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I am new here and this may have been answered previously. My question, or more of a discussion maybe, is why didn't QGJ fade away as all "good" Jedi tend to do? Instead he was burned very much like Vader/Anakin in Ep6. Thoughts?

Sorry if this has been answered before.

i dunno to be honest.

that's a problem that no-one can answer for now; but it will be explained in EPII; it's all about:
"When you strick me down, I shall become more powerfull than you can possibly imagen."

So if you get that line, you have the answer; there are a lot that thinks that the prophecy of the Chosen One got something to do with it (and QGJ didn't want to die)

There is also a lot of discussion about Vader; some people, like me, are saying that he DID disappear and that like they said on sw.com it was the armor that got burned (with the evidence that the mask was in the helmet and not on it...)

to be short: no idea!

Same here. We'll just have to wait and see.

Remember- the question at this point is:

"Why DID the Jedi in the OT disappear when killed?"

And meanwhile there is the whole sub-0deabte over whether Vader actually vanished or not. The official site syas yes but a lot of fans say no.

My take:

The vanishing trick- which also makes you a ghost- is something that crops up as a plot point in Episode III (GL's comments point this way) It is NOT a common Jedi ability- Qui-Gon simply dies like any other person, and there is nothing odd about it.

The ONLY Jedi to disappear are the three who do it in the OT, and this is all releated to the Prophecy and maybe the Midi-Chlorians. Anakin DOES disappear inside the suit- his ghost appearance confirms it.

queeq, meanwhile, has a whole different theory which I am sure he won;t mind printing.

The vanishing trick- which also makes you a ghost-

this is not clearly said, that's why there is a confusion about Vader and disappearing

I did say that was my take.

However, I maintain that Vader did not know about either disappearing or ghosts, and hence it is almost certain that the two are releated otherwise they would have to be seperate plot things discovered in Ep. III which is just silly.

I pretty much agree with you. It has to have something to do with the Prophecy.

I agreed long time ago! I know this one is right!

Okay I've changed my mind.

Just a guess:

The dissapearing Jedis are those who WANTS to die and become "one with the Force" (as far as we know: yoda {yes} OB1 {yes} Anakin {maybe but he really WANTS to die, so my vote is for HE vanishes and Luke burns the "shell"})

Remember- it CANNOT be a generally known trick. Vader has no clue what Obi-Wan just did when he vanished. It was nothing he was ever taught; it is not a general Jedi trick.

Shall I tell my version now?

Well, I did say you would...

Okay, the whole ghost thing is caused by the will to die.

Obi-Wan gave up the fight with Vader because he knew he couldn't win against him. He raised his lightsaber in defeat and Vader cut him in half. He knew he was going to die in the duel sooner or later, and decided the make it sooner.

Yoda died in bed as a grumpy old man. He died telling Luke last-minute advice. Yoda had trained Luke and given him the advice and died a peaceful death. He knew he was dying at the age of almost 900.

Anakin died after saving his son from the Emperor. He lost the battle with Luke, but killed the Emperor and saved his son. Then he died in the Light-Side of the Force and Luke burned his suit. I know this because he has a ghost. Anakin knew he was going to die after losing his hand and being shocked by Force lightning.

Qui-Gon died fighting againts Darth Maul. He wasn't ready to die and died while fighting when Maul pulled one of his fancy-pants moves. Then his apprentice killed his killer. Qui-Gon then was burned in a funeral pyre. We'll have to wait and see if he reappears as "one with the force" in Episode II or III. Plus, he didn't know he was going to die. He was fighting and then was stabbed straight through the stomach.

That's my theory of why Qui-Gon Jinn died and didn't become a ghost.

Yeah, thats my theorie too...but:
Actually QGJ dies AFTER his killer is killed, and he KNOWS he will die.... Why he doesn't WANTS, in this short time that he has, be one with the force????
well, I think both theories posted here becomes PART of that secret:

* The Jedi Knight who will die, must WANT die to "dissapear" and becomes one with the force, with that ghost stuff
* AND THIS needs a TECHNIQUE what is NOT PUBLIC KNOWELEDGE among the jedis.

So, It's a SECRET that involves the WILL TO DIE.


