Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Practically all of my threads have been closed. As such, I can't clear up any misunderstandings except in a different thread, hence this one.

As for my Empire - Alliance comparison to the Taliban - Norther Alliance, I never said they were 100% compatible. It had nothing to do with the 'specific' ideals of either other than one being the oppressor and the other being the resistor.

As for being called "naziistic" because of my ideals - talk about hypocrisy on the part of my persecutors! I'm anti-totalitarian. That includes National Socialism. I oppose ALL forms of tyranny, whether Left or Right. Remember, the political spectrum is a circle, not a line. There are 4 quadrants: upper & lower-left and upper & lower-right. Up = freedom. Down = oppression. Left = collectivist. Right = individualist (except for lower-right which is supremacist).

As for the Jarist Allied Resistance, since the Anti-Jar Constortium has manipulated popular opinion through their allies in the media, anyone with a differing opinion is seen as a dissentor and therefore is of an 'underground' (read: unpopular) opinion. I tend to put everything into terms of Right vs. Might. I have an over-analytical mind. I can't help it.

As for the Bill of Rights being part of the government, allow me to explain. The Bill of Rights protects citizens from an overpowered State by acknowledging humanity's inherent freedom. The Constitution is meant to keep government within limits as the servant of the citizens and not the master.

I hope that clears things up. Every accusation made against me is a misunderstanding. If you want me gone, I'll go. I leave you in peace.

Catch you on the Flipside.

Havoc, we want you around but you really need to leave these topics at the door..it makes people uncomfortable and we are here to have a good time. I don't think anyone here want to spend time debating Gun Rights with you. We have diverse political views and we just accept that and move on.

don't look at me; I'm not a mod
wait a sec...

Yeah, what Dim said

This place has plenty of people who like Jar-Jar, HH. The thread was closed by my colleague because it belonged in Promotions. We are not about suppressing debate here but things must go in their place.

As for the rest of it... gee, that really could cause a huge debate. I think Dim is right in wanting it left behind. But just be aware that there are some people that will find your views extremely oppressive, and that is not because of a misunderstanding of vour views, but because it simply scares the crap out of them. Personally I understand what you say and where you are coming from just fine, though I agree with barely any of it.

We'd be out of order to not want you around just because of some of your views, however.

So, as far as I am concenred, stick around. But as I explained in the Welcome forum, if your threads get closed, it's not because we are trying to censor you, it is because they upset people and will only cause trouble. It's nothing personal. But the wishes of all people here must be taken into account, not just your own.

Damn straight it was. Keep the Spam in the Monty Pyphon threads...

OH, and for the record, YES!!!! The more the merrier, I just find some of your threads a little..... out there.

Stick around chap.

BTW is your "catch you on the flipside" from The Boondock Saints film, cus thats a classic!

Nah, actually it's a reference to Kidd Video - one of my favorite '80s cartoons. I say it all the time.

~~~~~

"But the wishes of all people here must be taken into account, not just your own."

I wouldn't ask anything else. But don't I qualify as a person?

~~~~~

I refer to almost everything in terms of oppressor vs. resistor. It's just something you have to get used to with me. I refer to anything that isn't mainstream as 'underground'.

Of course you do! And your wishes ARE taken into account, I assure you.

If I put something in the wrong forum, just move it. I don't mind. I just don't like it when I make a thread and a bunch of people reply to it after taking it all out of context and then it gets deleted or closed so I can't explain things without complicating everything by having to make another thread just to explain myself.

By the way, what if I find a politically-correct viewpoint to be offensive? After all, political-correctness and Zero-Tolerance ideals heinously violate the entire concept of individuality and freedom. Since individuality and freedom are the basis of my ideology, why shouldn't I be offended? And while I bring that up, why would anyone be offended by me if I believe in freedom and individuality? Why would those ideals offend anyone unless they were a tyrant - which I don't think you guys are.

This isn't the first time this has happened to me. This happens to me all the time, everywhere I go (no wonder Jar Jar is my hero!). It reminds me of the last line of the theme song from Weird Science: "...why can't people understand...my intentions?"

Well, it's a complex area, to be sure, however, I think you will find yourself isolated if you go down that road.

