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Since it wasnt specified if the humans would live above ground or just stay in ZION so im assuming they are staying in ZION and after seeing the real worl how messed up it is, Damn it was messed up, given a choice would u get out of the Matrix now knowing that you could get out whenevr u want(Oracle-" Waht about the minds that want to be freed?" Architect-" Theyll be freed i supposed"(someething like that)) would u get out of the Matrix? Given the choice of being freed and live in a freaking cave because thats what Zion is, a giant freaking cave OR Stay in the Matrix? that while fake we Know would about it but we would have the choice to leave whenever we want, Im stayin In, when they and if ever rebuild the real worl THEN ill get out.

Id stay in it. The real world looks like total crap.

I know and from a learning stand point theres nothing really u could learn about our past in Zion but in the Matrix the have libararies about our past and we could also learn from the machines!

Id get out....i dont like the fact that machines are suckign the life out of me...basicly i live so that i can provide them with energy... no way...

Id like to get plugged into Matrix from time to time however....just for the coolness factor....lol

real world = sh!t hole
i would wanna leave, learn kung-fu and shit, learn how to run up walls and such, then go back in for good

Its all fung fu with dave...and Neo is an expert in jiu- jitsu

I'd want to do the same but now there is no point in going back in. They have no ships anyway.

yeah, Fung fu is cool

I cant believe everyone would take the blue pill..

if morpheus had a picture of the real world, think neo would have taken that red pill? he finds out when its too late, cypher was the only smart person

Cypher had the right idea, he was just an idiot about it. Plus if he would have killed Neo everyone else would have died too, right?

No. Neo wasn't the One yet, he hadn't assimilated the anomaly.

Me? Out! What other option is there? Anyone who'd take the blue pill are basically saying they'll believe anything that isn't real.

computer games are poplular cos the real world sux

you would go back to be sucked dry by machines.....thats poo!
YOu get to eat pizza i suppose...but still....i would still want out....

"No. Neo wasn't the One yet, he hadn't assimilated the anomaly."

What? So they wouldn't have died? If this is true then back to my original question a couple of days ago. Why couldn't the agents just take over Neo and kill Morpheus when he is talking about the rabbit hole and the pills?

yeah agreed...

besides, Smith would have still (probably) got out..if they killed Neo, Smith would get the codes from Morpheus so hed get free after the Zion is destroyed...

they cant kill morpheus till they get codes..if they dont get codes, the agents would have got delited after zion was destroyed...

Xeous> The agents didn't want to KILL Morpheus, they wanted the access codes to Zion. Hence the reason Neo was bugged in M1. The agents knew he was "their next target", and hoped Neo would lead them straight to Morpheus.
The system isn't watching every single tiny part of the Matrix all the time ("Detective's story" and "Beyond" from Animatrix). It watches areas. Otherwise the rebels hacking the Matrix would've been killed long ago, and there would be no need for bugs or tracers.

When the bug is removed, Neo is freed before the system "finds" him again.

So then why couldn't they have taken over Neo(he was still plugged in) then killed the other crew members, done their thing to Morpheus(like in M1). They couldn't have been stopped then...

Ah whatever...

The system isn't watching every single tiny part of the Matrix all the time ("Detective's story" and "Beyond" from Animatrix). It watches areas. Otherwise the rebels hacking the Matrix would've been killed long ago, and there would be no need for bugs or tracers.

When the bug is removed, Neo is freed before the system "finds" him again.

''When the bug is removed, Neo is freed before the system "finds" him again.'' and thats whats so cool...

Even though Zion is a mess now, and everything that happened 5 times before happened again in a way (the zion is 'destroyed' and there are people left alive to rebuild it...sagnificantly more now than before, but still..) i think getting unplugged is still my first option....

zion is a sh!thole, why would anyone WANT to live there?

How can the world get rebuilt if there are no human beings to help? Free human beings...I take the red pill. And more, Zion is like a big family. What would you choose? A world where you know no one or a world where everyone is your friend?

the people in zion have names like mouse, WTF??? thats another reason to stay in the matrix..... and plus it would really suck taking a red pill waking up all bald and naked, falling into a pool of red crap

Yes, i would definitely choose the real world, even if it meant glop everyday and the fear that humanity could be destroyed by the machines at any time...but you already knew i was going to say that, didn't you?

What would have happened to Neo, or anyone, if they left the bug in him and unplugged him? Would it have prevented him from leaving, or what?

leaving the bug in him meant that, an agent coulda waited until they were in the room with Morph and then taken over Neo, and killed everyone easily.

