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music rarely reflects the lyrics anymore! i heard a song by yellow card the other day that had really good lyrics yet the music sucked. im tired of music sucking,and im tired of lyrics sucking...dont even get me started on (c)RAP!

lol

well I still think heavy metal has the best combo

and old days of metallica ruled, a bit less now but still better than most crap

i agree. i think after 1995 hit, musical talent whet way down...

MUSIC IS MISSING FROM TODAYS MUSIC

WILL THOSE F*CKIN RAPERS SHUT UP ABOUT WOMEN AND START SHOOTIN PPL!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????

lol. Yeah rapper's really need some new ideas. Heard nuff bout their ladies, their flash cars, the drugs they take... yeah yeah.

i think alot of bands out there should learn how to play their instruments

What's missing in music? Talent, devotion, focus. All songs today sound the same. Whether its pop, rock (if there is such a thing nowadays), metal, emo (the music of the devil), rap, everything. Pop is all the same lyrics, and hideous melodies that also seem to resemble each other. emo is ALL the same, the guitar riffs goes up down, up down, but the second time a couple frets lower, they all write about girls they lost in the fourht grade, and they sing with the back of their throat. Rap, they all write about women money and fame. Plus all they do is write. Oh, and press a button on a drum box. The WORST thing about music today though, is the bands focus on the wrong things. All these ****ing posers in "punk" bands care about is looking like a bad ass. They dye their hair black, spike it, get some tatoos and piercings,and they suddenly think they are cool. They need to get their ****ing heads out of their asses and write some god damn good music!!!!!

besides the talent to play an instrument?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the fact that looks sell more music than the sahre song it self bugs me, I am so sick of artist who sell music through their looks rather than their musical talent

Absolutely, artists these days (female) seem to focus on doing their hair in the most outrageous ways and wearing as little clothes as possible. This aint playboy for christs sake, we want music !

No by all means start on crap.

What's missing from music today? Spontaneity, decent individual sound (for the most part)



Actually PlenTpack I agree 88% with you...

HAHAH YOU ALL SUCK.
Seriously, bog off, the lot of you. Music today is as good as it was 2 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago. There's crap and there's quality. Just because you losers only look at the billboard chart to find what to listen to, doesn't mean there aren't tons of great artists not that famous.

the mass media is the reason for the bilboard sh-- list,.sorry hit list music.
But with all the media we have available today it sure is strang that a lot of band aint able to expose their own music.

mah that last post was quite offencive

but I never said music sucks

I still like a lot of music that comes out

sure it might be popular, sure it might have been better before 1995, but some of the new stuff is great too, it might be shalow, it might be the same thing yet again... but if I feel inspired and touched by it so be it. I am not gonna favor something because everyone says so
I am not gonna hate somethin cause everyone else does.

so yea I like Bryan Adams, Bon Jovi, Live and Metallica, sure they were better before, tho Bryan Adams his last cd rocks, Live isn't that old as a band and Bon Jovi is actualy better now than in his old days.

yea they are commercial and stuff but I don't care
great music all the way

THEY ALL ROCK

Did that wankface just tell us to "bog off"?

Mah et Finti got a point. If you're not super into some music, the bulk of your exposure to it is what the media gives you, and the media is the record company is the distributer is the crooked bassturd taking our money and giving us easily palatable simple uncreative art. Of course I still do believe that music today lacks the spontenaity music in the past has had.

//what music today is missing:
well.... good sound... meaning...more then just a one hit wonder...synth guitar... not ALL about their image...trying their own stuff... it all just sucks!

<.><.>

heavy metal is still alive and thriving but it just doesnt get on mainstream scene

coz of all that hip hop / pop crap that is brainwashing everyone

ive studied how music is written and has been written for the past 500 years...im taking four musical classes including composition, music theory AP, jazz history, and classical history. when you really look at the big picture, new age music is nothing compared to the music that was written 300 years ago, if mozart was somehow teleported from the past to now and then listened to our music, hed plobly have an ulcer and a hernia at the same time......... then kill himself.

music is so deep and meaningful, and it takes that realization to become a real musician, not just learning simple tabs and power chords and pumping out something that "sounds cool" of course its good to learn these things, but theres a mind set that comes with it, and most people dont realize that.

