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i have been reading a lot on these forums and i heard that GL said he was going to reveal how obi wan disappeared when vader "killed" him in a new hope and other jedis dont disappear when killed. is he going to reveal this in ep III
he said he would reveal it in EpII and further explain it in EpIII.
(about EpII, IMHO it's Anakin saying "I'll even learn people to stop from dying"
In my opion, it's basically construed by how strong you are in the Force, and if you fulfilled your ultimate purpose in life.
nope, that would imply that it's a common "trick" to perform and by the way Vader acted in ANH, you know it wasn't common to disappear
Yeah, otherwise everyone would be doin it.
"Hey Han, you got shot!"
"Where's my money dammit..."
If it is Anakin that discover's the disappearing, then why would Vader look surprised when Obi-Wan does it?
So I think it will be discovered by someone other than Anakin...
Mace Windu perhaps?
I dunno...if it is Anakin that kills him, which is a big possibility then Anakin would know about the disappearing Jedi trick.
I ment that Anakin actually IS responsible for the others to disappear, he just doesn't know it.
in other words, imho, it's about the prophecy
and with him saying "I'll even learn people to stop from dying", he was right, because he's the chosen one, the ones that teach him and stuff don't die, they become those ghosts
Yup, it absolutely cannot be anything to do with fulfilling your destiny, your purpose, or being prepared to death, which is what a lot of fans all over the neet seem to want to think. This would imply it is simply a matter of doing something right which is NOT so. Disappearing and ghost form are not normal for a Jedi or anyone, it is a specific plot point tied into the Prequel films and therefore almost certainly has something cirectly to do with Anakin/the Prophecy. And indeed, regardless of that, Anakin himself cannot possibly know about it.
I Think Qui Gon will appear at somtime in Episode 3 and explain this to Obi Wan and Yoda.
I dont thnk Anakin knows how to do this, but he does become a ghost. Maybe becuase he was conceived by the force. So when he died he had that ability to become a ghost.
I hope that made sense
I don't think disappearing and being a ghost has much to do with one another. But, i do believe you have to be prepared to disappear, since the only ones who have have had prep time, which doesn't mean everyone can do it. Somebody, and its gotta be Yoda and if not him then Obi-wan, will either find out or learn it from someone or something. I personally think it has been done before (explained below). I somewhat agree that it might have something to do with the prophecy, but in a much more general way. I think Jedi can come back when they have some sort of job to finish. This would explain why none of the current Jedi know how, because there has been peace for a thousand years. So no one has had a reason too. This would account for Yoda possibly knowing how to do it, like maybe one Jedi is allowed to know it and pass it on BUT they are only allowed to pass it on in emergency situations (such as the Jedi Purge). So maybe Yoda knows how and teaches Obi-wan how before they part ways. Of all the theories though, I have a feeling Yoda knows how, or at least where to find out. Although, in the book he did seem surprised to hear Qui-gon's voice, but I don't know if maybe he was surprised Qui-gon had done it or what. The whole thing is very up in the air right now. All my theories involve things from eastern religions and mythology since thats what Jedi are based on, but who knows what Lucas will come up with.
Sorry but GL specifies on the AOTC DVD, and other places, that this is a new thing. It is certain that Yoda had no idea of how that happened.
It is also very likely that disappearing and ghost form are linked because GL said in interview that QGJ not disappearing is all linked into Obi-Wan's "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagaine"- clearly, by any logic, referring to his return in ghost form.
Of course QGJ himself then becomes the complicating factor in that link.
er... same as the previous comment:
if they have to finish a job, than it's still common knowledge which it isn't
and it has certainly not been peace for a thousand years! the last 30 minutes of AOTC is about the Clone Wars!!
and why should it be known to only one? how can Vader do it than if no one thaught it to him?
I think Anakin / Vader not having a father has somthing to do with him being able to dissapear and come back as a ghost.
I bet its because Lucas has no idea what the fuk he is doing, now he is just trying to cover his own ass and cover plot holes!!!
er... no, he knows EXACTLY what he's doing as he said on multiple occasions!
there has been peace up till the clone wars yerssot. I thought that was obvious.
Ush- That's IS interesting, maybe its only if you're struck down by Sith. Weird. But why can Yoda disappear then? He's not struck down by anyone. So sorry, but that doesn't really explain anything.
Well, that will be part of what the plot explains, isn't it? I doubt being killed by Sith has anything to do with it.
in a whole universe, with thousands of species, and you think that they all lived in peace till the clone wars?
I believe what they meant yerssot and I could be wrong is that there hasn't been a galactic conflict in a long time. Like we on earth have wars and shite all the time but we haven't had a WW in a while. I think disappearing jedi has to do with their surrender to the force, in a matter of speaking.
if it's about that surrendering, the main point still stands:
than it has happened before and it will be a common "trick",
but if you see Vader's reacting, you know it's something new
I don't think it's something new, just something not of jedi etiquette to do, or maybe even it's a technique that was almost forgotten and only a few jedi know about it.