Anyway, I think Dim was right in not wanting an argument about all this, and she IS mod around here... I'd happily argue it all day (and not in an accusatory way,. I assure you), but it's not a good idea, it'll only bring up bad feeling once everyone gets involved

So if you think we are all wrong in how we feel about you, fine. I'd love to talk you out of that but it's just a bad road to go down. Let;s keep things happy.

I don't think that's possible Ush. It's turned into "American History X" around here.

OOOOO, that was a really good movie. So sad the ending was

Good but disturbing.

nothing wrong with disturbing

some disturbing films are among the best, like Requiem for a Dream. but disturbing posts are another matter.

HH, I understand your frustration. When I first got here (a month or two ago) I didn't understand the logic here, either. And to tell you the truth, I still don't.

I agree that this forum is for fun, and should be left at fun. I've questioned authority here, in the closing of my forums, or the seriousness some people took my harmless fun.

In our busy lives of working, school, or whatever, it's nice to get on a forum and say what you want.

I must tell you, I do disagree with your views on politics, but those are YOUR views, and they should be honored (or at least respected) here. As long as you're not preaching to people, it should be cool.

However, ( and don't take this as an insult) you do seem to have a rather disturbing outlook on government. I respect what you think, but now (especially after Sept. 11), anyone who comes in and says "Government sucks ass" is stepping up to the plate for trouble.

You should stick around. I had my doubts when I first arrived. But I'm glad I'm still here. I have a busy life, and I have hundreds of friends, but I really do like coming here at the end of my day to see what my killermovies.com buds have to say about life.

Stay here. We'll get to know you. I'm sure that you mean no harm, and in time, everyone will see that.

Peace, bud.

Yes stay around and be 'one' with the forum

To me that would be a sign...

. . . . . . .

he didn't ment that HH! Note the ''

HH, I'd be happy to have you around. But leave room for debate.

As for the closing policies...once you start slapping terms like totalitarianism around here in criticising what kind of threads we'd like to keep open or closed, then I just close. If you think you can force me into not closing by calling our work totalitarian, then that's just EXACTLY what I'll do.

Otherwise, have fun and enjoy the ride. This place can be a little rough.

in Luke's voice "I'm ready for anything"

Try this old dutch cheese dish then (stinka dore)

Ohh Damn! I'll pass on that!

I thought you would

That stuff sounds pretty nasty. I've herd of Old Dutch potatoe chips, but not old dutch cheese dip! Man, that must stink!

*pulls on gas mask and hands yerss his before he passes out*

I saw 'American History X'. Did you know that Edward Norton put on 30 pounds of muscle to play the part of Derek Vinyard?

But why would I remind you of THAT movie? Does anyone here really think I'm a Nazi? I'm a LIBERTARIAN! And I voted for Bush! Libertarianism and GWB are incompatible with National Socialism.

~~~~~

"But leave room for debate."

gladly.

"As for the closing policies...once you start slapping terms like totalitarianism around here in criticising what kind of threads we'd like to keep open or closed, then I just close. If you think you can force me into not closing by calling our work totalitarian, then that's just EXACTLY what I'll do."

Oh, so you're the type who doesn't like people who question authority. I believe that all authority must be questioned. It's what we Americans refer to as 'checks & balances'. Citizens are supposed to keep their government in check, not the other way around. That's the way all societies should work, whether real or virtual. Society should be constructed from the bottom-up, not from the top-down, owtherwise it should be destroyed.

Okaky..I don't understand what you're talking about..you're the one who used the term totalitarianism.. As for questioning authority. I don't mind it..but I do expect you to respect authority..and trust us when we say it's for the best. because we are looking out for the board..

I was watching Toy Story on TV last night..and I just realized that you're Buzz Lightyear..(real urge to scream "YOU ARE A CHILD'S PLLLAAAAAAAAAY THING!" at you) Lighten up man..it's a movie board.

Exactly. There are plenty of politics boards around for you to use.

HH, you should go to the official Bjork Message board, those people are open to anything

Yeah both of them who post there

.....but no........theres over 10,000 registered users Your probably one of them

10,000!!!!!! I could by my own ship for that.

who is gonna fly it haggis you?

"I was watching Toy Story on TV last night..and I just realized that you're Buzz Lightyear..."



Nah. I'm more of a cross between Joe Dirt, Ted Nugent, Jar Jar Binks, and Ash Williams (just ask anyone who knows me). I can admit to what I am. I'm not ashamed. Buzz isn't clumsy enough to be anything like me. The only part where Buzz resembles me is when he flips out once he realizes he's a toy, referring to himself as Mrs. Nezbit.

I have some questions to ask you people.

*What if your face fell off?
*What if your face fell off and flew away?
*What if Jar Jar was real?
*What if there was an owl in your spleen?
*What if there was an eye in your brain?
*What if there was an undead rat in your pancreas?
*What if your pancreas turned against you?
*What if you had a pancreas in your brain?
*What if your bone marrow was replaced with plaster?
*What if you had tar for blood?
*What if an insane clown doctor was performing brain surgery on you whilst you was awayk?
*What if you were getting dissected by living dolls?
*What if living mannequins tormented you and bah'd at you?
*What if klowns cocooned you in cotton candy and drank you?
*What if you drank Tenafly Viper while sitting on a toilet and you melted and flushed yourself down the toilet?

HH, you think QUEEQ, of all people, does not like those who are anti-authority?

Ok, HH, you are many things, but you are NOT a good judge of people!

He has much to learn indeed.

I'm starting to really like this HH person. Those questions are great, strange and different, I like it
I take it there are no 'right' answers?

Yes, son. You is correct. There am no right answers to...questions, the.

