Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Did you see the latest reports about mail with white powder that may possibly contain anthrax being mail to NBC (a woman working for Tom Brokaw came down it it) Sony Pictures and Microsoft?? Do you think it's terrorists or some other crazies?

I thought the white poweder had turned out to be harmless.

Contact anthrax is a rubbish weapon for a terrorist to use. I say some other crazy.

I don't know because they said that the powder that the woman working for Brokaw had has come pack negative but she was positive for anthrax and had to go on medication.

Regardless, I can see why it makes the mail handlers nervous.

the one microsoft got; second test was negatif...

This is really starting to piss me off now! We as Americans have too much to deal with as it is. The World Trade Center, The Pentagon, the declining economy, the war in Afghanistan, protecting ourselves for more terror, we have Bin Laden sending secret messages to his terrorists here in the US via his broadcasted speeches, and now we have crazies/terrorists mailing Anthrax to people! God, when will we get a break!

It may be a rubbish weapon in itself but as a terror tool I would say it has been infinately effective in just a few short days.

Yeah, Tex, this definatly sucks a fat one.

Every country has problems to deal with.

Yeah, but nothing like this has happened in my lifetime. One day your just walking with your nose in the air, scratching your ass without a care in the world, and the next day your praying to god that your building doesn't get it by an airplane and that you dont open a letter with Anthrax! It's so unfair! I guess that I am in the anger stage! I am just furious that anyone would dare do this to America! How dare they!

Hmm. I know your angry, but that does sound a little like saying that America is the only place that doesn't deserve this sort of thing.

*gets some popcorn and some coke*
this can be a long discussion

I don't think so. I'm not after an argument here; I just wanted to remind people that this is a global issue.

I don't think that Texas will give away that easily...

your funny yerssot

Yeah, I dont mean to argue either, but America does not deserve this. If the terrorists dont like that fact that we are helping out Israel, then fight our military, bomb our bases their, dont crash into 220 floors of office space in the middle of Downtown NY and kill thousands of innocent people! Damn!!!! I want to go back to Tahiti!!!!

Whithout making this into an arguement; do you know history?

history? No, explain.

nothing happens suddenly... everything has something to do with something from the past...

yeah I know that, but that doesn't change the fact that these were cowards! I'm just mad and scarred and pissed! I wish this could all just go away! And now they have us on highest alert saying that they have credible reason to believe that an attack on America is imminent again! If there is another major attack, I am going to drop all my classes and I am leaving the country, I was emotional unstable before this, with my dad and all, and now this is just getting too much for me!

You can't change the past.
My point is that they didn't thought: let's be terrorists... there is a historical thing in it

Yeah, their mad because of our involvement with Israel. I realize that they just didn't wake up and say, 'hey, let's destroy the WTC today'. It's just surreal. Things like this aren't suppose to happen in America, and now I'm shell shocked.

there is more then Israel...

update:
even in Belgium there are those envelops; makes you wonder:
they found Belgium? wow!

"It's called a Belgium dip" -Dr. Evil

They are an odd sort of coward. Cowardly that they are not prepared to fight you head-on to be sure, but you can hardly be afraid to call them afraid to die, and their actions show them as far more brave than I ever could be. If they were truly cowardly, this would never have happened. There would have been no strikes.

But they would be morons to fight your military. They see you as an enemy and fight you the only way they can; this is now the chance the world has to show that that sort of tactic will not be tolerated.

I do feel very sorry for you, Tex, and I am sure that it must be the most terrible shock. But it is not just America that does not deserve this; NOWHERE does and America is not the only place this sort of thing thing happens; of course, the WTC attack was the greatest in scale but other places more than make up in terms of history.

Like, I say, it's global. It's the WORLD that does not deserve this.

Ush, I respect what you think. But to use the word "Brave" makes me sick.

These terrorists are NOT human beings. They have been brainwashed since they were born that America is evil. They don't even know WHY they are supposed to hate us. I saw a program where most Afghanistanies and Pakastanies couldn't even point out America on a world map!

How can you hate a country (or I guess society is a better word, because it was an attack on the entire free world) that you know nothing about? These people are not allowed the access of knowledge about forein countries that we have. They are just told to hate us, and not worry about why.

Usama bin Ladin is not a human being. He is a monster. The only reason he gives for hating America so much, is that during the Golf War, we were in Saudi-Arabia (which is supposed to be sacraed land). The dumbass doesn't reolize that we were over there to protect AFGHANISTAN!!!!

