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plane gone down in Queens New York, not any info beside this, yet

*sigh* well, this makes me feel really good about flying..

Airbus A300 took of from JFK and crashed 2 minutes after take off.

255 (246 Passengers, 9 crew) people on board, all believed dead.

At this time it is NOT thought to be a terrorist attack.

All US Airports have been closed as a security measure.

Some witnesses mentioned something about an explotion right before the crash. But it is all gonna be speculations for the moment.
All the airports?, they just mentioned that the New York airports were closed.

Only NYC airports closed.

Why would a terrorist pick Queens?

But shocking nonetheless...

I don't believe this is a terrorist act, just a terrible, terrible coincidence that bit happened in New York.

They think an engine blew up during take off.

Looks like it nay have been in the engine support strutt. Seems the engine may have come away from the wing.

A bird probably flew into the engine, is my guess. That is a nice way for me to wake up today. I turn on the radio, "Plane goes down in NY." I feel sick.

giuliani says that an engine, or engine part, fell off before the plane crashed. i don't know, but it seems like an accident.

the motor DID fall off, there are also 4 houses on fire

I doubt it was a terrorist attack, yet I don't doubt the Taliban will claim responsibility.

Taliban NEVER claimed any responsibility for anything. They are not a terrorist organisation.

Yes, the engine fell off and there are two crash sites in Queens: one of the engine, one of the plane itself.

Still odd, these planes can even fly on one engine.

mind you that Taliban isn't an organization but a type of governement

The Taliban isn't a terrorist organization, huh? Explain that one, queeq.

well it isn't, it's just a really stupid, not-elected-by-the-people government.

They're terrorists. They may not lable themselves as terrorists. But any group of people that kills innocents without warning is a terrrorist.

so i guess the US government are terrorists?

uh oh

When did the US kill innocent people without warning?

They kind of shot down an airbus in 1988. same type of plane that crashed in NYC today

That was an accident.

afghanistan, as I think you know.

just want to tell you, this is YOur definition of terrorists, and if that is to follow, the US government is, and has been many times, terrorists.

i'm not saying this to make trouble, it's just what i mean.

mah, that is so rediculous. You have no idea what you're talking about.

We gave the Taliban 30 days to hand over bin Ladin. We arn't attacking the civillians, just the terrorist networks. Innocent people may be getting killed, but its not on purpose.

If we wanted to kill all of the Afghanie's then why drop food for them?

Don't get me fired up, mah.

i don't want to get you fired up To, i'm just saying that many civilians have been killed, and thousands of thousands are trying to flee to pakistan, but can't and won't survive the winter.

to be frankly, the food-packages are not helping much.

also, in vietnam?

UPDATE:
150 people died
engine (motor) fell down, plane couldn't be got back under control...

I don't know how people will take this but is anyone else kind of hoping that terrorists were involved? I mean if it was an accident, what can we do about it? We just have to accept that these things happen.
But if terrorists were involved then we have answers as to why it happened and can do something about it.

I felt like this after Sept 11 as well.

UPDATE:

news here said that they didn't scanned the lugage so they can't say if it was a bomb or not...

Hoping terrorists were involved?!?!?!????? Ummmm NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! How do you think those people's familes would feel. It's easier accepting that there loved ones died in an accident then being murdered. That's crazy talk! The last thing I need right now is more terrorists!!!

it was a result of bad judgement an a trigger happy commander.
Still they killed innocent people without a warning, accident or not

Well I think that planes crashing into buildings by accident is FAR scarier than if it was terrorists. If it's terroists then you can do something about it. There is someone to blame.

If it's an accident you just have to accept that these things will happen now and again and I think that is a lot scarier.

I heared that the iron in the plane got 'tired' like we say here... loosing it's hardness and stuff

We can do something about terrorist attacks, KJ? If it was a terrorist act then obviously we can't.

And To, Taliban is NOT a terrorist organisation. THey ARE a type of government. And the US is NOT just attacking the terrorist network's locations, it's also attacking the Taliban strongholds. THe reason that they're attacking the Taliban is NOT because they are terrorists, but because they are HARBOURING terrorists and are not willing to give them up. Better get your facts straight, To.

Yes, To. Queeq is right. It is Al Qaeda that is a terrorist organisation. The Taliban is a government, and the strong suspicion is that the Taliban aids Al Qaeda, but try not to see them as the exact same thing.

Now, while you probably don't care about the distinction, the important point is that the Taliban are not people that go around claiming 'responsbility' for terrorist attacks any more than any other government- it doesn't happen

What I think you meant is that Al Qaeda would claim responsbility anyway. Well, that is also very unlikey; not only have they never claimed responsbility for something they haven't done, they very rarely claim responsbility for anything at all, whether they do it or not.

