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First off...if you haven't seen this yet dont read any further

SPOILER WARNING

1. The little Indian girl, Sati, is refered to as 'the last exile', a programme without purpose. Now, we know that useless programmes have a choice, to go back to the source, or hide in the Matrix. Her father decides that she is too precious to go back to the source, so he makes a deal with Merv to allow her to stay, while he and his wife get deleted? I think this is the case. Anyway, Sati goes off to hide with the Oracle, but is then turned into Agent Smith. She later appears at the end of the movie once the Matrix has been rebooted. Can anyone tell me, what exactly is the point of the last exile? What does she do, or signify?

2. The Oracle (in her new guise)says that she sees the end of the war one way or another. By this she means that either a) Smith will destroy everything, man and machine, therefore no war or b) Neo will save the world by doing what he does at the end of the film. But the Oracle does not seem to know in which way it will end. She knows there has to be an end, but she doesn't know how. If she doesn't know how, then Agent Smith doesn't know how... even when he takes her over. This is why Agent Smith says 'Is it over?' at the end... because he doesn't know! What confuses me is that she also sayd that the Architect 'can't see past choice'. If she is the Architect's opposite, then can she see past choice or not? If she can, then she would know how it ends.

3. Neo makes a deal with the Deus Ex Machina, saying that if he destroys Agent Smith (who is beyong the Matrix's control), then man and machine should live in peace. Fine. That seems logical. But why does he let Agent Smith take himover? I know that Agent Smith and Neo are opposites, so does it mean that they cancel each other out? I think Agent Smith wanted to destroy the entire Matrix, which would be the only way to set himself free. That was his purpose... to destroy the Matrix, while Neo's was to save it. Therefore the theory of cancelling each other out makes sense. Smith wants to destroy Neo, because Neo holds the code to reboot the Matrix, something which Smith doesn't want. Neo wants to destroy Smith because he wants to save the Matrix, being the only way to save the entire human race (well, those who are still plugged in). So, they cancel each other out, and Neo's code reboots the Matrix. Now... why don;t the machines continue to attack Zion? They have a new Matrix... no Neo and no Smith... it would be so easy for them to destroy Zion. Is it just becaouse of their pact with Neo? Doesn't sound like machine logic to me.

4. The Architect tells the Oracle that he will free those who want to be freed. What does this mean? Will he free those who reject the Matrix at a subconscious level (as mentioned in reloaded) Or will he free all humans who find out about the Matrix? Will he free evryone if everyone finds out? The latter would result in the machines losing their source of power. Is there to be a new balance, where-by humans and machines co-habit the earth, and try to unscorch the sky (something hinted at I think, when the Logos flies up above the clouds)...or will the future consist of Zionites and 01 living independantly, with a small transfer of humans between the two as people get woken from the Matrix? The ending is very unclear on this. What is the situation?

3. Everything in the Matrix has a purpose, Smith's only purpose was to kill Neo. After he did this, he was deleted. If machines promise to do something, they do...They afterall, aren't human.

4. If the Wachowski's wanted to make another sequal for some reason, this ending would let them, but i think that sequal is hidden in "The Matrix: Online." I think that game will answer our q's

i dont think it needs to answer any 'questions'... just handy for a plot line for the game

Oogy> You can interpret Sati in many ways. Have you played ETM, and seen the exchange between Niobe and the Oracle?
She did, first of all, not chose exile by herself. It was chosen for her, by her parents, out of love. And what is one of the point of the Matrix movies? What does it mean to be human? It means being able to make an emotional choice, and to fill the term “Love” with meaning. For that reason, a human reason, did Rama Kandra and Kamala chose to save their daughter. The sacrificed themselves for the love of their child. So Sati signifies a program that no longer has a “practical” purpose, a program that can feel, and makes emotional decisions.
Evolution.

The Oracle can see the entire path of the one, from the beginning to the end. At the moment Smith takes over Neo she can no longer see what happens. So she does see that happening, but not what happens after that. She’s gambling. The Smith-Oracle cannot see past the point of Smith infection Neo either. Hence the “is it over?”

The Oracle tells Neo, that Smith is his opposite. His negative. If Neo is The One (1), then you could call Smith The Negative One (-1), and those two combined 1+ (-1) = 0. Smith is NO longer agent smith in M2 and M3. He’s “just” Smith. And doesn’t have a purpose as such anymore. He’s ego.
Neo does join with the Source, so the anomaly is returned, but the Matrix isn’t reset to run for another 100 years. It’s simply repaired and allowed to continue.
However – What do you think we’ll be doing in The Matrix Online?

I gather from the Architect/Oracle exchange that the Architect will free that 1 % who doesn’t accept the Matrix. Many wouldn’t want to be freed (think about it), and some wouldn’t be able to handle it.
For the rest: Those are open questions. Just as M1 didn’t end with closure, so M3 doesn’t make a bookend.

If there weren't questions after the end of the film we wouldn't post anymore in these forums. We would have everything answered so why bother. That is the meaning of the not-ending end. To keep these forums warm and in general people discussing about the Matrix and make them try to find out what the heck is going on.

1. The parents weren't deleted, they merely went back to their jobs in the machine world.
2. She didn't know what would happen, she just believed that Neo would win.
3. By allowing Smith to take him over, it created a connection between Neo's mind and allow of the other Smiths. The machines then uploaded an antivirus program into Neo (similar to what Tank does with Neo in Part 1). This "destroys" Neo's mind, thus creating a chain reaction because of the link.
4. They will let everyone that doesn't accept the Matrix program. As stated in The Matrix, many minds aren't ready to be freed. Freeing them would kill them or screw up their minds.

Agreed. With all the answers this forum would dissipate into nothing. So would all th other forums.No,not quite. there's always the spoilers to think about.

I went to see Matrix Revolution last night and i thought it was great but i have a few questions.
What actually happens to Neo at the end? Does he die?
Also does anyone think thye will make more matrix movie just not about Neo's story.
Its just anoying when a trilogy ends. The lord of the rings trilogy will be ending soon as well. But they have to end some time.

If anybody has the answers to me questions please reply to my post.

Lew

The answer to the neo question I think is he is still alive and has now become a program hooked up to the machie main frame.

cool thanks

So, technically, he's not that alive...
But I thought it had been planned originally to be a trilogy and nothing more...

It does leave space for more movies and the Oracle says they will see him again so..
but moving to the Matrix forum
Moving--moved

needs spoiler in the title as it addresses rev ending

its possible neo ends up like the oracle or a rogue program, free roaming in the matrix....

its probably best neo is dead because he is nothing without trinity no love no purpose. maybe the oracle was saying that we won't see Neo again but maybe we will see the next anomaly? im not sure if they reloaded the matrix at the end or not and since the 1% who do not accept it will be freed would that mean no more anomalies? haha well i just argued with myself look for hidden meaning in what the oracle said

yeah sounds like the architect may not live up to his word, and the war will continue, but then they would need a rogue saviour like neo, who would have turned into a free roaming program like the oracle and the likes..

NEO IS DEAD. Completely and totally dead. He and smith were two sides of one annomaly if smith dies then neo dies. Neo sacrifices himself to kill smith because he realises at the end that its the only way. He sacrifices himself in a cross position like christ just another way to smack us in the face with the religious connotations. Really i'm so suprised at how few got that when it was completely obvious.

what do you mean, how few got that? WE ALL GOT THAT, but there are deeper meanings...for instance, you say Neo was "crucified" like christ, and yet you say he is dead...If he is LIKE CHRIST, he is NOT dead, but rather, has become greater than his physical body could allow...

i think reading many people's reply's there are a lot that didnt get it. Since neo is a recurring anomoly he is not dead (in that sense) and he has, for this version of the matrix, ascended back to the source however he is still dead. If i don't make any sense sorry I'm still working on it in my head.

