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This isn't cannon but it show what the story was when ROTJ was written.


51 EXT DAGOBAH SWAMP - X-WING 51

Luke wanders back to where his ship is sitting. Artoo beeps a
greeting, but is ignored by his depressed master. Luke kneels
down, begins to help Artoo with the ship, then stops and shakes
his head dejectedly.

LUKE
I can't do it, Artoo. I can't go on alone.

BEN (OS)
Yoda will always be with you.

Luke looks up to see the shimmering image of BEN KENOBI.

LUKE
Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me?

The ghost of Ben Kenobi approaches him through the swamp.

LUKE
You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my
father.

BEN
You father was seduced by the dark side of
the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker
and became Darth Vader. When that happened,
the good man who was your father was
destroyed. So what I have told you was
true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE (turning away, derisive)
A certain point of view!

BEN
Luke, you're going to find that many of the
truths we cling to depend greatly on our own
point of view.

Luke is unresponsive. Ben studies him in silence for a moment.

BEN
I don't blame you for being angry. If I was
wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't
have been for the first time. You see, what
happened to your father was my fault.

Ben pauses sadly.

BEN
Anakin was a good friend.

Luke turns with interest at this. As Ben speaks, Luke settles on
a stump, mesmerized. Artoo comes over to offer his comforting
presence.

BEN
When I first knew him, your father was
already a great pilot. But I was amazed how
strongly the Force was with him. I took it
upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I
thought that I could instruct him just as
well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has
had terrible consequences for the galaxy.

Luke is entranced.

LUKE
There's still good in him.

BEN
I also thought he could be turned back to the
good side. It couldn't be done. He is more
machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

LUKE
I can't do it, Ben.

BEN
You cannot escape your destiny.

LUKE
I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.

BEN
Vader humbled you when first you met him,
Luke...but that experience was part of your
training. It taught you, among other things,
the value of patience. Had you not been so
impatient to defeat Vader then, you could
have finished your training here with Yoda.
You would have been prepared.

LUKE
But I had to help my friends.

BEN (grinning at Luke's indignation)
And did you help them? It was they who had to
save you. You achieved little by rushing back
prematurely, I fear.

LUKE (with sadness)
I found out Darth Vader was my father.

BEN
To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and
then go beyond the dark side - the side your
father couldn't get past. Impatience is
the easiest door - for you, like your father.
Only, your father was seduced by what he
found on the other side of the door, and you
have held firm. You're no longer so reckless
now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And
now, you must face Darth Vader again!

LUKE
I can't kill my own father.

BEN
Then the Emperor has already won. You were
our only hope.

LUKE
Yoda spoke of another.

BEN
The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

LUKE
But I have no sister.

BEN
Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor,
you were hidden from your father when you
were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if
Anakin were to have any offspring, they would
be a threat to him. That is the reason why
your sister remains safely anonymous.

LUKE
Leia! Leia's my sister.

BEN
Your insight serves you well. Bury your
feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit.
But they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Luke looks into the distance, trying to comprehend all this.

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your
mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew
he would find out eventually, but we wanted
to keep you both as safe as possible, for as
long as possible. So I took you to live with
my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother
took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator
Organa, on Alderaan.

Luke turns, and settles near Ben to hear the tale.

BEN (attempting to give solace with his words)
The Organa household was high-born and
politically quite powerful in that system.
Leia became a princess by virtue of
lineage... no one knew she'd been adopted, of
course. But it was a title without real
power, since Alderaan had long been a
democracy. Even so, the family continued to
be politically powerful, and Leia, following
in her foster father's path, became a senator
as well. That's not all she became, of
course... she became the leader of her cell
in the Alliance against the corrupt Empire.
And because she had diplomatic immunity, she
was a vital link for getting information to
the Rebel cause. That's what she was doing
when her path crossed yours... for her foster
parents had always told her to contact me on
Tatooine, if her troubles became desperate.

Luke is overwhelmed by the truth, and is suddenly protective of
his sister.

LUKE
But you can't let her get involved now, Ben.
Vader will destroy her.

BEN
She hasn't been trained in the ways of the
Jedi the way you have, Luke ... but the Force
is strong with her, as it is with all of your
family. There is no avoiding the battle. You
must face and destroy Vader

How do I underline parts of it?

begin with and end with

interesting, indeed, but certain parts seem to conflict with cannon. we know now owen and ben are not brothers. and according to what was said in ANH, anakin leaves padme on tatooine to follow obiwan on a damn fool idealistic crusade. the script here makes it seem like obiwan stayed with padme, and anakin left on his own. i guess this could be rationalized if at the beginning of EPIII, Obi-wan comes and gets Anakin to take him on the crusade, while Padme leaves to do her thing. Somewhere along the line, Padme and Anakin meet again, and she gets pregnant. Then Anakin leaves AGAIN, against obi-wans wishes, acting "impatiently," while Obiwan stays with Padme. Obiwan tries to turn Luke back to the "good side." He fails. Padme tells Obiwan shes pregnant, and the rest is history. That seems WAY too complicated to me. Either Padme and Anakin separate from eachother twice in Episode III, or Lucas has changed his mind since he wrote the script for ROTJ.

sorry, I explained bold to you

and big, he said that he knows that it's not cannon

no sh!t sherlock. i just said it seemed to disagree with cannon and pointed out where.

no no yerssot, not sherlock!

and ofcourse! that's why the novalization of ROTJ dropped out of the cannon list!