If yoy want an important difference- the Taliban may support Al Qaeda and therefore MUST be removed to deal with that organisation, it was in the end Al Qaeda who carried out the attack on yor country. The Taliban would not have done it thelselves,; indeed, no-one in the US thinks so and no-one is the US has ever said that the Taliban themselves are terrosists. Enemies maybe, but not terrorists.

So I am afraid you were a little off the ball there, To.

So that was just a basic mis-understanding, really. I don't think we need to get into another 'is the US as bad as x or y...' or so on in this particular thread. Again, this is a time to be sorry for the bereaved.

I think you will find most people are more scared by terrorists, KJ. Because people accept that accidents happen. People aren't willing to accept being deliberately killed.

indeed a time to think and be sorry for the ones who have lost their loved ones, but it doesn't mean that a good discussion should be stopped.

KJ, if the crash would have been a terrorist attack it would've been far more scarier, we would then know that they hadn't stopped and would continue with attacks, and also that the security at the airports were not strong enough.

This isn't the thread for it, Mah. I don't want the two issues to get mixed.

well, ok

i'd just like to say that i feel for the people in new york, how this can happen, accident, intentional or fate, it is terrible. i was very upset when this happened. i saw the twin towers attack and i was almost in tears then. (i'd been at the top a month earlier on my 21st b'day on the 4th July). New york's great, such diversity and yet so "great" why this should happen to the people of ny i only hope god knows.

i've put this in a different reply because it might upset people.

even if the crash today was a mistake, no way would bush or the mayor of ny say it was a terroist attack. even if it was, the public of ny are scared now, i'm scared in engalnd. altough i hope it was an accident i have my doubts.

I very much doubt they would lie about it, SP. That's just paranoia. They would be heading to a world of trouble if they did.

how can we say whats true, there's no way. i don't control what's broadcast. neither do you. the allied troops might be doing crap, i don't know, do you?

there's no way they would admit to another terrosrist attack, there is such a thing as state secrets, why scare the public when there is no need to.

Because of the free press, SP. You can beleive in a paranoid fantasy world where every single news organisation in the world ffeeds us bull, but most people aren't so silly. These facts are coming to us from independant organisations and we have no reason to doubt them (excpeting that they are fallible, of course).

State secrets happen with shadowy things, not blindingly obvious things like this crash. And lying about it would be pointless, would not cause any great social beneift, and the truth WOULD come out, and then it would be far worse.

besides, if it was terrorists, are they to pursue those people that did it, catch them and try them in silence? NO. Far better to pursue them catch the, and try them in the public eye.

It is rather astonishing to suggest that a US government would act like this with an issue with so much public interest. I suppose you think they are planning to cover up all future terrorist attacks againt the US for all time? Why would they treat it any different from every other country in the world where theser things are always reported?

No They would tell people, and it is simply paranoid to beleive otherwise.

it is not paronoid to believe that they would cover up these events, if i was president i would say that i would cover up another terroist attack on the us almost 2 months after the first attacks and on veterans day, just to protect from a mass panic.

the war in afghan is public interest? i'm sure that the press are not telling us everything about this war, they can't because of security.

ps, i'm not silly, i wouldn't tell a country that we had been attacked the same way in two months regardless of who or what i was. and no i'm not saying that they should cover up every terroist attack (if there are any), i'm just saying they have no reason to worry people when they are already woried enough.

SP10, there is no reason for our government to cover up another terrorist attack. Daily, we have news about new cases of anthrax, showing up all over the country.

I don't think it was a terrorist attack today.

Most of you know me, because I've been here for a while. And I want to say something very personal, and VERY straight from my heart; for all of you who think that America (or any of it's supporters are the bad guys **** YOU!!!!!

I'm a very level headed person, and I sympathize with reason. However, there is no reason that the Al-Quida AND Taliban attacked the free world on Septemeber 11th.

There is no excuse for some of the ignorance I see on this site. And you know who you are. How could you not expect America to retaliate after that God awful event? And if we are so wrong, then why did the ENTIRE WORLD get behind us?

To call America terrorists makes you sound like an idiot. I am saying right here and now, I will have NO respect for anyone who has ANY sympothy for our enemys.

They started this, but you can bet God damn well, we will finish it.

i'm not saying it was or wasn't a terrrorist attack, i'm just saying that the government of any country could hide the truth and i agree with the action being taken by the us and in part the uk. i hope bin laden is hung off the empire state building to be honest.

okay, I hear what you are saying, but I think the truth is in this nations best interest, and Bush wouldn't hold information from us.