On second thought maybe the thing vader did to keep himself alive after getting melted is akin to the disappearing act. Perhaps (and I could be wrong because I haven't seen EpIV in years) Vader was surprised that Obi Wan had the knowledge and power to execute this maneuver. Pure speculation on my part.
no, Vader was surprised that OB1 disappeared, if he was surprised that OB1 had the knowledge, he wouldn't go and check if OB1 was really gone
it's clearly something that's unknown to him and therefor isn't common in the JO
yeah, it is definietly clear Vader was shocked. This is why I think Yoda's the most likely canidate to know how, if it is in fact something old. And Yerssot, what I meant by peace is that there "hasn't been a full scale war since the formation or the Republic" and Ki Adi Mundi points out that the last conflict with the Sith was a thousand years ago "the Sith have been destroyed a millenia". It might be something the Jedi are only allowed to do facing extinction. But, again, that is extreme. This is most certainly a matter Lucas has to clear up.
I don't see why they would have forgotten it. As I say, GL is clear on QGJ's voice in AOTC being the very first inkling that anyone has that it is in someway possible to return after death.
yeah, well, indeed, last sith-involved war they know off was a millenia ago, and the last full-scale war was about the same time
what I said was that in a whole galaxy you can't believe there is peace between every species and on every planet and jedi will die by attacks and such by people who resist them
super shadow GL
No way there has been at least hundreds of wars before the clone wars
ya' think? duh! but we're talking galactic wars. Not little squabbles over boarders, or economics or something like that. We mean severe galaxy wide war. Since it is clear that no matter the cause, this is not an everyday thing for Jedi or they'd all know how to do it. It most likely has something to do with a major shift in the galaxy, like the Sith siezing power. Yoda is the most likely canidate to know how do to his age. I don't think its a forgotten thing, but most likely something held for maybe only a jedi or two, and only high ranking masters at that. As far as martial arts goes, there's supposedly a move that can kill somebody in one touch, its speculation, but the tales say that only two people are allowed to know it, a master and an apprentice. Now, since Lucas has said much of his influence is from Eastern Philosophy, its possible that a similar scenario will be used for the disappearing jedi thing. Its probably a very dangerous power that they don't want just anyone knowing how to do. So only a couple know of it. Sort of a break in case of emergency situation.
and why? what's the use of that?
Yoda can do it, OB1, Anakin and at this point QGJ only with his voice
That fails to explain how Anakin does it also, Mephisto, despite not knowing of it. It HAS to be something do with him.
super shadow GL
yeah something whit anakin.because before anakin they wore no faiding jedi ya know!!
then why is he shocked? he's clearly a little perplexed by Obi-wan's disappearing. And Obi-wan's dialogue to Vader before doing it implies Vader doesn't know, Kenobi sounds like hes threatening him with the unknown. i'm not saying my explanation makes sense either. so far, no ones really does. everything we've come up with conflicts some where else. we don't really know anything for sure other than Obi and Yoda for sure know. Somehow Anakin figures it out. And apparently Qui-gon can half do it.
He's shocked because he does not know it is possible of course, Mephisto. At no point was anyone denying this.
But the fact that he does not know what it is and yet DOES it indicates that it is something that is not just taught as a powerful technique, but is rather beyond that and most likely to do with him and the Prophecy and so on.
well, if every theory has conflicts, can you tell me what the conflicts are with the theory of the Prophecy?
The problem is that Vader acts surprised when Obi Wan disappears, then ends up doing it himself after his redemption at the end of RoTJ. To me, that in itself suggests that it is a natural occourance that revolves around Anakin/the prophecy. My guess is that if you were instrumental in the fullfillment of the prophecy you become a Jedi Spirit. Qui-Gon found him/brought him to the Jedi, Obi-Wan trained him, Yoda granted Obi-Wan permission to train him to become a Jedi, and of course...Anakin destroyed the Sith to bring balance to the force.
if you guys listen to the AOTC commentary on the dvd lucas explains some of it. also in an interview he says that its a trick yoda learns and teaches to obi-wan and anakin. yeah i know that may contradict the whole suprised vader thing but aren't the prequels full of discrepancies.
and where did you read it?
Sorry about the old quote.
I was referring to people strong within the Force, not ordinary beings.
That is in a VERY old interview, before he did the Prequels, when he said that was one thing we would never learn about.
Clearly he changed his mind since then.
AS somone said a lot of the Jedi Mythos is based on Eastern phylosohy and such.
Its a mixtuer of things. If you think about it. It seem more likely that it has to do with
1. Being prepared for death
2. Giving yourself over to a transformation
Rather than actual death.
