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finti
After todays events we are technically at WAR.
Texas
Ohhhh, Tex got on It Nif's nerves!!!!!!! *Big Yawn*
Texas
Texas' first war action: Protection of Sig, RC not comrad, made fun of his pumpkins one too many times! Texas has learned from Battle of the Edna!
Ratcat
We are? Who with? There was nothing on the news.
Texas
Durrrrrrrrr
Ratcat
Well there's nothing about being at war with anyone anywhere...
Texas
WOW!!!!!I think the 'Authority' in your job title should be stripped immediately
Ushgarak
Ok, we have some SERIOUS cross-purposes here.
Are you sure you have read this one right, Texas?
finti
Nato has accepted the US evidence toward the bin laden connection. This means Nato is technically at war
finti
I could have made it a bit clearer though. Texas just missinterpeded the topic, we have had our little battle earlier on. He is excused for this one, my fault actually
Ratcat
It doesn't mean anything of the sort. Whilst a "War on Terrorism" was declared, there hasn't yet been a formal declaration of war against any other country.
There have been threats but no formal declaration as far as I can see.
If I have missed something then I am happy to be corrected.
finti
The press man for Nato, had a press conferance where he stated that Nato have accepted the evidence Us have put forward.
This means that USA claimes to been attacked from abroad and a attack on a Nato member is an attack on the entire alliance.
Ushgarak
In many ways, this is down to definiton
But I think I do remember reading that the US itself has decided not to invoke article 5.
Ratcat
Fintu, that still doesn't equal war though.
Now that the NATO have accepted the evidence there is a complex political situation where the government that are habouring Bin Laden either need to hand him over or not.
The Taliban have already started talking negotiation because they are scared silly that they will be atacked.
If they don't hand him over then war may be close but we haven't reached that point yet.
Raz
You really think its going to be a two-way war?
Do the Taliban even have anything worthwhile to throw back?
Ushgarak
Afghanistan CERTAINLY does. Just ask the Russians.
Raz
Ah yes...now I remember....something to do with the CIA arming them?
Ushgarak
The CIA let the Afghanistans shoot down the Russian Helicopters, which eventually led to their withdrawl. But long before then it was a hopeless situation. The Afghanistans know their ground well and are very fierce and uncompromising mountain fighters. You can take their cities, bomb their roads and starve their population and still lose 1000 men a week.
The Russian Commanders used to make small raids just to gain the respect of the local resistance leaders. Then they would negotiate a local peace; for many Russians the priority was not victory but just to keep as many of your men alive as possible.
I really hope we don't try an occupation invasion like the Russians did. We'll sink the country but we'll maybe never win the war.
finti
let me try this again. USA claims they were attaced from abroad. They also claim this attack to be an act of war. After the USA handed over the evidence aiming bin Ladens network, Nato accepted the US claim that the attack was an act of war.
When Nato decided to accept US claims, means that when one membering NAto country is attacked ALL the membering countries are attacked. This is the article 5.(one for all, all for one)
WAR is not decleared yet but TECHNICALLY we are at war according to the Nato resolution.
I quote the Norwegian minister of foreign affairs
"NATO has accepted the proof that the terrorist attack in NYC and W.DC is looked at as an foreign attack, and this means it is an attack on all membering countries"
USA has taken it to NATO for support. NATO agreed to the American claim. Artical 5 is then automatically invoked.
queeq
AWWE, our first war since Korea....
finti
what about the Kosovo conflict
finti
Any one been in the military (tour of duty) or in the reserves.
I did my tour of duty in the army`s infantry division.
Now I`m enlisted in the reserves mobilizing forces. And of course our yearly drill comes now. Man its gonna be strict this year.
Im so not looking forward to a week in the mud
queeq
Kosovo was a peace mission.
So was Srebenica, but then our guys didn't have guns. Hardly a war that.
finti
Planes bombed Belgrade as I recalled, that is not a peacemission.
queeq
But it was. And that was UN, not NATO. This is legally different. Here we actually declare war.
Raz
"This war is not like any other war we've seen before"...yada yada ya
yerssot
We're not at war; article 5 just said that we should support the attacked country
so by giving 5franks (=0.12$) we supported the US
Ushgarak
I think Belgrade WAS NATO, actually. I think there was a lot of controversy about that. It was NATO's first military move... ever. Because even Korea was the UN. But it was technically outside NATO's remit. It was a joint operation with the Russians, and then of course the Chinese got narked when their embassy was hit.
Finti, I think the idea is that while the other NATO countries have accepted that article 5 applies, the US is not actually expected to call on their direct military support as the article entitles them to.
finti
Kosovo conflict was a war indeed. Norway got involved by sending fighter planes(f-16) and they participated in the bombing of Belgrade. It was the first time since ww2 Norwegian military forces had taken a part in an attack on a foreign country. And it is still a NATO operation going on on the Balkans.
The article V is called "One for all, all for one" and if the USA wants help with an enemy, we (the other 18 NATO members) are obligated to come to their aid.
The enemy question is kind of diffuse, but there is no doubt Afghanistan is the target. So should it be the terrorist camps the Taliban forces.
USA has decleared war on terrorisme, so if they are at war so are the other NATO members. So in a technically (again) sence we are at war with terrorisme.
Did anybody watch Prime minister Tony Blairs press conferance yesterday?
He is picking a fight with the Taliban.
queeq
"Surrender the terrorists or surrender power."
yerssot
Nobody listen to me! I feel like Calimero!
Article 5 is that the attacked country receivs militairy OR OTHER support against the country that attacked them
finti
Well yerssot thats what s been said all along just in other words.
yerssot
Simple you have to keep it! Mesa not understand very well things, difficult English is!
Ushgarak
Bah! Who needs regular verbs...?
yerssot
What? Do we speak English here?
finti
Have anybody, beside myself , had any military experience?
yerssot
I: watergun-experience for 14 years.
Seriously: I hope that no-body has to go to the army here!
yerssot
Do Norway send troopers?????
I hope not!!!
finti
I am in the reserve mobilizing force, our task is to protect people and strategic places within Norway.
if Norway send troops they will send our special forces. This is an elite group handpicked of the best paratroopers, Naval marine hunters(our Seal force) and "Telemark Bataljoen"(infantery special group). This Elite Task Force train under extreme weather conditions along the Norwegian coast and mountains so they are a pretty bad ass group.
Ushgarak
I was in a Cadet Force, Finti, but that was about it. I was in it for 8 years though.
queeq
Finti a soldier.... cool.
finti
Crawling in the mud, outside in the autumn rain with stupid officers who thinks they are Rambo. Not cool at all.
A wek without sleep. I`ve done my 12 months tour of duty and I`ve been a reserve mob force for many years. My duty and service for my country is way overdue. Time to get some new ones to replace us.
queeq
Better you than me.
Dim
Yeah...me neither. I don't take direction well.
queeq
*points*
That way, Dimmy. that way.
finti
Starts to sing"If you went into the woods today...
yerssot
"...you'll be blown away..."
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