I disagree that bin Ladin should be hung. I think death is too easy of an out for that twisted "human being".

Did anyone watch this weeks Southpark? They went to Afghanistan and meet Bin Lauden. It was really funny

I didn't see it, but I can imagine it was good.

I like how in the movie, Saddam Huisane was so evil, that he called Satan his *****.

I love that movie, I have it on DVD.
You should see what they do to Bin Lauden! It's hillarious! You should watch, it's on Comedy Central this Saturday at 9pm.

OPPPS, no sorry, this weeks episode has kenny missing, you wont be able to see the Bin Lauden one untill it repeats after this season

Damnit Tex, don't get my hopes up like that!

I'll get your hopes up alright, then when you least expect it, I'll knock you down so hard, I'll be able to paint you black with the blood of your suprise untill you scream for the gates of hell to open up and save you

The Rolling Stones "Paint it Black"

Great song

Smashing Pumpkins -"Cash Car Star"
Even better song

Hmm, I think not, my friend.

. I dont think anybody is against the US actions in Afghanistan, I for one aint. But I can only speak for myself.
But I tell you this, I have no respect for people who disrespect those with different views and opinions than their own.
And To the US way is not the way of the world. Innocent do get killed in a war and that is what some people are against.

Now back to my personal views I hope the US and their allies kick ass. We gave a green light for US to retaliate, it is cowardness to back out now.

Another plane crash yesterday in NYC. I hear they've locked down the Pentagon.
When is all this gonna stop?
It all seems like *** for tat.*sigh*

we won't back down, finti.

We did in Iraq.

Yes, but this is a little different.

Yeah, but didnt they threaten to use nuclear weapons in Iraq?

Who, the US? No, we didn't.

bin Ladin now says he has his hands on nuclear weapons, and will use them if we use them.

But I know no one wants that!

Well I don't think anyone wants the world to end.

bin Ladin does.

ToMacco, I know that one of the people you are referring to are me, but I hoped that you wouldn't start harassing people just because they have a different view than you.

i don't support the US actions in Afghanistan, and most of the times I'm disagreeing with the ways of the US government. but I was still hoping that we could discuss this normally, and that we could come along, despite different views on some matters.

it seems to you that I hate americans or something, I don't, I'm just disagreeing with the government. of course I understand your views, and most americans view very well, after 11.september, but am I not allowed to have different views?

think about it, I'm understanding you, but I'm hoping that you will take back the F-word.

It wasn't my intention to harrass you mah.

The terrorists left over 6,000 families without fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, grandfathers, nephews, ext. . .

I don't agree with war, but there is no other choice here. They would (and ARE) trying to destroy the free world. THey have to be stopped now.

ok then, but that wasn't a very nice thing to say

well if it would have brought any results with it, then maybe I would agree with the actions, but I can't find any.

It's not gonna happen overnight. We have a lot of bastards to hunt down.

by Mah

Look who`s talking, just like you will take back yours in the movie section. (Schindler discussion)

Double edged sword there Mah

*tries to hide, but can't*
sorry, sorry, sorry, forgotten about that ( it was f off, not f you, mind.)

I'm sorry for that shouldn't have said that, just got heated up in the discussion.

''I ask you.....No, I beg you to forgive me''

I would, but then again, it's bad to lie

well its just to admit it then and you tell the truth

no, no, no

Taremareby

pfft. So much for my wish to keep these issues seperate.

I hope you weren't aiming anything at me this time, To. Except for pointing out the difference between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, I was pretty much on your side this time.

I do appologize for getting worked up. But it is a sensitive subject to me. The attack on Terrorism is doing the entire world a favor, and it's disturbing to see some people not appreciate that.

I think it's disturbing to see that if this ''war'' lasts as long as bush says, as many civilians will die in this as on 11. of september.

taliban might get defeated, but the terrorists will not, this way.

oh yes they will.

We need to keep this war going untill every terrorist is captured and their means of commiting more crimes against humanity are severed. They are not going to stop, we have to stop them.

*thoughtful silence and tranquillity emitting from lara in a hope that things will calm down shortly**large sigh emitted*

Is anyone else delighted that America is going to cut it's nuclear aresnal? It's great news and something that wouldn't have happened a few months ago. Since all the leaders have started talking, things are happening.

God yes, we need to get rid of them all. If Bin Lauden had a nuke, Manhattan wouldn't exist anymore.

What's his problem, anyway?

That son of a ***** is on the run. They are now releasing pictures of what he would look like if he shaved off his beard.

Yeah, Taliban, you guys are all brave warriors, but now your all running and crying like little pussies.

God Bless the free world.