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With all the talk of ghosts being in aotc, what power could they have. For example can they go anywhere and feel the force, I'm not suggesting that they can move x-wings and stuff but it does raise an interesting point about whether or not ob1 could have been present at the end of rotj in the throne room.

Such was the original plan.

But them exhibiting powers is marginally less likely than them turning up in AOTC at all, which is to say very unlikely indeed.

I don't think its coincidence that in the first 3 films there was evidence of ghosts/spirits in all 3 films and so i think it is short sighted to believe that they won't be in the next two films in some situation. I did read an article in total film yesterday about the ghost thing being Alec Guinesses idea, not Lucas's. Makes the mind boggle, does it not.

The whole ghost thing will have to be discovered fist. Remember, it is no a common occurence., I have no doubt it will be referneced and explained at some point but an Ep. II ghost appearance is highly unlikely.

Obi-Wan couldn't have been in the throne room. The big thing was that Luke was facind Vader and the Emperor alone.

Oddly enough they originally planned for the ghost forms of Obi-Wan and Yoda to be in the final confrontation. Luckily sanity prevailed.

Most definately

I like to think that Luke, though being taught by Ben and Yoda, had to face Vader and the Emperor alone.

That's what OB1 said in ROTJ.

As for ghosts in AOTC....

if there are ANY!

I strongly expect to see more ghosts than I could possibly imagine (and I can imagine quite a lot) in AOTC.

I don't know why, I just think that jedi ghosts will spring up everywhere, particularly in the jedi Council halls and library.

I'd put money on it, but not real money (or my own money) obviously.

They DEFINITELY can't be that common, or Vader would know of them.

*sight*
not again!

Force can't be used at long range either, yerssot...

No! Ask Firemaster, he plays RPG with books and stuff, he said it can be done but is almost impossible

Yeah, because we are SO likely to believe the RPG, yeah?

more likely than speculation...

If you guys don't stop fighting, you're all gonna be ghosts!

Somehow I don't think RPG is a reliable source of information.

It's the closest we will get

Killing Obi-Wan in ANH was Lucas' wifes idea.

If there are ghosts in AOTC then I don't think they'll be the same type as in the OT.

err, no, the ghost idea was alec guinesses he wanted ob1 to be more mystical and so vader killing him was alec's idea.

I've heard a dozen ideas about whose idea it was to do the ghost thing. I remain unconvinced by any,

Yerssot- no, the RPG is not in the slightest bit better than speculation. What it syas is no more authoiritativemthan any idea that you and I come up with and want to say is official. It's an opinion, nothing more.

The DVD has some vague clues, more stuff for speculation. Lucas kept hammering on how he likes cycles, that everything repeats itself.
Well, another repetition is that the mentor dies in the first episode. OB1 in ANH and QGJ in TPM. So maybe, just maybe, it's QGJ that discovers the ghostlike shape..... Who knows. After hearing GL taking about endless repetition and cycles between the PT and the OT, it doesn't sound TOO unlikely QGJ is to appear as a ghost.

Sand Person it was Lucas' wifes idea to kill Obi-Wan and have him as a ghost. Lucas has said that, his ex wife has said it, the ANH producers said it, the other writers said it.

But Alec Guiness didn't. He said it was his idea. This thing has never been conclusive.

Doesn't really matter though. GL did decide to let him die because he had no real purpose for him anymore.

That I think all agree on. And then in turn he invented Yoda because he needed a Jedi back in business for ESB.

Good invention.

I have a Star Wars documentry on tape from the early 1990's and Lucas said it was his wifes idea. He says something about needing to have Obi-Wan help Luke during the Death Star battle. Then it cuts to the other two writers who say his wifes idea made more sense because it added more depth to Obi-Wan and the Force.

But I think we're talking about two different things here. It was Lucas wifes idea to kill Obi-Wan and have him "speak" to Luke from beyond. And at that time it was okay for him to kill Obi-Wan off because he didn't know if he was going to make the other two.