That's what I thought, I didn't know if it served as any prevention of unpluggation. (hah, new word) Guess I just thought to much about it!

if i was aware that i was in the matrix, and ableto bend the rules of logic. there is no way i'd want to leave. I'd make a program for me with a mansion on the beach with carri-ann-moss as my bit*ch along with a truck full of other hotties. However after everyone figures out that they can break the laws of gravity it wouldprobably become a little crowded and dangerous,so i guess i would eventually want to be unplugged for that reason.

I'd get out! Even if the conditions in Zion were crappy!...Doesn't matter....Who would want to live a lie?! But oh well!...I guess the theme is pretty subjective...

most people live lie's daily, and are totally aware of it

Yes, I'd go for unpluggation
They have raves with 250.000 people?!?!?!? And priestjim has a very valid point, too.

JediHdm> Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't, would I?

Subjective theme threads are the ones that have traffic, Verity.

Omega> yup, unpluggations for me

you're all mad! the matrix is much better than the real world!

Being deluded is not always a bad thing

Unpluging means sacrifices and stuff....and a pair cool shades when you plug back in from time to time..

Good. I see that there are many who want to be freed. This is not the real world. The Matrix movie is real. Come with me. I have a bunch of red pills here

hey now, man, im not so sure i should take some red pill-looking thingies from just ANYONE...what have you done to make me trust you?

Blue pill for me. Did you see that fine ass chik in the red dress? i mean damn come on. Imagine the possibilities. Anything you want,or some ragged ass clothes. and your body stays perserved and healthy in incubation for when you finally want to be unplugged. Staying in the matrix is win win baby. You can become the smartest man in the world by staying in the matrix. You can download information on everything known in the world into your mind.

neurofen tablets looks EXACTLY like a red pill.....didnt take me to the rabbit hole, but it sure stoped my hear from hurting...

priestjim, id like one...if its a real one

Aren't XTC pills blue?

"Blue pill for me. Did you see that fine ass chik in the red dress? i mean damn come on. Imagine the possibilities. Anything you want,or some ragged ass clothes. and your body stays perserved and healthy in incubation for when you finally want to be unplugged. Staying in the matrix is win win baby. You can become the smartest man in the world by staying in the matrix. You can download information on everything known in the world into your mind."

shame the woman in red is only in a construct in the real world nice to see i'd have some company and i hope everyone enjoys their yearly bread

nope.... blue..they arent blue...

I usually like to get away from that!

you cant d-load stuff if your are plugged in...they control you....

dont quote me quoting someone else!!! and u can download information, such as the agents are downloaded onto their hosts, but I know everything anyway

sorryyyyyyyyy dave!

Maybe the matrix is rebuilt, and we are told from the beggining we give energy to the machines and machines give us a new world to live in. Although digital, it is a better place than the exterior and if Matrix really changes maybe there won't be the crappy things implicit in our society. So we live in simbiosis, that would be the ideal thing.

For a free Matrix.

like that other theory says....why do machines need energy...what are they doing with it

Running! If I plug my computer out it's not going to do much...

(Peers at screen and tower)

true, but it doesnt need your body energy to work...or a solar one..its night here..mine is doing a good job by itself....god, i hope im not plugged into it...

hmm..yeh..true true..needs energy to run...everything does..but....again, there are so many ways to get energy.. other than humans i mean....

how come no one objected when they enslaved 3 billion people...what did they use as source of energy while they were kfighting man kind..was there resistance?! so what source of energy did they use while they were fighting..when..the..sky was..scorched(sp) ...

nuclear?
bah, cant sleep

the energy from the nukes sent by humans, perhaps?

yeah....thought that...''reserved energy'' i did a project on 'reserved energy'' did really good too

anyway.....6 billion people...there had to be a resistance longer then few days... if there was one....how much energy did they have reserved....there must have been a war....
what a stupid thing to do, scorche a sky..when WE need sun tio live...how dumb can you get...there is no living on earth even if there was no machines....lets schorge the sky and all die..
be interested to know who striked first..my money is on humans....

All i know is the machines have a whole world and the humans have a stinking overcrowded cave!

I think I would stay, but I would hope now that there is no war, they could rebuild the place a little better.

If i were given the choice Neo was given with the blue or red pill. Im positive i would have taken the red pill, but after about two hours after taking the red pill im sure i'd be like "hey man let me get some of those blue pills"

Nope. The people of Zion would want to give ME the Blue Pill, when I wake up, find out there is no coffee and get morning-cranky!

