh somebody really got it in for USA today.

What the hell is going on ?

This is all I've got right now....Update: An aircraft has crashed into the Pentagon, witnesses say. West Wing of White House evacuated amid terrorist threats. First plane to hit World Trade Center was hijacked after takeoff from Boston, U.S. official says

The FAA has now grounded all flights.

Bothn planes hijacked in Boston

Boeing 767 impacted on 1st tower, then Beoing 737 impacted 2nd Tower.

Has the pentagon been bombed or a plane crash?

Uh, ITV just said the Pentagon WAS hit by a third plane.

They just showed the Pentagon, on whole side section is burnt out and black.

Apparently a plane was seen near the White House.

NOW, a THIRD explosion in New York

Manahatan can hardly been seen for the smoke.

Update: An aircraft has crashed into the Pentagon, witnesses say. West Wing of White House evacuated amid terrorist threats. First plane to hit World Trade Center was hijacked after takeoff from Boston, U.S. official says

ON WTC tower has just collapsed under the strain of the impact.

When did this start?

The Police have ordered all mobile phone providers to cut their services as a security measure.

About 1 hour ago.

Wake up Dim !!!!!

I'm awake...I'm awake..Christ..

Seems Tower Two (South Tower), the second one to be hit has definately collapsed.

I'm only about 70 miles from DC.....

Prime Minister Blair has just made a statement. He is returning to London fro the engagment he was at.

He was visibly shaken and clearly upset.

He has sent the wishes of the British people to President Bush and the people of the United States of America.

Maybe this is all there will be..

One of the towers of the WTC has collapsed, time for revenge and last I heard a fraction of A palastinian group PLF HAVE taken the responsibility, bye bye Arafath

They have just said that the two towers normally have about 50,000 people inside them.

The Palastine Liberation Front have public stated that they were not responcible.

The FAA has grounded all planes and there's a report of a hijacked plane come to LA.. American Flight 11. (I really hope this is a false report)

Boeing 767 Full capacity 156 including crew.

Was supposed to be flying to LA, but was hijacked after takeoff from Boston and diverted to New York

All New York phone systems, landline and mobile, are apparently down.

Man Im at work until 8:30 and dont have a tv until then, just the radio but it keeps me posted. Kind of hard to concentrate on the customers when this is going on. I turned the volum on the radio up pretty much

Reports of a car bomb attack at the US State Department.

Yeah two bombs at the Pentagon, man this is well planned, I bet Osama Bin Laden has a finger in this.

Apparently it was a third plane that hit the Pentagon.

HOLY COW!!! THe 2nd tower has just gone down.

I'm still here.....they've evacuated the Sears Tower in Chicago.

both towers down? yeah report of a third plane at pentagon

Thousands of people work in those buildings...God, how sad..

I hope Columbia will pull the Spiderman trailer from the net, movie houses and TV, it's opening feature was a helecopter trapped in webbing between the twin towers.

Whilst this may seem trivial to some, I say this with thoughts of the families of the people who died today.

Update: Car bomb explodes outside State Department, senior law enforcement officials say. Second World Trade Tower has collapsed after plane attack - live TV.


We're getting a little nervous here.....called Tom at the shop...he said they could be taking out Washington before they take over the country. I told him I loved him. I'm not joking here.

Today my friends, we have seen events that will forever change the world we know.

At the very least, the iconic skyline of New York will never bee the same.

At the very worst, this may signal the beginning of a war.

Who ever your god is, I would suggest we all offer a pray to them for the many innocents who have died today.

I'm between NYC and DC. Just in case, guys.....its been fun.

man its gonna be one hell of a body count. I hate terorist f****** cowards I hate their guts

Reports of a 4th plane enroute to Washington.

I wonder if they've moved the White House to the Green Briar.. I think (hope) that this is the last of it.

The Whitehouse, State Department and all other strategic locations have been evacuated according to reports in the UK.

Think of the retaliations, this might have very large consequences. What are those jerks(terorists) think they gain? They are gonna be whiped out for sure.

Just heard somethign about a 4th plane in Penns..

Military Aircraft are patrolling the skys of New York and Washington.

They have already shown what was either an F-15 or F18.

News of a large plane crash in Western Pensilvania.

Gundy?

Pittsburgh they are saying here.

gundy is still here....though close to tears....don't know any details on plane in western pa....must be near pittsburgh....stand by..still going through updates.