I'm a GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, but QGJ didn't want to die, he wanted to train Anakin, so he wasn't willing to die

Ok, first of all, Rex, try not to speak with such certainty when very little solid stuff is known aboiut this.

Secondly, we have no evidence that Obi-Wan could not beat Vader. But time was an issue and he knew that Luke's escape was more important than his own.

Thirdly, again, I point out, if it was as simple as 'wanting or not wanting to die', then Vader WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT THE TRICK WAS!

But he did NOT. and this is the central point of the whole deal. Obi-Wan's disappearance was, at the time, a UNIQUE event! Vader did not have the slightest clue what had happened.

Therefore, it cannot have been something that had happened to any Jedi before, or Vader would have known about it. And not only is it silly to say that Obi-Wan is the first person who 'wanted' to die, it's dramatically limp as well.

GL tells us we will find out more about this in the coming episodes- a plot point for Obi-Wan and Yoda-, and he says it all revolves around the line 'Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine' A line, of course, that Obi-Wan says to demonstrate Vader's ignorance of this trick.

IF you strike me down...

You get the idea.

And yes, I agree with Ush on these points. But not with his theory yet.... I mean, I think it would be more exciting when there has to be some kind of maturity in the Force, some kind of higher status like enlightenment or something. THat one with the Force can only be achieved by very deep commitment (something Yoda and Ben had all the chance for in their exile) or by purging of fire.
Actually, wether this stands depends a little on Anakin disappearing after death or not. My take is: we see three Jedi die in the OT, two disappear, one does not (on screen) and gets burned. QGJ dies and is burned in TPM, so if QGJ reappears in Ep2 or 3 as a ghost it must be something like this.

I'm still hoping that when you see Anakin in ghost (and you know the theory by then) you think:
good! all his bad things are forgiven! He's a Jedi again!

But that's ALREADY the point of that final shot.

Now, for the benefit of others, the website (official bit not infallible) and much of Lucasfilm (likewise) say that Vader DID disappear inside his suit. But we still have no firm evidence one way or another.

Indeed. My problem, if this is indeed correct, is that it's fairly stupid that they didn't show it. In the OT it didn't matter, but since QGJ did NOT disappear and was also burned, it gets weird. If this does prove correct I think a special special edition of ROTJ showing Anakin's disappearance is fairly crucial.

Meanwhile, I think part of the point of Anakin's ghost appearance at the end of ROTJ was to show that he HAD disappeared, after all.

But.... Qui-Gon might be back in EpIII....

That's still not necessarily a problem, remember.

we also have to remember something about qui-gon. he did not follow the jedi code and he is the only jedi we know of who beleives in the "living force." according to sw.com, all the other jedi beleive in the "unifying force," an energy field that a jedi can use. Qui-gon beleived the force was alive (the midi-chlorians), had a will of its own, and a jedi should listen to the will of the force. none of the other jedi doubted that the midi-chlorians EXIST, but supposedly beleive that they are non-conscious entities. if qui-gon reappears in Episode III, i beleive its possible it will not be as a ghost, but as something else, something more... alive. the reality could be that he was wiser than any of the jedi, yoda and ben included.

I'd be interested to see a canonical usage oif terms like 'Living' and 'Unifying' Force, but somehow I doubt it will get bogged down in it all.

Still, you never know.

in episode I, qui-gon makes a couple references to the "living force" to which obi-wan seems to be skeptical, yet respectful. i think "unifying" is a term the website uses to differ between qui-gon's view and that of the other jedi. i agree that it is unlikely that those terms will get any more useage in the EPII or III.

and i think the key point is "if YOU strike me down, i shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine," with the greatest emphasis on YOU.

I do not believe there is any such emphasis; none we are meant to take notice of. After all, you don't need Vader to strike you down in order to disappear.

Meanwhile, we have no evidence that Qui-Gon's use of the term 'Living Force' was something that oither Jedi disagreed about; it might just be a particular use of the Force he was talking about- he was, after all, urging Obi-Wan to concentrate on the here and now.

ok, i was a little vague. think about who dissapeared and who was present on EVERY occasion. then think about who that person is, in a grander scheme of things.