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Julie asked me a good question in another thread, and after I replied, I realized my answer is probably a controversial topic that deserves its own thread. I had posted one of my many "off the wall" theories and Julie asked me if i was waiting to hear the news that my theories were correct, or was i dreading it. Here is my reply, and my gripe with George Lucas.

im waiting for a large part of it. things like the twins not being born and padme not dying i wholeheartedly expect we will find out in a couple years. im dreading other things, like the actual movies themselves.

i dont think any of the PT movies will capture the "sprit" of the OT. Theres no group of friends that we know and love going off in adventures together the way it was in the OT. GL is giving each movie a different feel (EPI has a kiddie feel b/c anakin is young, EPII has a romantic tone b/c anakin is in love, and EPIII will have a dark tone b/c Anakin turns to the dark side) and i feel that is a gargantuan mistake on his part.

The OT movies all kind of flowed together. The characters were the same, the adventures were similar. han and leia were always having an adventure on the falcon. luke was always going off on his own adventure. in a way, the droids were the centerpiece of the movies and tied the films together. it was great movie making. each PT movie is different, and GL only puts the droids in for the sake of putting them in. There were real relationships in the movies, even between the characters and the droids. In TPM, and probably in AOTC, too, no one gives a flip about the droids. Theyre more or less just there so that George Lucas can slap a star wars sticker on the title and make us beleive its the same star wars we grew up with.

But its not the same thing. Its something.... something cheaper. Something less about the story and more about making money and GL doing something because he said hed do it 20 years ago. So when you ask whether i am waiting or dreading, its mostly dreading. These movies are not what they should have been. Even though I havent seen EPII or III, i can say this, and i know this. Ive read the plot summarys, I've seen the story boards, ive seen the trailers. Its all CG sets and CG characters and CG this and CG that. Its that simple. GL didnt put his heart in them. Just his head. That is why I dread.

And the worst part of it all is that I can't do anything about it. As much as we all speculate about what we would like to see, there's nothing we can do about it. GL is going to rape a story has become a popular modern myth, something that is very much part of our culture, and honestly, something that in many ways is "important" to alot of people.

I don't ask that GL make a movie that's exactly what I want to see, because we all want something different. But I think alot of us want to see the same thing. We want to see the magic again.

Yeah, your right. He knew the OT generation would go see it, just becasue it was Star Wars. He had to sell it to the new generation.

Your not going to get any other support, other than from me. I've said things like this in the past, and the only response I get is "If you don't like it, then don't go see it".

I think a lot of people are afraid to admit that The Phantom Menace wasn't very good.

I'm hoping EpII has more of a SW feel to it then EpI had. I get the SW feeling from the Ep II trailers I've seen, so I have some hope

heck, don't care,
ok, TPM had a different ring then the others...
BUT, the reason why he uses CG is that we aren't stuck anymore in Tatooine, Hoth OR Endor, those vieuws are easily created!
We are now on Coruscant, Naboo and Otah Gunga, those places aren't easy to built so they use CG.

And it's a story about Anakin, you haven't seen him much in TPM, but that will change in AOTC, and he will get a bigger part in EpIII, so you will go with him just like Luke in OT

No. People are afraid to admit they like it because it's a kids film.

Bigsef2 if you want to see movies with the "spirit"of the OT then go and watch the OT. These are different movies! Different characters, different events and a different spirit and feel to them.

but it's still SW!

Yes, it is.

Hmm. I don't like the idea that GL only does these things to make money. If that were true it would be absurdly populist; no Jar-Jar, a hundred Dark Jedi in each story and Chewbacca and Boba Fett in from episode I onwards.

But GL is anything BUT populist. He really, REALLY cares for his story and will not be swayed by what people want. That has, if anything, cost him money.

TPM didn't cost a lot for him, he IS rich.

And heck, admit there are a lot of SW things here so certain people could think that GL does it for the money

I have no doubt Lucas wants to make the movies. But money is a HUGE part of his motivation. He will probably make a billion dollars from the new trillogy with the movie, toys, and pepsi cans with the Star Wars logo.

I also agree that the new trillogy is seperate three movies. But then why does he say it's one big story? I just think he went to far in TPM, and he knows it. he's just making up excuses, afterward.