I hate this. I know too many people now, who I care for, who are too bloody close to this thing.

nothing yet on pittsburgh....

One entire wing of the Pentagon is gone.

Both World Trade Center Towers.

I want to hear from Clinton, I do not feel confident enough is Bush that he is capable to deal with this.

Northern Pittsburgh: 10 miles east of the Somerset County Airport.

Another 767 wide bodied passenger jet.

Yasser Arafat has publicly condemned the attacks and sent his condolences to President Bush.

"Terrible and unbelievable, shocked, completely shocked." he said.

you're getting info off BBC a lot quicker than I'm getting stuff...although communications are breaking down over here...

I wonder if the plane was trying to land...that's what it sounds like...I dunno.

I think we are. The internal US authorites are trying to maintain some level of information control.

But all the stuff I am seeing is coming through on the BBC and ITN. I think they must have private links.

I think you're right Dim, it may have been trying to get out of the air quickly perhaps.

The Numbers

The World Trade Centre: Capacity 50,000 people

Boeing 767 Jet: 304 passengers plus crew

Boeing 737 Jet: 149 passengers plus crew of 7

4th PLANE

There is definately a 4th plane, they won't say where though.

American Fighters are moving in to intercept and apparently they have been ordered to take the aircraft down no matter what the cost.

Pictures of TV now of survivors, caked in dust and soot being led from the wreckage of the World Trade Centre.

Well, they're evacuating buildings in Downtown LA....Probably doing the same in Seattle, Chicago etc..

Reports of an explosion in Chicago? Any news on that.

I can`t concentrate on my work I should just close up and go home to watch tv. Reports on the radio mention a 4th plane in Pennsylvania, Gundark any info? There must be some information censorship from the US now.
Oh this is so bad. Both towers collapsed within an hour.
Reports on a Chicago explotion, not confirmed though.

The COBRA Emergency committee has been assembled in Great Britain to assess the next stage as far as the UK and the rest of the world is concerned.

This kind of thing only normally happens in times when war is a possibility.

I still have nothing new on pittsburgh.....nothing at all on chicago.

Canary Wharf in SE London evacuated as a security measure - Has been the focus of terrorist attacks in the past.

American Airlines have said that they have lost 2 aircraft with a total of 156 passengers and crew.

Pittsburgh Update: United Airlines Boeing 747 missing.

Can carry up to 524 passengers plus crew upwards of 20 I think.

this is too unbelievable. I saw this on the telly, but could hardly believe it. I'm shocked.

Queen Elizabeth II:

"I am watching with growing disbelief."

radio is confirming 4th plane down on way to LA. don't have flight number.

Dimmy?

New York Mayor:

"A tremedous number of lost lives."

I can't believe this. This is just unbelievable.

American Airlines Flight 175 Boston -> LA missing, presumed hijacked

I'm here (at work now)

How many more planes have they not accounted for??

Just the one above, headed your way.

Correction: United Airlines flight 175 Boston -> LA

New report on the radio ,an unknown number in the thousand belived to have been, killed.
This is very much like a Tom Clancy novel only that they crashed into the Capitol in Washington DC in that novel but planed was used as a weapon for terrorism.

Well..here I am..it's 9:08 AM.. (If they're going to try for any West Coast cities I would think that we'd hear about it soon)

ICL, the Fujitsu company I work for, has closed down all Internet and email access for 24 hours due to this disaster.

Not sure why?

Wow..talk about stopping the world..

They have closed city hall here and are dismissing the schools.

Kind off strange RC,
This is a clear decleration off war towards the US system and politics, in fact it is an decleration of war toward the whole free and democratic world

We're gonna kick somebody's ass FOR SURE !!!!

Where is Shanksville???

Apparently the 4th plane has crashed there.

Also, the Dutchess of York was due at a meeting at the World Trade Centre this morning, she was not caught up in this incident.

I hope Norway volunteer to help out in the ass kicking.

Yeah...the Ol George W. was just itching before...talk about unleashing Fury.

Just back from school; it finally arrived here in Belgium.
I wish to pay my condolecance to the families who have lost a loved one.
I suggest that we have some sort of guestbook here where everyone can sign and that that will be giving or printed and will be placed near the WTC.

UPDATE: US closes all borders.

I also wish to pay my condolences to friends and family members who have lost someone in the tragedy earlier today.

