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Do you believe that people can really be intentionally evil?

I don't. I believe that we all have cases where we see evil being justified. The most common justification is the prevention of a greater evil. For example, being tough on your kids in certain situations will benefit them in the end. Putting criminals in prison may protect society from crime and maybe even make the criminals change their ways and attitudes. Either way a greater evil (more suffering for others) is being prevented.

In my opinion, the problem sets in where you start weighing evils and have to decide which is greater. We may consider those who weigh their evils very differently from us as evil people. But they are not being evil intentionally, from their own perspective they are still preventing greater evils.

A corrupt politician may think that helping himself to some money isn't that evil because if he doesn't then somebody else will. A terrorist may not have problems with killing people because he sees himself as a freedom fighter, not a terrorist, and believes the freedom he is fighting for is more valuable than the lives of his victims.

So to sum up, I think that nobody (except maybe some mentally instable cases) is intentionally evil. It's just a question of getting the wrong or the right perspective?

Do you agree?

Ash> Define "evil", please.

how can you define the nazi reign as an error?

please, keep them out of the discussion, that will only lead to overheated discussions with members

if i were to bring out a chainsaw and chop you all up. would i be evil??

but i guess you could argue that im "mentally instable"


i wont do that though . note: top line of sig

P.S. The Nazi where an error. The big mystery over it is how Hittie got so powerful so fast. A lot of people in there didn't have the choice to do what they did. If your government forces you to go to war - the options are you go or they beat the crap out of you and put your ass in jail.

Topic - True evil from evil which is evil? Never heard of. People will do wrong for a reason. Money, satisfaction, revenge... Just as I've never met some truly good person. Everyone is good and bad at different times.

It's a question of viewpoint. A child who grows up 'evil' sees his behavior as acceptable. Nazis too, were taught that their way was right (the only way, in fact). Someone on the outside looking in will reasonably conclude that this person is 'evil', but the person on the inside will see what their doing as not only okay, but right.

As to Omega's question the Webster's Dictionary definitin of 'evil' (using the context implied by the thread) is:

a)morally reprehensible: sinful, wicked<an evil impulse>
b)arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>

humans are born evil. evil will always be evil. even if someone is nice there is still evil inside them. it just needs to be triggered. some are weaker and proceed in criminal acts. it's all about self-esteem and morality. IMO

^disagree. Humans are born morally neutral, and the experiences and guidance they receive make them sway to either good or evil. For us people who grow up decently, we still have urges to commit evil, but it is not necessarily evil in itself. The people who are god will overcome these urges, while the evil people will succumb to these urges, and eventually commit the evil acts that they're urged to do, ultimately making them evil

its good that you disagree with me. and i like what u posted by i stick with my post.

You cannot say there is evil and good, it is only a matter of perception as previously stated.
Every choice a person makes is based on previous experiences (since all judgements a preson makes are based on what he/she has already learned in life).
There are some widely accepted guidelines that denote, to some extent, what we (human kind) feel is good or bad. However, most people who do good or bad things don't do so because they are implicitly trying to alter their image, but rather because they have come to a conclusion, amounting to the fact that what they are doing is the RIGHT thing to do.
After all, if u are given the choice of hurting someone when u are very young you will most likely not know what to do, even if you are given a reason.
We experience emotions like anger,fear,love,etc ever since we are born but we only link them to prejudgements later on in life, eventually we end up 'knowing' that if someone has angered you, u must take vengeance, or if u fear someone u must kill/run/'bribe'...
It is the world that we live in that sets the standards for what good&bad mean... and as long as we live in it we will undoubtedly have to abide by these harsh and rigid guidelines.
Perhaps we should strive for a world where not everything u do is immediatly rated as having been a good or bad deed.
Hope someone makes sense of what I just said.

Hitler came to actual political power thru a group of people known as the SA, or the "Brown Shirts" led by a man named Ernst Rohm. They did the work for Hitler, killing off all his political rivals, and then were later killed off in an incident called the "Night Of The Long Knives." Nice way to reward the guys who helped put you at the top, huh? Job security.....

The greatest influence of Hitler on the people was his book, "Mein Kampf" which he wrote while spending 2 years in jail as a result of the failed 'Beer Hall Uprising" in 1929 where he tried to assassinate the Bavarian leadership himself with a small group of thugs. The rest is the usual symphony spoken to the masses-the wrong world in the right ears in large numbers:you know the drill....

