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What with all this hardcore combat practice lately, which is now entering its final phase and will spawn the 1.3 version of the moves and rules- which will most definitely be the version you will use on Assignment, and should be the most polished, tested and accessible version yet- it's quite easy to forget that I am intending there to be a bit more to this game than just endless moving and shooting! Combat practice is all very well, and cool combats can be fantastic if done right, but if that is ALL there is to a game, it becomes just so much dice rolling.

So my game, like my other games, does, of course, sport a plot. It is, in many ways, perhaps the most in-depth plot yet- a reflection of the more intellectual side of the franchise it is based on!

Like my other games you will be drawn into the plot in-game rather than just have it thrown at you. My Star Wars game began with a diplomatic mission to Damagran which led to the players discovering the activiites of Kuylen and his plan to pillage ancient Sith sites. My LOTR game began with players heading to Fornost for many different reasons and simply travelling together for safety- and then being drawn into Arvedui's plan to thwart the Prophecy of his name and defeat the Witch-King. Likewise, in this game, you will find out what you are being drawn into in the course of gameplay.

As planned, the plot also has the most intriguing characters of any of my games so far as well- after all, I have to live up to what the film has provided us in the way of Morpheus, the Oracle, the Merovingian and Smith. I am not just trying to do the same thing the film does, though, so expect a different approach to be taken. But the idea of a complex artificial world with many complicated people with different views of things will be intact.

The first main plotline should last for several Assignments with several big fights that should last us a while! There are subsequent plotlines that can come after that; all of them, as planned, still take place between the first and second films. Setting it during or after Reloaded/Revolutions is still somewhat complex.

Obviously I cannot give too much away about the details of the plot, but I am confident that if you like the idea of role-playing and you like the Matrix films and ethos, you should like this.

However, this leads me on to an important point, and the point of this thread. This is about the Philosophy/Non-philosophy (or combat) choice.

Always nice to start of Matrix game off with a choice, of course- even better, a choice that determines your Path in the game. Very thematic. I have already talked before on the reason this exists- to create a game where people could chose the Matrix experience they wanted, to have both very valid approaches to a Matrix game contained inside one singular experience, to please the most people. At several important points in the game, the two Paths will split with only occasional contact with each other, both doing their own- equally imporant- things of relevance to the main plot, but with different approaches.

When myself (and, at home, my brother) first introduced this idea, the worry was that everyone would want to ignore the bullshit and get on with the hardcore fighting. As it turns out, a very great number of people indeed want to go for Philosophy! Which is gladdening in many ways, but before the choice is finalised for people (plenty of time yet), I wanted to make sure that people knew what they were getting themselves into, and make sure everyone takes the plot that really does suit them!

Right now, the choices of those in the Training Mission are:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Non-philosophy
Castor- Philosophy

Which gives us 6 Philosophy, 4 Non-Philosophy. That's perfectly workable- I do not need a direct 50/50 split, and we have at least one Veteran in each to lead a group if needed. The Combat path also has at least one gunner and one MA specialist- that is very good news, you want to be well covered there. Still, if the split became 50/50 it would be very aesthetically pleasing!

So, if you will look at this small presentation, I will further expand upon what these choices entail...

From the films

As it so happens, the Philosophy/Non-Philosophy choice can be seen in action in Reloaded.

This MAY surpirse some of you. Morpheus and Trinity were on the Non-Philosophy path. NEO was on Philosophy.

"But.. Neo had all these fights against Smith and stuff!" I hear you cry. Well, yes, but I did point out that if you thought the Philosophy path was about sitting in a big lecture room waffling on about the nature of being for eight hours, think again! Though if you want to talk about the nature of being, feel free...

Let us look at what happened to the main cast in the plot:

It is Neo who had to go see the Oracle and receive all the thoughtful comments from her. It is Neo who had to kiss Persephone and bring out the idea of love into the equation. It is Neo who was confronted with the issues of choice, causality, free will, control, deceit... and it was Neo who had the involved chat with the Architect.

And yes, Neo had big fights as well! But the fight with Seraph had a point other than just being a hard opponent, and even Smith had a fair few lines on the subject of Purpose to give to Neo before the fight! In the end, the most important thing Neo did in the film was exercise choice- or understanding of choice- at the Architect's room. The fights just made it more fun on the way!