But, it wasn't Afghanistan that attacked America, it was a group of radicals.

And Ush, they ARE cowards. If this prick bin Ladin was so brave, why wasn't he driving one of the planes? How could his followers see him as a brave man? He hides, as his camps and people are destroyed because he doesn't want to turn himself in. They ARE afraid to die. Otherwise, they wouldn't have hit us, then hidden.

Brave is when you do something, then take responsibility. bin Ladin punched us in the back of the head, then ran away before we could turn around.

I have sympathy for these people, I really do. Not for the leaders which preach hatred, but for the men who are held at gunpoint, telling them to join the Taliban or Al-Quida. And I certainly have sympathy for the innocent people of Afghanistan, who are fleeing for their lives. Did you know that we are dropping supplies to these people, and the Taliban are confiscating it?

Ush, you say that they are not afraid to die. They are also told that when they die, they will have 70 virgins waiting in heaven for them. Now, I don't know what God they have, but in this country, the god that wants death and destruction of innocent people is named Lucifer.

Ush, they are not brave, and please don't ever say that again. One thing you pointed out is right; no one deserves this. And that is why President Bush has clearly stated that it is important to completely wipe out terrorism.

To me, it makes no difference if the terrorism is the bombing of the World Trade Center, or some small coffee shop in Pakistan, killing only 6 people. Death from hatred needs to go away. . . forever! America and it's allies will succeed.

No. It doesn't matter what you believe in. It takes bravery to kill yourself for any cause. Bin Laden may be a coward, many of his followers may be as well, but those people weren't. Twisted, evil, brainwashed, any number of things. But thery were not cowards by any definition. And I am afraud that you just cannot ignore that.

I am sorry if it makes you sick. But putting aside the truth will not solve anything. He has people working for him unafraid to die in the name of their cause and that IS bravery, no matter how twisted.

BTW, at no point in the Gulf War did you go to protect Afghanistan.

I guess were having a hard time agreeing that they were 'brave' because it's mostly a postive characteristic, and god knows nothing positive ever came out of those bastards!

update:

the letter to Microsoft DID contain anthrax

Yes, Tex, you are absolutely right, and I really do not mean to cast them in a positive light; I want to make that absolutely clear.

Much as I hate to bring parralells into it, we over here had to learn the hard way abiout this with the IRA> Because a lot of them were bombers, which certainly looks like a cowardly way toi fight anybody, the quick assumption was made that all IRA members were cowards.

But then came the hunger strikes, one of our heaviest political defeats and a tragedy in every way. Bobby Sands left himself die in prison in the pursuit of his cause, and watching the whole episode no-one could be left in any doubt of his bravery.

At the time, the conflict was on the brink of ending. But our hard-line attitude and contempt, coupled with the ENORMOUS wave of sympathy Bobby's death caused (he was even elected an MP) suddenly turned everything very much against us again and years more conflict followed.

It's always a hard thing to recognise any sort of positive characterstic in your enemy, but in the end, they are normally there. And when it comes to thiose suicide hijackers, perhaps the ONLY positive thing to be said for them is thgat they were very brave men. But on the whole, history will, rightly, treat them as the mose vile sort of people imaginable.

Meanwhile, the people sending those anthrax spores are DEFINITELY cowards.

when we're talking about religeous reasons for killing people, i read something interesting in norways #2 biggest newspaper. 2 pages with a big picture of bin Laden on the first, and a big picture of bush on the other. it was about both saying "god supports us" when they're talking 'bout terrorist attacks/bombing of afghanistan. a professor or something pointed out that there were many similarities, bin Laden was worst of course, but that he also got a bit scared when listening to bush.

i dont think the type of military actions against afghanistan that are going on now is the right way to go, if anything it creates more possible terrorists and hatred against USA.

Dammit, people. This is not cool.

Ush, they are gutless cowards. You think they sucide bombers were given a choice? Dying for a cause is one thing, but the MURDER of thousands is not bravery.

And mah, what the hell are we supposed to do? We have given the terrorists infinate f*cking patients. They have bombed us several times in the past. We even gave them an entire MONTH to hand over bin Landin, and they didn't do it. Last Thursday, Bush said AGAIN, that if they hand over bin Ladin, the bombings would stop. Did they hand him over? No.

