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ok, now this is my theory....the oracle says that Mr. Smith is Neo's opposite or negative. at the end of "Reloaded" the architect says that everything in the matrix is mathematically set up and that everything can be explained through a mathematical equation. my theory is that because Mr. Smith is Neo's opposite or "negative" as the Oracle says, that when he copies Neo "the positive" he is thus making 2 negatives and thus making a positive and therefore canceling himself out. he (Mr. Smith) was able to see through the oracle's eyes that this event was the end although not being able to see his own demise; he just didn't see his own "choice" to copy Neo and cancel himself out by the mathematical equation of 2 negatives equal a positive. does this make sense to anyone or am i just way off?? please respond....thanks!!!!

negative + positive = neutral

i was just about to post that...DAMN YOU FUNNY BOY......DAMN YOU (funny boy is dave)

negative times negative equals positive
(-) x (-) = (+)
when copying something ur making a duplicate not just adding the things together, ur taking 2 or more things and multiplying them by each other to get a result

too slow

why are you timsing negatives, neo is positive
plus it is addition, think about atoms

Neo is positive, not negative.....Mr. smith is Neo's negative"opposite"

Neo is not number one(1)........HE IS "THE" ONE.
think variables here...they are X and -X

I don't buy this anti-virus program loaded into Neo business. If that were the case, why not load that program into any one else connected to the Matrix? If they had that program they could have loaded it into an agent for a suicide mission to have it intentionally get taken over by Smith... Game Over. I have only seen the movie twice, but after Smith assimilates Neo, back in the real world something is going on. Light goes in or out Neo or whatever (like feedback or something) Neo struggles around a bit in his "crucifixion" chair and then back in the Matrix Neo-Smith eyes start glowing then he splits into fragments like Smith did at the end of M1. Originally, I thought the positive Neo and negative Smith just cancelled each other out, but clearly something was happening in the real world. It really bothers me that I don't understand it. Presumably the Machines and Neo combine forces somehow to defeat Smith. But how??????

Yeah... where did anti-virus come from? Once Smith cloned himself onto Neo, couldn't those spasms have been from Smith trying to get into the Machine city ("He has spread throughout the Matrix and will into this city. You cannot stop him, but I can" but Neo stopped him somehow? Bane's self-conscious couldn't have been deleted, as Neo's couldn't have been. Bane might have been in the back of his head just looking and seeing what was going on while Smith controlled him.
Has anyone read the Animorphs series? Just like Yeerks!!

Smith returned in Reloaded because he was compelled to disobey. He says it was purpose that created us and without purpose we wouldn't exist. His new purpose or objective in his programming was to destroy Neo. In M3, after assimilating him, he has completed his ultimate goal and has lost purpose. Ergo he has no reason to exist and explodes/deletes/selfdestruct/etc. This would explain why he thinks its a trick and thinks its unfair.

The theory about Smith being his opposite would probably explain why Smith is so strong because he inheritted Neo's powers in M1.

I don't believe in the anti-virus theory because little evidence from the movie supports it.

Lite-x2x, I completely agree with you. There is no evidence for this anti-virus theory... purpose is what the movies are all about, and that's a perfect explination for it!

lite> the only reason we call it an "anti-virus" is that, Neo is taken over by Smith, then the cords send a shockwave of light, some kind of coding, into Neo, and he begins to glow then...

OOooo I get it.. but I still agree with lite's theory better.. sorry Jedi. The shockwave of light I think is just Smith trying to access the 01 mainframe but being rejected and being forced back into Neo... then wiping out the anomoly and creating no purpose for either of them.

It could've been shockwaves but it could've also been body movement like if he was getting shot in the Matrix. It could have been anything. You just can't be too sure of what happened. Any of these theories could be right and that is exactly why I disliked the ending but its sort of fun to try and interpret what happened.

hey guys, I'm sorry. I think I may be to blame for the Anti-virus theory. I know I'm not the only peroson to come up with the idea but I posted it. I got it from those pulses of light that jedi mentioned. I thought it made perfect sense too, until Rosewood brought up the good point that they could've probably done that through anyone else still connected to the matrix.

Well, back to square one... Anyone know how Smith got killed?

yeah, the idea by Lite makes sense, but i still cling to Nortons...afterall, it works on my PC, why not on Smith? Its like the mother of all EMP's...

wow Lite... that's a good theory. I didn't think of that. Same to you Jkozzy. On behalf of my poor theory, I now place my foot into my mouth

Simple> take your foot outta yo mouth...we've all made mistakes here *cough* MWAM *cough* but we should just forgive, forget, and move past...

mummble, mummble **oops. Takes foot out of his mouth** Ok you're right. *cough*

is it possible that since being copied, that Neo is acutally killed...therefore the shaking on his Machine hook-up into the matrix?? and he is completly gone(out of it or unconcious) when he gets un-hooked and the machines take him away....death is a strong possibility here dont u think??