No, Neo is not the anomaly, Neo WAS the anomaly in this iteration of the Matrix: there is a difference. Neo has ascended above the physical, even in the matrix, meaning he is no longer a man containing just a code randomly inserted, but he has become APART of the matrix, ascended, become whole, good and bad, Yin and Yang, Neo and Smith...His body, in 01, is very dead, but he is alive.

interesting i had not yet reached that conclusion but it does make sense. cool.

Idiots, all of you. IT's over. There is no more matrix. Once the people are free, you no longer have a matrix. Unless they no one ever got out.

joeboy--

i love those titties.. you are my hero for getting those babies up. good job.

okay so neo is JC right. JC dies and goes to hell to free people then comes back in three days as a ghost. Will neo be returning as a ghost as well or what?

Neo has ascended, meaning he is now part of the coding of the matrix, able to keep changing it, still able to free minds, im guessing.

joeboy> the matrix will not be finished until EVERYONE plugged in is freed and the humans have helped the machines create an alternate energy source, or cleaned the air...the machines will continue growing humans until this happens, and the humans will continue to free humans. But adults will not be freed, they will have to spend their lives in the matrix.

Interesting... He's a part of the code

hmmm

I got a little confused after watching Revolutions.
Here are my questions:

1) How did Neo end up in a Train Station?
2) How did Neo get the power to destroy sentinels in the Real World? As first seen at the end of Reloaded.
3) Why can Neo "see" the machines glow in the Real World?
4) What really happened to Smith after he cloned himself in Neo? Is it like the same in Matrix 1?
5) Why exactly would Agent Smith be a threat to the machines? He exists in the Matrix which the machines control. Also, even though Smith starts to control humans in the Real World, the machines will eventually destroy almost all of them anyway.
6) Simply declaring "Peace" by humans and machines doesn't change the fact that the Machines still need power to survive! How will they get that power if they let the 'other humans' go? The architect may not be human but he's not stupid either.

I do have other questions and theories to some of my questions also, but I wanna hear from you guys first. What do you guys think?

Jedi> Do you really believe that the machines need the humans to help them clear up the sky? I believe that the machines only keep the matrix because it helps keep the peace. This has been discussed before anyway...

first things first, you dont need to use spoiler tags if you put spoiler in the title....now that thats outta the way...

1) his mind was placed there when he realized he had the power to touch the source in the real world
2) His mind touched the Source, and he gained a connection to it, thus, he can "control", to a certain degree, all machines.
3) see above
4) basically, except this time, it destroyed Smith, rather than creating the virus.
5) once Smith finishes destroying the matrix, he will crash it, and allow him to use the connections to get to the source and use the source to destroy the machines.
6) the humans will not all be freed, they must a) know the truth and b) want to leave...also, their mind has to be young, otherwise they will already be so used to the matrix their mind will have trouble letting go...plus, even if they stopped growing more humans, they still have fields of them...this would be sufficient to allow the machines and humanity to either a) clear the skies or b) find an alternate solution to the power of machines.

Priest> Well, I think now that we have the third movie out it's reasonable to rethink some of the topics we've already discussed. We might look at them in a different light now. Of course now that I've said that, I'm sure it's gonna come back to bite us.

1. When Neo destroyed the sentinels the first time, he used his connection to the source for the first time. The Merv found out that Neo could do that and while Neo was in a comma (because of the stress his mind was put in by excercising his newly-acquired abilities) he captured his mind and put it in Limbo. Then Neo woke up. If his mind wasn't captured he would wake up in his bed.
2. Because he has touched the source his mind is connected wirelessly to the source and ultimately to all the machines.
3. It is one of the abilities he acquired when he touched the source along with destroying sentinels. He had the ability before he got blind but he didn't use it because he didn't need to (and he didn't know he had it).
4. Yes. But the machines loaded their antivirus program through Neo and destroyed Smith.
5. Do you control a virus that has infected your system?
6. Who said the machines will stop using human beings as batteries?

yes, i think they do...they are very methodical, but they cannot think like we do...even though they are AI, they are still artificial...plus, we know where the old libraries and stuff are, we could probably find schematics that show the antidote...there are reasons

I don't think that people kept data written in books (given the year and the technological level they were) but in a optical/magnetic medium. And machines control these mediums. Thus the machines have access to the humans' technological library. But then I think that maybe they kept it in books so that the machines would never find a way to clear the sky themselves.

from the comics, we know that libraries, buildings, campuses were left intact...there had to have been SOMETHING the humans had that explained both what the scarring was and how to end it...the humans had to know that, if it worked, they would need to undo it...

Yes but this was almost a millenium ago. The files may be lost.

no, in the comic, in this iteration, a team went to one of the libraries and got seeds and planted them and grew them...also, there were cds and dvds left over still...

yup... in the Bread Day comic

5. No, I can't control the virus on my system. But I could a) Delete it. or b) Reformat my system.

6. That's what I understood from Oracle and The Architect's last conversation. ("How about the others?" "They will be freed of course".

And JediHDM, when you said "the humans must know", what do you mean exactly? When somebody knows, there's no turning back already.

5. No, I can't control the virus on my system. But I could a) Delete it. or b) Reformat my system.

6. That's what I understood from Oracle and The Architect's last conversation. ("How about the others?" "They will be freed of course".

And JediHDM, when you said "the humans must know", what do you mean exactly? When somebody knows, there's no turning back already.

Thanks for the replies.

dejio> the humans must know the truth, or that there is the possibility that this world isnt real, before they can accept that there is another world. Neo wouldn't have ever gotten out of the matrix if it hadn't been for Morpheus giving him the information that there is more than meets the eye.

also, and this is refering to priestjims answers, the humans beings cannot all be freed from the matrix, otherwise they will all die, (see my post). the ones that want out will be freed, but there will be those that do not want out. as for deleting or reformatting...if you do either of these, all the humans will die, and the Matrix will crash, destroying the Machines power source.

i dont believe Neo is dead. As pointed out by many people Neo has this burning light within him somehow symbolising that he is still alive. It seems that at the end he is being carried away by a machine, maybe even returning him to Zion. Also the fact that the Oracle states that he will be seen again...the reason why Neo does not die is because he can see past choice, as Agent Smith cannot - because as everything has a purpose, Agent Smith's purpose was to destroy Neo. Once he does this, he is deleted...however, the Brother could have made it less up to interpretation and less religious connotations of christianity. It was Ok but too clicheish

Well maybe Neo went into another comma, one in which he wont wake from, and I do believe that his code was reinserted into the matrix and that the matrix was rebooted. Oh and Sati is a program that governs love, just thought I would throw that in their.

the matrix wasn't rebooted, it was returned to its form from before Smith. and Sati does not govern anything, she has no purpose.

If Sati had no purpose than why was Seraph guarding her?

Seraph was guarding her for what she represents, and that is programs in love. She is the first of her kind.

why did neo let smith you know what?
what was up with the matrix still running?
Is Neo still alive since the oracle is. IS NEO?
Who is sati?

Will anyone please tell me!

IT was the best movie i have ever seen and can some one just help me just a few things i didnt understand!

you guys think 2pac still alive? PeAcE...

Neo let Smith take him over because, he had to. Neo realized, when Oracle-Smith said "Everything that has a beginning has an end", that Neo was the beginning of Smith, and he is the ENd of Smith, and the beginning and end will be similar. The matrix will still continue, the humans have to choose to be freed, thus, it will continue until the machines find an alternate energy source and the humans no longer desire to live in the Matrix. Neo, yes, i believe he is still alive. His body is glowing, in the same manner as the sunrise, and he is the only one who's mind did not remain where it was, so, i believe that, once the code was complete, meaning once the One and the Zero combine, the ONE ascends, and becomes a part of the matrix.Sati is the child of Rama-kandra and Kamala, two programs fromt he machines world. She has no purpose, thus, she was to be deleted, but Rama made a deal with the Mero to allow her to live in the Matrix. I believe she is more powerful that any other program.

Hi all, first post up in here...