America is going about this in the right way. We warned them, gave them opportunity to prepare and let the innocents flee. We are dropping supplies to the innocents.

The wrong thing to do, would be to drop a bomb on the entire country. We almost should have done that for what they did.

Brave Ush? Give me a break! They hit us with no warning.

I am sorry you feel that way, Tomacco. But they WERE brave. They gave their life for what they believed in. That IS bravery. Like I say, twisted and evil, but still brave. There can be no other way to put it.

And if you need more proof of the bravery of some of these people, you will get it when the fighting starts.

Yes, the attack was cowardly, but the people who did it were NOT cowards. Cowards do NOT give their lives for anything.

They would have been brave if they chose not to go hrough with it

That might also be true. But in no way can it be said that thus was an easy choice for them to make. It must have been DAMN hard.

Ush, there's a guy named Bill Maur on ABC. He has a political show on late night tv. He almost (and probably will get) fired, because he called the terrorists brave.

It's not bravery, because they are told they have to do it. And they are told once they die, they've got the 70 virgins.

That makes me sick, Ush. I can see you're not going to change your mind. But let me give you some advice; don't ever say the terrorists were brave in front of an American, because he/she will probably punch you.

Brave. That makes me want to cry, when I hear people talk like that.

You have forgotten that this was an attack againat all Western countires, as your own President says so. You have forgotten that many of us have our own terrosrst problems as well. You see too thin you are in some sort of unique positoin but you are not.

It does not matter how much you go on about your 70 virgins, the fact is that it is NOT an easy thing to bring about your own death in the name of a cause and it took guts for these people to do this.

If Bin laden could simply order his followers to do this sort of thing whenver he wanted, then the suicde attacks would never stop. As it is, the sort of person who wants to to this is VERY rare. And they volunteer. They were NOT forced. It would have been impossible without theor co-operation.

And just because YOU would want to punch me, To- which says FAR more about you than me- don't put the same onus on all your countrymen. I have plenty of American friends who agree with me.

What more do you want from me? These people were evil, sick, and twisted. I wish they had never been born and I hope their kind are made to pay. But there is absolutely NOnway ytou can call people willing to die for their cause cowards. NO WAY AT ALL! Others have had to learn that the hard way; I hope your country doesn't have to as well.

finti, thank you.

Ush, I don't see anything brave about murder. And 5 billion people agree with me.

If they are brave, why don't they step up and take responsibilty? Because they are afraid that we are going to kill them.

And yes, if you were in front of me right now, I would slap you.

Someone else back me up, here.

You missing the point here, Tomacco? The reason they aren't saying anything now is because they are dead!

And like I say, that you would hit me says plenty about you.

is bin Laden dead? no
is his terrorist group dead? no
has civilian died? yes

does this make people in afghanistans's neighbour-countries more hateful, more supporting to bin Laden, more willing to do harm to America and the free world? yes

give the mission to the UnitedNations. kofi annan got the nobel peace price. he and his organisation has stated that they don't support the bombing and that they want to get the mission.

I would only be slapping you, to try to knock some sense into you!

Bravery is risking your life to save someone elses.

Bravery is not driving a plane full of passangers into a building of civilians.

It's a very difficult area that, Mah. There is a lot of support for the campaign right now so long as it stays focussed. The Bush administration, right now, is doing just that. And this may be the only way to bring the people to justice right now.

If the conflict widens out too far, you may have a point.

Tomacco, bravery IS also throwing away your own life for a cause! Beavery can be evil as well as good, you know. They were brave in an evil and horrible way, but still brave!


Look, I don;t condone their actions. Even if they had been striking in a purely military way, life is not some cheap thing you should just throw away like that, even for a cause. And that they also took several thousand innocent civilians with them is utterly, utterly deplorable. But one way or another, it took guts for them to do it.

ToMacco: i don't know, but for me it seems like you are misunderstanding ush, he doesn't support the terrorists in any ways, he's just stating a fact. the problem may be that you look at the word "brave" differently. aint that right?

Yes, I think that may be the problem, Mah, just as Texas said earlier.

Ush, I think you're wrong. It didn't take GUTS to do it. They have no soul, no conscience to do what they did.

mah, we've kept the peace until now. They hit us. We did nothing. They hit us again. We did nothing. They hit us many times, now we're doing something.

And I don't see any neighboring country get behind the terrorists.

