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Yes, interesting that, but what exactly do we think he means by 'tricked'?

Fed him lies, most likely. I would imagine you cannot turn to the Dark Side without WANTING to, conciously or sub-conciously.

lies, manipulation... the usual Palpatine stuff

Go, Palpatine, go!!

but there could be other elements that we don't know of

I know, but Palpatine must have a significant influence in the corruption of Anakin.

but does Anakin know about that? otherwhise he would work for someone who got him to the dark side and he knew about it!

That's the part about him being tricked.

So the tricked part we already know now

Maybe Palpatine tricked him with some candy.

"Come to the darkside, and get some Jolly Ranchers!"

I prefer skittles and sprite. I'd go to the dark side any day of the week for them.

*rattles bag of skittles and holds up bottle of Sprite*

Come here, Sith212guy, come here....

Hopefully Anakin wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for a bag of skittles.

I dunno.... with GL's logic these days... JarJar.... fighting and jumping Yoda.... who knows.

Just a little correction to JO.

As the opening paragraph of that story indicates on JN.C, it actually came from MY SITE ( http://www.SWMovies.Net ) and I sent it on to JediNet.Com, and a few others.



Here's the original post from SWMovies.Net

And that was all based on this story from Empire Online

You tell them RC SWMovies. net rules

*grin*

Careful, this could turn into SPAM...

But extraordinarily high quality spam!

Almost Luncheon Meat?

Better than any mass-produced meat you ever tasted! Packed full of Star Wars goodness.

How can you be tricked itno serving the Dark Side?

Anyone can be fooled into doing something evil, but not everyone becomes Darth Vader and help bring down a Republic. To talk about Vader being tricked into the Dark Side removes responsibility for all his actions from when he becomes Darth Vader until the end of Return of the Jedi.

Surely there has to be a predisposition towards evil or the Dark Side (if you prefer) that is present in Anakin. If Obi-Wan was "tricked" into doing something evil would he turn into a Darth? No - he'd be horrified but then he'd try to make amends for what he had done. The way Anakin reacts after being tricked says volumes about his personality.

Is it just me, or is this all part of Mr Lucas' re-invention of Darth Vader as he wants Anakin to be the the focus of the six films? That small little kid called Anakin from the Phantom Menance is going to torture a Princess to find out where a rebel base is, lure his own son into a trap by torturing his son's friends, plot to take over the Empire by corrupting Luke and develop a habit of choking people to death that he doesn't like.

Now it seems it was all ok for him to do this for twenty years or so because he was tricked into it and Vader "has problems too".

Wait a moment... born in 1972... using a name from the same source as me... exact same opinions as me...

OH MY GOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!

(Runs and hides)

He's right, though.

The Uush strikes back

Not entirely unobservant...

We still don't know what Lucas meant by "tricked". It could be the situation that Anakin is in when he turns to the dark side.

Remember Vader tricked Luke into running to Cloud City to save Han and Leia when his training wasn't ready. Luke knew that he would probably face Vader but had know idea of what Vader would tell him.

It could be the same for Anakin. The Emperor sets things up (death of his mother?) to get him to turn. It doesn't mean Anakin wasn't responsible for turning. It just means that the Emperor set things up to make it easier.

It's a test and Anakin fails because he turns. It's still his fault.

One thing that is sure:
if you were in the same situation you would do the same
-> quote of GL

lucas's reinvention of darth vader???
Shock horror....you'd think it was his character or something! The nerve of him!
You would think he'd at least have the decency to consult every fan before writing his movie!

Don;t be silly. It is perfectly in keeping to criticise someone for changing what was established about a character in a different movie. Brith wasn't claiming executive rights over Vader's personality, just saying that Lucas will rather sell out the Vader concept if it is made to seem that Anakin turned throuygh anything other than his free will.

People are all too quick to make claims like 'fanboy' when someone makes a legitiamte (but only potential) criticism like that, when it is just a fair comment.

That said, I think Brith is over-worried there. That 'tricked' comment is just one breif word said casually in an interview; could mean absolutely ANYTHING right now. I am confident that GL will show a strong moral dimension in Anakin's fall; it won't just be a case of 'Oh bugger, NOW look what I've done! I've fallen to the Dark Side! Oh well, may as well make the best of it...'

Nom when he says 'tricked' I think he just meant the set-up for the whole thing. After all, Palpatine is going to lie to Anakin at some point, we all know it.

being very sarcastical in your comments lately, ey?

Very clumsy sarcasm, at that.

Sarcasm is a good thing.

Ushgarak seems to have covered most of my reply - my concern would be that an attempt to down play the "evilness" of Anakin in the first three is going to clash with the Vader already established in the last three.

You could call this character development but my argument is that it isn't consistant, which is why I used the word "re-invent" in a pejorative sense.