My man! End of discussion

And you don't realize having studied music helps you nought in judging the music of today. Musical understanding is not something studied in school and then "learned".

actually, in learning about the technicalities of music, it makes it very hard to listen to new age music. its really hard not to judge music today, in my opinion, and i do RESPECT music today because good or bad its STILL music and i love music; its just very hard for me to listen to it. if one studies all different types of music, they will naturally gain new expectations and a more analytical way of listening to it. stuff like rap doesnt aquire things like harmony, melody, chord inversions and quadratics, no structer to the bar graphs at all, the only thing it has musically is a beat and every once in a while a classical guitar will jump in and play some god-awefull latino lick. 'musical understanding' is definately not something that they can teach in school, a person who decided to give an in depth study at music, will one day acquire a musical epiphoney, and then realize that people need to get it on.

Who else thinks that mindbugaling should control MTV? We'd actually learn from it then!! Not rot our brains watching the same stupid crap where the only difference is the people they put on.

Get out of here. The mere fact that people think what you're saying makes sense is unfathomable.
Like music is some kind of science, or religous goal which can after long time be reached, a "nirvana". Hah!
I spend more time with music than anything else except school. I listen too all genres, I like artists in all genres, I like bands from the 70's, I like bands from today. The quality is the same; to even attempt to say that the millions of artists in the world are "weaker" at making music today is laughable and not worthy of taking seriously. MAINSTREAM music of today has lost much of its originality, but not so with all the jewels you can find in the "underground" (don't like to use that word just because they're not chart-riders, but whatever).
And your absolutely DISTASTEFUL generalization of "rap" is horrid at best.
"the only thing it has musically is a beat and every once in a while a classical guitar will jump in and play some god-awefull latino lick."
Newsflash; Ja Rule doesn't represent every rapper in the world. Neither do the others frequenting MTV. Listen to some King Geedorah, some Talib Kweli, some Qbert, and realize that you're wrong. Or maybe you won't, because you seem narrow-minded and stubborn.

No, plenTpak52, I don't think mindbugaling should control MTV; or rather I don't care: I'm not watching MTV now and I certainly wouldn't if he had the final say on the content.

even i agree with mah, and i hate* rap! i may not like it as a musical genre, but i think rappers are some of the most talented lyricists in the world today, and a lot of rappers dont just have generic beats. take OutKast. they are backed by acoustic and bass guitars, keyboards and a live drummer.

*(well, not hate, dislike)

looking at the way you speak of music, its obvious that you havent had any education in the fields of musical theory, composition, or history, and thats why you and i differ. i would bet my life that if you decided to study music LIKE a science, you would understand the points that ive been trying to make. music is a science. the music that i speak of takes TONS of mathematical equations and an understanding of musical relationships between harmonization and theory. most people think that because they listen to music and they know which bands play what songs, that they know alot about music, which they do; but there's a step above that, that you obviously are not willing to take. mah, i used to think just like you do, untill something told me that there is more to music than meets the eye.



the fact that you said this means that youve never, or have only come close to experiencing the deep side of music, and do you know why this is? its because youre surrounded by this absurd listening style, youve decided to live your musical life 'inside the box' when, if only you decided to leave that 'box,' you would realize what im trying to say. i may be stubborn but the fact that you are not willing to even try to 'adjust your understanding' on certain subjects, makes you just as stubborn.



i agree with you on this point, mostly because i am APART of the underground. underground musicians survive on their music, and the attitude towards that is that its the only thing they need, and thats what drives them. the underground musicians are pure music, most of them anyways. the people of the underground dont need fame and money to be happy, theyre happy just as long as theyre still playing music.

mah- i dont expect you to change your perspective on music in anyway, you like what you like and thats perfectly fine with me. the fact is, is that we all love music and thats that. yet its hard to talk to people from a musician point of view when its hard for them to understand what im saying. i may have crossed the line a little bit in my last few posts but you cant blame me for letting a little bit of steam off. i think its awesome that you have seen stuff in the underground that you think is better than mainstream.

i guess what i was trying to say in the first place is that its sad that the mainstream music is so popular and underground isnt. and thats why i think music has gone downhill in the last era. that was the reason for this thread.