I woke up to this terror this morning and the first thought in my head was: "We are going to war most likely." This is a horrible thing to have happend.

My dad was on a flight about to take off to Tennessee for my sister's wedding now he is going to miss it.

UPDATE:

Irak and Libia are prime suspects according to Belgium secret services

i can't really think of anything worthwhile to add to this but as someone who was at the top of wtc only 2 months ago i can't even begin to imagine the terror people must have felt and are still feeling throughout this whole dispicable episode,

my thoughts are with everyone who has been effected by these tragic events today.

OMG, this is beyond Tragic, I am crying right now, because I have many frineds and family members in NYC. My god mother lives in Battery Park, which is just a few blocks away, this is so Horrible, THose bastards!! They attack the towers, those are a symbol of our country, and those bastards took it down, and the Pentagon, our line of defense, I am really worried about my god mom, my mom is on her way back home, she's stuck in traffic, the phones are not connecting in NY, I am going to get off now, please pray for my god mom.

I just watched videos of the second plane hitting the WTC. It was a horrible seen. Also of people jumping out of the buildings before they collapsed. More people have died inside the Pentagon.

bush is in Louisiana right now. Gundy is still here too. I don't have any new updates right now.

I am just watching the pictures of celebrating Palestinians. The level of hate out east for the US in mind-boggling.

This is a terrible, terrible thing, of course. The hope now is that something good comes out of this. Perhaps this may finally be the catalyst to get proper, globally concerted efforts aginst international terrorism and we can out this evil to rest forever. Things won't be the same after this. A concerted, goorup-based serious terrorist attack on US soil. I thought it would never happen, but now it has. The second Peral Harbour? A slight exaggeration but not far off.

Difficult to see who is responsbile, of course, but the Palestinians (despite the joy of some of them) are unlikely. They have never done anything remotely as stupid and are very concious of public opinion.

Suspicion is of course on Osama Bin Laden out in Afghanistan; he and his followers are certainly nuts enough, don't give a rats arse about opinion and have been threatening this sort of thing for ages.

Still, let's not leap to conclusions.

I can only thank God that they cannot keep this sort of thing up. They not only need suicide volunteers for this, they need volunteers that are trained pilots.

Further more, the US will tighten its security to European levels (previously, of course, the US has been a virtual safe haven against terrorism, and it never reeally expected stuff like this).

So let's hope this stops right now and more than that- let us hope this is the start of the end for anything like this, ever again anywhere..

Putin the Russian President has just spoke out against the attacks and said they'll do what they can to help.


When I saw it I thought "Pearl Harbour", then I saw an American politician said the same thing.

The Isrealis are going to help out a lot as well, of course.

We are not over the shock yet, but I know for sure that we will do our best!!!!!

The palestinians are not drawing any support by their reactions showing their true colors here

To update what I just posted:

A US spokesperson has just said that there are early indications that Bin Laden are indeed behind the attack.

Still early days, though.

WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 (Kyodo) - An aircraft crashed into the U.S. presidential retreat at Camp David, Maryland, on Tuesday, CBS television reported.

Camp David? For real? Trying to get something on it...

Nothing on UK news.

Bin Laden tried, unscuccessfully, to hijack 10 planes so that they could smultaniously crash them all into the Pacific.

He was foiled on that one.

He IS the obvious man right now. But there is still a lot of investigation to be done here. I want to know what these 'early indications' actually are first.

US officials are stressing the need to NOt jump to conclusions right now, makes sense.

I don't think it crashed into Camp David..I think the Penns. plane might have been trying to get to Camp David which is in Maryland.


Today is the anniversary of the Camp David Peace Accords..

The level of hate and venom being spat at the US from some quarters right now really IS worrying. There are those Palestinian pictures, of course, and some of my friends have passed on the most appalling anti-US statememts made by some people on the net, including one guy from Bucharest who made this out to be the happiest day of his life.

It's a disturbing world.

Such people; responsible for killing these people, can't count on my support. Police and army are in highest state of readiness, the DIANA-group is ready for intervention.
Belgium will do everything to hunt them down

Ok, I am hearing questions asked about why this wasn't detected and stopped in advance by America's large resources.

I hope this doesn't turn into an internal blame thing at any point. A lot of people seem to think that preventative intelligence is easy, and it definitely is not.