There is honor in bravery. And I don't see anything honorable about what they did.

They don't care that they die, because they have no value for human life.

They're brainwashed that God hates the free world. So they think when they die, they go to a better place.

thats not right. today 200 people were killed in nigeria, in demonstrations against USA. also in pakistan and other countries there have been big demonstrations.

Well now, no country would be silly enough to get behind the terrorists. Even Afghanistan hasn't literally done that.

But you see plenty of countries saying that the Americans are doing wrong here. It could turn into a wider problem. Saudi Arabia not allowing its bases to be used being one.

Conscience or no, throwing away your life is not a causal decision! No mattr what your beliefs.

Honour in bravery? Not necessarily. There certainly can be, but there doesn't have to be.


But maybe that all comes down to opinion. Look, To, I am sorry if I upset you and I am certainly sorry if you think I am somehow insulting the American people. It was certainly never my inent. I think we might have been talkign a little at cross-purposes here, but I don't think it's worth arguing about, certainly as I am pretty sure we agree on 95% of the stuff about this whole unpleasant situation.

Right now, people arround the world are working more together than they are arguing. Snd I'm sure it won;t last, but on the whole I would rather go with the flow for now.

mah- what are we supposed to do? Sit around and wait for them to attack us again?

We're we supposed to throw our heads back and laugh and say "Boy! You really caught us off guard there! Our bad!"

And yeah Ush. We do agree on most things. I just don't see bravery in what they did. No warning, attacking innocents, that's not bravery in my mind. But you have a right to your own opinion.

mah- those demonstrating have been brought up to hate American's too. They don't know any better. But the polititcians of those countries know not to f**k with us!

of course not, but is this really helping? for all we know, these anthrax letters could be sent from some angry people in pakistan, triggered by the bombings. bombing taliban airports, what's it good for? i know this is a very complicated case, but what good has the bombing done?

It's a game of chess.

Right now, we are taking out important terrorist installations. Without those sites, the terrorists are on the run, which make them easier to catch. They no longer have facilities to train their troops.

Next, we arrest, or kill them. When they are dead and gone, the game of chess is over.

Then . . . I don't know. We all play Nintendo, or something

but taliban military sites are not terrorist-camps, and many terrorist camps are under-earth. and US-haters in other countries are still there.

but don't get me wrong; i hope these actions will be succesfull and that they get bin Laden, i'm far from sure that they will, but i hope.
and, though i don't agree with everything, i understand that you americans support these actions, that you are eager to hit back on those bastards.
in a few years, i do hope that we sit and talk about this as something in the past, while playing nintendo

Taliban military sites ARE terrorist sites, because the Taliban organization is a terrorist group.

I agree with Tomacco on the bravery thing. No way were the terrorists brave. What were they giving up? Nothing. They had no lives, no souls or conscience. As someone said , they've been brainwashed into hating the world since they were young.

They have no respect for human life and that includes their own. They don't care if they live or not. That's not being brave. Brave is the men and women who are leaving behind everything to go and fight. These people actually care about their lives, but they still go.

Crashing planes into buildings, killing thousands of people including yourself isn't brave no matter what way you look at it.

Thanks KingJedi. I think most people feel like we do, that it wasn't bravery. (because we know it wasn't)

as said before; it's all about how you look at the word 'brave'.

Look at suicide itself! It's not the brave thing to do! It's the cowards way out of life!!!!!

It's easier to kill yourself then it is to turn your life around.

Giving your life for something you believe in isn't always being brave; you can also call it a fundamentalist move

To these people giving your life is nothing. They don't care about their lives.

In their eyes it's bravery. In THEIR eyes. But these are not normal thinking people.

What kind of a twisted soul would get on a passanger flight, then drive it into a building?

Yeah, that's brave.

you ALWAYS care about your life!!!!
I know some guys of Palestinia and they told me that they did this all because it was the only way to get in the news so the problems they had would be in the media.

That's rediculous, yerssot.

Mah- you say we shouldn't be hitting them back? how would you feel if you had a loved one killed by one of the bombings? Would you have the same attitude, or would you want those responsible brought to justice?

We've tried talking, and it hasn't worked. It's missle time.

No Yerssot these people don't value human life like we do.
To us, someone crashing a plane into a building is insane and murder.
To them they think it's justified. They don't care about the people they kill and that includes themselves.