I'm sure you've got your view on things, but don't present them as a sure fact. "music is a science. the music that i speak of takes TONS of mathematical equations and an understanding of musical relationships between harmonization and theory.". If mathematical equations are needed for your listening enjoyment then I pity you.

How do I "live in a box" ? Everyday I'm on the search for new music, new talents, new subgenres I haven't listened to before. And you're wrong, I HAVE had really emotional moments with music; music that has touched me and moved me greatly. What I meant with my "nirvana" comment was that I do not agree that you have to study music as a subject, "mathematical equations" included, to then finally reach great moments of listening pleasure.


Btw, I'm sorry for being too "agressive" as well, it's just I can get quite hot-headed when arguing about my main interest.

im not saying that you have to be atoned to listeneing to music with a ton of mathematical percision to have a great listening experience, but when i first realized how far the 'nirvana' thing could take me, i wanted to spread that feeling to other people. i always did have these amazing emotional experiences with music before i went more in depth into studying it, but now that ive studied it, these 'emotional experiences' have gotten ten times more intense. i used to listen to nirvana, pink floyd, elton, the beatles yellow card and stuff like that, which i still do, but now ive expanded my interests alot more from classical opera, ragtime and dixieland blues.

i apologize about the whole 'music is a science' thing but the truth is, there is tons of music out there that takes mathematical equations to get what the composer wants (which i hope youve listened to at some point in your life), lots of classical music was written like that, and if you dont think that mathematical equations in music doesnt exist at all today, it does. for instance film scoring. you have to go through many mathematical equations just to be able to but a que in a piece of music to fit it into the movie that theyre composing, like if there was an explosion in the film and you wanted to score a big orchestral piece to the moment that that explosion happens, you will have to plan it mathematicaly to get it right.


the 'box' that i was describing is your typical way of listening to music

Erm, don't kill me for my input here.

There's musical comprehension, more of a logical thing, such as theory and timing, etc; and then there's musical apprehension, a more creative understanding of it, where you look into the soul of the song and its message rather than its 'MTV quota', you understand me? Now, there are people who study music for a living and people who connect with music for a living, neither is better than the other and I'm sure at some point we have to do both. I have to say I'm more of an apprehender because I'm pretty lousy at playing any instrument other than my voice, but I love trying to fathom out some deep message about such-and-such-a-theme in such-and-such a song.

For the record, I listen mainly to RHCP, Rob Dougan and Coldplay so I'm going to be boring

AI.

Opera and classical music, while indeed with "mathematical equatoins" in it, is pretty much amongs the most simple music out there. The base of it is very simple melodies.

yes but at the time it was revolutionary, you have to consider that its how all of the music comes together to make a symphony and its not what first jumps out at you in the symphony. if you listen closely to the undertoned musical parts and how well it fits together with the simple melodey its amazing how deeply you can listen to it, ill show you if i can find an example....


in rap music you have a beat: take a simple four bar measure in 4:4 time. you have your bass line that represents the big rumbling sound.
then you add in maybe a triangle sound skipping every other beat of the bassline.


heres kinda what it looks like:



bass line: * * * * - * * * *- * * * *- * * * *
triangle: ^ ^ ^ ^
sound


notice how the trangle follows the simple beat of the bassline. you can add other sounds in to give more depth, but they usually never take the time to do so.

the same thing applies to classical, accept that when you take things like harmony and melody into consideration, it becomes alot more technical. plus you have to write out about fifty parts for the orchestra to play, which is also VERY technical.

i believe that what ikobe stated is very true, and i think thats kind of what ive been trying to point out.