If 2pac was alive, and would eventually return, by doing so creating the biggest confusion in history, he would probably get shot by his mom. ^^

...if he was alive, perhaps he was not human, perhaps he was...an agent, created to kill biggy but was stopped by batman ?



but as far as the movie goes, I dont understand why some of you guy sthink its THE best movie ever... it was ok, effect wise great, but I repect others oppinions.

morpheus tells neo in M1 that when the matrix was first created there was ' a man born inside who had the power to change the matrix as he saw fit'.

i think sati fits this description. she was 'born' inside the matrix, from two programmes. She can change the matrix (sunrise). also, she is there at the beginning of this new matrix cycle. she is the last exile... a programme without a purpose, but made from human emotion (love). for this reason, she can control the matrix, because she is not part of the matrix code...she has different code in her...LOVE, which the matrix does not understand.

the reason she survives in the matrix is because the merovingian lets her... because he gained the codes to the oracle's shell from her parents, who are then sent back to the source.

another point....
seraph is a 'fallen angel'... and merovingian's doormen recognise him as such, outside club hel. this makes me think that he originally either worked for the merovingian, or tried to fight him at some point, but 'fell'. in either case, he then became a programme without a purpose, but chose to hide in the matrix, and serve the oracle. remember that neo sees him in a golden code in reloaded way before he ever goes blind... my thinking is that golden code represents code that is somehow different from the green code of the matrix... hence seraph, bane/smith/neo are all seen in golden code.

to acertain that neo isnt dead, when the machines towed him away in the end, there was a 2 second scene with everything seen through his eyes...you know the way he sees everything built in light...meaning he was still watching..neo obviously isnt dead...

oogy> Sati was born in the real world.

alaba> the scene was not from Neo's eyes, because Neo was on the "funeral barge" that was floating away, with the glowing body on it...this glowing body is neo, making me think he is still alive...

yeah i know jedi...but really its a bit confusing isnt it?

cause only he could see things that way right?

no, because it is done to make a point...did Neo see himself walking down the corridor, or see himself laying there like he is crucified? No, so why would this be any different?

I have found a minor flaw in the Matrix movies.
Why didn't the machines just kill the humans to start with and use cows as a source of power?
The Matrix would be far less complex as the code would only need to simulate a giant field where the cows could eat grass.
Cows letsout more body heat than humans, over 36,000 B.T.U. there is also the added benifit of methane.
Cows would not rebell against the system and if there "minds" were freed they would simply die through lack of grass rather than trying to free their cow buddies.

no, that is not a flaw....the machines, though they imprisoned us, still care for us, like they did in 2nd renaissance, and all they ever wanted was peace with the humans...plus, they are our creations...them killing us would be going against their own emotions. by putting us in the matrix, they are basically giving us a second chance.

Interesting point, yeah.
Still it's not the most effecient way for the machines to survive.
But in the end (SPOILER) the machines did give humans the peace they wanted.

yes, because it is the same thing the machines wanted...

sorry but i am so disappointed at revolutions it was a 'b' movie with a big effects budget. and please stop trying to work it all out there is nothing to work out. matrix 1 was great and should have stayed on its own. that way we could have forgiven all the mistakes in the basic principle to the story. but no the bros thought they were clever and now all they have done is ruined a good film(the first one that is) by bringing on sequels as bad as blues brothers 2. the plot only seems difficult to work out because it doesn't add up just like 2+3 don't make6. it was just a vehicle for the excellent effects, but they even got boring after a while. the brothers tried to be clever but failed even disney wouldn't ruin a film like that. matrix 1 brilliant, matrix2 o.k. because you expect it to be wound up convincingly in 3 but no revolutions being bad ruins reloaded as well.

what do you mean by "stop trying to work it all out"? are you saying we should just look at the surface and never delve deeper into anything, forgetting everything the Wachowski bros. have put in there for fans to find? if so, we would succumb to the gamma minus semi-moron hollywood and mass media the world tries to force us to be...I'm sorry, but i'm not gonna go down like that.

You know what that leaves open for another sequel.... GHOSTBUSTERS!!!

er.. its a film, you know entertainment. if you don't want to be like all the semi moron types then study something real like physics. that way you will realise that the real world is far more strange and interesting than any film. you will always find things if you look even if they are not there.

ok, fine, are you saying that the fact that Morpheus is the Greek god of Dreams, Nebuchaddnezzer was a king who had dreams from God, he says "I have dreamed a dream, but now that dream has gone from me" and the plate on the Neb and his license plate are all coincedences? the Wachowski bros said it themselves, there is more in these movies than you will ever find...It makes the movies more enjoyable to know that there is more than meets the eye.

Mrsmith> So in your world there’s no room for interpreting books, or paintings, music or movies? Even certain aspects of physics is still open for interpretation, you know?
If you hate Revolutions so much, why are you here? Those who enjoy all three films, and who enjoy seeing how deep the rabbit-holes go, are here to interpret, discuss and ponder.
Those who hate it don’t seem to want to do anything but complain.

I'm all for different opinions. But MAN, Hell IS repetition.

or is it other people...? i think "huis clos" is correct...

maybe hes living in Equilibrium
does that mean i can live in The Matrix (movie)

erm.....ok question thread....

How did machines manage to enslave 6 billion people?! didnt any governement intelligance thingy predict that machines may...you know..rise against everyone?!

Why would you scourche a sky when humans more than anyone need solar power to live... couldnt you disable the main systen when machines went crazy...lol

What has me confused about the ending of the movie is this: Was the oricale the creater of the matrix? At the end when they showed the little girl again, and the Matrix reloaded....who reloaded it, Neo or the oricale? And, I sort of didn't think it could be the oricale because is the oricale not a program to, if she is the other half of the man(whats his name she was talking to at the end). He said he would keep his word about the ones that wanted to leave the Matrix, that hes not human. So that would make him a program, and her too, right?If this is so, Who created the Matrix.?

2. I am assuming that Neo became a higher power, and is now like the oricale or close to it?

3. Do U think there will be a another Matrix?
4. and what is this Matrix online I keep seeing on here about.?
5.Also, I read someone say that alot is explained in the game, is this true?

Forget the part about who reloaded the Matrix, I read that somewhere else,

The oracle was the program that figured out that choice must be in the equation in order for humans to accept it.
2) Yes, i believe so.
3) no
4) It is a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG...like SW Galaxies or Everquest...
5) yes

Thanks, but tell me who made the Matrix ?
If the Oricale is the other half of the Architect, and they are both programs then they couldn't have made it right?

I think they'll have a 4th Matrix movie. Maybe not by the WAC brothers. They left so much room for another movie. It is inevitable!

Arcitect build the matrix..hes the A.I built by humans...so,he built the matrix..

The Architect, a program created by the machines, created the Matrix. When it failed, another program (The Oracle), discovered that givinjg the humans a choice, although subconsciously, allowed the Matrix to work.

Stupid humans..this is by no means machines fault...i bet humans struck first as well....

Oooohhhhhkkkkkkaaaaayyyy, thanks so much for clearing that up for me, I think I need to go watch the 2nd on again.

I have another question, why did it take neo so long to notice that it was Mr. Smith? And why did Morpeous<---(spell check) not reconize him?

when are you refering to?

when neo dies, who is the oriental man left in his place lying on the ground?

?!?!? i'm assuming you are refering to after Smith is destroyed, and we are shown the Oracle laying in the mud...

sagen> yeah that's Smith dying, and that's the oracle in the mud

Angelsolovely> my roommate asked me this too. But I think you have to reallize that Bane was someone he knew (or at least had seen around before). He wouldn't Assume that it was Smith inside Bane's body. In fact, that would probably be the last thing he would think of. Even with all the Smith-like talk, it probably would be the last thing any body would expect when they are not jacked into the matrix. Just a thought

yeah, exactly...Even when you have spent as much time around Smith as Neo, your mind does not conceive of the possibility that Smith took over someone that is no longer jacked in...its too much...as Neo said "Its impossible"

Neo's digital self vanishes.
The person in the crater is the Oracle, whom Smith took over.