~~~~~

I just thought of something. You say I can't talk about certain things but isn't this the General Discusstion forum? Does it not say in the description, "Get to know your fellow posters, and discuss anything you want."? That must mean that you don't really want to get to know me if you don't want me to discuss things beyond what you deem "appropriate." That makes Hound feel bad.

Did you come up with that all by yourself Tex?

It's just a matter of common sense, Hound. Honestly, now you are just twisting things; it's almost as if you are trying to martyr yourself. I don't know what you hope to achieve,

Yeah, this is general discussion, but there are limits. Subjects that will offend or upset significant portions of the board are rightfully closed; we come here for a good time, not to be upset. For example, if anyone started a thread full of 'US deserves what it got, sucks and must die' comments we'd close that pretty quick as well.

Also, HH, I didn't make up that line "discuss anything you want".

I wanna know where you came up with the clown and living doll stuff...ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!

damn clowns..

Dim, I also watched Toy Story on TV the other day. What a great film! Hanks rules!

I like the refereal of clowns from the movie "Killer Klowns from Outer Space" Has anyone seen that? HH obviously has.

I hate clowns *shudders* I hate people in masks...hate them all..

Ronald McDonald is scary, don't you think?

"For example, if anyone started a thread full of 'US deserves what it got, sucks and must die' comments we'd close that pretty quick..."

Good! THAT'S the type of stuff you SHOULD close.

Yes, Ronald McDonald is a freak..and yes I would close that thread if anyone was dumb enough to post it.

Easy to say if you're an American....

What? I would say the same if it was any country..even the UK

I believe you would.

Should I stop playing Ronald McDonald in the weekends????

Only if you wife doesn't object

See, HH? You wouldn't defend THAT kind of post in the interests of free speech, would you? There are people in the UK that think like that; not many, but they are there, and I am sure they wouldn't want to be silenced either, but they will be, because that's the right thing to do. Once you accept the principle that some threads must be closed, you should accept that a thread that offends many board members WILL be closed. And it's nothing personal.

*gets clown gun and runs over to guard Dimmy*


We're pretty topical here, HH. I mean we all poke fun at each other but its all just that. Fun. We come here to laugh and have a good time just being silly. Some topics are obviously more serious than others and there can be good debates without offending people.

Ush, this is where you insert an archival reference. There's a dear.

There was myself and Raz arguing over global warming a few months back. Raz wanted to widen it up but no-one else was interested. Thread was called 'The Real Star Wars'. Oh yeah, we also argued about the Star Wars missile defence system in it.

Intense stuff, but seriously non-hostile. He's still wrong, though (heheheh...)

You both were wrong

I think I blasted the archives.....oops.

Ah, sorry about that. I didn't read the last two posts.... It happens.

well so what

Since when do YOU read what I post?

But we hang off of your every word...

WHY, for heavens sake?