I still feel that the use of the word tricked is significant - the phrase the Emperor lured or seduced Anakin into turning to the Dark Side instead wouldn't cause me any concern. But trick does imply that the whole "servant of the Dark Side" phase of Anakin's career wasn't Anakin's fault. Which to me, given Vader's actions in the last three films, doesn't seem credible.

Before anyone asks, when he says 'pejorative' he means he has made criticism out of a not necessarily critical word.

At what point do people think that Palpatine is actually going to start making his play for Anakin? Do we think he already has the idea in mind by the start of AOTC? Does he know anything about this Chosen One business?

Pejorative is a common enough term down my way...

Palp will make his play for the boy wonder in Ep 3 but will see something in him in Ep 2 that makes him think Anakin will be his new apprentice (third time lucky eh Palp).

As for the Chosen One does anyone other than Obi-Wan really believe it?

Well, Yoda's line 'The Chosen One the boy may be...' indciates that there is a split opinion on that, so I guess at least SOME of the Council does.

Yoda is just hedging his bets...
I think nobody really believes it, but no-one wants to go on record to say it just in case they are wrong and looks like an idiot.

Being wiped out by wrinkly old McDiarmid and his crippled apprentice didn't make them look TOO smart.

I think that they are also very cautious, I mean, he is too old and he knows anger, that gave him the 'strenght' to go to the Dark Side

What Angelus said was quite right.

At whcih point? Did you even read Brith's reply?

While the theory of over-zealous fans thinking that they have a etter idea of how Lucas should develop his own characters is, indeed, a proble, this was not what Brith was doing. He was simply pointing out that if Lucas goies down the road that Brith fears he might, then it will simply not be continuous with the character portayed in the Original Trilogy; a continuity error like any other. That is a legitimate fault to criticise- IF that is what happens, which I don't think it will.

No I wasn't having a go at Brith. I was agreeing with Angelus' point which was basically "it's Lucas character" and we don't know that much about Vader. Even Lucas himself said that Vader was really just "the bad guy" up until the end of ROTJ. He is a very vague character.

All the other stuff is just assumptions made by us. And over the years these have been accepted as to what actually happened to Anakin Skywalker. But what do we know about Vader? Nothing really.

He was a good kid turned bad and that's it. We know he was "seduced by the dark side" and that the Emperor was involved but not much else.

To accuse Lucas of re-inventing the character is to say that what the fans assume happened to Anakin is true. But we don't know. Lucas can't re-invent Anakin/Vader and change the story because there is no story or character to re-invent. It hasn't been told yet.

All we know about Vader in the OT is that he is evil and the bad guy. That won't change. He's still going to be torturing Han Solo, helping to destroy Alderaan, cutting off Lukes hand. He's still the bad guy.

But if what you assumed happened to Anakin is different from what happens in the PT then it's not Lucas fault.

It's not necessarily a point of assuming anything. It's more a worry that Anakin's fall, and the circumstances around it, will be made to seem improbable by the way he acts in the Original Trilogy. GL's character or not, that would still be a mistake.

But it's only a fear right now.

As King Jedi rightly said you can't reinvent a character until you have told his story in the first place...
I am willing to use the term "re-invent" in referrence to Han, in ANH SE, as Greedo shooting first did change how Han could be viewed from what was seen originally.
However here, we don't know what will happen in the next two movies and the manner of Anakin's conversion, and as Lucas always said the first three will tell Vader's fall, and the second his redemption.
A character can't be re-invented until you have heard all of his life story....

surely palpatine knew about anakin at the end of tpm with his "We'll watch your career with interest" (near enough) line. no doubt palpatine trains anakin faster than ob1 and so anakin is seduced by the darkside. Simple.

Not at all. Palpatine has not even started to train Anakin by the time of Episode II. That was just a line to the fans, really, who klnew that much later in the story the two would be together.

For some reason I can't imagine that it would take a long time to train a teenage padawan to go bad...

Do you think Palpatine knew that Anakin was the chosen one?

Yes or else he might have targeted some one else or maybe another padawan to corupt

I mean at the end of TPM.

I think that he knew, yeah

I think the dark side must offer something Anakin has been looking for, maybe that he feels deprived of. It sounds horribly mawkish, but I'm thinking maybe a father figure? I'm sure it will be a conscious decision...I'm sure he will be fed lies that lead him to believe that he can get what he wants that way. Anyhow, it's going to be really interesting to see what happens. The wait gets harder and harder!

Hey everyone

Just reading through this thread but I thought I'd post first. All the Anakin-turning-into-Vadar story...is what interests me the most about the whole of Star Wars. I've always wondered about it. Even since I saw Episodes 4,5 and 6.

Yeah, it's a real mind bender!

Well, not long to go before we all find out.

but from what I've heared is that he will turn in EpIII

That Palpatine's a sneaky bastard all right his obvious mentor should be Machivelli wouldn't put it past him

Palpatine could probably teach him.

Yeah...I also heard that the "turning" of Anakin is in Ep 3. Can't wait to see that. It's gonna be so...deep. Me thinks, anyway.