I thought it was +1-1=0 and nothing is nothing so it is a new world coz the system isn't unbalanced anymore...

Yes, you guys said it yourselves, the system could not get rid of Smith because the equation was balanced. Once it was unbalanced due to the Oracle, it could be tinkered with

Smith IS Neo's opposite though, he is HIM. Just like I said those many months ago

multiple sens is the Wacho way

nice.

i dont think that there is an "Anti-virus" program, thats kinda stupid. dont try and look smith and neo as number simplily as opposits and opposits attract and ( like smith and neo) and then when they come together then they are dstroyed because the are nothing (i suppose that the variable X+(-X)=0 is the correct analogy for the equation)

EVERYTHING THAT HAS A BEGINNING HAS AN END.......

he ate too many cookies

The 'oracle' was a rouge program. The Architect was an interface with no control over the data being transferred back and forth across the bridge. The Trainman was the DB management program. Smith was a subroutine created by the 'oracle' ("hello mother!". The oracle was already aware of the consequences of her actions and NEO was the pattern she based the Smith program against. The AI in the programs gave them a conscience. Her conscience was that the humans were not to be used as resources against their will because her basic programming was about choice. The humans were never given a choice. Neo was plugged into the MainFrame. Once Smith aquired NEO the MAinframe once again had control over the Smith program, and deleted him. All the clones were rid of the Smith override program, including the oracle.
The only thing I dont understand is how a program gets addicted to cigarettes. And the original actor for the oracle was in the trailers and previews for part 3. Did she have last minute negotiation problems like Dozer?

I don't get it. Could you rephrase that, cuz my brain is dead?

I believe in the antivirus - but not an antivirus program persay. I think it was a bit more complicated. It was Neo and the machines working together. Neo obviously DOES have the power to do things like that in the Matrix, just look how he oiginally entered Smith and altered him. With the help of the machines perhaps he destroyed him correctly this time, he "entered" the Smith program one last time, so to speak.

u guys, when copying something u are combining things to get one output, ur not adding positives and negatives here u are multiplying...ur not balancing the system, ur cancling things out

What trailers? I'm unaware of any Revolutions trailers where the Oracle wasn't Mary Alice....
And Dozer DIED in M1.. do you mean Tank?

I think it comes down to matter and antimatter. Neither can exist in the same space with each other without resulting in some type of explosion/elimination. That is why Neo allowed himself to become infected by Smith. With that happening the Matrix, I would still give Neo credit for understanding this, in of itself automatically eliminated the problem. I believe it filtered down into the other Smith's because of the cloned connection they shared through similar code. Destroy the head and the body will follow.

wait i dont get this unbalanced thing.. if the machines couldnt intervene while the system is unbalanced then why dont tehy kill neo when he approaches them, the system is then unbalanced and they can kill smith? am i missing somethin?

Neo is man, whereas smith isn't...he has a human form, which neo kills but as a program....he is far to strong for the machines to control. therefore they need Neo to destroy what they cannot, smith already controls the matrix "like what i've done with the place", it is all his and he masters it as the "trainman" masters his domain. neo is the only thing that can stop him, thus the machines need him...

Perhaps the machines couldn't load the coding to destory Smith into just anyone. Maybe the only machinery that they had to do it was where Neo was jacked in. Or maybe it could only be done to the anomaly. There are many possible reasons why they chose to only use Neo.

Hello all,
First time post so take it easy on my theory.

I have read into all your theories and they are all awesome, made me think of scenarios I wouldn't have normally thought of on my own.

If you want to hack into a system or get into the code of a system, in order to get where you need to be to understand and manipulate that code one would have to ride/connect through a backdoor or frontdoor to access and delete an error or code in general.

I am throwing the idea that Neo/Smith code provided through the direct connection of Neo (and the Smith encapsulating Neo deal) was able to access and delete the anomoly. Without the addition of Smiths code to Neo's the machine or even Neo couldn't delete or manipulate the code (smith) and even to delete (multiple smiths) themselves.

In that Case Neo made (or understood) the choice to be cloned so that he can access Smith's code and put a choice to delete once their job (purpose) is complete. If he (Smith) completed his job (defeat neo) then the result is that he fulfilled his purpose.