Okay, I admit I'm totally obsessed with this matrix gobbly-gook. As a result I seek closure to unhook the obssession. To wit, I offer the following with the hope that comments destroying my conclusion or confirming them would be forthcoming.
Pity the "poor" machines for their now eternal quest for purpose to life; that is to say until another, yet to be determined entity evolves to something greater then them and surplants them as masters of the planet. In my matrix world there are no humans save for the power source pod people and all the onscreen "human" action is nothing more then virus/anti-virus failsafe encounters. And within the context of these encounters, the machines seek meaning and purpose through predictable as well as unpredictable human emotional responses. In essence then, the whole story is about evolution--the evolution of humans once being masters of the planet to now, machines being the masters. Give it up people, it's over for us. The machines rule. There are no real people hunkered down at the center of the earth and there is no escaping from the pods. We (humans) have been reduced to being nothing more then actors within the machines production to rid themselves of inevitable viruses that pop up from time-to-time threatning to corrupt their whole system. Hence, we to the machines are much like the dinosaures are to us--museum pieces with one significant exception--we are the machine's creators. Alas, in this context we will at least always be relevant much like the notion of God will always be relevant to us. The only difference being the questions that cannot be answered e.g. humans: who made God? and the machines: what is the purpose of life?

Smith's view on life was to end it.

"I really should thank you for it after all it was your life that taught me the purpose of all life. The purpose of all life is to end." -Smith

So neo died in the Matrix, and is the other half of an anomoly of smith who isn´t a human.

What has a human got to do with the Matrix, if there was an anomoly programmed into the matrix then it would be part of it, as in a programm or something like that, not a human.

The film is totally illogical, so whats the point discussing it, just forget it and go and watch LOR 3.

the anomaly isn't programmed into it, it is the remainder that is inherent in any equation...if you do calculus, or chemistry, or physics, there is always (unless you take string theory) somekindof flaw in the equation, so there is a error...Neo is the error. The machines use this error to their best, they make the "saviour of mankind" and "instrument of the machines"...

i just noticed this... very interesting

when the two trucks crash in reloaded..one of them has a sign saying 'Longpath' on it. I think this may be a hidden reference to the long path of Neo!!

also...in enter the matrix...

there is a scene which goes like this

Seraph walks into the Oracle's kitchen and she says :
'Thankyou for coming so quickly'
Then Seraph says : 'No need to thank me. I am forever indebted to you'

This makes me think that the Oracle somehow had something to do with his theorised 'fall'. Then she asks him to help her, and he does becuase he feels 'indebted'.

What do you think?

I would hope that they create another animatrix to explain other story lines. Like the Merovingian...how he became a rouge program? How will life outside the matrix change? and so on

He didn't recognize him because his coding changed. He was no longer an agent of the system, he was a viral exile.

oogy> the other truck is "gidim"...i cannot remember what it means at this moment, but the thread should still be there, do a search for 'gidim' or 'longpath'...

yeah, there was a thread on that...

The Matrix probably would be the best movie of all time as far as storyline and special effects.

JediHDM, no doubt, has the most knowledge of The Matrix Trilogy. How old are u? What do you do? If I had to guess I'd say you were a program from the machine world.

O yeah and one more thing. Is it me or does the last scene where Neo and Smith fight alot like Dragon Ball Z.

WHAT A.....BORING Movie...
!!!
great special effects.. great great great,,{
but its the samee history.. of the apocalypse**in da bible**...
whatever....

........... thats onlyy my opinion.-
..
i invite u, my friends to read books.



bye.-

ps. sorry if i'm a boring person......

...calculus, or chemistry, or physics, has nothing to do with it. Didn´t you know that computers are run by machine code. Computers don´t have errors, its either right or wrong 1 or 0 ,the only errors are those which appear in the programming, ask Bill Gates, Microsoft collect these errors and puts them into something called "WINDOWS". The matrix was probably programmed by his engineers when you consider how illogical it is, more holes than swiss cheese.

Neo cannot be the error because he´s not machine code but HUMAN and therefore unpredictable.

Okayyyy... I'm sticking this again, so people can post their questions here...
Bicnarok>Actually, mathematics has a lot do with “this”. And computers DO indeed have errors (Ever seen “Blue Screen of Death”?). A computer without software isn’t really that much fun. They have a certain memory-capacity. Us humans can work with the concept of infinity, and this is used I many sciences. It IS true that there isn’t flaws in the equations used by chemistry or physics all the time. But there are estimates and equations that cannot be solved.
Let’s say I take the fraction 1/x and then let x go towards 0, and ask, what’ll happen with the fraction. A computer will give me an error message. I can write that 1/x -> infinity when x -> 0.
In the case of the Matrix, that Architect had to make an unequal equation (mathematical nonsense) for the program to work.

And the anomaly that Neo picked up IS a program.

saiyason> I am 18, and i do not have the most knowledge of Matrix..."I would say i know enough"...but thanks for the complement!

Bicnarok> Yeah! what she said. *points to Omega*

Ok, i understood all of the film apart from what was with the light sentenal?

Is there any connection between how Neo defeated Smith in 01 and in 03. If there is why didn't Neo die in the first one, or why didn't Smith die in the first one. Maybe Smith didn't die because he was still an Agent and not yet a Virus, but that still doesn't explain why Neo didn't die. Unless it does and Neo didn't die because Smith was not yet his opposite therefore they didn't negate each other. That is to say Neo is even dead in the third.

This is just something I have to get off my chest.If I was Trinity I would be pissed at how I died. Her obituary would read: Trinity T. Anderson died on an unknown date. She was an awsome freed mind and defeated many a villian. She is survived by Neo, her lover, and Morpheus, a mentor, two of the greatest warroirs of the Machine war. In the middle of fighting the Great Revultion she died in...a ...car ... accident. A FLIPPIN CAR ACCIDENT!!!!! I think she got ripped off big time.

Any way, if anyone can expand on my thoughts I'd be greatful.

can some1 help me i cant figure out how smith took over a guy that was not jacked in

What person are you talking about?

that happened in Reloaded... ever seen it? Seriously, cuz if you didn't watch it you should... If you did, then you should remember...

you are talking about Bane right?

el_barto, if you're talking about Bane, he WAS jacked in when he was taken over. The new Smith then jacked out into Bane's body.

here's how i think about it: i would suggest thinking of the one and neo as separate entities within the same body. thus, neo is dead since he gave his life to save zion and the matrix. the one program may be needed again, however, it may not, make that, most likely will not be neo, especially since neo wasn't each of his 5 predecessors.

Oracle and Archie spar about "The Others" and if they'll be freed....we assume they're talking about Humans, but what if they're talking about Programs?

I do agree with the Anti-virus thing, though...I don't agree with the cancelling out idea....mainly because, from a film-making point of view, NOTHING happens in a movie without a reason...If Neo & Smith cancelled each other out, then Deus Ex wouldn't have to "do" anything ...I.E. the wonderful light show...

Another thing I don't know has been addressed refers back to M1..."Have you ever had a dream you were...yada yada yada"

What if there are layers to the Matrix? What if Zion and the Machines exist in ANOTHER matrix? As opposite halves of an equation? This would answer the burning question about how Neo could control/see the machines...It would be just like stopping bullets in the Matrix...

To look at it from a Software point of view, perhaps the "Matrix" is akin to BIOS/Machine language, and the "Real" world is akin to an Operating System...Different layers, but still software...Not that that is ever addressed directly in the movies...

I think that Sati also has an important role in the film, she's in multiple scenes, starting from the beginning...Perhaps rather than being the "Sunset Queen" program, she's the machine's answer to Beauty/Love...The machines cannot see a practical purpose for this, hence her destiny to be deleted...

OK...now I'm getting punchy...

I don't think anything was uploaded into Neo when Smith copied him. I think the master machine simply killed him (via electrocution from what it looked like), thus killing Smith. I think that the solution is to kill someone jacked into the matrix when Smith copies him. This would A) kill the person jacked in obviously, B) kill all Smiths because they are all one conscious. That's my theory anyways.