Am I trying to martyr myself? No.

~~~~~

A thread about killing America (or any other country) doesn't qualify as free speech, only verbal terrorism. I don't endorse that. I never have.

Besides, that would be a contradiction. It would be like someone saying, "I hate America because I hate freedom yet I have the freedom to say that I hate freedom because I'd rather have tyranny." Therefore, anyone who claims that hating America is free speech is a hypocrite.

My ideals and a lot of the things I like to talk about have to do with individuality and maximum freedom. So to close threads that deal with liberty is to oppose liberty.

I can understand closing threads that personally attack a specific person on this board. I never attack. I only defend (Yoda taught me that). But if I want to talk about killer klowns or guns or Jar Jar or libertarianism or whatnot, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to. If those kinds of things offend someone, then they're too touchy about the wrong things. Don't get me wrong. Sensitivity is good. I'm a sensitive person myself. But there's a huge difference between sensitivity and just being easily offended by things that shouldn't be considered offensive. It's like blaming id Software and the entire video game industry for what happened at Columbine just because Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were avid players of Doom II: Hell on Earth.

I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong it is to say that it is automatically hypocritical to defend anti-American comments as free speech. They may well be wrong but how can you say they are automatically wrong? Is America immune to criticism or something? These things have to be judged individually. And you are way wrong if you think they did this to your country because you are free.

It is also breahtakingly arrogant to assume people are over-sensitive to be offended by some of the topics you started.

We happened to think that their senstivities were valid. You CANNOT automatically dismiss their views as wrong, adn assume that everyone else should as well. Personally, I do not think you stand for liberty at all; your views scare the heck out of me, and quite frankly there is nothing that has made me so happy that governments run countries and not extremist members of the public. You couldn't have more strongly sent me in the opposite direction to what you beleive. You always assume that when we disagree it is because we don't understand where you are coming from; I repeat, it's actually because we understand all too well.

I would not censor your views just because I disagree with them. But you seem to assume that any position contrary to your views is not only wrong, but impossible. Well, that is not so.

You clearly do not agree that their sensitivies were valid. I am sorry about that, but there is no way we are going to put your wishes to be able to say whatever the heck you like (unless, of course, it is something you seem to find offensive, like the US attacks thing) above the very reasonable wishes of other members of the community that such threads are inappropriate. We would not be doing a responsible job as moderators if we let such threads continue.

So, you can either live with that or not; stay here with that being the case or not. The situation will not change, and our position has been made clear.

I think you've misunderstood me again. I was just using the US attack thing as an example since it got brought up. I'm American to the core. I voted for Bush and I think he's doing the right things. I'm not an absolute government-hater. I just believe that the people of a nation should be in charge, not some tyrannical elitist oligarchy. I'm the opposite of an elitist - whatever you might call me.

I'm tired of trying to explain myself. I've tried and tried and still no one understands, here or anywhere else. There's no reason for me to keep trying.

"I would not censor your views just because I disagree with them. But you seem to assume that any position contrary to your views is not only wrong, but impossible. Well, that is not so."

You're putting words in my mouth.

~~~~~

And about the sensitivities thing, what if I decided that every topic started by an Anti-Jar, a communist, or a gun-control advocate offended me? Would you respect my sensitivity to such things? Of course not! You know why? Because I'm not the status-quo! You only defend the status-quo! My perspective defies the world as you know it, therefore you don't see me for who I am, only as the misconceived spector you think I am - evidenced by your denial of my belief in unhindered freedom. I truly believe in full-on liberty. You can't convince me that I don't because I know what I believe.

And i never said that only MY perspective is the only good one. It isn't even 'my' perspective. I didn't invent the concept of freedom. It's something that exists that I recognize. Freedom is the natural state of humankind, the yearning of the human spirit. Tyranny is against nature. That's what I believe and you can't tell me I don't believe that.

I'm different, that's why you don't understand me. I don't blame you. It happens all the time. I wish we could have gotten off on a different foot. Can we at least shake on it?

Sigh... again, it seems like you are trying to martyr yourself; no-one understands you; no-one tries to understand you; the world is against you...

Ok, Look, I'm sorry if it seems that way, and maybe I was a bit harsh there. I DO unserstand what you say. I even think some if it is valid. I don;t agree with most of it, but what the heck should yuo care about that? But I DO understand what you say, I assure you.

Now, it is unfortunate for you that your views, that you wish to discuss, are deemed inappropriate for this board. But in the end, I am afraid, that's just how it is. I wish we could talk about anything in the world with everyone being level-headed and no-one being offended, but that;s not the way it works.