They DON'T think it's justified; they want the world to know that there are problems with this all...
Protests doesn't help so they take the more drastic way...
Some of them are indeed blinded by there faith though

Protest what? Problems with what?

I seem to remember them driving a plane into our buildings. That's where the problem started.

The Taliban is a cancer, that has a stranglehold on Afghanistan. It's the dominating government form there, and they starve their people! So the problem is them.

as i've said, i can understand that americans feel this way, but i still don't see that terrorism will be brought to an end by this.

to bomb for peace, is like fu*king to become a virgin.

Yerssot you just contradicted yourself. You say that the terrorists don't think killing innocent people and themselves is justified. Then you say that they do it so that the world takes notice. That's justifying it!

According to you, the terrorists did this to let the world know what they were about. It worked.

So they were justified in killing innocent people because they got the world to take notice?

They don't care about human life. They even killed Muslims in the attacks on New York. They don't care. They are evil.

bin Ladin wants a war. We didn't want to give him one, but we had no choice. If they won't hand him over, we are forced to go get him!

We're not just dropping bombs over Afghanistan. We had specific sites. And we're also doing more than military, we've frozen certain accounts to cut off financial needs for them.

It's all part of a plan. And the govenment isn't telling us even half of the stuff they are doing probably!

I won't lose any sleep knowing we're responding militarily. They are thinking "oh, poor us!" Well who started it, you jerkoff bin Ladin!

that's all right, but innocent people are also getting killed.

The Taliban care less about it's people than we do. Yes innocent people are dying, but they should have handed Bin Laden over and closed the training camps then.

We are also sending in food and medical aid and are working politically to make sure that a decent government is their to take over when the Taliban are gone. We're helping the people of the country more than the Taliban ever will. Most Afghanistans only fight for the Taliban because it's the only way of making money in one of the poorest countries in the world.

Yes, innocent people are getting killed. And that really sucks. But they were given warning (a MONTH) to get the hell out of the way.

For those who worked in the World Trade Center and Pentagon, their warning was "Oh sh*t! Is that a plane?" BOOOOM

KJ and TO, you seem to forget the thing that everything will happen if there is a reason too. I'm not saying it's justified but I'm saying nothing happens in a decision of 1 second

yes, yes, of course the happenings in america were worse, and were done more cruelly, but i don't think any innocent should die, for any reason. and if i shall accept that some innocent are dying, i want to know that something good is coming out of it, and so far i've only seen the opposite.

Hindsight is a great judge in that sort of thing, and while this is a failure to be sure, preventative intellignece that could have stopped this sort of thing is very difficult to get, no matter how obvious it all seems after it happens. They insist they had no credible warning.

Probablt their biggest mistake was in having NO intelligence from Afghanistan despite knowing the threat there.

And I mean none, A senior CIA member said that their total intelliegence input from that area was zero. Everything the CIA had on the area they got from the British, under the terms of the Special Relationship. And in turn, we got most of our info from Pakistan...

Afghanistan seems to have been too unpleasatant a place for any CIA agent to stay out there to give info. It is difficult to say whether this would have happened anway, but it was still a failing.

But in general, it must be borne in mind how difficult preventative intellignece is. They fluffed up, but it was an easy fluff up that anyone could have made. After all, no other friendly intelliegence service spotted this coming either.

Yerssot I'm not sure what you mean?


Mah I think good will come out of it. But first we need to get the people who did it and make it clear than no one else will get away with it. Then we can start to sort other things out.

As far as I'm concerned, seeing America, Russia and China all agreeing with each other is something good that's come out of this already.

He is trying to trace cause and effect, I think. Perhaps returning to the idea that the action may only create more terrorists in future.

everything has something to do with something from the past...

yes, that IS my point. we'll kill many bad-guys in afghanistan, and some innocent get killed too. therefore the anger of people who doesn't like USA in the first place, explodes and creates a possible terrorist in that person.

the Afghanistan speak of 300 innocent people...

sure thing is a bomb fell on a residential area.

i saw something interesting on the news now, a bit out of this discussion, anyways, it was about the scenes we saw on the 11th september with palestinian people celebrating in the streets.
now the truth has come, some tv-channel found some of the people that we saw, one said: "we did not know that people had died. we knew nothing of the world trade centre, only about some damages on the pentagon building."
several others said: "we didn't know why we were laughing and celebrating. " they said that because tv-cameras were there, they tried to show themselves for the cameras, without knowing anything about the terror-attacks.

the truth is actually that this footage is 10 years old; resented to the CNN or whatever.

er..no, that's not right.