Well it sounds good anyway.

for one thing, no one could hav gotten to the machine city without being blown to pieces by those bombs except for Neo. He is the only one that could hav gotten that far. Then it all comes down to the purpose of a program and a person. Smith is a virus, and a viruses purpose on this ocassion is to take up everything in its path, but there is no area for it to go unless it would be to cross worlds. That would mean that Neo is the anti-virus. His purpose is to flush out the virus. Since smith already knew a part of his denstiny, he had a little problem letting go of reality, because he knew what would happen if he took over Neo. That's why he was telling Neo "Get away from me." Neo had no reason to live also, for he had lost his love, and he didnt really care if he died or not.

another thing to think about is Neo's purpose is to be a "savior", now i dont want to go religous here but there is a parallel here. in reloaded when Neo and trinity get off the elevator there are thousands of people waiting for him, he is the one..."the saviour" of the human race against the machines. Christ was the savior for man and his purpose was to die and make even for our sins...Neo did die, and it was to save mankind...the same theory. make sense??

Yes i never thought of that.

Wow, really awesome first post dude... WELCOME!

Thanks Jkozzy!

Yeah, just like JediHDM said. And now Neo has ascended and is part of the Matrix as a higher being.

Can any of you smart ones tell me how on Earth Smith was able to copy himself and Neo could/would not?

And I do not have the ETM so can someone fill me in with the train bomb in the sense of why is time such a big deal with him?

THX in advance.

Because Smith is a virus and Neo isn't...
and what do you mean about the train bomb?

SOmeone posed a good question. Why did'nt the machine LEader just Kill Neo Before making the Deal for Peace.

WIth Neo Dying in the REAL world his connection to machine city(which seems to be wireless) would have died too right?

Or are we supposed to be under the Idea that if Neo Died in the Real world then, his digital self would still be alive, just as long as his dead body's plugged in??

Did they ever say Smith was a virus in the movie?

aczwild> Welcome!

If Smith and Neo are like equations, the Matrix would be totally unbalanced. Think of it.

20,000,000 Smiths (-1)=1 Neo (1)

No way does that equal out.

I thought of that last night.

ok, well since i explained this along time ago and nobody understood, we are "multiplying" here, not adding or subtracting. all the smiths are as one unit and thus the (-) and neo is the positive (+). when smith copies Neo, he is cancling himself out by multiplying 2 negatives by themselves. that is why he dies.... (-) x (-) = (+). he cancles himself out by taking away what balanced himself out.

xeous> thats why only ONE Smith fights Neo, cause only ONE is needed to balance the equation...

and that means what Captainjedi??? what did u say that i didn't??

no, you didn't...they are not multiplying, or adding or subtracting, anything. it is coding being balanced. all that is needed is Smiths "inevitability" ego, being canceled by Neo's selfless sacrifice. if you look at it in math in any way, look at it as 0 * 1/0 = 1 in that, Smith is zero trying to reach infinity, and failing, whereas Neo is infinitely powerful, but unable to understand his power, canceling each other out to make 1, a better Neo that has ascended.

so are u saying Neo is dead, if so i agree. and u have no choice but to look at it as math, the Architect says that is how everything is setup....mathematically; you have to explain it with math.

No, but that's what he is, a viral program.

there is a couple things i dont understand but im only gonna ask one question now .... How exactly are Neo and Smith opposites and equals.......When single handedly Neo handled about 70 or so smiths by himselves without breaking a sweat .....AND THEN AND ONLY WHEN smith takes over the oracles body does he become any where as strong as neo ...maybe (i dont like what im about to say for some reason) Even Stronger than him......Not equals untill he takes over the oracle...

He may have been stronger in Reloaded but didn't fight with full strength. Because they're opposites, it doesn't mean they're equal in strength. Their existence balanced the equation.

good enuf answer ....... And i think that smith taking over Neo being pluged into The Mian Master machine or whatever hes called ...... allowed the master machine to delete smith ...because now smith was pluged into the master machine...and of course the smiths are connected....and Neo is dead either from 1 or two reasons....smith copied himself ....remeber what neo said "it felt like i was back in that hallway ...it felt like dying" ..... DYING (if thats spelled right). or he was killed thru that whole deletion process....... and the matrix was re made in a 7th version .... meaning there will be another 1 ..... and i dont think that little girl is the 1 ... i think she is the program that is saposed to take care of the sunsets and sunrises and things like that...... just my thoery

Anyone figure out what truly happened yet from a script or something?

The Matrix wasn't reloaded. I, and many others such as JediHDM, believe that he's somewhere in the Matrix, and his physical body only died, but his mind is merged with the Matrix.

