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As much as I liked Qui-Gonn I don't think he was needed. It would have been better if Obi-Wan was the master in TPM and he had an apprentice, maybe female. After he found Anakin he said that his apprentice didn't need him anymore. But of course the apprentice wouldn't have much time to feel dissapointed as Darth Maul would kill her.

One of the main problems I had with TPM was that Obi-Wan wasn't given enough screen time. I felt Lucas got side tracked with characters who weren't important and I hope he doesn't make the same mistake in Ep2.

King Jedi, I TOTALLY AGREE with you. In fact, by sheer coincidence, I was soon going to post the same subject.
I don't know if you know this, but in the first graph of TPM, Obi-Wan was on his own, without Qui-Gon. I don't know why Lucas added Jinn in afterwards, but I agree that Obi-Wan didn't have enough screen time and the film would have been better if he took the place of Qui-Gon as the main character on screen.

I totally disagree! While I agree that Obi-wan should have got more screen time, I think Quigon was an excellent charactor for the movie. He brought a different image of a jedi master to the movie: honorable, wise, but somewhat of a rogue. This was more interesting than the complacent, old jedi masters that we were used to seeing. I am also glad that we got to see Obi-wan as an apprentice. It makes the next two movies more interesting because we can observe how his attitude and fighting style change as he progresses in the force.

I also think QC was not needed in TPM. He was a cool character, but served no purpose. The OT made it seem like Yopa was OB1 master and that it was completly OB1 fault that Anakin became Vader, but QC was the one who found him. I think Lucas wanted Liam Nieson, so he made up the role of Qui-Gon. He just seems to confuse things in the OT that I thought as facts.

I agree. Qui-Gon wasn't mentioned at all in the OT and although, JediCapra, Qui-Gon was a good character and brought a different side of the Jedi, I still think Obi-Wan could have pulled this off by himself.
If he were about fifty years old or so and he was a Jedi Master he called be a lot like Qui-Gon was, but still have a connection with the OT. And even though that would make him be about 80 in the original trilogy, despite Alec Guiness only being around 60, it could actually show that in the Star Wars universe, because of great medical discoveries and health of people, they look a lot younger. After all, Qui-Gon was meant to be 60, yet Liam Neeson was only about 45 or so when filming TPM.

If there was no Qui-Gon I'd still want Obi-Wan to be the same age that he was in TPM. I always thought that Obi-Wan would be an over confident character and that's why he beleived he could train Anakin. With Qui-Gon there it meant Obi-Wan had to take a back seat and just did whatever Qui-Gon told him. It's not how I expected Obi-Wan to be.

Master Qui-Gon Jinn is the best! Although, he wasn't perfect and got killed off, he is my favorite Star Wars character (in the movies). I heard that Episode 2 is more about Ben Kenobi than the other characters. Cheers!

When Luke is laying in the snow, wounded, on Hoth and Obi Wan appears to tell him to go to dagobah, he says "There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi master who instructed me." Never mentions Qui-Gon, so I don't understand why George worked him in ep1. Seems pretty disrespectful on Obi-Wans part to sandbag his master like that. I'm sure there were things that Obi Wan learned directly from Yoda, but it seems logical that the bulk of his "heavy duty" training came from Qui-Gon. While he was an interesting character and was believeable as a Jedi, I think GL owes us some more explanation.

I agree with you Gundark. I don't think it's a very good excuse just that Ben says Yoda was his instructor, because he instructed him as a youngster before meeting Qui-Gon. I think it was silly introducing such an unnessecary character.

I agree with you Gundark. I don't think it's a very good excuse just that Ben says Yoda was his instructor, because he instructed him as a youngster before meeting Qui-Gon. I think it was silly introducing such an unnessecary character when he wasn't even mentioned in the OT.

KJ you are a council member as you always tell me.This belongs in Epi.IV-VI/Epi. I.

Does it really? We are talking about how Qui-Gon wasn't needed as the prequels should feature Obi-Wan as the main Jedi. I think I also said that Lucas was getting side tracked with other characters and shouldn't do this in Ep2.
Are you just a little annoyed that Raz moved your topic to GDF where it should have been in the first place?

Well seeing as Qui-Gon may return in Episode 2 or 3 (although its unlikely) this could count as being for both forums, so you might as well leave it here instead of wasting time putting it in the OT forum.

What topic of mine?Anyway Qui-Gon not needed mainly is based on Episode I.

No it isn't. If you don't like it then don't reply.

Fine I'll stop talking.

Well you two stop arguing once in a while and quit discussing what the topic belongs in. It still has some connection with Episode 2 and 3 so forget about moving it.