I'll still go see II, and I'll probalby like it. I'm pretty sure that Episode II is going to make Episode I better.

i didnt say it was JUST for the money. and GLs wealth aside, rich people always want more money. Looking at the clothes GL wears, and the house he lives in (as ive seen in documentarys) GL seems fairly humble about his wealth. That being said, hes making a TON of money off these movies, and would have reguardless. My point is that GL seems to be doing it mostly out of obligation. He doesnt seem even remotely enthused in ANY of the documentaries ive seen. granted, GL is a fairly reserved person, but ive seen older documentarys of when he was making the OT. and GL DID seem enthused then. Hes taken on too much responsiblity doing EVERYTHING in these movies. It is now the creative energies of one man, as opposed to many different people, therefore it is simply not as good. GL is making these movies the way he wants them. That means dumb stuff like a pod race that takes up over a tenth of the movies time. I dont care if anyone likes the pod race. It is fairly interesting, but it comepletely detracts from the flow and purpose of the movie. When its over, youre thinking, why did i watch this again, why is anakin in the race? oh yeah, theyre stranded, they need to get home, so they can report to the senate about the trade federation blockade. good film making says anything that detracts from the story, and interferes with the flow of the movie, must be removed. If anyone else was directing the movie, the pod race would not have been so long, and possibly removed entirely. Thats just one example. These movies are inferior to the OT in so many ways. Anyone who disagrees is simply an airhead or doesnt know anything about quality film. I didnt wait 20 years to receive crap. it may be wraped in a nice, colorful CG package, but its still crap.

then don't watch it!
He tries to make a new trilogie, and you aren't glad with it???

yess, you obviously havent read the other posts here which said how alot of idiots would say what you just said. you can say if you dont like it, dont have anything to do with it about anything. its a weak argument. the movies have some redeeming value. whether we like it or not, it is star wars. but people like you irritate me. GL could give you sh!t on a stick and youd be happy and argue forever that it was good

well, bigsef2, I didn't mean that anyone who said "Don't go see it" was an idiot. Although, yerssot is one (j/k yerss )

Lucas knew he could go sideways with the new trillogy, and that fans would follow no matter what.

I don't think The Phantom Menace was BAD, but it wasn't good as an individual movie, as the other three were. Like I said earlier, I think II will make I better.

hey, I AM an idiot!
what seriously,
if I hear that GL doesn't work for it and is only doing it for the money, THAT is irritating me
(where are the series huh???)

who said GL was ONLY doing it for the money? i just ask for one name

To said that money was a big thing...



and besides, not putting effort in it? you want that he has another heart-attack perhaps???

I said that money was a large part of it, not the ONLY part. I never said his heart wasn't in it. I said before, he WANTS to make those movies, but money is a large part of it.

I don't think he's bad person because of it, a man has to make a living. . . I just think he should have made Episode I more like IV, V, and VI.

But ONCE AGAIN, I think II will make I more likable.

Hmm. I am pretty darn sure that GL REALLY cares about this, you know. You just have toi look at the effort he is putting in. Believe me, you have to really care about these things to want to put effort into ANYTHING creative.

whether he cares or not is irrelevant. From a critical standpoint, TPM is not as good as ANY of the previous SW movies. theres no nebating that. GL has lost his touch. He has changed since he produced the OT. He is directing all three movies. He himself admits that he sucks at directing, and writing for that matter. But hes doing it anyway on these movies. Whether its because he "cares" or not, the point is that the PT movies are not, and will never hold up to the high caliber set by his previous efforts.

There certainly IS debating that. I'm sorry, but I think TPM is better than ROTJ, and I am by NO means alone in that. You should be careful about making such broad statements.

And GL has never admitted to being bad at direction. Only writing.

You are absolutly right Ush!!!!

RotJ was for me a typical '80s movie...
And for the writing he has others helping him!

Wow - this thread came from nowhere!!!



I just read Bigsef2's opening gambit and - before I read any further - I want to say how completely his view represents my own. It's sad to think that an entire generation of loyal Star Wars fans are being disappointed after so long waiting simply because they're not seen as the demographic with the highest order of disposable income.



Lucas - you can't take it with you, you know... and now you're risking leaving nothing of value behind as well... what a shame...

TPM is just the beginning of a 12 hours movie, so it's normal that the beginning is a bit different...

DY, that final comment of yours is exeedingly unobservent. GL is NOT behaving like a man obsessed by money., Not by a long shot.