I think those strong in the force can almost cheat death by allowing there physical body to be left behind or destroyed while there life force lives on in the same existance as the rest of us. Unlike normal peopl who die.
Physics 101. Energy can not be destroyed. It only changes form. I thikn there is an act of will involved. Yoda likely knows about it already but its not something you can teach unless you have done it already. Its kind of a zen/chan thing. The dao cannot be described, when you describe the dao it is no longer what you described.
I also think that speaking to people like yoda, from the other side of death(QGJ) is not the same. Unless Quaigon actually appears before someone.
Anyway. I think I have it right. Its about being prepared for death then letting go of this physical form of life.
Yes he could also sa that there is no gravity and that fire does not burn and that up is actually down.
The whole allure of sci fi is often that its fringes on what we know to be real.
And yes I could be totally wrong.
But consider some of what we have seen GL base the Jedi on. The meditations. The letting go of desire, desire leads to sorrow sorrow leads to anger anger leads to the dark side.
Thats all Buddhist stuff. Most people in search of some semblance of balance(nirvana) if you will, don't or wont know they have achieved it until they are there already. To do that yo have to stop trying so hard.
Vader/Anakin is still angry, he's angry his whole life until the end when the resolves that anger and is able to consciously let go. Let go of his anger and his physical form. Giving it over to the force. Thats also why he appear as an elder Anakin at the end not as Vader. His pure essence is revealed without the darkness. I dont think Sith are capable of it at all.
Then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.
you do know that with agreeing that you can't base yourself on reality, that your entire first part is pretty much useless, right?
yet again, you make it sound like it's pretty normal they can do it, and it CLEARLY is not!
Do you Write? Do you even read stories?
Take a look at almost any sci fi out there. They still use laws we as readers are familiar with. That way its not so far out that no one can relate to.
Did you even read my post or do just want to be evasive and contrary?
The sudgestions are already present.
Fact: Much of what GL uses to base the Jedi order on is eastern phylosophy.
Yes GL could go completely against what I stated earlier. It is just a theory but a sound one based on what we have observed of the Jedi and the nature of the force.
apperently you are not up to things, cause GL can overrule EVERY SINGLE BIT of physics and commen sense if that pleases him!
don't go on assuming you know things if they are not backed up by the movies themselves!
and ffs, your theory is NOT sound! it's as said totally useless!
"GL can overrule EVERY SINGLE BIT of physics and commen sense if that pleases him!"
Didn't I just say that too? Yes he can. You just like to argue don't you.
This discussion is over. Its like argueing with a 12 year old just going in circles.
ah, you know yourself well I see
You theory is not sound. 'Prepare for death' does not work. As already stated many times, it is nothoing so simple as just something one achieves- it is a plot point SPECIFICALLY tied to the events of the films. If it was as simple as you say it would have happened before. And to say that GL based much of his stuff on Eastern Philosophy- well, we've had to explain several times why Yin-Yang does not apply to SW so that is not really much of an indicator.
I actually like this theory. And although I can't seem to recall where, I've heard about the energy bit of it before from a reliable source.
I agree with you because remember after Vader and Obi-Wan had their last showdown in Episode 4. Vader walked around looking for Obi-Wan.
So he couldn't of known that Obi-Wan gave himself to the force as did Yoda in Episoded 6.
I think you forgot that Vader was struck down by a sith Darth Sidious aka Emporer Palpatine. But Yoda was not so that still doesn;t make sense.
JE, I agree with you, I've had some experience with trances and out of body stuff from some severe injuries I've had. still don't believe in any occult crap, just that there is a soul.
This is exactly what I was trying to say in my last post about Obi Wan and Yoda giving themselves over to the force when it was there time to die.
Except that as repeatedly pointed out, that is nonsense. It is nothing- absolutely nothing- to do with being prepared for death or anything remotely like that.
Like we keep saying, it is a plot point connected to the story, not simply a technique that some do and some do not! Some preperation may be needed for it to wortk but that is a whole different thing.
I think that QGJ will come back in episode three and tell yoda and the council of the propeacy
Truly i hoe that it is all connected to the propeacy becuase that means that anakins destiny was turnig to the dark side and fuffilling the propheacy
have you thought that maybe it nothing to do with the person who becomes the ghost but the person seeing the ghost?
Lukes the only person to see/hear them in the filsm & Yoda only faintly hears QGJ's voice so maybe only those strongest in the force can hear/see them?
Vader might actually have dissapeared at the end of ROTJ, as his face is not seen on the funeral pyre. ObiWan and Yodas clothes don't dissapear so why sould VVaders armour/suit dissapear? (Vader wanted his helmet removed, but luke put it back on him when he was being burned, so Vader probably did dissapear, but left his vader costume behind)
wait, wait, an official source, Rick Mccallum I think, said that there will be no ghosts in episode III
I beleive RM has said before that QGJ will NOT appear as a ghost in EIII
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