Back to the topic, I just realised a crutial reason why Qui-Gon does in fact have to be included in TPM. It's to do with this whole understanding of why he didn't disappear when he died and why Ben said, "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
The two are connected and we'll find out how in the next two films according to GL. If Qui-Gon hadn't been included then it may have been difficult for us to have learnt certain things about the Force, which we'll discover in the next two films. Still a lot to learn yet.

Hey I am stopping.

Well stop then! Just kidding.

I am.

Well hurry up then.

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Don't worry, I'm on drugs.

I never say that one before.

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I meant never saw that emoticon before.

riiight. sorry. Like I said, I'm on drugs so it's a little hard to work things out like that. My favourite one is still

I bet you have a hat just like that DD

If Qui-Gon wasn't there then the not dissapearing part wouldn't have to be explained as it wouldn't exist. I think Lucas just caused problems for himself by including Qui-Gon.

No I don't think he's made it difficult for himself. It gives him a chance to let us learn more of the Force. I just hope it's better than what we learnt about midichlorians in TPM.

George really threw that midi-chlorian thing at us from out of the deep blue. Then Obi-Wan reports that Anakin has a higher midi-chlorian count than Master Yoda. Ouch ! That had to hurt.

I just don't like the way the midichlorian story takes away the whole natural feeling of the Force within the saga. It makes it seem like a Jedi doesn't have the Force within them. They have it within little lifeforms that are inside them, which then gives them their power. I just don't like that.

And it makes the Jedi seem like a master race where most fans always thought anyone could use the force if trained properly.

Yes I know what you mean. It takes away the whole feeling of anyone being capable. You HAVE to have a high midichlorian count, otherwise you got no chance.

As much as I agree that Obi Wan was kind of tossed aside in the writing of TPM I feel that Qui Gonn's character opened us up to a new kind of jedi we hadn't seen before. In the OT the only link we have to the Jedi are Obi Wan and Yoda. When moving back in time to TPM it is a good oppurtunity to show more aspects of the Jedi and Lucas took advantage of that oppurtunity. He showed us another aspect of the Jedi with the relationship between master and apprentice found in obi Wan and Qui Gon. If he had used the only two Jedi we had known of(Obi Wan and Yoda) things could have gotten a little played out. Qui Gonn added a new element and excitement to the story, he acted as a new character for us to get involved in. He brought a little refreshment to the story.

Yes I guess that's a good point. That is why I want to see more Jedi Knights in Episode 2. There's supposed to be thousands of them yet we only saw 14 in TPM, only five of which spoke.

I must agree with Darth Daft in saying that Jinn was a crucial element in the film. His death and the style in which it occurred should definitely reveal somethimg to us in the future as to why Obi Wan vanished and Jinn was simply killed. Also I think that a new in depth character was needed to enrich the story. True I think Obi Wan got shafted on screen time and lines but his credit will be given in episode two and three. Jinn's character gave us a new look into the Jedi relationship of master and apprentice. A new character was needed to show this relationship. He also was needed to help show the changes ObiWan will undergo over time. Jinn in a sense helps develop Obi Wan's character to be a major part in the upcoming films.

Episode 1 is just used to introduce the main characters. That's probably why Lucas didn't think we needed to see much of Obi-Wan. He was only an apprentice and hadn't got involved with Anakin yet, so we didn't need to see much of him.

although I had similar feelings of qui gon in when the movie first came out, after a while I was glad he was added to the story....come on...a hippy jedi...how cool is that!!! Liam Neisan played him perfectly and I can't imagine anyone else fitting that role better...

also, the midichlorian thing seemded to cheapen the mystical religon feel of the force (gave it a biological/gene feel), I think GL will show how it does not matter so much how geneticaly superior you are, it's how you master it and use your mind and ethical strength...

Obi wan is probobly (arguably) the best jedi ever, but he is not the genetic chosen one...Luke is probobly not as strong as anakin, but he has a stonger will to be good and loyal. The midichlorian thing may just be added to the story to demonstrate this idea...

I don't think Obi-Wan should be considered the best jedi ever. There must have been better Jedi Knights off screen that just didn't become famous for their actions, but were still excellent knights.

that's why I said (arguably)...he is certainly in the top three...anyway...it's just to make a point of the midichlorian thing...

DNA does not make you the best...it's heart and soul baby!! (although good genes can't hurt!)

What was the difference between Qui-Gon and the older Obi-Wan? I can't see any.

Qui-Gon was more rebellious it seems, although we can't exactly tell what Obi-Wan would be like with the Council.
And I'm not sure Obi-Wan would have been so willing to let Anakin take part in the podrace just to help the Queen get to Coruscant. Qui-Gon is more of a risk-taker than Obi-Wan is and Obi-Wan also seems more knowledgable.

I think they are very similar. They both break rules and don't exactly tell the truth. Maybe Obi-Wan get's that from Qui-Gon.

Yes perhaps that was GL's intention to make them act similar.