Thr fact is, Amercian is a modern democracy. And, as other deomcracies (including our own) have found out over time, when you come up against people willing to take advantage of and abuse the freedoms that a modern democracy offers it is not difficult to commit terrorism.

Obviously, this was a well-planned, large scale operation that could theoretically have been stopped at an earlier point. But balance thus against the amount of successes that security services have had over time... the sad fact is that nowhere is entirely safe.

America is ever-so-slightly a soft touch for homeland terrorism because they simply have such little experience in it. But that is something to be PROUD of. For a long time it has been free of the troubles that plague much of the rest of the world, and I thkni it will yet be again

Anyway, who could have predicted that anyone would do something this insane? It's mind-boggling. And, as I say., vast effort will now be made to prevent such a thing happenong again.

For now, my support is with the emergecny crews who will now be working thier nuts off trying to find as many survivors they can in there. Good luck to them.

Still can't find anything else on the Camp David thing.....

Here's more from the prez....BARKSDALE AIR FORCE BASE, La. (Sept. 11) - As chaos unhinged New York and Washington, President Bush commanded the full force of the United States government to ''hunt down and to find'' the terrorists responsible.

''Terrorism against our nation will not stand,'' he declared Tuesday.

In Florida for a pair of education speeches, the president scrapped his schedule and said, at the first reports of attacks on New York's World Trade Center, that he was hastening back to Washington.

But, with the White House evacuated under threat of attack and his wife hunkered down in an unidentified secure location, the president and Air Force One were rerouted - under escort by military fighter jets - to this Louisiana air base.

In a conference room dotted by portraits of decorated Air Force officers, the commander in chief announced that the U.S. military was on ''high-alert status.''

''Freedom itself was attacked this morning and I assure you freedom will be defended. Make no mistake. The United States will hunt down and pursue those responsible for these cowardly actions,'' Bush said.

First lady Laura Bush spoke with her husband by a secure military phone line before he took off from Sarasota, Fla.

Mrs. Bush and a handful of aides were whisked by motorcade from Capitol Hill, where she was to have testified to a Senate committee on education, to a hide-out away from the White House. There, the sequestered group huddled around a single TV in their hide-out and channel-surfed for the latest news, according to one person in the group.

Mrs. Bush also checked with her twin daughters at college to make sure they were safe.

Hollywood. How many films have been made about this sort of thing?
America were warned last week that attacks were planned but they still couldn't stop it. That is VERY scary.

It also make the planned Missile Defence System pointless.

Tony Blair, in his speech, said that Britain would stand 'shoulder to shoulder' with the US in order to help them in this situation, and from this point on.

KJ, America was warned about attacks but NOT on American soil. We were looking at Embassy attacks here, lime Laden has done before.

And who gives a frig what crazy scenarios Hollywood have come up with over time.

To make it clear: We have no reason to think that there was ANY indication of anything even vaguely approaching what happened here.

The Camp David thing: The plane in Pittsburgh was heading for Camp David.

So, Dim was right then. Well, at least we can be thankful for some things.

Ush you made it sound as if it was impossible for anyone to imagine this sort of thing. I'm saying it's not.

You said "who gives a frig what crazy scenarios Hollywood come up with over time". One of those crazy scenarios happened today.


To quote NBC- "America was warned two weeks ago that they were open to attack".
That to me sounds like the U.S.A. Not embassies.

And there was the foiled plan to crash American planes that RC spoke about.

Doesn't matter what you thin it sounded like; the warning was, with good reason, taken to mean consular targets.

Ok, it can be imagined, KJ, but that's hardly the point is it? Hollywood imagines alien invasions.

To clarify: Who would have SERIOUSLY imagined that this sort of thing would happen? The answer is no-one.

I will repeat: The credible info about an attack like this was non-existent, from what we have before us now.

Apparently someone on the downed Pittsburg plane called 911 from the bathroom of the plane and kept screaming over and over again that they were being hijacked and it wasn't a hoax...

I think they became aware fairly quickly that the planes were hijacked. What they didn't expect was for them to be plowed into NY, and there would have been little to be done even if they did.

USH it isn't that hard to imagine something like this. Maybe it's easier for me because I don't live that far from Lockerbie.

A terrorist bomb blowing up a plane and destryoing the town below is pretty unbelievable but it happened.


America has been warned bfore about terrorists striking on USA soil.