What ikobe stated is the opposite of what you've stated.

And you've obviously not listened to rap like King Geedorah or other talented musicians.

Well, I'm jumping into this conversation kinda late. As far as the mathematical aspect of music, well, anyone who is a musician is aware of it. You have to play in rhythm. I know it can get deeper than that, but at it's most basic level, music is obviously mathematical. However, sometimes it's nice to listen to music, and not have to think about math. I mean, I hated math in school, and I love music. I teach music, and have to think about rhythm, etc. the whole time. It's nice to just put some music on in the background and enjoy it without having to anylize it. So, I think you are both correct. It just depends on if you are listening emotionally, mentally or both.

I don't agree that you have to think math even when you're enjoying music; fully focusing on it and letting it embrace you. Think about the music, for chrissakes, not if they're mathematically precise.

actually I dont sit down and analyze music every time i listen to it, that would be just plain creepy. no, what im saying is that rap compared to classical in mathematics terms is 100 to 1, and it takes a very intellectual person to write orchestrall music. about a year ago, i watched a series on the ovation channel about the 'science of music'
they hooked brain wave recorders up to hundreds of peoples brains, then they played a huge variety of music to see how certain music effects the brain. when they played things like mozart, 98% of the subjects brain waves fluctuated twice as high as normal. when they played things like rap music, the exact number of a change in brain wave fluctuation was 5.5%. i remeber this because i laughed so hard when i heard it. i like it when my brain waves fluctuate

That's total bullshit. No offense, but it is. How the 'brain waves flunctuate' means bog-all. I'm sure they didn't mention that half of those individuals there listens to Ja Rule and Britney Spears. Just because their brain waves twisted turing mozart doesn't mean that's the best music. You might have to be the most scientifically smart to make classical music, but that means nought. Many of the greates albums of all time have been made by artists who's not even that great instrument players.

im am not trying to point out what the best music is mah! what im saying is that you can be a complete dumbass and make millions on some b-s music! you know mah, you need to lighten up. id be alot more willing to listen to what you have to say if you werent negative all the time. you think that what ive said is bs? prove it. the mere fact that you think that real life facts are false, proves that you do not have an educated argument, and is not worthy of recognition. really, you need to be alot more open about things and maybe at least try to listen to the more educated people, or else youll never get anywherein life. im willing to take YOUR opinion into consideration hoping that we might come to a harmonization about things. but when you dismember everything i or the other people have to say, you make yourself not even worthy enough to even talk to.


please explain to me what 'bog-all' means....

bog-all = nothing

A real-life fact can be totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, but ok I'll refrain from using the term "bullshit" from now on, and be a little more light-hearted. BUT, you constantly post things that I find are totally irrelevant, and I have to express my views on said things.

"and maybe at least try to listen to the more educated people"
And this is the reason why I don't "lighten up", because when you say things like that it comes off as incredibly arrogant.

well when i said that i meant it as in the more educated people in general, not just me. i didnt mean any harm by it, i was just trying to add on to m point about how sometimes you need to take other peoples information into consideration. but it really helps knowing that youve noticed that youve been kinda negative abnd that youre willing to stop. youve come across as a much better person than id hoped.

If you want to hear true talent, turn to Josh Groban. He has the vocal skill as well as the writing skill. Not to mention a way of putting me in a trance when I hear him He can portray an old song better than most.

You should also hear the Christian singer David Phelps. That man has the voice of the century, and can boom the walls out of a church! I saw him perform live, and it was one of the most powerful concerts I've ever been to. I think he writes most of his songs as well.