I think that Sati isn't the "Sunset Queen"...I think that she might be a personification of Love or Beauty, which a machine would not think of as being a purpose...

i agree with Khellhound's theory of Sati, that makes sense...

i also dont think that being hooked in at different places in the Matrix makes a difference, the main machine couldn't delete smith no matter what was going on...that is why he needed Neo

I'm pretty sure that Neo represents Jesus Christ. Here's my take on the matter:
In the original "The Matrix," this was somewhat incorporated into the story. The One had come before and had set some people free. After he died, the Oracle prophesized that he would return, and that his return would be the triumph of good over evil. Also, Neo dies and is resurrected. That's about it for the Christ references in the first movie. I think the Wachowski brothers had an idea that Neo would be a Jesus figure, but with the making of "Reloaded" and "Revolutions" they decided to make the story a sci-fi Jesus story.
I knew this for sure as soon as I saw the Architect. He's an old white guy with a white beard who "created the Matrix." He is quite clearly God. And if you listen to his monologue about twelve times like I have, it starts to make a bit of sense if you know that his entire monologue is an allegory. He says that the first Matrix he created was "quite naturally perfect." (Garden of Eden). But humans didn't accept the program (Man cannot live in the Garden of Eden, falls). There followed a horrific program, which was the Wachowskis' explanation for ghosts, werewolves, vampires, and all those other things that attack Neo in "Reloaded" (I can't think of any Biblical equivalent for this part).

As I am out of space I shall try to continue this on another post. I'm just getting started.

So the third Matrix gave humans Choice. But choice created imperfections in the equation (SIN!). Therefore, the Architect made the One, who was the "remainder of an unbalanced equation" (Jesus must die for the sins of humanity). This was pretty upsetting to Morpheus and other believers, who had trusted the Oracle's prophesy that the One would bring about the end of the Machines' rule. Back in the early A.D. years, the Hebrews prayed for the prophesized coming of the Messiah, whom they expected to create the Kingdom of God on Earth and overthrow those evil Romans (represented by the Machines). Jesus, however, died instead for the sins of humanity. This made a lot of Hebrews angry because they wanted the Roman Empire overthrown. In the same sense, Morpheus and friends aren't happy with the news Neo brings back from the Architect: he's not supposed to save anyone, he's just supposed to balance out the equation and get the Matrix working right again.
Smith is the Anti-Christ. He is the embodiment of the unbalancing of the equation and spreads throughout the Matrix, just as the Anti-Christ is supposed to be the embodiment of sin and spread throughout the world. So, in a last effort to save his creation, the Architect (God) sends Neo (Jesus) back to the Matrix (Earth) to fight Smith (the Anti-Christ) in a super-cool fight scene (the Apocalypse). The ending of this fight I still have no clue about, what it's supposed to mean either in Matrix or in Biblical terms, though I've found the debate on this forum very interesting.
Along these lines:
The Merovingian is the Devil. I know it doesn't quite fit with the storyline but that costume he wears in "Revolutions" is very Satanic-looking.

ok, first things first: the merovingian is not, repeat not, the Devil. He may be Hades-like, but he is not the Devil. The difference is, Hades was not evil. the Devil is Evil. the Merovingian is not evil, he just does what he needs to do. next, while Neo may be 'like' Jesus, he is not "the jesus figure'. He is as much Mohammed, Buddha or Confuscius as he is Jesus.

could this get any more confusing??

Confusion comes when we try to see a religious figure in the movie. The movie uses religous names but not the theme. it is spiritual theme (spiritual means quest without a beleif system). If we look matrix from a religous point of view then some questions are answered and others remian unanswered and confusing. The same is when the matrix is just viewed as a science fiction.

The whole answers comes when we view it from a man's eternal quest of the universe, his mystery and purpose of life. Then it makes sense.

Neo undergoes a journey of that inner quest and all that symbolsims is in tune with that.

when life arose in this earth there was perfect balance until man started creating havoc to the environment. This is why smith says Human is the cancer of the planet. We multiply like virus and kill the host. why do we disturb nature?. Because we think, peace or heaven is outside of our hearts and minds. We try to see happiness in material things and so destroy our planet resources.
Neo then goes to the source...the source where everything originates and that is consciousness. Trinity is the representation of the body that is in tune with the quest. She is the one who takes Neo to the Morpheus in the begining and that is why she dies in the end when Neo reaches the source. The quest dies when we see that we everythign is the creation of cosnciousness. God is not a human, a thing.. but pure cosnciosuness and that is the theme of matrix.

more

matrixjourney.com

WOULD YOU QUIT POSTING "MATRIXJOURNEY.COM"?!?!?! PLEASE...IT IS REALLY ANNOYING!!!!!!!

the most annoying thing is your use of material from a book about the matrix as if it is new material. Yes, you cite, every, single time, that you are refering to matrixjourney.com, but the fact that everything you say is followed by this citation tells me that you have no original thoughts. do me a favor. sit down, without the book or the internet, and just watch the movie. then, think about the movie, about books (not about the matrix) that you have read before. come up with your own ideas.