You're saying that the warnings last week were made about Americans overseas. The truth it, they are ALWAYS on alert. The warnings two weeks ago were about attacks on the U.S.A mainland. A lot more will be made of this in the next few weeks, so we should wait until then for the truth.

Yes, the pittsburgh plane was headed for Camp David. Although Bush would have never gone there from Florida anyway.

Now I'm thinking about trains and ships.

Well, if they were warnings on the mainland, then why was their global alert aimed at CONSULAR staff? There has been npothing on the news about this; only about warned attacks on embassies.

The American Intelligence services aren't stupid. If they'd had credible info on a home attack they WOULD have acted on it, you can be sure.

This is an unbelievable attack, KJ, and that's what the world thinks.

BTW, bomb attacks on aircraft have happened many times before and are credible. NOTHING like this has ever happened. The scale of it is mindboggling; a terrorist organisation training up pilots just so they could kill themsleves like this... shockingly strange.

Still, in any case, it shows us that an open society is always open to attack, regardless of available resource.

As for the coming days and weeks, I am certain we are going to see the internal blame game and I am certain that it will be totally unfair, nor appropriate. They would have stopped it if they had known it was coming.

They are getting the pictures in from the wreckage now. It's grim viewing. There has been nothing really like since WWII.

KJ, the Foreign Office has just categorically stated that there was absolutely NO prior wanring for this whatsoever. None of the Western Intelligence services had the slightest clue.

It is unbelivable KJ, who would imagine comercial airliners crashing into buildings. These where planes hijacked on US soil. And they chose planes headed for the west coast for one reason only: The amount of fuel in those planes.
Kj you live near Lockerbie, but I cannot compare those events
I find it hard to imagine todays events, it takes a lot of planning and resources to execute such acts. And that will limit the numbers of suspects.
It is either a group supported by a nation, Bin Laden, or US militia groups, but they usually target federal buildings so I count them out of the picture. That leave us with Bin Laden or a group acting on the behalf of a country.

Hmm, some speculation now over just how trained the suicide pilots would have had to be. It depends on how far the proper pilots flew them and how much the terrorists were willing to leave to chance.

They are still saying 4 planes were hijacked but I am also hearing the Pittsburgh crash was an accident caused by the panic as everyone was ordered to land.

I think the terorist flew the planes, the proper pilots could not be trusted to do it. They might have sacrifeised themselves by crashing the planes into the sea. So in this theory the terorist must have been trained in manouvering large planes.

Well, that's what people were syaing at first, bvut the reasonable point has been made:

Standard proceudre is to acceed to hijackers, get the plane down safel and let the ground guy deal with the terrorists. So if the hijakcers had said 'Take this plane to New York', the crew would have assumed it was a 'standard' hijacking, done all the difficult navigation part and got the plane to NY airspace, and THEN the hijackers take over and crash them, which CAN be done without that much training.

The crew could never have known until the last moment just how suicidal the terrorists were

It's becoming total chaos!
Now they are suggesting that Brussels will be next with the NAVO and the European Head there now...
I think that (whitout being funny- which I'm definetly NOT) that if
Bush overreacts and begins using Bombers and stuff, we could be here on the virgh of a WWIII (so Nostradamus was correct?)

UPDATE FROM ITALIA:

before the start of AS Roma and Real Madrid for the Chmpions League, there was 1 minute of silence.
Italian supporters refused and were clapping their hands and singing.
SHOW SOME RESPECT *********!!!!!!!!!

I am still totally stunned by this whole thing. I can't believe this has actually happened. The people in those planes and the people in the towers....the people trapped in wheelchairs and the people still buried alive in the rubble and on and on and on.....

Well, at least they weren't cursing the US and all it stood for.

I wouldn't be too hysterical right now. In any case, if it IS Bin Laden, they are a terrorist organisation in Afghanistan; you can speculate whether there are state links but the fact remains that you can't exactly go to war with a group, rather than a country.

The US already treated the Bin Laden group as hostile. Of course, now we can expect to see some decent international co-operation here; but that's hardly a war...

Hey, I'm watching it now and I still can't believe it happened! But a terrorist attack from within the U.S.A isn't the most inconcievable thing in the world. How it happened maybe, but even that's been written about a lot. Don't forget that the WT building has been targeted before.


Ush, I've heard on NBC, the BBC and Ch5 news that the U.S.A were warned last week that they were open to attack. US embassies are ALWAYS open to attack so it's clear they were talking about the mainland.