Where'd you get that idea. All OB1 says that Owen felt ANAKIN should have stayed on Tatooine and not follow old OB1 on some damn fool idealistic crusade... You got things wrong here.

we also have the discussion in the lars home where owen says he doesnt want luke to LEAVE like his father did, following obi-wan on a crusade. The implication is that Anakin lived there for some time with Owen. He is just there VERY breifly in AOTC. Currently it is beleived that after Episode II, anakin leaves the jedi order and he and padme live on tatooine with the lars family. For the statements in ANH to make sense, at the beginning of Episode III, Obiwan must come to Anakin asking for help. That's why in ANH, Owen didn't want luke going after Ben. He didn't want him to follow in his father's footsteps. Considering, we know that GL has shot all the film hes going to shoot of Tatooine for Episode III, we know the movie doesnt spend very much time there. It would make the most sense for Tatooine to play a very small role at the beginning of Episode III.

THere's an implication, but I don't think that counts anymore. It's clear from what we know about AOTC that Anakin just returns to Tatooine to see his mom. Then again, this particular talk may even take place in EpIII, who knows. But I doubt Anakin will actually live on Tatooine for a while.

And also, it doesn't say a thing about OB1 and Padme being on Tatooine together. That was my point.

That was my point, too actually. In light of what we know about EPIII, the ROTJ script would require them to be on tatooine together. Hence, I came up with the theory that Obiwan came to tatooine to get Anakins help, leaving Padme on Tatooine, or maybe she would go elsewhere at that time. Either way, thats why i came up with the idea, that in order for the ROTJ script thing to be correct, Anakin and Padme would have to meet later on, where Anakin could run off against Obiwans wishes, leaving Obiwan with Padme

the script is not cannon, come on, it dropped off!

We already KNOW that Anakin and Padme leave Tatooine together to "rescue" OB1. (Remember the "good job" line from OB1 in the trailer) So that theory's out the window.

if you remember, obiwan told luke owen was afraid he would go WITH obiwan on some damn fool idealistic crusade the way HIS FATHER did. In AOTC, Anakin does NOT go with obiwan on an idealistic crusade. Aside from the fact that the war, and hence the idealistic crusade, hadnt started yet, Anakin is on Tatooine a short time, and leaves to RESCUE obiwan. Against his will. Padme makes him go. Owen was afraid for Luke because he was idealistic like his father. In AOTC, Anakin is NOT idealistic, full of energy, ready to go fight some war. That is saved for a later time. After living on Tatooine for the two years b/w EPII and EPIII, owen will have a longer time to get to know anakin, and anakin will have time to more or less get bored. hence, he would be eager to run off with obiwan on an idealistic crusade.

But Anakin and Padme marry at the end of AOTC. I doubt they'll pick a place like Tatooine to live if they can be on Naboo.

Theyve shot footage of anakin and padme together in Tunisia already for EPIII, so they wont all have to go back there again in a couple years, saving money for the production. The idea is that Anakin leaves the order to be with padme, and padme steps out of politics, so they can be together. what better place to stay out of the way than the outer rim planet where anakins family is.

I know that. There's still no evidence that he has to stay on Tatooine for a longer time. THat line from ANH could be interpreted in any way GL sees fit.

true. but thats the most obvious interpretation, and the only one that i see as working for having anakin and padme on tatooine together. we know they leave eachother fairly early on in the movie

What movie? EpIII?????? We know (!) that??????? How?

Gee ...you sound as confused as I am!

Good. That means I'm not going crazy.

Nope...we're in this maze of fog together.....thanks to certain people

Thanks, bigsef.

they have COMPLETED all the footage for Episode III that take place on Tatooine. Anakin and Padme are OBVIOUSLY not together at the end of the movie, or the middle. There would be no way for him NOT to know that she was pregnant if they were together for any time other than the beginning of the movie. use logic.

Why can't we just chuck logic out ?????

because then you cant accurately predict what will happen. its hard enough WITH logic. Theres still so much we dont know and wont know until some stupid bastard leakes info during the EPIII production.

Are you waiting for such news or dreading it?

And most of the predictions are far from accurate with or without logic.

I have posted my reply in its own thread, called "my gripe with george lucas" so this discussion can continue without interference

glad to hear it....