First time post reply ,,,
good theory & nice discussion
that's what i think at a moment when the movies finish (i mean the imbalance in the equ b/w smith & neo)
but later on i have more acceptable theory
-it should end normally when the artecat give neo the choice but neo take his own choice
-neo not in the equ of matrix , he is abnormal anomalous result from design the matrix
-i think smith copy not complete
inner power of neo program is their but it externally as smith, in other meaning , the first code of neo porgream be same like smith but the neo programe is thier
and after that neo has the access to inter to smith program then del them
-then the equ that become imbalanced is all matrix (smith lost) not the equ b/w neo & smith (neo not in equ of matrix )

ok, can you please work on your spelling and grammar? it is really hard to follow what you are trying to say because of your grammar. other than that, welcome!

sorry JediHDM

1-neo not a part of Balanced matrix equation
2-neo is abnormal systemic anomaly result from creating the matrix
3-from 1 to 5th edition, the matrix end when the Architect give neo the choice (door) because all of them go with rt door whereas the 6th ed take left one
4-Neo's purpose is the unbalanced equation
5-smith copied himself ..but not complete copying , the external structure of neo as program only changed whereas the internal not
6- every program made from much many codes ,only the first one of those codes changed (in neo) after copying
7-external structure of neo become identical to smith, that's allow for neo to enter in smith program as one of smith program members
8- then neo delete smith program because he now has the access to smith (connected to smith)
9-smith is apart of matrix balanced equation
10-smith lost......... lead to unbalanced equation
11- neo dieing don't effect the equation because neo not a part of Balanced matrix equation

ok, When Smith was an AGENT he could get deleted by the Machine mainframe easily, but when he came back for Neo he was no longer an agent of the system so the machine mainframe couldnt delete him, In reloaded Smith says to Neo, "Im a New Man" Unpluggged as you call it" he says somthing like that along those lines. So that would mean the Machine Mainframe couldnt touch him, and with Neos Powers what got copyed to him he was untouchable by the machines. So when Neo let smith take over him the machines had Direct contact with Smith again and could finally delete him.................

i would have to disagree with you.

1- Neo IS a part of the balanced equation. when the equation is balanced, the yin and the yang are present, and the machines cannot purge the system of either one without throwing the whole system into chaos.
2-Neo is not resulting from the creation of the matrix, but the insertion of choice into the equation.
3-no problems there
4-see above
5-i disagree. Neo and smith were balancing each other, and Smith did copy over Neo. however, the act of neo sacrificing himself so the machines could destroy Smith caused him to become greater than himself, to transcend his mortality.
6-see above
7-again, see above
8-the machines deleted Smith after the equation was unbalanced. remember what the oracle said, the architects purpose is to balance the equation, and the oracles is to unbalance it. she let smith take her over, giving him a 'vision' that she could use him to get neo to understand how he would stop smith. 'everything that has a beginning has an end'. the cycle had a beginning, thus it has an end. smith had a beginning, he has an end. Neo had a beginning, he has an end.
9-yes
10-yes
11-false. neo had to be removed from the equation to unbalance the equation.

in essence, DenKi said what i just said, but before me...hope this helped

I think its more like, when Smith took over Neo, the machines had Smith under their control (because Neo was linked DIRECTLY to the Matrix). So the machines thought "Hmmm, DELETE!".

Basically what JediHDM said in no. 5 of his comment.

ya ,good
but if neo is a part of balanced equation & smith too
and both of them lost ,the equation become balanced again
so ,i think it's either
-1- one of them not a part of the equation
-2- one of them not die

to keep the equation unbalanced

but since both of them lost, the matrix is balanced again, and the machines don't have to worry about it becoming off-balance again. your thought is that the equation is always supposed to be unbalanced, but if an equation is unbalanced, then the equation must be balanced for it to work. the equation must be balanced at all times; this is the point of the Architect. Once Neo was removed by Smith, the equation became unbalanced, so Smith had to be taken out of the Matrix.

skullkid02, you like Zelda?

*cough* Off-topic *cough*

Sorry, just asking

Did you really have to?

you could have just PMed him

quote:
Originally posted by Korri
We have already discussed this topic!!


Ditto!
Rule 459687 of KMC forums: You may not revive a thread to use as cover for another topic.
i'll keep doing this.

still doing it?

I could have PM him, didn't think of that.

no you didnt did you

Nope

*sigh*