Plenty of us think he is leaving behind a great legacy indeed, INCLUDING the new movies and TPM.

Ush, you have remarkably bold and unflexible opinions about everything. These guys (and myself) are saying that Lucas IS influcenced by money. It is our opinion, and just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean your ALWAYS right about EVERYTHING.

Plenty of us agree that Lucas knows he's going to make a truckload of money from the new films. And that seemed to effect how Episode I turned out. He wanted to sell the new ships, and the new toys, so he concentrated on that more than a compelling story. In IV-VI, he used effects as a tool to tell the story. In I, he used effects, then squeeqed in a story.

In his intereviews, all he talked about was setting the stage in special effects and breaking the barrier. He didn't care about all of that in the orignials.

ok; he knows that he is going to make money, SO??? he made SW!


and he said already that he had to make the OT first because the fx weren't that good in 1977 (heck, they had to improve a lot!) and now the fx aren't bad, they are very good, so now as he said before, can he make the PT

That doesn't make any sense. If that were true, wouldn't he make part I FIRST? Then as the story moved on, the technology would get better, as well as the special effects?

You gotta stop beleiving everything your told by Lucas, yers. You're more intelegent than that. I can't beleive you can't see past that.

heck, how would he make a whole planet like Naboo?
like the shot you see when Anakin and Padma arrive at Naboo

Come on yerssot.

If you looked at something that was green, and Lucas told you it was blue, would you beleive him?

Lucas made IV because it through us into the middle of the story. I don't doubt he had a vague idea of what happens in I-III. But you think he had all three movies perfectly mapped out?

Besides, why couldn't he acheive a task like making Naboo. He made an entire mechanical planet, the Death Star.

you're telling ush that he has to respect other opinions, but now you're bashing on the ones that believe GL makes movies to make movies, not sell toys.

why are you so certain that GL are making the prequels just around the goal of earning money? have you had a chat with him and he revealed the secret to you? is it impossible for you to think that he just wants to continue his beloved project?
why are you so firmly trashing other possibilities??

djee To!!

A lot of the DS is just matepainting!
And with the new movies, they had to interact with the background

I don't know GL true motivations for making the movies, and frankly, no one other than him does. I will not debate that issue.

However, I am disappointed that GL is still directing the other PT. I would prefer that he spent all his time perfecting the story and leave the technical stuff to others. If there is a poorly told story, the movie will soon be forgotten. Remember Independence Day? Me neither.

Come George, please give one interview where you talk about putting your heart and soul into the plot and characters and not about how to make a more realistic Jar-Jar.

yeah! we need a more realistic Yoda!

mah, I never said he made these movies JUST to make money. But I think that is a large part of it. And, that is my opinion, and I respect anyone who disagree's with me.

I'm saying that Lucas was more interested in making special effects, rather than making a good movie. If you watch the DVD, he basically says it. "Jar Jar is the key to making this whole thing work". Well, Jar Jar is a rather insignificant character, in the grand scheme of things.

He wanted to set the tone for special effect movies. And he most likely acheived this. But he failed to present an interesting plot, in the meantime.

The Phantom Menace is a good movie, but it's not as good as any of the orignial movies (in my opinion). I think Lucas was far too hung up on showing off his effects. . . and he should have focused more on how the entire epic Star Wars saga began

respect? you called me an idiot remember?

"Jar Jar is the key to making this whole thing work". Well, Jar Jar is a rather insignificant character, in the grand scheme of things.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
You haven't read the scriptment huh?

yerssot, if I called you an idot, I was kidding. I've never verbally bashed someone at this site without putting a or after it.

And no, I havn't read the scriptment. And I shouldn't have to! It has nothing to do with anything!

In my opinion, one of the main reasons (but not the ONLY reason) that Lucas is making the new trillogy is to have a monopoly over special effects rights. His effects in The Phantom Menace were BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!! But that doesn't make a great movie.

Lucas didn't know where to draw the line while making Episode I. And because of it, he had a movie based on special effects, instead of story.

I simply do not see where you think that GL is obsessed by the money. There is SO much stuff he would do if he was only after the money- all nine episodes and the tv series, for a start.