Now, let us look at Trinity and Morpheus. Oh, they sat in for the Merovingian's speech but they didn't really get into it- Morpheus was happy to believe what he believed and just accept events as they happened. And after that? Continuous fighting! They fought the Twins, they fought just about everything in the Highway Chase, and Trinity had her big fight scene at the end as well. The most important they did was bust the Keymaker out- a function of pure fighting power!

The only distortion this example creates is because Neo fought the most powerful enemy- Smith. But this is only because Neo is so very powerful! In a game where both teams will be of the same power, the Combat Path will get the more dangerous enemies.

Some important lessons can be drawn from that. Just because Neo 'took' the Philosophy plotline, does not mean he sat on his backside yapping all day- but yapping certainly WAS a function of his plot, that is for sure. Also it is worth noting that Neo is no Philosophy Major- not even brain of the century! He didn't have to know anything about Philosophy at all to do it. But he DID have to make an effort in that regard. More about that below- but basically, you don't have to know much about Philosophy to take this Path, just willing to make an effort. I am not denying that a good education or interest in Philosophy may be helpful, though.

And on the other side of the equation, just because Trinity and Morpheus were on the Combat Path, that didn't make them stupid, did it? The combat Path isn't meant to be where we bundle all the dumb people, far from it! Morpheus is the smartest of the lot of them! Some might say that they had considerably more fun than Neo! Of course, some might say that their plot was more shallow than Neo's. So, it is all down to preference.

Somethings for you to think about there...

Dos and Donts

Re-iterating some of what I said above, here are some things to be wary of.

- DON'T reject the Philosophy Path because you don't know anything about Philosophy. Like I say, that only makes you like Neo. Those who do know something about it might be more settled and happy but not necessarily advantaged.

- DO reject the Philosophy Path if you are worried about the thought you are going to have to put into it. I will not deny that there is good room for brainpower in this Path. If you are going on as a 'Philosophy Virgin', like Neo, what you definitely need is the willpower to engage with things, and talk back, and think about things. Aside from anything else you might be worried that you don't have the TIME for this nonsense! That is as good a reason as any to reject this one.

- DON'T take the Philosophy Path because you think it is safer or easier than the Combat Path! Big mistake that. There is danger a-plenty on either Path. Yes, the Combat Path gets the bigger enemies, but the Philosophy Path gets dangers all of its own. If you cannot think your way out of a problem you could be in serious trouble, if you cannot engage meaningfully with the plot you will not achieve.

What a Philosophy player is certainly at risk at, if not his life (and it CAN be his life!), is in experience. All of you, I am sure, want better Stats or more room to Download stuff. Such privilege is easily earned in Combat, but Philosophy players who sit at the back and do nothing won't develop at all.

- DO reject the Combat path if one of the reasons you wanted to RP the Matrix experience was because you LIKED all that talky stuff. That's what Philosophy is there for! By the same token, if what you really loved was the fights and you fell asleep during the rest of it, that's a good reason to go Combat.

- DON'T reject the Combat Path because you think it is dumb. As noted above, that's unfair! The Philosophy Path isn't about being more clever- it is simply about having a different approach- an approach some people may not like or be interested in, in which case, go combat! Some people could, with justification, argue that there is plenty of intelligence required in strategic and tactical thought in a big Matrix fight, especially with all your powers and stuff.

- DO chose Philosophy if you are looking for something a little different from my other games, even other on-line games in general. It's experimental, for sure, but with committed Matrix fans playing it should be great!

- DON'T reject combat because you think it will get boring. If that happens it will only be because I am not doing my job right. The Combat Path is basically like my Star Wars game, only with fewer pauses between action scenes as the Philosophy Path will pick up the 'slack', as it were. If you like my Star Wars game, you should enjoy the Combat Path.

Finally, don't be afraid to ask me any questions you like, though I am not giving the plot away!

However, one final warning. Once the split happens in the game, it is permanent, for reasons you will see at the time. You cannot mix and match- certainly not for the duration of the first entire storyline (future storylines might not have such a split at all). So... it's worth thinking about before you chose, Don't worry, I will let you know when the split is coming!

Anyone have any comments to make?

hehe...dumb people are fighters...hehe...