As to the question of whether people can be truly and intentionally cruel and evil, I say that anyone who intentionally ruins or takes the life of another person in order to get what they want, when they want it, is a true evil-killing for religion, for land or possession of it, or to remove all obstacles or people standing in your way, is a true, self serving evil.
Murdering people to get what you want w\o regard for the consequences to them or yourself is a step in the right direction toward a carrer in evil.
Hope that makes sense.

I know that the ones who wore the black uniforms would break legs to political enemies and where basically tough cookies who came from jail. When you think of it though, it's still incredible that some frustrated midget with a gang of thugs would go up and up to finally "be" the government. Can you imagine this happening today? There are so many "levels" to pass before even being able to be big brother...
I'm gonna repeat myself but basically I don't think there is evil. Hitler wasn't evil at all - now let me explain before you get my electricity shut. Hitler did evil things but wasn't evil. His goals asked to do evil things. If I told you that I was sending you on a planet full of money, diamond, peace, music, eternal life, would that be evil? Hitler didn't care where jewish people went to - he wanted them out. Now, of course I don't warrant some psycho like that - you shoot him where it hurts the most so he can't do it no more. Anyway, what I really think is that Hitler wasn't evil he was sick.

^agree. Hitler was not evil, just an idealistic extremist.

'Good' and 'Evil' are all based on our perceptions of reality.

People aren't born evil, it's the people around them that make them evil

And Hitler's reality was about as twisted as it gets. You and Friend44 pretty much said what I was trying to say, thanks for helping me find it-while noone is truly evil, they CAN become such over time as they continue to do the things they do w\o regard for the consequences to the ones they hurt, and that is a very twisted perception of reality.

Hitler's one "best" thing he did was help Spain in 1938 when Franco orchestrated a concerted effort betw\German and Spanish loyalists to defeat the Socialists, also known as the Spanish Civil War. Sadly the Socialists would still retain power in Russia.

Btw-Friend44, the black shirt guys you spoke of were the Gestapo or the secret police of the Nazi party, just like the Russian KGB. The Ss on the other hand, were elite officers trained in everything from psychological ops to armored warfare. many armored divisions in Germany were SS. And the most infamous role of the SS went to the death camps, as guards and commandants.

enviornmental factors do effect a person behavior. also the genetic family tree of a person
if both mother and father were criminals, there is a chance that the child would be same.

Say hello to the cousins of my one friend...between all of them there isn't anything they haven't stolen, including the Blue Plate special AND the blue plate. Their parents went to jail for stealing and they were all adopted by another set of criminals....needless to say I was forbidden contact with them as a kid, and with the way many of them ended, I'm glad I listened.

interesting^

Ever see an old movie with Sean Penn and Christopher Walken called 'At Close Range"? or the one film with Robert Mitchum where
his sons and him were all criminals on the run from the law?

That's the type of family they had. Crazy shit I tell ya'.

Well...since we brouht up sin...sin in religion is anything that can benefit you basicly So making yoursef happy is kind of a sin...(sex, alcohol etc)

Im not good or evil i think its just people.

Like, i dont believe Hitler was evil..i think he had his own interest at heart, he didnt kill all those people because he was an evil bastard, he killed them off because they were in a way of what he wanted for his country. Im not saying that is right want hes done, but he was an over ambicious guy who took it too far, not necesseraly evil....if that makes sense!

we already had this discussion a few months ago

I just copied the definition verbatim, I didn't know I had to go into it further. Oh well, here goes.

The only thing I have to say is that evil is determined by the perceptions of people. What's morally reprehensible depends on what someone thinks is morally reprehensible. Same thing with sinful. What someone thinks turns the definition in all different sorts of ways.

the omega> yea im evil. but im disciplined as a child to do good and be polite etc etc. example: my neighbors. Mother and father are both intellectual and very nice. both come from good family backgrounds (that i've heard). their child is a hellraiser. i dunno maybe he was dropped on head as a child but i doubt it. its just way of life i guess.

Well, all that means is that he had a bad influence, not that he's evil

Yes, evil is in the eye of the beholder(as is everything else: beauty, intelligence, and all that good stuff)

the omega> im born evil. In my opinion we all born evil. BUT like i said in my last POST! i was discipled and taught as a child do be good.