We don't see Obi-Wan as a ghost until ESB.

where he was needed to sent Luke to Dagobah, convincing him with a ghost-appearance

I'm pretty sure GL came up with the ghost long before starting to film ESB. Why else contract Guinness again.

darn it!
don't know

I think he had the idea but he wasn't sure if he really wanted to go with it for a long time..He doesn't like to make decisions like that I think.

True, he makes one movie at a time.

not true, he already taped a scene in Marrocco for Tatooine in EpIII

Also true, but he still had the bulk of the script to write.

not on tatooine again, for a such a small insignificant planet it doesn't half play an important role in the chosen ones life.

nah, he lifed there, got back, his son was there and the life of his son was played their.

I never liked the idea of Anakin growing up on Tatooine myself. Now this "insignificant" planet is important for ALL fates and is portrayed in FOUR of the six films. Quite a bit.

what I know is that Tatooine is in 5 of the 6 movies...

I didn't think Anakin would be from Tatooine either. But if he was from another planet then it raises a lot of questions like how does he meet Owen and Beru? It was easier to have him on Tatooine.

How was that line in TPM?
I came here when I was very little... 3 I guess.
My mother and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt...

Something like that...
So he isn't from Tatooine

He might have meant Watto's shop. Padme says "How long have you been here?". She could mean the shop.

Anakin is not FROM Tatooine, but that' where we see him first.

And I think the original plan was that Owen was OB1's brother. So Ob1 could or should have been from Tatooine or something.

how do you know that so certain queeq?

ROTJ novelisation says that Owen is OB1's brother.

BUT THAT'S EU!!!!
naha! ik mag het er niet bij halen, jij ook niet!

True, very true. I'm not saying it's a fact, I mean Owen will be Anakin's stepbrother. But it seems to me the original plan was different.

But there is no proof of it yet in the movies

Hey, can I just remind you that the ROTJ novel is NOT EU! Under no circumstances can it EVER be EU, no matter what. It can be wrong, but not EU.

Remember, EU is not code for 'wrong', but simply defines those parts of Star Wars that are not directly spun from GL's writing. The ROTJ novel IS spun from GL, so it is not, and never will be, EU.

And it so happens that EU is not canoncial. But it does not follow that everything that is non-canonical is also EU.

And may I remind you that, according to Lucasfilm, the ROTJ novel IS canonical (well, 'semi-canonical', anyway). However, it will be totally overridden by the coming film as far as the Owen Lars/Obi-Wan's brother bit is concerned, as per canon rules that put the movies above all else.


Meanwhile, far more direct proof of the original plan of having Own as Obi-Wan's brother is that it was originally scripted. However, when it came to making the story I doubt it made much sense; having both of them from Tatooine stretched it a bit.

but still the novelization is wrong...
so you can't say a thing about the books; only the movies; otherwhise you can get the same thing they did with ROTJ

Well, I can only repeat that the official line is still that the books count but the movies take precedence where they contradict.

But on the whole, far safer to only count the films.

But they let explanations open...

Queeq I used to think that Anakin wasn''t from Tatooine but that line in TPM could have been about the shop.

What? That it had been sold to Gardulla the Hutt? I dunno, vague answer to Padme's question then....

I personally think from an OT point of view, Owen being OB1's brother makes a lot of sense. That'd be the reason why Luke was there: OB1's home planet, backward, out of the way, controlled by the hutts. His and Owen's oufit looked very much the same as if that was a farmer's outfit.
Now with TPM that perception is gone. Those clothes are now official Jedi outfit (I doubt that they were during filming ANH), Tatooine is not controlled by the Republic and therefore a potential Jedi could not come from Tatooine. So OB1 could not be a Jedi.
But with Anakin from a totally different planet, GL would not have to go through all this complex storytelling to fix the holes. Anakin being born without a father, lives on Tatooine, mother marries Cliegg Lars who already has a son Owen, hence Owen being Anakin's stepbrother.... a lot of communication about family members.... does not do well for storytelling IMHO.