[

Sati is not turned into Agent Smith. She is a program that exists apparently for no practical purpose but to express the love of her parent programs. She creates the beautiful sunset at the last scene between the Oracle and the Architect.



I don't think that is made clear. She is a program that is self-aware, as is the Oracle herself, but she MAY become important in the next evolutionary stage of the Matrix, since the Machine Mind has agreed to make peace with Neo, destroy the computer virus that has become Smith, and thus call off Smith's war against Zion (we know that the Computer Mind can't control Smith and Smith is a threat to the Machine World). It is understood, of course, that the Machine Mind needs Zion, for only Zion can provide the means of retrieving Neo from the Matrix. Neo is needed by the Machine Mind to refine and improve the matrix so that the human batteries will not only survive, but flourish. This is a never-ending process that is itself subject to evolutionary change. The destruction of Zion is a priority of Smith, NOT the Machine Mind. If Smith had succeeded in destroying Zion, the Machine Mind itself would ultimately be destroyed, since its power source would evenually atrophy--that is, the Matrix would not be so successful over time in providing a genuinely believable world to sustain the human batteries. In this theory of the matrix, the Machine Mind needs to limit Zion, but NOT destroy it entirely. The people in Zion are real people. It is not altogether clear to me that Neo is a real human being by the time of M1 He certainly appears to be human, and I take him as human, but then he presumably reappears in each new cycle of the matrix. Perhaps there is always a new Neo, or a human being who answers to the purpose, because it is clear that the Machine Mind needs Neo in order to make the matrix better. But Neo is also something more. Neo is the short form of the word Neocortex. Neo's mind is the template the Machine Mind needs to keep the matrix realistic and believable. How? The Machine Mind has hardwired all the human batteries and they are essentially passive participants in the collective hallucination that is the matrix on a good day. The Machine Mind, however, needs the conflict and danger of real human experience. This Neo provides as a real human being who also has superhuman abilities (at least in the matrix), since his mind is the foundation of the matrix itself.



She can only make choices and hope those choices are the ones that destabilize the matrix. She exists in order to make the matrix a believable world for the human batteries. Otherwise, the batteries would die, as Agent Smith made clear in M1. The Architect can't be allowed to run the whole show, his constructions would necessarily be "too perfect." He is a program, after all, not a human being.



Answered some of this already. Smith is a virus program. How did that happen? Neo entered Agent Smith in M1. That event altered Smith's program and he became a virus whose only purpose was to destroy the matrix, since the matrix is "too human". In MR, Neo lets Smith enter him so that he could cause Smith to self-destruct, which he promptly does. What makes this possible and realistic is that Smith is out to destroy Neo--not the Machine Mind, but Neo, as the source of the matrix itself. It is not necessary that Smith "know" that Neo is the source. He just knows that if he destroys Neo, he will also damage and possibly destroy the matrix. Smith doesn't control the Machine Mind--he is just a program that may have once served the Machine Mind but became infected by Neo in M1 and has, in a sense, become a self-contained virus that the Machine Mind cannot stop.



The Architect means to say that those who wish to be freed of the matrix will be freed to do so. The people in Zion wished to be free and they are now free. They use machines still to grow their food and provide their energy--but all in all it doesn't seem to be a very attractive world. Still, they are "free" in the sense they are no longer being fed the predigested pap of reality that the matrix provides the multitude.

There is a good question here though. How are the human batteries to become aware of the objective reality in which they actually exist, versus the shared hallucination provided by the matrix? Will the Machine Mind permit the free humans to access and interupt the matrix programming? This seems to me to be the big problem with any so-called peace between the Machine Mind and Zion. Peace may not be realistic until one side or the other wins a final victory.



Seems to me you've hit the nail on the head. Perhaps future sequels will give us the answers to this buring question!

I think Neo did die, but not before the machines could copy him. Smith and Anderson are common names, yes? One of my theories is, umm hard to explain but here I go. How do we know, what happened didn't happen almost exactly the same way the other five times (Neo Ver 5.0)? It may have, and before he died each time, the machines copied him, his conscience, his abilities and his 'unbalanced equation' to make the next series of agents or next main agent. Which is why Smith was so important, because he may be a copy of the previous "One"

Neo has certain powers due to his connection to "the source." What is the source? Neo functions as the neocortical template--a dynamic, living, changing template--from which the Machine Mind enhances the functions and realism of the matrix itself. Neo himself doesn't really understand WHY he can do what he does do, but we know that when he does these things he is "getting in touch" with aspects of his own mind, i.e. the source. In a sense I suppose he can do what he does because memory provides him with the sense of how the matrix works. Beyond that I don't have a theory, not that that's much of one, I admit. But the Oracle always tells Neo that he already knows something whenever he asks a question.



You can do this, but it is not necessary. The various machines, in their war with humanity, developed sufficient complexity and integration--perhaps in some form of an array--where conscious machine intelligence spontaneously arose. Machine intelligence requires two things: hardware, that occupies real space and time, and software, meaning the code. Presumably the Machine Mind developed the ability to generate code, for the purpose of self-survival against the human effort to destroy the machines. The Oracle, Smith, Sati, etc. are all programs that are being run in some machine or other, presumably also connected to the array and are part of the Machine Mind. The Machine Mind recognizes that such programs may be useful in creating a reality that it really doesn't understand very well. But they have proved to be useful in creating a believable matrix for the human batteries that the Machine Mind knows it needs to survive. In other words, the non-human characters in the movie exist to promote the health of the matrix. It is not inconceivable that Smith himself is part of the mix, for certainly Neo is. Just because Smith can't be controlled doesn't mean he isn't needed. Thus we do sort of enter a portal into an indeterminate universe whose texture is created mainly by computer programs. The Machine MInd, by letting Neo live, recognizes that uncertainty and indeterminacy is needed in the software itself that generates the matrix, that the matrix might provide a truer facsimile of real life that is, as we all know, filled with uncertainty and indeterminacy.

also my thoery might explain why the Oracle expects to see neo again

but now we know that it is not "must" that whatever oracle predicts is true

Reloaded made it clear that Trinity was the turning point of this version of the Matrix. She's what made this version different from the earlier versions. So I don't understand how the Oracle or the Oracle/Smith saw the end. He knew when it was supposed to end when Neo was lying there, he didn't know how it would end, but he knew it was to end. The only way he could know it was the end, is if it happened before, which it didn't. So my question is how was the end seen.

Also what makes Neo, Neo. When they say he has a code are they talking about a code that was inserted into him or is it a heredity trait past down in his blood line. This makes it possible that the "code" is his DNA code. This also means that all of the One's are related and judging by the way Neo was held at the end of three he could be a direct relative of Jesus or some other religious blood-line.

Maybe they are talking about an actuall code, maybe an anti-virus. It is possible to "reprogram" a person's mind and we know this from Bane. So maybe the one is somebody whose mind has been reprogrammed to carry this code and to be an extraordinary mind. If Bane jacked back in he would look like Smith, but maybe the way they reprogrammed Neo's mind didn't interfer with his mental image of himself so he looked the same as he always did. So what I'm saying is his mind is no longer his, but instead a program with the purpose to destroy anything that is a threat to anything he holds dear.

I like my first theory better, but both are something to think about.

I think any theory must take into account that Neo is a real human being. If he were not, if he were just a program, then the Machine Mind doesn't need Zion to extract him in M1. If the Machine Mind doesn't need Zion to extract him, then there is no rationale for permitting Zion to exist. There would then be no reason to stop Smith in M3. But clearly the Machine Mind wants Smith destroyed. Why? If Smith destroys Zion, who will extract Neo? We get into the territory of conceiving Zion as simply another level of the hallucination, but whose?

No, I think we go off track here if we develop a theory that violates our experience as moviegoers. Neo is given to us as human. We have to go with that unless and until all other theories are shown to be untenable.

