Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

just a quick question of "what if",

What if sauron did get the ring off of Frodo, wouldnt he get defeated again? Isildur managed to defeat him with one swift move of a broken sword.

Was Saurons army back in the SA much more powerful and larger than the one of Mordor & Isengard in the third age?

i think there were more elves or soemthing and plus men were more powerfull in thoese days.

in the time of the last alliance...men and elves were far stronger than they were in the war of the ring

if sauron had gotten that ring back he would have been virtually undefeatable...because he would stay in barat-dur this time..and not risk it...barat-dur cannot be fully destroyed till the ring is gone...the ring cannot be reached until barat-dur has been destroyed

and then theres the problem of getting INTO mordor....you may kill ALOT of orcs...but more always there is more...and the black gate..HOW are you going to get through that

so sauron (if i say so myself *chuckle* was pretty undefeatable if he had gotten the ring

sorry, my question was was saurons army greater back in the SA?

Yes, I felt elves didnt put in their full grace into the Third Age war of the ring, Helms deep was awesome but only legolas chose to battle at Minas Tirith...but he was pretty much un-aware this would happen after setting from rivendell,

well there were more elves there in the book...not many mnore though

yes i believe it was...sauron HAD the ring then and was at is prime...so..yes..yes it was

When Sauron lost the ring his power and and strength was gone. So the army would have been powerless. The Army may or may not have been bigger.

what exactly are saurons ultimate powers if he has the ring?

well everything that was made with the ring would turn to his use....lorien, rivendell (not MADE but improved)....etc etc.... would be laid bare before him...shadow would fall thick and fast on M:E....he would gain phsical presence....erm...

So basically, the whole of Middle-earth would be b*ggered...

well f*cked is the word i wuld use...but sure

Lol, indeedy, but I'm a good little (hobbit) girl who never uses that f-word. I use Frodo, but not the other one

other F word what.....fredagar bolger?

In the book, the Ring could not be taken off Sauron until he had been 'killed.' So it all had to be done the hard way. I prefer the book's way and it is a crucial difference.

Sauron could lose all his forces without losing the Ring. Sauron's army was utterly defeated by the last king of Numenor, but Sauron still had the Ring and only posed as a hostage.

Oh, wait, my name begins with 'F'. Maybe I'm allowed to say that one too

The Ring constitutes most of Sauron's "native element" or his angelic power. (call it S.) I think he can still access it all when separated from the Ring, as long as the Ring is not claimed by another angel.

When he wielded the Ring, Sauron could also channel Melkor's influence (M) in the song of creation and could also dominate what was done with the great rings. Theoretically if another maiar managed to claim the Ring, they would be able to do this too.

In short, when he had the Ring, his power was S+M
The Ring's power was 'a great part' of his native element, say X, and also M. Another Maiar wielding the Ring would have the power X+M. Throughout the second age Sauron could use his angelic power S, but once the Ring was destroyed, the effect to Sauron was the same as if the Ring had been claimed by another angel, his power was reduced to S-X (very small).

and lotr has been turned into the matrix by shaber

s=m is equivelent to x/fhs;l to the power of tirteen

lol cheeky Sauron, anyhoo that was a awesome explanation by Shaber!

Right-e-o I think I have got all the facts on that, cheers, I suppose this is why Gandalf did not want to accept the ring when Frodo asked of him.

lol, lord of the rings has turned into algebra. . . i think its easily put how gandalf says it: "but if he regains the ring, his victory will be so complete that no one will see the end of it while this world lasts"

Yes! Gandalf is an angel. When he became Gandalf the White he could theoretically have claimed the Ring - but though that would have been the end of Sauron, the Ring would still have had the last laugh, Melkor's influence would be channeled anyway.

NB To CLAIM the Ring, Gandalf would have had to DEFEAT Sauron with the Ring. This would require DIRECT, one on one confrontation with Sauron. And of course, Sauron is the only one who knows how to use it fully. Sauron could snatch it back were he assailed by someone attempting to claim it.

TTFN