Point being: what I think is missing from today's music is true talent, taking on a project and doing it to the fullest. I am a singer, and I don't want to be seen as some teenybopper, being the only thing I'm really good at is dancing, because for one, I'M NOT! LOL, I sing and sometimes write, as well as play a couple instruments by ear. I want to bring my true personal talent to the plate when I get out there. I'm not gonna be a wannabe.

I'm also an overweight woman. Another thing that's missing is performers that are looked at for their ABILITIES. Ruben Studdard helped the bigger people feel better about themselves by being in the limelight so much himself. It made me not feel ashamed to be big and have people stare at me while I perform. I agree with some of you on the fact that music has gone past the talent in some areas.

If someone hears a singer on the radio, they don't know what they look like do they? Unless they saw a picture of them before hearing it on the radio. Looks aren't everything.

No problem, but I think this argument has kind of lost it's point now; so methinks it should be declared dead. (For me, at least).

well come back if you want to post some more opinions.

Hmmm I wonder how much brain waves fluctuate when jazz plays.

What my questions are Mindbuggle is

What does brainwave fluctuation mean? Does it mean you're thinking consciously more, or your brain is just more active? I'm asking this because "brain fluctuation" could mean nothing, which would mean this was just some silly statistic that someone came up with to make rap seem inferior to classical. But anywayz...

The human brain buzzes with a complex mix of electrical activity, or brain waves. These fast moving and overlapping waves are unique in every person. And they change in times of wakefulness, sleep, calm and stress.

Synchronized brain waves have long been associated with meditative and hypnogogic states, and audio with embedded binaural beats has the ability to induce and improve such states of consciousness. The reason for this is physiological. Each ear is "hardwired" (so to speak) to both hemispheres of the brain. Each hemisphere has its own olivary nucleus (sound-processing center) which receives signals from each ear. In keeping with this physiological structure, when a binaural beat is perceived there are actually two standing waves of equal amplitude and frequency present, one in each hemisphere. So, there are two separate standing waves entraining portions of each hemisphere to the same frequency. The binaural beats appear to contribute to the hemispheric synchronization evidenced in meditative and hypnogogic states of consciousness. Brain function is also enhanced through the increase of cross-collosal communication between the left and right hemispheres of the brain. When certain music such as mozart is played, the brain waves
create more connections.

In highly publicized work, researchers at the University of California at Irvine (UCI) demonstrated that listening to Mozart's Sonata for Two Pianos (K.448) enhanced visual spatial learning skills. Frances H. Rauscher, PhD and her colleagues conducted a study with 36 undergraduates from the department of psychology who scored 8 to 9 points higher on the spatial IQ test (part of the Stanford-Binet Intelligence scale) after listening to 10 minutes of Mozart. Gordon Shaw, one of the researchers, suggested Mozart's music may be able to warm up the brain, "We suspect that complex music facilitates certain complex neuronal patterns involved in high brain activities like math and chess. By contrast, simple and repetitive music could have the opposite effect." In a follow up study the researchers tested spatial skill by projecting 16 abstract figures similar to folded pieces of paper on an overhead screen for one minute each. The test looked at ability of participants to tell how the items would look unfolded. Over a 5-day period, one group listened to Mozart's Sonata for Two Pianos, another to silence, and a third to mixed sounds, including music by Philip Glass, an audiotaped story, and a dance piece. The researchers reported that all three groups improved their scores from day one to day two, but the group that listened to Mozart improved their pattern recognition scores 62% compared to 14% for the silence group and 11% for the mixed group. On subsequent days the Mozart group achieved yet higher scores but the other groups did not show continued improvement. The researchers proposed that Mozart's music strengthened the creative right-brain processing center associated with spatial reasoning. "Listening to music," they concluded, "acts as an exercise for facilitating symmetry operations associated with higher brain function. Don Campbell gives a nice summary of this work in The Mozart Effect, along with many other examples of music enhancing learning and healing the body. Campbell writes that in his experience Mozart's violin concertos, especially numbers 3 and 4 produce even stronger positive effects on learning.

I asked for a fish, and got a whale...

Thanx mindbugglar