You're already seeing terrorist experts on T.V who can't believe that this happened so easily.



I just saw a terrorist experts say that this was too complicated to be carried out by terrorist and he says that a Government was behind it. Iraq is who he said.

Yeah, they'll be speculating for a while. If it isn't a country it will have to be a conglomeration of groups.

Well, there's never been a serious terrorist attack on American soil carried out by a group (last WT attack was a minor attack, Oklahoma was a single man), while there have been in most European countries, so that is the surprise value. But yes, there were a lot of people thinking that this was inevitable.

In any case, it'll never be the same again.

KJ, those rumours last week, seriously, were treated as threats against Embassies. They may be always under threat but that doesn't mean their ears are closed to more specific ones. That's how THEY treated them, anyway, and thery have a lot of experience in this sort of thing. It's easy to judge in hindsight.

They have SO clearly stated that they had no warning that it cannot be doubted unless you think they are lying.

Ush watch ITN. I just saw a report and an interview with a guy called Andrew Rithnal(I think). He was asked if there were warnings and he said "There most certainley was". He then said that the Security Forces were warned but the problem was that they get so many warnings.

They will show this interview again and I've seen this guy on CH5 and NBC. That's where I'm getting this from.

'Warnings'- vague term. There WERE wanrings, but nothing like this.,

Right now I trust the Foreign office who made a VERY clear declaration. Still, I guess this will be argued out for quite a while, and you never know how things will end up.

But all I can say is that they were not prepared for this sort of attack, and I am certtain that if they had received good information they WOULD have been.

I'm amazed that there were no anti-air defences at the Pentagon.

Ok, that accidental crash thing seems to have gone now; they were pretty certain that the crashed Pittsburgh plane was probably goig for Camp David after all.

Another building has just collpased near the crash area; thjey think more may follow.

They still hit the pentagon and that is not an easy target. It is not very elevated and you do need some skill to fly planes of that size. They might have been former fighter pilots.

Yeah, the Pentagon would have been tricky; like I said it depdned on how much they wanted to leavt to chance.

Most likely scenario is that they had pilots; though Bin Laden's access to such people is questionable.

No it aint, there are numerous of countries who have educated pilots with no planes to fly. Like Iraq, many pilots few planes.
He can easyly draft comercial airline pilots with strong religious ties. Remember the Egyptian plane that crashed outside , I think it was Nova Scotia. The pilot desided to comitt suicide to meet Allah so he took the entire plane with passanger and crashed it. Fundamentalist pilots around the world picked up by Bin Ladens network and he has the means to pick them up.

Well, there is a lot of speculation about what links he has made to do this if he did. We'll see.

I've just gotten home from school and it's all anyone talked about. No work was done and when we were watching all this in the classrooms a lot of people were holding back tears. I'm honestly terrified. If we go to war and if (this is a strong if here) they call in the draft, I'm scared to death that my brothers will have to go. They've been replaying the tapes of the buildings collapsing and the plane hitting them and it's absolutely terrifying to watch. Oh no, another building has collapsed. This is unbelievable. This is the kind of stuff that happens in history books which sounds kind of stupid but I know what I mean. This is gonna be one of those things that my kids and grandkids are going to ask me about the way that I ask my grandparents about WW2. This is impossible. My heart goes out to the families of the people who've been killed. Dear Lord, we actually broke the law and prayed in class today.

Hey, don't panic. It;s very early days yet and we don't even know if there is anyone to go to war WITH yet. Not in the traiditonal sense.

I think we're jumping the gun here...For one thing there's no country to go to war against..(most likely) And even if we do we will most likely use volunteer reserves to supplement our armed forces like we did in the Gulf War.

Whilst I feel there is no reasonable doubt that action must be taken, I believe Dim is correct in her assessment.

Right now no one knows who is responsible. Clearly Bin Laden is the number one candidate here, but until there has been some investigation and solid proof can be ascertained it would be fool hardy, to say the least, for anyone to launch an retaliatory attack right now.

As Dim also said, it took the combined Allied Forces of the US, Great Britain and many other nations to quell the Gulf crisis.

Unfortunately we are in a situation where the extremist elements of the Middle East have a lot of people willing to die for there cause, far more than could be mobilised by any nation in the west on their own.

For now it is a time for reflection, investigation and understanding. The time for retaliation will come later, once we have a target to retaliate against.