Padme says "how long have you been here" and Anakin says, "since I was very little, three I think. My mom and I were sold to Gardula the Hut but she lost us betting on the pod-races".


So who sold Anakin to Gardula? Who owned him before?

If Anakin and his mother were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, then they must've been somewhere that had slavery which implies Tatooine because we don't know about any other, if any, planets that have slavery. Remember Padme's disbelief? I'm guessing that "How long have you been here?" meant the shop.

That's what I think as well now.

But there are still questions like who owned him before Gardula?

Hmmmm, okay, interesting. Weird conversation that is then but okay. Still doesn't make it less weird that the planet that "farthest from" the proverbial centre of the universe is basically the key to the fate of the universe.

How would that make it less weird?.. I always figured Lucas did that because it's sort of a small-town kid dream..

It's just a bit incredible to believe that Tatooine is a meaningless planet. Every time something happens, people run to Tatooine. That's all, not that I care.

It was certainly implied in ANH that Tatooine was a place where nothing ever happened. I guess they had quickly forgotten the days when it was a major pod-racing attraction.

Indeed..... indeed.

Nothing happened around Luke and where he lived, I think it is more Lukes personal feeling of the place rather than the reality of Tatooine. Seems to me a lot happens in Mos Eisley

yeah, alot that you don't wanna know about.

No, really. Even OB1 said it was remote in TPM. And offworlders are called "outlanders". That definately says something about a out of the way planet.

Regardless of any logical re-interpretation you can do NOW, the point of it is that AT THE TIME we were clearly meant to think that NOTHING had happened on Tatooine ever, and that's why Luke was hidden there.

Not that there is any problem in him changing that, but the point stands.

still think its only Lukes personal opinion, Mos Eisley seemed pretty action packed

it might be a geographical thing, tatooine might be nowhere near corusscant, thus making it miles from anywhere. although if maul could sense the queen on tatooine, why couldn't vader sense his offsprig on tatooine.

Indeed; so clearly Maul could NOT sense the Queen.

he must have sensed something or did he just guess that the ship had landed on tatooine.

How Maul knew how to get to Tatooine is still a debated point, but we have no reason to think it was Jedi senses. And plenty to think that such a thing is impossible.

If he could sense her, he wouldn't have needed his probes. He just knew she was there.

no, he probably had a rough idea that she was on the planet and sent the probes to find her, hence sidous's comment about her not vanishing for the sith. why is senseng a jedi impossible, luke sensed vader, vader sensed luke, vader sensed ob1. doesn't seem to impossible.

But only ever at close range, and only because they had met before. Neither of which would apply to Maul in that case; saying he could 'sense' the Queen from that range is ridicilously powerful and not credibly in line with the rest of things.

and so maul knew the queen was there because?

they knew the ship had dificulties, that allmost every planet was controlled by the TF, and that the only planet nearby that wasn't controlled by them was Tatooine...?

I told you. No-one knows how Maul tracked them. It is one of TPM's omissions that people discuss. But it is absolutely NOT because Maul csn somehow sense where anyone is anywhere in the Galaxy! Nuts!

I think they picked up on the Naboo signal to the ship

It doesn't make any sense to be able to pick up a receipt of a general signal (that signal MUST have been general, because they didn't know where to send it, of course!)

And if it was that simple the Trade Federation could have found her.

off-topic now.

Even with the reshooting, the name Lian Neeson is not with them...

Maul might have calculated the route to take after their escape from Naboo. He simply put himself in their position and came up with the same planet.

Indeed, I have always been amenable to the idea that good detective work and, of course, Force-based instinct allowed Maul to find them.

However:

1. Sidiuous and Maul clearly refer to a 'trace' on Coruscant

2. It doesn't really matter; like I say, you can come up with all sorts of ways to explain it, bit it wasn't explained in the film, which was an omission.