Is there any chance I can ask you to trust us when we say that allowing those threads to be open was a bad idea? That might seem a bit nuch, but some of these people have been modding a lot longer than I have and they have seen some threads mess up places before. In many ways, we have to pl;ay it safe. SO I am sorry; there is plenty we will talk about but there HAVE to be limits; the mods decide where those limits are and in this case they decided those threads were over it.

As for the opposite of an elitist? That's a tricky one, because it is technically a socialist but that's not where I think you are.

A socialist is a type of oligarch, therefore is an elitist. Your socialist views offend me. Get thee hence and ban yourself before I start to cry.

Nah, I'm just jerkin yer chain. But really though, there are many leftist-elitists. Socialism is a form of bureaucratic collectivism in which society is believed to be greater than the individual, hence the term "social-ism." It's specifically an economic form in which the State is all-powerful and the people have no power. Communism is both economic and political. I make no distinction between communism and fascism. Tyranny is tyranny.

If anything, I'm the right-wing breed of anarchist. Don't be afraid. I'm your friend. Only inhuman dictators need fear me.

~~~~~

By the way, it's okay if you don't want me to talk about these things. I'll just concentrate more on talking abou...JAR JAR!!

Difficult to pigeonhole you, though I think as far as categories go, it'll be hard not to call you an individualist.

I'll ask my brother; he knows all about this.

Anyway. Sorry things got a little unpleasant there; sorry about your defunct threads (looking back at it, not many were closed for inappropriate nature; for example, one got closed by queeq because it was too similar to another (and then the other one got closed, in turn, by Dim)), I hope everything works out peachy from here. Ok?

BTW, Socialism doesn't have ti have an all-powerful state. Just look at the UK. Labour gets accused of being a Nanny state but in the end, power is VERY devolved around here.

Be that as it may seem, I still prefer a constitutional republic. Otherwise, give me anarchy. Statism (regardless of what form it takes on) is the greatest evil.

btw, I love Jar Jar.

Yeah. we kinda got that impression...

Havochound have a bone

See, this is where the clue lies. Maximum freedom and individuality leaves little room for those who cannot enforce their own freedom and indivduality, i.e. the weak in society. Because from your point of view, HH, in a "power to the people or anarchy" point of view, only the strong, powerful and rich take control and make the world their playground. This is not theory, just reality. Just look at how US democracry works, the big economic factors dominate society.

So all in all you seem (NOTE: SEEM) to prefer a society where you can do whatever you want, where you are not hindered by anything or anyone. Well, here's my advice: buy an uninhabited island in the south pacific and try living there by yourself: room for individuality and maximum freedom. Enjoy!

Democracy is not freedom, it's mobocracy.

~~~~~

Freedom is not something that can be enforced upon others.

~~~~~

I agree with you about the rich and the powerful. That's what the Second Amendment is there to acknowledge - our civic duty to overthrow the government once it becomes oppressive, unjust, and corrupt. The problem is that not enough people are willing to take up arms against the politicians, bankers, lawyers, corrupt cops (and that's specifically the corrupt ones), and the rich and the powerful. Only once those elements of society have been exterminated all across the world can humanity know true freedom. It's Right vs. Might. Some day, the tables will turn.

Hmmmmmmm..HH..the Second Admendment doesn't say all that..you're putting words in the Second Amendment's mouth..

"A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

See that? It says "people." That means the individual. We ARE the militia. The people are a self-regulatory militia, as individuals. We can form organized militias if we want to, but even if we don't, we're still a militia, even if we're an official disorganized one.

A free state can't exist unless we're willing to fight tyranny in all its forms. Therefore, I wasn't putting words in the Second Amendment's mouth.

I'll e-iterate that the last thing I want is power being given to the people like that. It is a terrifying prospect. If that is how it was done we'd still be living in the trees.

I have faith and confidence in government, and people who seem to think that people have a responsibility to raise in armed protest against it scare the heck out of me. Democracy is self-regulating as it is; tyranny is near impossible with it.

The meaning of the Second Amendment is debatable. What is less debatable is that it is killing a LOT of people.

Quite. And such an attitude just gives power to the people who have the weapons. Now, I wouldn't like that at all.
In your scenario only big guns get you freedom and individuality. Again, only you. May I remind you that we live on this planet with some 5 billion people. Or in the words of Steven Spielberg: "We are not alone."
Try selling your gun and buy some food for a poor person who has no money.

US militia well there you got some gun crazy rednecks with limited knowledge of what is happening in the world.

The way it seems now it's people like that that's sending anthrax by mail these days. Nice going.

Well they need to prove that first though and in my opinion you need some brain to do that anthrax thing . So that would rule out the militia guys

Yes, sending a letter is quite complicated.

dont forgett the licking of the stamp and glue it to the envelope part, to complicated for them

Indeed.

In fact, first step in training for a guy to become member of a suicide squad is licking the envelopes with anthrax.

and try to figure out why it does not stick

Wipe the powder off your tongue etc.

Still kind of scary though, remind my self not to apply for a job on the post office

There is a good deal of accountability and democratic principle here, of course. When people like tha claim they are 'defending my rights', I get extremely nervous. I don't remember asking these people to act against the system in what THEY think are my interests. As far as I am concerned, that is power assumed and stolen.

Amazing how quickly you can become what you hate...

nah could never become a Swede

HavocHound has seen Fight Club too many times.

"The meaning of the Second Amendment is debatable. What is less debatable is that it is killing a LOT of people."

You really think the Amendment itself is going around killing people? That makes no sense!

