Is every orc once an Elf?

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ElvesRule24/7
Are every Orc that lives in Middle-Earth at one time Elves?? The orcs in Moria were they Elves at one time also??? Or is it just the Urk-hui and Sauron's orc's that were once elves. Cause is every orc in middle earth was once an elf, than that's a hell of a lot of captured elves.

Thanks ya'll

GABRIEL05
Not every orc was once an elf. In fact I'm assuming all those died a waaay long time ago. Most Orcs are grown like the Uruk Hai were in LOTR. However I can't account for Orcs like Bolg who had a "son".

nephalim27
The orcs are their own race. They are like Men are to Chimpanzees, not knowing proper ancestory, if you get what I mean. The race of Orcs originally came from Elves, but only the original Orcs were once Elves.

Which, may I add, was a looooooong time ago.

Sifer
Melkor twisted and tortured the elves and turned them into Orcs as mockery towards them.

sauron
melkor craeted orcx from elves, as a mockery and once he had quite a few he just mated them, and they mate to make more, not every orc is an ex-elf although they all will have elves way way way way way back in ancestory

Chapel
the question is are they immortal like Elves?

nephalim27
The real question is are Orcs immortal...

sauron
i dont think so, well no or yes

sauron
Little is known for certain of the beginnings of the Orcs, the footsoldiers of the Enemy. It is said that they were in origin corrupted Elves captured by Melkor before the beginning of the First Age. In appearance, Orcs were squat, swarthy creatures. Most of them preferred the darkness, being blinded by the light of the Sun, but the kinds bred later in the Third Age such as the Uruk-hai could endure the daylight.

GABRIEL05
I just realized that peter jackson crafted the Uruk breeding scenes in the building. They never say how they were bred in the books do they?

sauron
orcs and men

Chapel
I remember reading somewhere that Tolkien once wrote that the Orcs were created from Elves and would thus have the same natural lifespan but the twisted & evil way of life they lead would short their life expectancy considerably

GABRIEL05
No, you misunderstood me Sauron. I meant the specific scene with the mud and stuff under Isengaard

Kitoky
Melkor turned a few elves into orcs in mockery and so they mate and this whole breed comes about...Uruks, I'm not sure, one time I thought that Saruman created the Uruks from Orcs I also believed that they were dead orcs who formed into Uruks.

*shrugs* Sauron's got it pretty much down packed

sauron
no gabriel i know what you mean, uruks in the book are orcs and men bred together

BingaBonga
I think that Orcs could live for a long time, but like elves they can die by steal, is that right?

Exa
No, Orcs are not immortal - elves are immortal because they are bound to the earth, and they are immortal as long as the earth lives. They can be parted from it but their spirits always will return to Arda through Mandos' halls; they love earth and earth loves them.
Thats quite different with the Orcs who hate the earth and so are most probably not bound to it anymore, kinda like Men, so that that can die and be parted from the world, but when the world fails, elves will die and men survive, thats the "gift of mortality"...

sauron

Maikahyandowen
Elves turning into orcs..... that's just a disturbing idea. Melkor was pretty twisted for doing it in the first place.

sauron
well nothing evil can crate new life, he needed an army, elves were the only possibility, they are strong, long life spans, agile and do not tire

envision
whos this melkor guy. i havent read into the history of LOTR (yet)

Was he like the sauron of the 1st age?

turin
Kind of. Before the first age one of the valar (most powerful of all the gods, a step up from sauron) named melkor desired to rule all of the earth. So battles raged on against him throughout the first age. At that time Sauron was a servant to melkor.

LegolasIsMyMan
Wow, he was under someone!! Sauron, humm, a servent, hee hee hee hee hee hee hee. sorry that is so funny to me!

Maikahyandowen
he actually used to be good looking too. weird........

Julie
why is that weird?

Maikahyandowen
because he's so twisted and evil. evil people are supposed to be ugly so that it's easier to hate them.

sauron

Maikahyandowen
well.......... ok then. interesting.....

eldarion
quote: "no gabriel i know what you mean, uruks in the book are orcs and men bred together"

But in the movie Saurman says that the uruks are made by breeding goblins and orcs together. But since the books say men and orcs, I'd have to go with that one for sure!

namarie
is awful but is the truth the orc was once an elf

sauron
lol i know orcs so sexy, much improvment on the hideous elves

Ushgarak
I don't remember that, Half-Orcs are Man and orc, Uruk-Hai were never that.

Maikahyandowen
i've got a lovely bunch of coconuts, deedle dee dee dee................

Cowboyography
Uruk-hai were half man half orc in the books as i recall. thats how they were able to keep such a pace in TTT during the daytime!!

Exa
That film turns that round a bit... no Uruk-hai arent basically orcs and men - these were called halforcs wink wink
Uruk-hai were originally NOT an invention of Saruman but an own bigger orc race... sauron already used them far earlier in the third age.

nephalim27
It was implied in the TT by Fangorn that the Uruk-Hai had men-blood (although not necessary half-men.) And that's what I believe. The Histories can say whatever they want, but as they are drafts that are times contradicted, anything in the book itself takes precedence. However, since it's only IMPLIED, then it's a matter of personal opinion IMO. Unless Tolkien addressed it in a letter?

Goblins are Orcs are the same thing. Tolkien changed the name because he didn't want images of what people think "goblins" to be ruining his creations. The Hobbit was later edited, to make sense of it, but the job was done horribly to make it seem that Orcs are a type of Goblin, which is false (addressed by Christopher, I believe.)

Exa
Saruman's Uruks may have man blood but not all in general - they are an own race, as old as all other orc races!

Bloomheadgirl
Melkor destroyed the lamps of the valor with Ungalient!!! (shelobs mum!!!!)

~*Tanya

Exa
You mean Valar and Ungoliant...? Does that explain anything about this topic?

GABRIEL05
goblin=goblin men=men

BingaBonga
hey, hey, evil can be hot. evil face

I guess I need to speed up reading the Silmarillion. I know about Melkor, so he is a god, but is evil right?

Exa
Yes correct
Hes one of the Valar but not counted to them and his name is not used in Middle-earth

Melkor_TheEnemy
After Melkor burnt the trees of the Valar and left for Middle Earth with the Silmarils the Elves began a long a brutal war against him. He took many Elves and threw them into the dark pits of Utumno (sp?) they were tortured in those pits, they went without sunlight and eventually became the Orc race.

Melkor/Morgoth also took several Miar spirits (sp?) and turned them into Balrogs. Gandalf and Saruman are Miar spirits, Istari.

Uruk-Hai as said by Gandalf in FOTR "He is breeding Orcs with Goblin-Men"

Goblin Men? Strange, maybe someone should check the book, they can't be Half-Orcs because they are different altogether...aren't they?

BingaBonga
AHHHH HEY I'M READING THE BOOK DON'T SPOIL IT! mad

Exa

sauron
the whole existence of evil is down to that one out of tune singing voice in the music of the ainur

BingaBonga
*looks at the posts again* okay, now i've read that part... *phew*

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