GL is huge on special effects, but that doesn't mean he wants a 'monopoly' on them. Why are people always criticised for being succesful? GL happens to have created the best special effects outfit there is. Other people want to make use of that. What's wrong with that? Why should he be accused of 'monopolising' special effects? I'm all for the advances he makes.

To, I am not simply saying my opinion is right because it is my opinion. I am saying your opnion is WRONG because GL is NOT acting like how you say. What he is doing does not fit what yo say, he is not following a profit-obsessed model. If you disagree, please accurately point out where I am wrong because you have so far posted NOTHING that shows that. And if all you can do is go on at me for being 'inflexble' (when I ALWAYS back a settled opinion like that with facts), you are only going to go on annoying people like yerssot and Mah.

To re-state my reasons why I say that GL is NOT obsessed with money:

1. He did not allow Star Wars to go on a 100% cinema distribution. This severely restriced opening takings and the resultant publicity.
2. He point blank refuses to let things like the tv series to be made because thay would dilute his storyline. That is the action of a man who cares about his work, not a profit-obsessed hack
3. He always pursues his OWN vision of what should be in the movies. He gives them titles like 'Attack of the Clones', to the dismay of the fanboys. He refuses to shovel in characters like Chewbacca and Han Solo into the new films, even though legion are the viewers who say they should go in. Likewise, he risks the anger of a million book fans by trampling over thier storylines and creating his own. And finally, he persists in using characters like Jar-Jar even though enormous amounts have demanded their removal.

Those are the actions of someone is is determined to tell HIS story, and the opininons of others be buggered. But if he made these concessions the movies would be a LOT more popular, and he would make a lot more money.

4. No-one seems to question his motivations in the Original films, these days. Yet he faced the EXACT SAME accusations then about being driven solely by profit. He wasn't then, and lots of people said he was. Not much has changed. By the same token, we have people like Tp saysing strange things like 'he didn't care about that in the originals' when it came to breaking effects barriers, which is TOTAL NONSENSE, and the only way he has of justifying it is to say that GL is lying, and yerssot is stupid to believe him. And he calls ME inflexible... tell me, To, why DO you think he made so much effort- against complaints from EVERYONE concerned- to make the effects in the original trilogy the best ever? And tell me how you think that has changed now.

GL fights the public, the critics and even his OWN company to make sure things are done his way. I state, this is often at the expense at profit he COULD make if he was populist. He is not populist because he cares about the STORY, not the money it makes.


In any case. I am pretty sure that GL likes to turn a buck as much as the rest of us, I am sure he is trying to write a popular story that people will like- and thjerefore pay more to see, I am sure he wants more money to do more film-work in future, and I would not even argue with the idea that the new ships were designed with easy merchandising in mind at SOME point in the process (thought I am sure wasn't the dominant theme).

I just dispute the idea that GL has turned from a man who cared about his stories into a money-obsessed dollar factory.

I have only just joined this thread and so this reply might jump off on a tangent. I have said many times that the pt and the ot are part of one long film and so all six films can only be judged after seeing all of them i.e. ep3.

If GL wanted to make money i wouldn't have made ep1 twenty years after ep6, put them straight after one another and keep the sw's fans, not have the hassle of having to make new fans.

The biggest problem with sw's is the expanded universe, people expect something to happen in the films that happens in the eu and their pissed off when it doesn't happen in the films, thats not gl's fault but the fans fault, i.e. ob1 brother being lars buru, dark jedi, i haven't of these happening in the films.

I am sure we have all had ideas about how these three films would have been, but our opinions count for nothing, there is only one person who can decide what is rght for these films and you know who he is.

If you don't like how gl is going don't go and watch the films, don't complain, if it wasn't for gl there woud be no sw's, no eu and this forum would not exsist. the most important personin sw's is gl, no one else, not even you ush

Complaining is what we do best in here

i will say something that kind of irritates me. to look at it as one 6 part movie is flawed reasoning. the OT was a 3 part movie, that occurred more or less over a relatively short period of time. the characters and their relationships with eachother grew. there was continuity between the episodes. the episodes focused on luke, but also dealt ALOT with seemingly less important characters like han solo. now lets look at the prequel trilogy. by its very nature. TPM is set too far before the other movies to provide that continuity. it stands out so the movies dont flow as well. IF the OT was primarily about darth vader, thereby being "the life and times of anakin skywalker" then TPM being early would make sense. IF GL had made all three prequel movies within a couple years like with the OT, it would be alright. But as it is now, we dont have continuity. we have movies that are going to be more "stand alone" movies than part of a saga.

