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Just watched the "Choices" trailer again. It struck me that this IS an EPISODE II trailer. so as far as Episode II is concerned, how does
1. "how will you know when you've gone too far?" apply to mace windu? and
2. "what are the consequences of failure?" apply to obi-wan?

based on what we know of the events in episode II, those seem more like they would pertain to episode III. speculate.

Now, the Windu line is by far the most interesting and has caused a lot of discussion, and has very much boosted the 'Windu is a traitor' brigade.

I still doubt he is, though. I think this may refer to some plan the Jedi are working on, From some of what we understand, the Jedi are looking at options like Cloning to help them keep order. As we can assume that the events we see here will eventually lead to their destruction, perhaps the idea is that a plan- that WIndu helped come up with- was too far. Whatever, Windu seems to look EXTREMELY thoughtful in just about every shot we have seen.

As ffor Obi-Wan's line... I get the idea that Obi-Wan is a man who always pushes himself to the limit. He really, REALLY want sot get things right. His teaching of Anakin is a perfect example- the dying promise to his Master, to take on a great task which he does not appear to have been ready for... so what are the consequences when he tires to bite off more than he can chew? Again, when it comes to Anakin, it's the destruction of the Jedi we are heading towards here.

i agree with you 110 percent on both of those issues. it just seems that from what we know of Episode II, neither of those issues will really have CONSEQUENCES in Episode II. The consequences seem to be saved for Episode III.

I beleive Mace will have ALOT to do with approving the clone army to "save" the republic. Although I beleive its possible it COULD POSSIBLY refer to his belief that anakin IS the chosen one, and sending Anakin off on his own when hes not ready, against obi-wans wishes. But it probably just refers to Mace's full support for the clones' use. Although, when you think about it, Sidious already had the clones ready. From what we know, Mace doesnt really seem to be the one that goes "too far." I will pig-headedly argue with anyone until the bitter end that Mace is a traitor, but I think more is involved than meets the eye right now. What does Mace go "too far" in. Will it be in Episode II, or did Lucasfilm just create that teaser to look cool, and none of it will really happen until Episode III?

Which brings me to Obi-wan's statement. I think it will have alot to do with Anakins statement from the trailer about Obi-wan holding him back. Will we see any REAL consequences of Anakins failure in Episode II? I doubt it. GL has repeatedly said Anakin will be mostly good at the end of AOTC. Then again, would GL lie to us in order to surprise us? Right now, AOTC seems to end too happy. Sure, we have Yodas statement that the Clone Wars have begun, and the Conversation b/w Sidious and Dooku, but WHAT IF GL surprises us BIGTIME. What if Sidious turns Anakin in Episode II!!!! While I dont beleive this myself, I am curious as to it as a possiblitiy. If we remember, Luke was first offered a taste of the dark side by Vader in the second star wars movie. What if something comparable happens in this one. And AOTC ends with us NOT KNOWING anakins choice. It is something to ponder.

"Although I beleive its possible it COULD POSSIBLY refer to his belief that anakin IS the chosen one"


"No; he will not be trained, he is too old!"
"You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force, ... you belive it's this ... ... ... boy?"

That are the one that pops in my mind this second, but I think Mace is NOT convinced that Anakin is the chosen one (I refer to the second phrase, he uses a tone that doesn't sound that he believes QGJ)

Actually, what I got from Windu's tone was that he was an open-minded person. Even as he says 'I do not think the Sith could have returned without us knowing', he doesn't sound 100% sure, and looks at Yoda in a 'COULD they have returned?' way- as opposed to Mundi;s complete disbelief.

He is surprised to hear QGJ thinking that Anakin is the Chosen One. Yet he still agrees to the testing. Yoda says at the end of the film 'Thje Chosen One the boy may be...' suggesting that at least some of the Council is willing to entertain the possibility, and I would not be surprised if Windu is one of them. Though obviously none of them share QGJ's absolute faith.

Meanwhile, areas like 'what exactly is going on with the clones' and 'what exactly is the end of the film' are areas that the scriptment was a little fuzzy on, so maybe there is more than what we have here.

i think it would be really cool if GL surprised us somehow at the end of Episode II. ESB ended on a bittersweet note. The second part of an Epic trilogy is always supposed to end that way. as it stands right now, AOTC ends with the Jedi defeating the droid army-with the clones help. Hooray! It just seems like another Episode I ending to me. There HAS to be a cliffhanger of some kind leading us DYING to see what happens to a character in Episode III.

The reason I think Mace might actually beleive anakin is the chosen one is because He sends Anakin off to protect padme alone against Obi-wans wishes. Obi-wan talks about how he has all these doubts about anakin, while Mace is just like, have faith, hell be fine. So it seems Mace may be a little TOO openminded. If events in EP II cause anakin to turn, because Mace sent him off when he wasnt ready, that could be considered going too far. maybe?

By the way, were 2 posts away from 20,000!!!!

It it' hard for me to get a grasp on Mace..on one hand he seems like he is almost a disbeliever or blind to what's in front of his face..and then it's like he's helping out destiny by having Anakin guard Padme. I don't know whether it's his nonchalant attitude to Anakin's more rebellious part of his personality or it he's trying to get things set in motion. At this point it doesn't seem like he's consistant..which makes me think that there's a big story behind Mace Windu..

Obi-Wan on the other hand..is consistant...He's a mother hen.

well, that OB1 is female is no surprise

It could well be that Mace gave Anakin and OB1 the mission because of their history with Amidala...

And Anakin saying that he should be the best Jedi ever, could mean that PERHAPS someone said (Mace?) that he was just another jedi (far fatched but hey, don't care)

Mace IS the first Jedi GL ever thought up. He is NOT a villian. And I dont think the first Jedi Lucas thought up would be supid or blind either.

that has nothing to do with it! First or last, it's a name

You obviously don't know much about the creative porcess, yerss... it really does make it less likely that Windu is a villain.

that's because I'm not creative...

but yeah, I'm sure that he isn't a villain

I didn't even know there was debate over Mace Windu's integrity.

Just because GL said that SOMEONE on the GC knows that the Sith are rising,
I'm still not sure why everyone thinks there is a traitor...

...because it more "romantic" to have a traitor......it's intruguing...daring....dashing....etc

and everyone knows GL isn't good in bringing romance

Do they?

GL has been open that hes glad he had hales' help with the script because the romantic scenes were too dificult for him.

there you go Ush

That's just all part of him not liking writing in general, I would have thought.

and that's why he said he needed a co-writer for the romance scenes...

Blimey, he needs them for more than that.

Some people are good at writing some are not...but GL sure can direct....as I believe has been said before.

While that is true, and whoile he ended up doing a lot of direction work on the other films anyway, ESB really did beneift from having a seperate director with good spins on stuff.

Variety is usually good....but don't forget that Star Wars was Gl's brainchild first. That's gotta count for something.

the best star wars movie is the one where GL played the smallest role.

Which one was that?