J/k people...im still up for Philosophy...

I had hoped that- you being the Philosophy Veteran and all.

hmm mind me changing to Philosophy?

hehe...dont wanna be dumb anymore, Fire? hehe...j/k

lol we'll see who's the dumbass after we end that CTF game

three on one...hmmm...well, i guess we'll see...

THAT's the way a team works :P

Well, that would make it 7/3, Fire, which might be a bit too much imbalance. Can you find someone to swap with?

so anyone willing to swap?

or I can wait till someone from philosophy becomes inactive HEHE

hmm I just did a small activity check, the non-philo have a lot of less active ppl

TPT it will mostly be you and me mate

Burn and Cloud post often enough! The ten players from the Training Misison all post often enough to play.

depends on what you call enough

I'll go to Combat mode, Ush! Especially with Fire switching over.

Ok! So now we are:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy

so know we got BOTH vets in the philosophy? fine by me...*old man voice*old geezers are good for sitting around and yammering on and on...ain't that right, ush? ... j/k

Don't forget that BB is a vet too, and he's on the Non-Philosiphy thing.

I'm fine with where I am.

lol coeus we dont have any gunners left tho

Yeah, so long as each Path has ONE Veteran we are ok.

And it might work better with the dedicated gunners going combat. Phil has people who CAN shoot; that'll do.

And that's right, Jedi... (goes to get walking stick to poke people with)

Man, ive been gone for a few days and everythign takles off...sorry guys, between work and wrestling, ive been swamped. Ill try to post everyday at school tho....

Philosophy All the Way.....d3f.

NP, Vince, thanks for making the effort!

Yup!, I was thinking about switching to philo but i looked at the ppl playing so ill stay right where i am
as we all can see in the CTF mission someone is gonna hafta cover my ass cuz when left alone i get worked!!

Muahahahahaha!

Actually, whilst I am talking about the storyline...

Some elements of it may appear simiular to the set-up in Reloaded and Revolutions. Not the main plot- that would be silly- but elements of it.

In its defence, the plot was written pre-Reloaded, considerably so! So this is more coincidence than anything else- or like-minded thinking perhaps? Regardless, when Reloaded came out only very minor adjustments were needed and much of the plot fitted in very well indeed- my brother was most pleased!

Anyway, I just wanted people to bear it in mind. If you think it was a plot based on what is seen in Reloaded, that's an illusion! It is based on the original film with slight adjustments post-Reloaded.

We now have:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy

7-4 now... Philosophy plotline is somewhat at the limit, I think!

Geez! What's wrong with Combat?

I'd be interested to know motives, actually. Do people think Combat will be less interesting? I would hope it will not be so. Actually, a 6/5 split would work nicely if anyone else feels like changing...

Ok, folks, as you are about to engage with the Storyline, here are some final points!

1. Length.

This storyline for the Matrix is considerably smaller than for my other games. Star Wars was a set of five Episodes each meant to be as 'long', plot wise, as one of the films- and some considerably over-ran (and would have been cut to buggery by GL...). My LOTR game is based on actual Tolkien plots that could technically go on forever, because that man didn't half waffle on in text...

This game, however, is on a far more Matrix scale. The main plotline is probably about the same length as Reloaded/Revolutions. I am not saying it is actively short- because fighting can take a while, as you have seen- but... well.. let me put it like this...

With the slow start due to the faltering nature of the RP area and less pisters taken into account, my Star Wars game has lasted two years (actually been going about 31 months) and it now appraoching the end, at which point I will ask people if they want a new storyline, because more can be done if they want.

I would not be at all surprised if the Matrix storyline reaches that point in six months. Future storylines can always be made if the will is there- for a start, your Oracle predictions won't all be done in this storyline, that would be near impossible, and besides, it would leave your characters without plot hooks! Future storylines might not have a Philosophy path though- that storyline has not been easy to create. Not that there would be NO Philosophy at all, so perhaps it would be more correct to say that both Paths would be done at once in future storylines currently being considered.

But yes, this storyline is not huge, though I hope it is engaging. I would say there are about half a dozen major fight scenes- plus whatever smaller fights you guys get yourselves into!- though admittedly scenes on a very large scale, as there are so many of you! Quite often I will probably split you guys up so, say, 4 of you handle one part of a fight scene at a time, so we have three smaller fights all making up one big fight, to keep things running more smoothly than one apocalyptic uber battle going on every five minutes.