She's the turning point because she loves Neo, and love is something the Machine Mind perhaps does not understand about humans. "Love" doesn't compute exactly, although, it is clear that the parent programs we meet at the opening scene of M3 speak of software correlatives of the human emotion. Does this mean that these programs have become "self-aware"? Does this mean that the Machine Mind, while not understanding love, comprehends the software correlative of human love? I don't know the answer to those questions. But it does appear that the love between Trinity and Neo ENABLES Neo to reach the machine city and make a deal with the Machine Mind. On the literal level, of course, because Neo's eyes have been burned out--she has to pilot the ship. But I think also on a deeper level, Trinity's love transfigures Neo's consciousness and enables him, empowers him, to confront the Machine Mind. Love in the case of Neo puts him in touch perhaps with his deepest yearnings and longings, puts him in touch with "the source" of his power.



To concede that you know that a series of events must somehow "end" doesn't commit you to knowing exactly HOW the series will end or who will attain "victor˙." Smith has become a mutant virus and therein lies both his power and the limits of his vision, his purpose. He thinks the name of the game is destroying Neo. He is not especially "self-aware." He may still actually believe he is the old Agent Smith. But he has become "obsessed" as we say, monomaniacal. Orginally, Agent Smith was the "useful idiot" of the Machine Mind whose purpose was to keep the pressure on Zion. Neo's entering him transformed him into the virus he now is. Thus Neo re-enters him after the deal is cut with the Machine Mind. Neo simply tells the Machine Mind that he, Neo, knows how to defeat Smith, but evidently Neo needs, if not the help of the Mind, then its acquiescence. Thus Smith is destroyed, and war is called off, at least temporarily, and a new day dawns in the matrix. However, the Oracle still exists and promises to the exile, Sati, that Neo will once again probably return, but not for a long time yet. But I don't think we can say clearly that Neo dies, not if his neocortex is "the source." For every human being has a unique neocortex, even if the DNA is identical, as in genetic identical twins. On the other hand, maybe it doesn't matter which individual is chosen as Neo. A real human functioning brain is needed that belongs to a real human being undergoing "real life" adventures, thus the extraction, the real war that continues and is permitted to exist by the Machine Mind. After all, the Machine Mind could just nuke Zion out of existence if it really wanted to, couldn't it? So it needs Zion for some purpose.



It can't be the DNA code. DNA doesn't determine behavior in detail. It may predispose a biological entity toward a certain sort of behavior, but doesn't determine the specifics of that behavior. For example, identical twins raised under completely different conditions might show a predisposition to collect stuff, or have certain preferences, such as liking a certain level of intense excitement, etc, in order to "get off" but the particular content will differ and there will be as many other differences as exist between any other genetically unrelated human beings. "Code" I take to mean software, pure and simple. Why make this harder to understand than it already is? The matrix is, basically, a lot of computer code hardwired into the cerebral cortices of the human batteries the Machine Mind uses to power itself.

Have you ever tripped on LSD? LSD affects the chemistry of your brain in a way that makes your consciousness experience an objective reality that really seems to become altered. It's not like an hallucination that is imposed upon an objective reality that you can still sense really exists there. Your sense of reality actually becomes altered. The three-dimensional world of chairs, tables, floor, house, trees, flowers, etc., becomes somewhat fluid and you become immediately and directly aware for the first time that what you experience as objective reality may still be objective and real, but not exactly in the way that you had thought. You become aware that objective reality is some sort of a construction of your own mind. You see that the philosopher Kant was correct in believing human beings experience things as they appear, although there is no reason to accept Kant's skepticism. Which is real when you run a computer program, the code that "creates" the experience, or the "experience" itself? In biology, the code appears to arise through evolutionary processes of conflict and growth. In the matrix, these processes must be mimicked by the software.

I wouldn't dismiss the DNA theory so quickly. DNA doesn't tell who a person is in detail, but it has a great deal to do with who we are. What you said about the twins is true which is why, if this theory were correct, it takes such a long time for another One to surface. You are more likely to find a genius in a family with a history of geniuses than in a family with a history of idiots. Same with everything, musicians, doctors, professors, and so on. Actually there is no reason for both theories to be correct. It could be a computer code and also a gene past on. When the One is born the Machines recognize his brain patterns and implant the code. There is no proof of this theory and realy no reason to think this true.

I'm not excactly sure how it was said, but the Smith/Oracle said something like "I've seen this before" this line alone means this happened before "I'm supposed to say something here." Correct me if I'm wrong, and please do, the only way the Oracle, the Architect, and the Oracle/Smith knows something is going to happen is because it has happened already, I think that's right, but Trinity changed all that. I know I'm basically repeating myself and Mantrainer5 tried answering this question, but Oracle/Smith doesn't just know the end is there, he takes it a step further and says "I've seen this before" and that makes no sense, unless I, being the human I am, missed something.

I know somebody is going to try and answer this question, but the facts are this scene never happened before, but somehow, impossibly, the Oracle/Smith says he saw that before. I'll be impressed to be proven wrong, but I think this is unanswerable or maybe it just doesn't matter as much as I'm making it out to be. Maybe it was just a script flaw or something.

I've never tripped on anything nor do I think it's safe with the imagination that I have, not saying I have a superior imagination than anybody, but it's just a weird one. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box either, but where I lack, I make up for by not having closed doors. I actually believe that because I'm not a genuis in many fields I'm not limited to what I see. Most of my day is spent in my room with my eyes closed and writing music or gathering material from my thoughts for a painting or a plot. I've been around artist who truly beleive that drugs help them theorize and come up with off the wall pictures or songs and maybe they do, but they still don't turn out as much original material that I do just my thinking. I'm not trying to sound like an anti-drug ad, in fact my point isn't even about drugs, it's about not having limitations to anything. If you just let your mind go you can see anything you want. I don't mean free your mind either, I just mean let it take you where it wants to go and anything can become anything. You'll be suprised.

Wow. This really has nothing to do with The Matrix. Maybe the idea of it does, but in terms of story-line it has nothing to do with it.

You haven't answered my question

I only kind of remember the light squid, but I think it was just to show what Neo saw and that would explain why I didn't pay much mind to it. I could be completely wrong though because I don't fully remember it.

Killing someone jacked in wouldn't kill all of the Smiths. They obviously loaded something into Neo, which was most likely what destroyed them all.

Good point. We really don't know HOW the matrix is actually generated in the human brains that are being used as a biological power source. Frankly, we have very good reasons to think it is not possible to generate artificial epiphenomena in human brains, since the brain is a biological organ and only exists in a body such as we have, and all we know is that if this brain of ours did not exist in the sort of body we have, then it would not generate the experiences it does. The assumption the movie makes is that, in fact, the machine mind CAN generate some sort of "code" that is then input into the brains it uses as a power source and that, somehow, by mimicking objective reality, create such belief in these human batteries that the question whether they are experiencing nothing more than a shared hallucination does not even arise. That, I take it, is the reason why the Machine Mind needs somebody like Neo. A machine mind, even one of this awesome power, simply cannot deal with reality in the same way that a human being can, for the simple reason that the Machine is not human. If you change the nature of the sensorium you change the nature of what is sensed. A dog, for example, even if it had the intelligence of an average human, would still experience reality in radically different ways than a real human would. It would also have a radically different concept of what is important, and what its purpose is, and therefore what parts of experience it will attend to and what parts it will ignore.



Remember, though, that Smith is a virus whose course evidently was set when Neo entered him in M1. His expectation was upset, however, as he was tricked by Neo. Still, it may be that the broad arch of events, in general outline, has happened before. Perhaps there were certain expectations. You know how we humans work very hard for something to come about, and it seems virtually certain to come about, and we may even have a lot invested in a certain outcome, or, at least, that there will be a determinate outcome, and yet, we are surprised when "reality" throws us a curve ball and something else happens.

A successful matrix will throw curve balls. In essence, that is the purpose of the Oracle, as she admits. She exists to destabilize the matrix. By definition, she can't KNOW what's going to happen, other than the high probably that something determinate is going to happen. She did not know that Neo would destroy Smith. How could she possibly know that Neo would be able to work out a deal with the Machine Mind? She didn't. She hoped, perhaps. How much she actually had invested in the particular outsome is a whole other conversation. I am not sure I answered your question to your satisfaction, but that's my best shot.