~~~~~

"dont forgett the licking of the stamp and glue it to the envelope part, to complicated for them"

"...you need some brain to do that anthrax thing . So that would rule out the militia guys"

Just keep thinking that. At least we're willing to fight against totalitarianism, not just talk about it.

"The way it seems now it's people like that that's sending anthrax by mail these days. Nice going."

No proof! Why would you assume that? You're thinking in the pattern the System wants you to think in. Militias are there to protect, not to terrorize. So you have everything backwards.

"US militia well there you got some gun crazy rednecks with limited knowledge of what is happening in the world."

Wrong. We have greater knowledge than most about what's happening in the world. That's why they call us "paranoid."

The bottom line is - you have us figured all wrong.

"Try selling your gun and buy some food for a poor person who has no money."

No need for that. I could just buy them a meal and give them some clothes and then give them a gun and teach them how to hunt. Then they would be able to sustain their own life independently without having to rely on others. Most people who call themselves human beings aren't very cheritable.

You know perfectly well what I meant, HH. It's causing the deaths of a lot of people.

Again, your way only gives freedom to those strong enough to take it for themselves; it's no system I want anything to do with., I repeat. We haven't got you figured all wrong; we have you figured all right and that is why we don't like it.

You have no right to assume guardianship or power of any part of the political system outside of the ballot box. And thank God for that...

"You have no right to assume guardianship or power of any part of the political system outside of the ballot box."

Why not? Who does?

Do you really believe that people can't govern themselves? Do you really think government has the peoples' best interest in mind? Governments are just like corporations, they're in it for themselves. Everyone deemed subordinate to the elitist bureaucracy is treated like just another brick in the wall.