2. Ignorance

It has to be very much borne in mind that, as said before, this game is done from the perspective of the first Matrix film. Nowm, us as human beings have learned a great deal in Reloaded and Revolutions, but this is almost entirely info not available to your characters.

This isn't just obvious stuff about the One, the Architect, the Prophecy and the Cycle of Zion and the Matrix versions. It is smaller things as well. You guys have not heard of the Merovingian. You do not even know there are renegade programmes- as far as you guys are concerned, it is Rebels vs. Machines and nothing else.

The people who get a small get out clause on this are Veterans, who have seen a lot of things over time. But even then, a Vet certainly does not have the scripts to the films to hand. They can say they have heard rumours and talk of programmes who do not seem to serve the Machines, or who ran away from Agents. They might even have seen something that was obviously a Machine but did not fit their agenda (and after all, everyone suspects the Oracle is one such thing). But you would't know what it WAS; a Vet cannot say "Oh yeah! That's a werewolf! Get me some silver bullets!". It doesn't work like that. All in all, best to find out things for yourselves (as, after all, this plot is aiming to be at least somewhat distinct).

3. Style

I cannot enforce style. But it is ALWAYS nice if people play to the style of the films. That should be easy as you are all fans. This is normally about focussing on the small things, which are always a valid part of the role-playing experience. I mean, why bither giving Veterans a Relic? It won't help them beat up things or solve problems. But it is style, and it aids character. These things are just as important as good plot from me, and sensible play from you. So if any of you want to obsess about your shades, your philisophical outlook on life, or that your guns must always be gold-plated, please feel free!

or perhaps that you guns are allways loaded the same way and check them obsessivly??

Very much so...

well I mark all my survived encounters with an agent on the "teeth" of my chainsaw (3 so far), and I normaly take a Katana which has a silver handle and is covered with silver like paint, or a small layer of silver if poss. (NOT METAGAMING-ASK STORM I DISLIKE GOLD,SILVER LOOKS A LOT BETTER)

Ok, here is the latest news:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
San- Philosophy

8/4?
UH-OH! WARNING! WARNING!

Ok, it might be nice if a philo switches to combat...

I think I'd like to switch over to combat, actually...^^;

that'd make it 7 to 5

Oooh... that'll help. Any reason, TM?

Not really, actually...I just thought that my character, now that I've got all the downloads and everything worked out, would be more suitable for combat. Plus I love a good fight ~.^

Okidokey... I hate to jump on a good thing but you know there IS plentiful combat on the Philosophy side, yes? Just the defining climax of it will not be fight based, whereas there won't be a problem in Combat that you cannot fight your way out of.

Yep, I know...it's just that also, in a lot of the RPG's I do my characters tend to be more of the thinking type (kinda like me IRL), and I'd like a little change of pace.

Excellent! Then the split is:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
San- Non-Philosophy

7/5. Not bad.

Yikes! The odds have swerved so quickly!

I think your things about the Philosophy being good too were too convincing.

Darn it, five of those points were pro-combat...

oh well...sounds like you messed up, Ush...i don't hold it against you, though...

Why, I oughta...

Well, it is doable now. And now everyone will always be 100% available, of course. We have a good 'pool' for both Paths. I'll have to give you more enmies to fight though!

Ok, looks like this is done... if anyone wants to change, make sure you contact me very fast because soon they will be fixed.

Ok, here is where we are now:

Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Mors- Non-philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Virus- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Coeus- Philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
Fire- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
San- Non-Philosophy
Barbarossa- Non-philosophy
(Jester)- Philosophy (preferred but not essential)
Hammurabi- Philosophy

9/6. Eeek! Ok, we are currently one place over-subscribed for Philo.

lol go Ush

Ok... let me ask. Why ARE people chosing the Path they are taking? I would like to hear reasons

Instead of fighting continuosly, which from what i read is very confusing, a respite now and again in a bit of philisophical discusion:P in other RPs ive been in its not all fighting, and ive liked that. But i have also played games like this offline(one of which was coincidently based on star wars...) and theyve been fun, so yeah. If virus or anyone else won't move, i will.