Maybe they have some soy-coffee?

id stay in, ignorance is bliss...




priestjim>Aren't XTC pills blue?
not necessarily they can be different colors, sometimes with speckles.

i want out even though its not comfy and all there is one thing i wud want to see "what is real????"

and then imagine how disappointed you'd feel when you realize the sort of life you'd have to leve in Zion...

Truth prevails over comfort to me.....I've never been in a comfort zone anyway!

Right on, Verity!
Hard truth to comfy lies all the time.

The Omega>Hard truth to comfy lies all the time.


you know when you dont want to get out of bed sometimes cos its so comfy and you wish you could stay in bed forever instead of facing the cold,hard world...?

oh, i just spend most of the day asleep (im a student btw)

i'll get just for the heck of all those training... besides, i can go in and out anyways... and i pretty much keep to mysaelf, so freeing minds would be a very rare activity of mine...

"the mind has troubles letting go..."

but the original question was 'after revolutions would you really want to get out?'


that means, would you want to be free during the civil war we know is going to happen from 'matrix online'.


of course you wouldnt! who wants to live in a war?!

there is war where ever you will go... you think the machines will not try to over run/ hack/ delete each other..? the machine AI was made by humans ergo they will have human tendencies... so, if i die in the matrix or in zion, it doesn't really matter, either ways i'm dead... but i'd rather die knowing the truth...

Mook> Whereas there is no war in the Matrix?
Recreated based on the various grotesqueries of human nature!

...
I'd rather fight a real war than a virtual one, that happened centuries ago, and the outcome of which is predetermined by a chip.

The Matrix is basically like a computer game so more people would stay in (ie. Me) for the coolness factor

hell yeah!

i wud rather face the truth rather than just lie around soaking in goo and let myself be ruled by the machinesssssss..........
even tho zion is not all that "comfy" it doesnt matter bcoz currently also life aint smooth........

The "coolness" factor of the Matrix program?
Where?

The Omega>Whereas there is no war in the Matrix?

although war can and has happened within the Matrix it is not guaranteed.

Outside the Matrix you are guaranteed to live in poor conditions within a poor environment. food, clothing etc are less and to a worse quality.

because of Matrix Online you will be living in a civil war.



therfore id much rather stay in the matrix

it is in human nature to create war... in all of earth's existence, the world was only at peace for 8% of the time... guess what we're doing 92% of the time..? where there is man, there is war... i am not trying to desuade your decision to stay in the matrix, i'm just stating the fact that war-- within the matrix or zion-- is inevitable...

Omega> "Coolness Factor" - Having the ability to do the sort of things that Neo can do, punch through walls etc. Uploading anything you want into The Matrix.

perhaps but it could not happen for ages in the matrix
outside it is happening now/soon.

Yeah but u can still die! I consider some things about Zion cool- for instance....the robots they use to fight the sentinels....the hovercrafts....stuff like that! SO there's good in both worlds, if u look for it.
The question is.....do u like to live in a lie, or would u rather struggle to remain free- in opposition to being a slave for the rest of your life?....

HAS NO ONE GIVEN THE THOUGHT THAT NEO COULDNT TAKE THE F****** BLUE PILL BECAUSE THE AGENT"S WOULD STILL BE AFTER HIM!? AND NOT ONLY IF HE DID TAKE IT! HE WOULD"VE NOT REMEBERED THE DANGER OF THE AGENTS....

well, i think he won't remember anything... not morpheus, not trinity, not the white rabbit... so for the agents chasing him, that would just be without purpose...

and i think that he could've taken that blue pill as much as he could've taken the red pill...

"the problem is choice"... he CHOSE not to take the blue pill...

The Omega> of course they will pick peace... who wants to die in battle..? i, for one don't... but wether we like it or not, there are some people out there with ideals that they blindly believe in, they are willing to wage war just see a glimpse of it... it is not up to you or me to start or stop war as we see fit... it is our leaders... and what do men with power want... that's right, MORE power...

So what happens if a life overlapps the century? Would they get their minds erased? IE If someone is born in 1986 (my year ) they would be 14 when the next centruy comes...

i get ignored a lot...

How anyone would take a lie over the truth? Easy. To make their lives better. A lot(and I mean A LOT) of people would rather live in a "perfect" world than in Zion. My opinion is pretty much switching daily...

Xeous> And the Matrix is perfect? Our world - as it existed in the 20th century is perfect?????

Omega, why would you want to live in a world where machines dominate the earth, u live in caves, ur hunted down, and the parties have tons of black guys jumping up in the air!? I'd rather live in a pod where I thought that the world was the way it was!

Yes Omega, compaired to the only other thing that humans knoa(Zion) it would be perfect...I wouldn't be able to stand living underground and never seeing the sun...Even if the sun wasn't real.