The fact that Smith (not the Oracle) says he saw that before, simply demonstrates that he has been tricked by Neo. After all, if he knew he was going to be destroyed by Neo and the Machine Mind, he may have done something else. I don't really think so, because I don't think a virus program has the ability to do much beyond what it is designed to do. Smith doesn't really have any choice. Actually, none of the programs has any choice. And the human batteries, obviously, have no choice or any ability to make any choice. Zion has choices. Neo has choices. But only Neo has the particular choices to influence the nature of the matrix.

I see now, it's not that he saw it before that should be the subject of the scene, it's who showed it to him or blinded him that was the significance of the scene. HHmmm... I lived up to my name as a human and was wrong.

Machines don't have a choice, you're right about that, but once they complete their purpose they do have a choice. To be or not to be. Some choose to exist in the matrix and some choose to go back to the source. The point being they are given a choice. Same with the jacked in humans. They are given a choice, although it's only in the mind and not immediately made available to the person's consciousness it is given to them, to reject the matrix or not. The subconscious choice was the doing and half of the infinite purpose of the Oracle.

So correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying that maybe, if the theory of having superior genes is correct, the machines are using Neo as a vehicle to better understand what it is to be a human in how they interact with curtain things and situations such as love and choice. They would need Neo who's mind is able to reach the depths of no depths and connect with the machines and show them a better matrix. It's hard for my mind to trace back how we came to this semi-conclusion, but it might be possible.

I didn't qualify my bold generalization and I should have. I said programs really don't have a choice. That's not exactly correct, because it seems that some programs, such as the Oracle, and the parent programs of Sati, have become "self-aware". If you are self-aware, i.e. conscious, then you do have the basic choice you describe. Actually, you may have quite a few other choices as well, for as we know, the Oracle also makes choices and talks a lot about them. She tells us that the Architect, however, can't get beyond choice, or something like that, meaning that he has no choice but to solve mathematical equations whose solutions stabilize the matrix. So maybe consciousness is not a sufficient condition for making choices, since the Architect appears to us as conscious, but he can't choose to do anything other than what he does. In the last scene, for example, the Oracle asks the Architect, what about those who wish to be free, and the Architect says they will be free, and the Oracle says, do I have your word? (or promise, I forget), and the Architect says, Of course, I am not human. The obvious meaning is that because he is a program the desired result is, for him, preordained, since he has already programmed it that way (or solved the mathematical equations that will generate the promised result). The less obvious meaning is that he didn't really have a choice in the matter. That's what distinguishes him from a human being.

In relation to the anti-Neo, once Smith mutates into a virus he has no choice but to do what he does; he is not a rogue program, he is a loose cannon seeming to move under his own power to an utterly predetermined result, like Ahab in Moby Dick. Melville in that story even compares Ahab to a machine that in some sense has lost his humanity, since he can no longer attend to reason. He has simply given himself over to the quest to destroy the White Whale. Similiarly, Smith is on a quest to destroy the Matrix, which in his view is the cause of his own suffering. We don't know, do we? why exactly he hates humans so, other than a certain fastidiousness that we in our humanity tend to associate with machines--clean, well oiled, perfect, not dirty or sweaty or anything identifiably human (grin).




I am not sure I follow you here. Are you talking about Zion personnel who "jack in" to the matrix? Or the human batteries whose electrical energy fuels the Machine Mind?

It is interesting to speculate whether or how due to the Big Peace Deal, the human batteries will be given a choice to opt out. Clearly that is stated by the Architect as what will happen, but I wonder merely by raising the possibility as a real alternative many of the energy drones may have their hallucination made clear to them and thus cause it to be undermined. But maybe not. The guy in M1 who betrays Morpheus obviously preferred his hallucination to the real thing . . .

As for those who jack into the matrix, when you say ďt's only in the mind, remember that it is still real for everyone except Neo. You can still die. It may be that the bullet that kills you is "only" a software-generated facsimile, rather than made of steel and lead, it will still kill you. Neo has the unique ability to "deconstruct" or dissolve the facsimile, or possibly his mind is able to get control of it and thus bend it to his will--somehow he can access the program code that sends the bullet, or makes the bullet what it is in the matrix. This gets tough to talk about after a while, but I think this is fairly clear, isn't it?

The thing is, the jacked-in humans have exactly the same power of choice in the matrix as they have out of the matrix--just the context changes. If you are human, you have a different set of choices if it's your job to run IBM or whether it's your job to manage the local MacDonald's franchise. We don't say the one has choices and other doesn't. Both have different choices, including the choice to continue in that particular job, or prepare for a "better" job that would change the choice array in a particular segment of space-time.



Yes, more or less. It's not clear, is it? that superior genes are needed by the Machine Mind. Clearly it would be better if the One were smarter than dumber, but he doesn't have to be a genius I don't think. The key thing is that he needs to be a human being.

Look at it this way. A human's brain develops in response to contact with his environment. Alter the environment, or deprive him of his ability to use his senses, you dramatically alter his future ability to interact with his environment in a successful way. The brain itself is a dynamic organ--you use it or you lose it. To some extent it can be supposed that the artificial reality generated by the matrix gives the human energy sources some minimal excitation of their cerebral cortices; but the theory is that this minimal "floor" standard shifts over time and the standard, after a while, becomes more demanding. That is, the human batteries either flourish or die. If the same standard is maintained without experiential upgrades to the matrix, the batteries will tend to die. Anyway, that's not my theory, that's the theory set forth by Agent Smith in his discussion with Morpheus in M1. As he phrases it, the original matrix was too perfect, it didn't have any suffering in it and the Machine Mind lost vast human crops--they simply died--probably through boredom trying to figure out whether they were real or not and just decided the hell with it. LOL. Agent Smith didn't tell us how they offed themselves!

Anyway, once given some real facsimile suffering, the crops sprang back to human life. Presumably the trajectory has to be upward and onward. As in, what have you done for me lately? So the Machine Mind has discovered it's got one hell of a problem. It just wanted to go about its simple business of doing whatever machines do when human beings no longer program them or direct them, and it discovered that it still needs the obnoxious humans after all; and not only that, but now the Machine Mind must spend vast amounts of resources and software ingenuity to keep the damn things flourishing. Probably not a foreseeable event! (I know that the Machine Mind, in the scene with Neo, appears to be in a state of denial about this, but that just goes to show that maybe this Machine Mind is starting to develop human qualities after all! Despite its saying it didn't need anything, it went and made the Big Peace Deal with Neo. Ergo, it said one thing, but then went ahead and did another--the right thing in this case, since if Neo didn't destroy Smith, Smith aimed to take out Neo & thereby the matrix, and thus rendering the Machines absent their power source).

This creates one real BIG problem. The last thing the Machine Mind needs is a bunch of loose free humans running around screwing things up and making even more trouble for the Machines. So programs are written and real machines are created that go after Zion--not to obliterate Zion but to keep it under control, contained. Why? The Machine has discovered that if it can fully exploit the mind of one real human being and use that knowledge to upgrade the matrix, the shared hallucination becomes more successful, more "real" to the human batteries whose consciousnesses feed off it and depend upon it to excite their brains and make them want to continue to live, to flourish.

Zion is needed to extract Neo (or some real human who might function as Neo) so Neo can do his thing. In the particular incarnation we view in the movie series, Neo's nemesis is Smith. But not every incarnation necessarily will have a Smith for Neo to contend with. Maybe next time around something else will happen. but we know it's going to be dramatic, exciting, death-defying, and fully capable of engaging the emotional sensibilities of the people involved, and especially the sensibilities of Neo, because Neo's functioning brain becomes a source of knowledge to the Machine Mind on how to program the matrix to make it even better.

Clearly this is not a trilogy! It has the potential of becoming a vast series, like Star Trek, only to cease when its target audience becomes either so philosophically jaded that it's just too boring to discuss anymore, or the audience just moves on to the next movie thrill.