Heheheh... truth... fuzzy concept sometimes.

If were talking about the footage I'm thinking of, wern't most of the celebrators children?

They don't know why they are cheering, because they don't know why they should hate America.

lame excuse

I saying that they are all idiots, finti!

I'm pretty fired up about this whole deal. Read some of my earlier posts in this thread!

I was about to smack Ush for calling terrorist agression and murder 'brave'.

i refered to the palistinians with thelame excuse , Im with the US here all the way. even though in all fairness they dont represent all the palistinian people though. But you will find idiots among all groups of people, regardless nationality or religious belives

didn't you read what i wrote earlier? they didn't know nothing about the WTC! they cheered because of the cameras!

Sigh... I see To is still fired up about that. mIt looks like people ARE going to have to learn this the hard way and it is very tragic. If you cannot understand that you have to be brave to give your life for a cause then that is a very tragic thing. If you think that admitting the suicide pilots had to have guts to do what they did is somehow an insult to the US or in any way a backing of the terrorists, then you are sorely mistaken.

Perhaps when things have cooled things will change. But some of the most terrible acts of history over time have been comitted by brave men, and this is just another.

Terrorists ARE sometimes brave, To, and that is all there is to it.

I read what you wrote, so?

I think it is a lame excuse and that is my opinion on the matter regardless what other people has to say about it.

To be honest, I have heard so much about what those shots were and weren't that I have NO idea anymore.

ehh..okay, once more. a buch of people sees a TV-camera, gets excited and cheers in front of ut. they don't know that a terrorist-attack has happened, and does not reveal their opinion on that matter.
so, finti, it is not an excuse, the images we saw really had nothing to do with the terrorist-attacks! the people didn't know about it!! how does that make them bad

I think Finti just plain doesn't believe that, Mah. He thinks it is just an excuse made after the event.

Bingo USH
eh once more IT IS MY OPINION ON THE MATTER and you can write until you are blue in the face I dont care. I belive they cheered the attack. They might not have been aware of the amount of people killed in the attack but even so...

okay, i respect your believes, just want to add that an english channel was the one ivestigating it, and said this, and that if they wanted to be very clear in front of international TV about whatthey ment, WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS ?????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

afraid of US wrath

okay, maybe we should end this discussion now, but frankly my dear, i don't think they are so afraid, when noone in other countries are, and USA won't kill noone for meaning this or that.

well they are sure as hell meaning businness in Afghanistan and they said it might not be the only "terrorist friendly"country to be delt with

okay, im leaving for today now. i just wanna say that you cannot call palestina a terrorist-friendly country. they are NOT. it's important to remember that. never have they supported the terrorist-actions. i don't like innocent being accused for serious thing like this.

So Hamas is choireboys

Just on a point of politics, when the US talks about 'other actions' (and that stuff is being toned down now, especially as the UK is less happy about extension), I don't think ANYONE in there meant to attack Palestine! Syria, Iraq, Iran, and so on, but not there.

Good point mah..

still will make the Palestinians frightend of US actions

Possibly, To be honest, though, I think a lot of the hard-liners wouldn't be scared no matter what the threat. I still think such people are a rare breed.

Ush, my freind, I still think we have a serious disagreement by the word 'brave'.

There is nothing couragous or brave about suicide. Killing yourself is the easy way out of life.

I do think we have a misunderstanding, yeah.

But honest to God, killing yourself is not easy! It really does take guts. And killing yourself like they did takes a certain amount of insane, twisted guts.

That said, I hear now that they think that a lot of them didn't actually know it was such a suicide mission.

But you know what, To? I think I understand what you are saying. I don't mean brave in the same way as, for example, our troops soon to go into battle are. But in its own way, it was stil,l a sort of bravery those men exhibited.

Ahem....don't you mean 'The Palestinian Territories'....you can't just come out and say.....PALESTINE....its just wrong, and you can't say that! *cries and runs off*

Hark at Mr. literal...

Actually I was just repeating something once Israel said when the word Palestine was used by Jack Straw.

A bit bitter, Raz? You know what it's like out there.

Actually I've never understood why they minded so much that he did say 'Palestine'.

Anyway, time for this topic to close.
If you want to continue this discussion, please feel free to start a new thread.