I don't know about you but I don't wan to be just another brick in the wall. We are human beings. We're not expendable pawns of the State. And we're not minions of Big Business. We are free individuals. Everyone should treat each other as people, not property. We're not just material objects.

~~~~~

If the only decision we're allowed to make is which politician to vote for, then we truly are living under the yoke of a totalitarian state. We have become a conformist society of cubicle slaves living lives of misery and blandness disguised behind the veil of hedonistic physical glamor. Professionalism is valued more highly than virtue. People dress like peacocks, worshipping their own image, wearing formal suits and ties and dresses and adorning their bodies just to please others.

I declare that since society is the cause of all this misery, society should be abolished. I am an advocate of the abolition of society.

Yes, I firmly beleive government is in the interests in the people. I believe the people make it that way through systems of accoutability, and I find your comparison with corporations facile.

NO-ONE has to right to assume power without a mnandate from the people.

The abolition of scoeity would be a complete diasaster, The attribution of a love of styler anmd the expression of indiviudality to some form of societal breakdown is simply blindness.

The vote is a powerful, POWERFUL tool. Do not dismiss it so easily. The power to chose who rules as is enormous power indeed. And you will find no better system. People CANNOT be trusted to rule themselves; it has been shown time and time again. They do not have the time, inclination or aptitude to go through the incredibly complex business of running a coutnry, You would not ask a farmer to run a nuclear power station or a nuclear physicist to run a farm; likewiseI only expect a politician to make political decisoins, but we as the people, by exercising our vote, have CONTROL over the polticians; it is the slant of our entire society.

Let me tell you something, HH. I CANNOT support myself. I am dependant on the state to support me.

You would see this done away wioth. Who would look after me then? You, and people like you? Who are you accountable to? Who ensures you stay on the straight and narrow? What happens if you decide to take liberties? Who will protect me if I cannot protect myself and there is no system that requires anyone else to do it on my behalf?

Or perhaps the more laudable parts of civilisation do not fit into your great plan? Perhaps those who cannot look after themselves should be left aside?

What you describe is a nightmare. What we have right now is not perfect but at least it is workable. What you want there is dreadful indeed.

.Posted by Hacvochound.

They are so ignorant they hardly know the name of foreign countries let alone their political structure. Looking at UN as an invading force. The US militia aint paranoid, they are completely stupid.
When I moved to Arkansas in 1985 they(FBI) broke the Arkansas militia, the militia guys(around 30 or more) were arrested and also interviewed on TV. I heard what that group had to say and I promise you I was shocked about their lack of knowledge of the surrounding world.

Posted by Hacvochound.


Not all countries have a wild life or the possibility for hunting, this just show YOUR lack of knowledge of other countries. And human have a instinct to hunt from birth. So in desperate times this will come back to them.

I have to agree with Ush and fint.. What you're saying, HH, is very fashionably shocking but it doens't have much basis in reality...sorry.

I'm afraid it does, Dimmy. That's why he's so scary.

No it doesn't..He's embraced this whole ideal of how the world should be off of this right wing dumb American attitude when there's alot more of the world out there that they're not considering nor do they really care about ...Most militia types don't know anything about the global economy or how people live in this world..they just want to fill their heads full of spy game compiracy theories.

I know that. But there's quite a number of them and they make each other believe they're right.

Sad and scary..

Poor HH.

so you are a member of the US military? and they agree with your thoughts? now that's scary with your bizarre thoughts of a 'perfect world' where everyone is his own master, all will be chaos in a couple of days.

Dont mix the US military with US or state militia. State militia are those ignorant gun crazed redneck who belive Mars is the capitol of Serbia

still scary that so many believes in that HH-talk.

This reminds me of the time I was picking coffee beans in Gautemala. On the plane there, this guy (who thought he was going to France) kept telling me that Goverments should be brought down and people should govern themselves. I think his name was Kobiyashi or something. Anyway I didn't pay much attention. But a few months later when I was in America I saw his name in a newspaper.
He'd been shot dead by his 7 year old neighbour who found his fathers shot-gun.

You think you have me all figured out, but you don't. I'm a nice guy. I like doing nice things for people. But just because I'm a nice guy doesn't mean I'm submissive.

For those of you who are dependent on the State, wouldn't you rather be liberated? If we were all our own master (at least politically), then the world would be chaos - true - but only if chaos is synonymous with freedom.

Order is the goal of the tyrannical. Order is oppression. The abolishion (sp?) of society and bureaucracy is the only way to find liberation. You don't have to believe me.

Keep in mind that I can only show you the door. YOU are the one who must walk through it.

I think the only one here who's relying on the state is Ush..and that's because he's got been pretty ill the last few years. he needs financial support to get by. It's not a matter of being liberated..it's a matter of health.


As for being nice..I never doubted you were a nice guy, HH..just a little misguided. So, we're just going ot have to agree to disagree.

And living here I feel very free and very liberated. Much more so than if everyone owned guns and the world was just one big free for all where only the strong would survive. HH what you are describing is the Wild West.

Nobody said you are not a nice guy HH, here we go all defensive again


Order is not oppression, you must obtain some sort of order or else it ends in Anarchy. Laws are orders and we need laws regardless what those redneck militia guys think.
A chain of command is order and how is the chain of command among Billy Bob and his friends out in the bush. Why do they have a leader?.. It is to obtain an order so it can excist. They got rules to go by just like society, and if they say otherwise they are a lying bunch of hicks besides the fact that they then dont have a clue about what they are talking about.

So if you are against society what the hell are you doing surfing on the net?

Thanks Dim. I guess HH didn't quite understand what I meant when I said that I CANNOT support myself... I guess he thought I was just a work-shy layabout.

Ooh! Not so far off the mark after all...

And by this enormous post count I guess we've shown we want you around, HH.

Closing.