Xeous> The sun in the Matrix is - as you say - not real either. So a lie is fine with you as long as you don't know it's a lie?

As I said...My opinion has been bouncing to and frow...But I believe that's the general opinion.

What do you mean by "general opinion"?

The people who would want to stay in the matrix-that's their opinion. They'd rather live the lie as long as they didn't know it was a lie.

Wars, famine, hunger-plagues, racism, slaves...All happened through the entire history of man. Not just the 20th century. Man isn't perfect so wouldn't his perfect world be flawed?

Hell yes. Just to know I'm making a difference than sitting about doing nothing wasting my life.

How long would this peace last? I would get out the second I'm given the chance. The Architect said in Reloaded that they can pull the plug, killing off the human race and find a new energy source. I don't wanna be one of those people.

Wasn't he bluffing?

Its nearly impossible to find an energy resource in that scorched earth. The only way would probably to go above the black sky and build some solar genrating machines

ask any soldier in war, anybody in war if they want peace or war... what do you think they'll pick..? do they contradict themselves despite the fact that they are indeed fighting in a war, they also want peace... the only road to peace is heavily laden with war... take for example the matrix... for 100 years they have fought these machines... for what..? peace, which they achieved... but what happens next..? as most of us know somewhere along the story in the matrix online, a civil war... we may pick peace over war, but the only way to peace is through war as witnessed in the matrix trilogy...

hey omega, where are you???

Get out. No matter what i ate in the Matrix i would still remember that i was living on the liquefied remains of the dead.

But i guess that's why Cipher asked that his memory be erased once back in the Matrix. And then again what is the recycled water we drink anyway.

old men in bunkers believe that the only way to achieve more power is thru war... wether or not i pick peace, as a soldier i would have no other choice but to fight... people will pick peace, but it won't be evrlasting because it's in our nature to wage war... we FIGHT to keep the peace, we FIGHT to achieve peace... there's no going around it... wether they pick peace, we WILL wage war... it is inevitable...

BTW, i find our debates intellectually stimulating... keep it up...

The Omega> i'll tell you why... SURVIVAL. and just like the programs inherent to the programming of the matrix, some are prominent and some are not. so is the desire to wage war. it is in our nature to do so though it's more prominent in others. i agree that war doesn't erupt just like that. there are peace keepers. but what if the negotiations failed, what then? more negotiations? i think not.

and as a soldier, i will not choose court marshall before fighting and be labeled as unpatriotic and cowardly. signing up in the army in the first place would've been stupid if i don't want to fight. "old men" made these laws not to kill, but to put blame and guilt.

and the gulf war 2 is the perfect example that war is in our blood. everything that could be done to prevent this war was done but still america invaded. after all the inspections and pleas not to invade a sovereign country, it still happened.

there is no going around it. war will be waged, wether for survival or more power, it will happen.

>Omega -- while I would love to agree with you and like your explanation, I fear that war IS our nature -- have you ever watched a group of 2-year-old interacting? Fighting seems much more "natural" than cooperation, and it takes a lot of work by parents, teachers, to make us "civil". Just think "Lord of the Flies"...

We didn't all kill ourselves early in civilization because logic told us that if we could overcome the urge to kill each other and cooperate, we would be better off.

I'm hopeful that the same logic will eventually allow to overcome these tendencies as expressed on a national scale, but I'm not holding my breath.

Life is a battle whether you are a wage slave or fighting a real war. I would prefer that the battle not be imaginary. Pain makes you realize that you are alive and appreciate the small comforts you have. Out of The Matrix for me!

these "guardians of the grain", these "leaders" do dictate our course. but if war is not in our nature, why is it still here, in our midst, in our society? you think people in africa fight for "grains", for "livelyhood", for a way of living? they do it to survive. if the other tribe is weak, it is purged. you say it's in the blood of these "guardians of the grain" and talk about them as if they aren't part of the human race. these "guardians" invented the first soldier to survive the one year of failed crops, either to gather or protect. and this does quench my thirst, fill my stomach, and the survival of my people.

and it doesn't matter what i think. it doesn't matter what you think. all that matters is what our leaders think. and no, man is not inherently evil. evil is planted into the soul. but what if you enemy thinks you're evil, and you think they're evil? i doubt the both of you will want to negotiate. no one of you would want to back down. what is left is battle.

hey has anyone read the matrix book "matrix warrior: Being the one"?

i would always be hooking up to the matrix and upgrading my abilities and do crazy things in the matrix

the directors choice.

Confronted with Neo's choice, which would you choose?

WachowskiBros: "Blue pill."