Really, anything can happen, anything at all . . . .

Did that little girl creat a new world?

no she was just a program incharge on the weather......


Did u kno Mr Reves (Bad Spellin) Is Bisexual....... And his G/F died during one of the films

danistar> no, she did not create a new world, nor is she in control of the weather...she created a beautiful sunrise, because it is in her power to do so, because she has no parameters controlling what she can and cannot do...

Upon further reflection and discussion with others, part of this is wrong I think. Smith is NOT at war with Zion; Smith is at war with Neo. So the problem would appear to be how to account for the fact that the Machine Mind appears to be destroying Zion, yet we also know that if Zion is completely destroyed there wil be no personnel to extract another Neo out of the Matrix. Here is the solution.

The Machines do want to destroy Zion; in fact, they have destroyed Zion many times over. The difference THIS time is that in M2 the Architect gives Neo a forced choice. Either he can return to the source and all of Zion will be destroyed (but not the human power cells), and he will be allowed to extract a certain small number of humans with which he will will be able to regenerate Zion. The Machine Mind is a participant in this process since it is needed to program the humans at the time of their extraction with sufficient knowledge about how to live in Zion for Zion to be self-sufficient, etc. Neo is reabsorbed, i.e. the patterns of his neocortex are digitized and integrated into the Machine Mind, now that his "real life" experiences can be used to refresh the template for a new, upgraded matrix. This is how things have always worked.

In M2, however, Neo has fallen in love with Trinity. Neo chooses to go through the other door--the "Trinity" door--and the Architect says that if Neo chooses this door all of humanity will be destroyed. For the first time ever, the Neo makes this choice, he puts his love of Trinity on a higher level than his love of humanity. That choice changes everything.

Neo may not completely believe, too, that all of humanity will be destroyed. I think he tends to regard it more as a risk than a done deal, for, after all, it is the Architect who is telling him this, and the Architect doesn't know everything, can't know everything, and, in fact, can't even grasp how a choice can lead to unpredictable consequences--he is a program after all who the Oracle says cannot see beyond choice.

Let's take a look at a related question about Zion. Why does the Machine Mind wish to destroy Zion? It needs to destroy Zion to prevent Zion from getting too much power. How would Zion get too much power? Through memory. The longer Zion exists generationally, the more powerful it necessarily becomes because it integrates more and more knowledge about how the Machine Mind works.

The whole world projected in this series of movies is incredibly depressing as far as the fate of humanity is concerned. There seems not to be a glimmer of hope anywhere. Except now. We do get a glimmer, metaphorically. When Trinity & Neo turn their ship upward to avoid the onslaught of sentinels emanating from the Machine City, Trinity gets a glimpse of sunlight over and above the dark cloud that entombs the earth's surface. The big peace deal permits, for the first time ever, the continued existence of Zion.

If Zion continues to exist, then it is reasonable to believe that human knowledge, based on experience and memory of that experience, will increase exponentially, creating innumerable scenarios for future movies exploring whether Zion can reassert control over the machines, or whether the machines can be induced to give up the use of humans as power cells, or forced to. There can be struggles within Zion about what the proper course of action should be, with rebels working at the margins. What would the machine response be?

But what about the light sentinal?

My question is why do they refer to Jesus Christ in Revo......
Do they believe in religion or what?
I mean wouldnt this have been from the Matrix world

.......but one thing i am not sure of is that when in the real world they showed the sun then i had the feel that the peace would be re-estd. rather firmly by clearing the sky and the deal would be that of solar energy......but they estd. the peace on a rather loose note.........bcoz its shown in the anmatrix also and in revolutions that machines dont want to harm humans by rama-kandra...........

I agree completely about showing the sun & the dramatic point that scene made in the movie. It's just a hope, however, since there is no evidence that clearly suggests that the human power cells will be given up. Only if the humans themselves decide to leave the matrix. Still, that's something, and offers optimism.

Couldn't that be because when Neo meets the Architect he actually needs to go through the right door to "reboot" mankind. But he takes the left one to save Trinity. So the Oracle possible could not know the "right-door-future" since all the other "Neos" walked out the the left door.

She states that she didn't know what would happen... she only hoped that she'd be correct. And there are no other Neos!

YES! That's exactly correct.

Correct again.




We know, do we not? that there have been previous matrices. Agent Smith tells us that in M1. Also we are told in M2 that the matrix is very old, etc. There are numerous other little hints.

Also, we know that Zion expects to see The One. That expectation had to be programmed into Zion when Neo extracted them when Zion began.

So, yes, of course there have been other Neos. Every time there's a new matrix there's got to be a new Neo, since the new matrix could not exist without the new neocortex the last Neo provided.

There's a whole lot of unresolved interpretive problems to the storyline if there's only one Neo. Nothing would make any sense.

There hasn't been other Neo's there has been other ones, but not other Neos

OK, How are they ment too ask all the people in the matrix if they want too be in the real world!?!??! The Artcitect said he would set them free , if they wanted to be freed?

So in the matrix world are they gonna do some kinds Live Tanoy Broadcast??

"whos wants to see the real world' 'if you do please tale the pill'

No....I don't think that's how it would be....I think the Oracle meant ppl who discover it by accident, or for some reason get contacted by Zion! That's what u have to assume!

Fair enough. I didn't mean to say the One would be exactly the same human being each time. Just that there would be someone who would answer to the purpose of Neo. On the other hand, we don't know, do we, that the next One would not also be called Neo. Also, we don't know whether the Machine Mind has not found a way to clone and then modify the DNA of the next human marked for Neohood, do we?

The choice could be made manifest to the human power cells. Cells could go psychotherapy, for example, a conversation might ensue, and if it seemed as if the cells were unhappy with their lives in any profound way, the psychotherapist could suggest the option of entering a new sort of reality. Just take this here blue pill. Just remember, however, there will be no going back, (or would there?)

Refresh my memory about what this is.

It is the sentinel that flies through Neo and the Logos without destroying any of the ship or neo...

I just don't recall anythng like that. Maybe give me more information about the scene, which movie, etc., if you don't mind.

In Revolutions, when Neo and Trinity are flying towards 01, and the sentinels have attacked the ship, a Sentinel flies through the windsheild, through Neo, and then out the back of the ship, and Neo convulses and Trinity grabs his hand.

Yeah what the hell was up with that? I haven't even thought of anything that could explain what that was about...Was that like how one of the previous Ones died or something?

OK I just read all these pages and it kinda a blur, in a way. Maybe too much info at once. Anyway I have two questions.

In reloaded when neo fights all the smiths the first time, does that mean if he let smith "assimilate" him or whatever then the smith program would of been deleted then and there, since they are "1 and -1" to use prev. example, then the attack on zion would never of happened?

and


If the architect had no choice because he is in fact a program doesn't that mean everything he does is already predetermined and is already known by the machines and since he "promised" the oracle that he'd let the ones who wanted to be free to become free doesn't that mean he shoudl've already of known everything that was going to happen and therefore the machines should have known everything that was going to happen, especially with neo and smith?

sorry if these are completely off or dont make sense, but these were just my two questions.

Also to put another thing about neo being dead, I think that Neo is dead especially using the whole Jesus Christ referecnes.

Pleasde correct me if on wrong on some of this.

Jesus died, was buried, came back in 3 days.

Neo died, came back in 3 minutes. (M1) The fact of the matter i s, is that Neo already died and returned to free the people.

Morpheus - "we have released more people in 6months than we ever have" (something like that) (M3 i think)

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Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel
There hasn't been other Neo's there has been other ones, but not other Neos
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And what about the other Neos on the screens in the Architechts
room?!
They show the reactions of the other anomoly's that came before, and they ALL look like Neo. So infact it's always the same person that's reborn. Only the mind is different.

SO what was that light sentinal all about wat went through Neo?!?!?!

What did it do?! What was it?

They were his choices, there would only have been 5 others not however many moniters there were.