Okidokey., Though as I say, the non-philosophy Path isn't nothing BUT fights- it is more like my Star Wars game.

Yeah i wouldn't really want to do that. I like the talking bit the most of RPs

Err... that was actually meant to demonstrate the opposite. There is plenty of talking in SW!

um...because it sounds fun?

I think you really should read your posts to see if you're actually saying the opposite to what you want to say...

lol...well I kinda explained up there why when I had switched from Philosophy to Non-philosophy...change of pace, more or less ^_^

My post reads fine- I said the non-Philosophy path is NOT nothing but fights, yeah?

double negative lol. But i would like to see if anyone else will change before ido

Actually, screw that! I just read the oracle conversation, and although it was amusing, i'll join combat-if you assure me that its not ALL fighting!?

Ah, well, I don't want to to switch on the wrong idea. The actual important parts of it are fighting, the big thing to be achieved there is during a fight. If you don't think you will enjoy the fights then you may not like it.

Just what it is NOT is one continual fight from start to end!

If people had difficulty with the Oracle conversation though... that might be a good reason to go combat!

yeah I would like to stay phil, but if no1 else will....

Well, we shall see what happens.

Well the reason I like to stay has 3 parts

A) I like philosophy, love thinking about the bigger questions in life, it will also help me with my philosophy course I have in school.

B) I didn't design my character to be able to fight off hundreds of mooks, as everyone can see my character is build to fight bigger opponents, not having advanced storm turtle and all- I THINK I would meet more mooks then I can handle on Combat path

C) I like in depth role play, fighting is cool but I have other IRL role playing games to play hack and slash and shoot em up -Matrix to me was about more than KILL EM ALL feeling (atleast M1 was)-

PS: Most of my buddies are in the Philo path

(gets very hot under the collar about number 2...)

on the other hand I don't mind the change that much, you can shift me

That is kind; I shall consider these offers after seeing what others want.

that's me taking one for the team

awww, Fire...

Thx Coeus, well We can't keep all the Tacticians in one team, someone has to lead that bunch of rubble

Then I'll just Kick of the Grasshopper Gigantor here...

And dodge.

*mock salutes* Aye, Aye Captain!!

*slaps HDM his ass*

um...ok

how disrespectful

Errr... was that meant to be in the game thread, GZ?

why philosphy? well....don't know....seems like a resonable thinking/fighting combo for me...

Okidokey... you're stuck on it now anyway, Rade.

Ok this, I believe, will be the final list.

Fire- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Azrael- Philosophy
Hammurabi- Philosophy

Mors- Non-philosophy
Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
San- Non-Philosophy
Barbarossa- Non-philosophy

7/6 to Philosophy. That is fine. Noew entries to the game are no longer allowed.

Virus- participation delayed
Coeus- participation delayed

These two are busy right now and will miss the next Assignment (unless Virus turns up at the last moment!). As pre-existing players they have the right to re-enter the storyline later but what Path they end up on will depend on circumstance at the time they do this.

Other than that I think this question is all settled. Any questions?

Ok, a small change to that, which will teach me to think it is done...

Fire- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Azrael- Philosophy

Mors- Non-philosophy
Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
San- Non-Philosophy
Barbarossa- Non-philosophy

6/6. New entries to the game are no longer allowed.

Hammurabi- Undecided.

Hammurabi is in a quadry about this and will have to decide before the third Assignment.

Virus- participation delayed
Coeus- participation delayed

I'm going with the non-philosophy choice.

Ok then, so it is:

Fire- Philosophy
Celsius- Philosophy
Rade- Philosophy
Hephaestus- Philosophy
Castor- Philosophy
Azrael- Philosophy

Mors- Non-philosophy
Burn- Non-philosophy
Ares- Non-philosophy
Cloud- Non-philosophy
San- Non-Philosophy
Barbarossa- Non-philosophy
Hammurabi- Non-philosophy

6/7 to Combat now! Heh, reversal...

Virus- participation delayed
Coeus- participation delayed

These two are busy right now and will miss the next Assignment (unless Virus turns up at the last moment!). As pre-existing players they have the right to re-enter the storyline later but what Path they end up on will depend on circumstance at the time they do this.

Other than that I think this question is all settled, and further participiation is closed. Any questions?