So there'll be a few gaps are they that crucial???

Ush, you're only proving my point about your stubberness. You said that you have your own opinion. . . then you go onto say my opinion is wrong. Are you listening to yourself?

by definition an opinion cannot be wrong. facts are right or wrong. opionions are just educated or stupid.

Anyone who thinks an opinion is stupid, can't be respected for their opinion.

A GUESS is either educated or stupid, not an opinion.

To, we are all trying to get to the result, if you keep nagging about stubberness, leave it for the pm's

Indeed, To. I even presented support for my arguments that you did not bother to try and counter.

And I did read my post, though you don't seem to have done. Your arguments are unsupported so I feel justifed in knocking down your opinion. If you don't have anything to add other than criticsm of me then don't bother posting in the thread.

Ush, don't be a poop. I have my opinions, you have yours. You then went onto say my opinion is wrong. An opinion can't be wrong.

It's no use arguing with you, because you never back down. Which I have chosen to do here.

Sure. But an opinion CAN be wrong, I'm not sure where you got the idea that it can't be from. If I am of the opinion that the world is flat, then that is wrong.

The world isn't flat? Great, there goes another one of my opinions

Mad, isn't it? queeq told me. Could be a lie, I guess...

(From Simpsons)

*Principal Skinner is tied to a post, with angry townsfolk with tourches around him*

Skinner: I'm tell you people, the Earth revovles around the sun!

Grandpa: Burn him!

just to correct, it would not be an opinion to state that the world is flat. thats an incorrect STATEMENT involving truth and falsehood. an opinion is "my favorite color is blue, i think natalie portman would look great naked in episode II, or i beleive GL has lost his touch. those are personal beleifs that have neither a right or wrong answer.

Oh for Christ sake

hey, im on your side here, TO! no one should say your opinions are wrong! especially when some of them agree with mine.

okay, it's all good then

My OPINION is that we should get back ontopic

I'm sorry, but that is complete NONSENSE! An opinion is not tied to a relative view, Scientists hold opninos all the time and many of them are wrong. Opinions CAN be wrong, I assure you. Go learn some English. Or better still go read the Oxford English Dictionary for the complete definition, where it will even tell you that an opnion can be a 'defined or formal statement on an issue of fact', which gived the lie to your weird attempt to fully seperate 'statement' and 'opninon'

Sorry, yerss, but I'm not going to let something like that go.

EVERYONE calm down!!!


Ush, I'm sorry but there are certain things in your reply that I find disturbing!
Thank you, I'm already learning English for over 4 years now, and I STILL make errors and I STILL don't know every word!
May I remind you that English is indeed a world language (number two, after Standard Manderin aka Chinese) but there are certain countries that doesn't even have English as a main language, and you don't have to look very far for that (hello it's me ). That reminds me of the remark that some people in England are monolinguist (and that broke the ice with Lara actually ) so, sorry, but I think there is no reason to react like that, this reaction was written in a moment of attack, no common sense to find here
Also, I think that the phrase with the weird attempt is very agressive and isn't something you would say

My humble OPINION though

I'm sorry, yerss, but you are being ridiculous. Someone tried to correct MY English and they were totally wrong, at which point I am entitled to rebuke them. All the other points you make are utterly irrelevant.

I wasn't even talking to you. I was saying sorry for not getting back on topic. So what is your problem?

SIgh... in retrospect, I guess none of it really matters. I suppose we should move on.

It's ok Ush, you don't have to sound so sad...we're here for you and now for the original topic.....

george lucas is an old fart whose grown whimsical in his old age and doesnt have what it takes to write these movies

Don't you think that's a bit harsh??????

I think it is, yes.

*puts away the knife*
(well, there is no reason anymore to cut the tension)

im allowed to be harsh

What makes you so special? But I suppose a little harshness is acceptible...your excused.

I bet GL smells bad too

If he's human....yes he'll probably smell at times.....but how did we get upon this topic????

because he started with it?

I see

hey! Those eyes are trademarked by me!

i doubt george lucas has bathed in 6 years

we aren't all like you

OK, I'm closing this topic.

TAKE THE PRIVATE BICKERING TO THE GDF WHERE IT BELONGS!!!!